Avatar Couples You Support (don't get your purple knickers in a twist!)

[Opal Koboi]

He and Iroh went fishing! For nine months! You can never have too much fishing

Just by looking at that sentence it occurred to me that we never saw Sokka fishing in season 2, while in season 1 he went fishing almost every other episode. The grief has actually altered his food habits.

Oh, and I'm completely for Kanna + Pakku
and Jeone-Jeong + Yugoda. 

Edit - Egads, I get to take the thread into the 400 page...

[Rango]

This isn't a response to anyone in particular, but I'd also like to add that fighting as a prelude to loving has long and well-established literary and pop-culture precedents.  Darcy and Elizabeth dislike, misunderstand, and verbally spar with one another through 2/3rds of Pride and Prejudice.  Their weapons are words, not elements, but the clashes are still there.  Ron and Hermione spatted through at least six books of Harry Potter.  Leia fought with Han in a way that she never fought with Luke.  Not every romance follows this route, but it is a common trope.

sorry didn't get to that in my last post.

exactly, they fought with WORDS. just as katara and aang do in COTL.

hermione only attacked ron physically because he had just made out with lavender when he asked her to the dance. that was huge, she felt like he cheated on her. that was the only instince she responded with violence.
as opposed to katara and zuko's fight which had no romantic or personal drive behind it. and not to mention she was protecting/helping AANG during these fights. she was thinking of him.

[killerpenguin55]

He and Iroh went fishing! For nine months! You can never have too much fishing

Just by looking at that sentence it occurred to me that we never saw Sokka fishing in season 2, while in season 1 he went fishing almost every other episode. The grief has actually altered his food habits.

Oh, and I'm completely for Kanna + Pakku
and Jeone-Jeong + Yugoda. 

Edit - Egads, I get to take the thread into the 400 page...

i think there was just less water around in the earth kingdom...

if you look at this map, all the nations are islands, except the EK. I mean, there are shores and lakes and rivers, but there is also a vast majority of just land. less areas to fish in.

[manonlechat]

But both Zuko/Katara fights have been played up as more climactic...  Katara and Zuko fight with each other, while Aang fights with a greater evil (in S 1, the Fire Nation Armada and in S 2, Azula).

That's a misrepresentation of both instances as in the first, Katara was not fighting Zuko as Aang faced off against anyone. Katara was fighting Zuko specifically in the interest of protecting a vulnerable Aang. In the second instance it wasn't Katara vs. Zuko and Aang vs. Azula it was Katara+Aang vs. Zuko+Azula. They switch off constantly in the fight and Katara fights both Zuko and Azula relatively equal amounts. Trying to set that up as a specific, particular juxtaposition of Katara vs. Zuko, and Katara vs. Zuko alone, is inaccurate.

The use of the word "while" was a poor choice on my part.  I didn't mean to imply that the Katara/Zuko fights took place at the same moments in time as the Aang/Greater Evil fights.  But in the two part finale of season one, the "big battle" for Katara was with Zuko and, later, the "big battle" for Aang was with the Fire Nation Navy. 

For the Season 2 finale, Katara and Aang do not switch off constantly.  The fight starts off Zuko/Aang and Katara/Azula, but the one-on-one only switches once: to Aang/Azula and Katara/Zuko.  Yes, Zuko teams up with Azula to knock out Katara, but that scene was very brief and was needed to knock out Katara and begin to convey to the viewers a real sense of urgency and danger to the heroes' situation. 

Zuko lowers his fist and stands down when he sees Aang rising in the Avatar state; Azula goes in for the kill.  That is the climax of the entire battle sequence, the main event, Aang and Azula.  Katara and Zuko are just watching by that point. 

[Avatar Yuffie]

Was that even a fight? Aang merging with the ocean spirit and destroying Fire Nation soldiers (running away) in his path doesn't seem like it.

[Polychrome]

I'd just like to tackle the misplaced use of the word "foreshadowing" I'm seeing quite a bit here....

Foreshadowing isn't just some random interpretation of a situation that might help your personal view of the story. (Granted, some literature teachers out there have yet to understand this...)

Foreshadowing is an intended, symbolic or literal hint left behind by the author/writer/etc that points toward a certain event happening in the future. Simply put, it is left there on purpose.

For example, Teo's dad working on a blueprint for the drill is a case of foreshadowing. Aang giving Katara a necklace as an act of affection (and returning her own) is a case of foreshadowing. Aang's discussion with Roku about the Avatar Spirit is foreshadowing.

Fights between Zuko and Katara are not foreshadowing...unless you want to argue that they'll fight some more later on. There is nothing but malice in those fights. There is no misdirected sexual tension like the fights you see in romantic comedy. (Such as *gasp* Pride and Prejudice.)

As I have said before, there *is* some of that with Aang and Katara. That is found in the Cave of Two Lovers. It is also found in the Waterbending Scroll and the Warriors of Kyoshi. That said, there isn't much of it. Why? Because by mid-season 1, Aang and Katara already see each other specifically as love interests, so most of that tension is *not* misdirected.

[Rawles]

For the Season 2 finale, Katara and Aang do not switch off constantly.  The fight starts off Zuko/Aang and Katara/Azula, but the one-on-one only switches once: to Aang/Azula and Katara/Zuko.  Yes, Zuko teams up with Azula to knock out Katara, but that scene was very brief and was needed to knock out Katara and begin to convey to the viewers a real sense of urgency and danger to the heroes' situation.

Fine they don't switch off CONSTANTLY. But they still switch off and both Aang and Katara fight Azula and Zuko equal amounts. (Also, Aang and Katara do a few moves in unison at Azula at the beginning of the fight.) Again, it's still inaccurate to try to portray it as a specific juxtaposition of Zuko vs. Katara as their "big battle."

And you know you can explain away how "brief" and necessary to the plot the instance in which Zuko teams up with Azula to knock out Katara was, but then I could just as easily say that Azula being the one to take out Aang was equally brief and necessary to the plot as clearly Zuko is not going to strike a killing blow against Aang as he needs to remain eligible for redemption. And killing the hero makes that a fairly difficult proposition. Not to mention that Azula striking down Aang being the climax of the fight does not somehow magically rewrite the actual fight and confine Zuko and Katara to some corner where they have the One-on-One Symbolic "Big Battle" Showdown of the Century.

I mean, I'm not even denying that Zuko and Katara had a specific one-on-one face off in which they represented equal and opposing forces in Siege of the North. But trying to compare that with the fight in Crossroads of Destiny is stretching. A lot. It's not a pattern or a parallel. The two instances bear little resemblence at all to each other outside of the fact that Zuko and Katara are in some way involved which means that people will clamber to find deeper, overarching meaning in it.

Which, let's face it, main characters who are combatants on opposite sides *GASP* fight each other in major episodes of the series?!?! There's nothing even remotely conspicuous or odd about that. It's certainly not anything that should lead anyone to believe that it means more than that the action-adventure show about magic karate likes to involve its main characters in big magic karate battles in climactic moments. Shocking, that.

[fireywaters]

Remember the Nickelodeon magazine comic, in which Zuko was a date with Kim Possible, that was pretty funny. No point to this, just thought it was funny.

[LiveInThaskyE]

Those crack pairings were weird but funny at the same time

[fireywaters]

I think the Nickelodeon magazine writers had the right two shows, but the wrong characters.

They should have paired up Iroh and Shego. Shego looks like and has the same sarcstic humor of Jun. I am sure Iroh would "be impressed" with Shego. I am not sure if it would be mutual, Jun didn't exactly like Iroh back.

[killerpenguin55]

whoa whoa whoa, what? i want to see said article? where can i find it?

[Polychrome]

Remember the Nickelodeon magazine comic, in which Zuko was a date with Kim Possible, that was pretty funny. No point to this, just thought it was funny.

Wha? I thought Kim Possible was Disney.

[fireywaters]

Remember the Nickelodeon magazine comic, in which Zuko was a date with Kim Possible, that was pretty funny. No point to this, just thought it was funny.

Wha? I thought Kim Possible was Disney.

A couple of months ago, Nickelodeon had a Tablod parody, and used cartoon characters from Nickelodon and other companies including Disney. They also had one with the Simpsons in another  parody.

[bico]

This isn't a response to anyone in particular, but I'd also like to add that fighting as a prelude to loving has long and well-established literary and pop-culture precedents.  Darcy and Elizabeth dislike, misunderstand, and verbally spar with one another through 2/3rds of Pride and Prejudice.  Their weapons are words, not elements, but the clashes are still there.  Ron and Hermione spatted through at least six books of Harry Potter.  Leia fought with Han in a way that she never fought with Luke.  Not every romance follows this route, but it is a common trope.

sorry didn't get to that in my last post.

exactly, they fought with WORDS. just as katara and aang do in COTL.

hermione only attacked ron physically because he had just made out with lavender when he asked her to the dance. that was huge, she felt like he cheated on her. that was the only instince she responded with violence.
as opposed to katara and zuko's fight which had no romantic or personal drive behind it. and not to mention she was protecting/helping AANG during these fights. she was thinking of him.

You're absolutely right.  People seem to forget that the classic love/hate model usually involves some hint of attraction to the other.  It needn't even be the obvious "I dislike you but you are kinda hot" thing.  Usually people involved in a love/hate relationship at least think about each other often, even if it's hateful thoughts, and have strong reactions in their vicinity, often going out of their way to insult the person.  Katara and Zuko simply don't have anything like that.  They only fight for real twice in the series, and every time they encounter each other, Zuko is only focused on getting the Avatar, and Katara is usually only focused on saving him.  So both are less concerned with each other than they are with Aang.  Not much of a basis for the love/hate argument.  As I see it, any real romance that could occur between the two would have to be long after the war was resolved and Zuko redeemed.  They would have to spend a good deal of time together and Katara and Aang's relationship would have to be resolved somehow (if they keep going as they are, there would be way too much tension between Aang and Zuko, and you can bet Katara would have as easy a time choosing between them as Tenchi does between Aeka and Ryoko... if anyone here understands the analogy...).

[Alpha]

Can I ask something?

After 400 pages, has anyone converted someone else to their respective ship?

[fireywaters]

You're absolutely right.  People seem to forget that the classic love/hate model usually involves some hint of attraction to the other.  It needn't even be the obvious "I dislike you but you are kinda hot" thing.  Usually people involved in a love/hate relationship at least think about each other often, even if it's hateful thoughts, and have strong reactions in their vicinity, often going out of their way to insult the person.  Katara and Zuko simply don't have anything like that.  They only fight for real twice in the series, and every time they encounter each other, Zuko is only focused on getting the Avatar, and Katara is usually only focused on saving him.  So both are less concerned with each other than they are with Aang.  Not much of a basis for the love/hate argument.  As I see it, any real romance that could occur between the two would have to be long after the war was resolved and Zuko redeemed.  They would have to spend a good deal of time together and Katara and Aang's relationship would have to be resolved somehow (if they keep going as they are, there would be way too much tension between Aang and Zuko, and you can bet Katara would have as easy a time choosing between them as Tenchi does between Aeka and Ryoko... if anyone here understands the analogy...).

Plus Zuko didn't seem to care or make a big deal when Jun joked at the idea of Katara being his girlfriend. If there was anything in their hearts, Zuko would have gone bulistic and yelled "She is not my girlfriend", because he is covering up subconteous feelings, like he did when the waiter referred to Jen as his girlfriends.

[PicklexDreamer]

Remember the Nickelodeon magazine comic, in which Zuko was a date with Kim Possible, that was pretty funny. No point to this, just thought it was funny.

Woah, that gave me one weird picture in my head. I could just imagine them sharing a coke at the Bueno Nacho.xD
Next thing you know it'll be Katara and Jake Long.
Again, woah. Nevermind. That image has just scarred me.
And I think KannaxPakku would be Kakku, Kaknu,Pakna, or Pakanna.

You're absolutely right.  People seem to forget that the classic love/hate model usually involves some hint of attraction to the other.  It needn't even be the obvious "I dislike you but you are kinda hot" thing.  Usually people involved in a love/hate relationship at least think about each other often, even if it's hateful thoughts, and have strong reactions in their vicinity, often going out of their way to insult the person.  Katara and Zuko simply don't have anything like that.  They only fight for real twice in the series, and every time they encounter each other, Zuko is only focused on getting the Avatar, and Katara is usually only focused on saving him.  So both are less concerned with each other than they are with Aang.  Not much of a basis for the love/hate argument.  As I see it, any real romance that could occur between the two would have to be long after the war was resolved and Zuko redeemed.  They would have to spend a good deal of time together and Katara and Aang's relationship would have to be resolved somehow (if they keep going as they are, there would be way too much tension between Aang and Zuko, and you can bet Katara would have as easy a time choosing between them as Tenchi does between Aeka and Ryoko... if anyone here understands the analogy...).

Plus Zuko didn't seem to care or make a big deal when Jun joked at the idea of Katara being his girlfriend. If there was anything in their hearts, Zuko would have gone bulistic and yelled "She is not my girlfriend", because he is covering up subconteous feelings, like he did when the waiter referred to Jen as his girlfriends.

True, People who have something to hide, such as feelings, tend to get defensive.

[fireywaters]

Remember the Nickelodeon magazine comic, in which Zuko was a date with Kim Possible, that was pretty funny. No point to this, just thought it was funny.

Woah, that gave me one weird picture in my head. I could just imagine them sharing a coke at the Bueno Nacho.xD
Next thing you know it'll be Katara and Jake Long.
Again, woah. Nevermind. That image has just scarred me.
And I think KannaxPakku would be Kakku, Kaknu,Pakna, or Pakanna.

Does any agree with me that Jun looks and has similar personality of Shego? They could be sisters. Meaning if those two worlds interacted, Iroh would find Shego attracted.

[FRozenTacoGirl]

Can I ask something?

After 400 pages, has anyone converted someone else to their respective ship?

Nope!  But now I do think Kataang a little less disgusting now.  It's actually fluffy! 

Zutara for teh win though.  I like Sokula too.

But I will forever be a Zuokka fangirl.  I've even drawn fanart!  ..Not sick stuff, though.  xD  Hugs.  JUST hugs.

[Amira Elizabeth]

How can Kataang be disgusting? 

A relationship built on friendship, devotion, love, trust, respect.  There's no warping of personalities, no twisting of circumstances, it isn't forced, it just is happening.

How exactly is that disgusting?  I just would really like to know because I've seen words like disgusting, ridiculous, stupid, gross, etc. used to describe Kataang and I can't help but wonder if we as a society are perhaps so jaded that when a relationship comes along and it is built on good things and is a healthy meshing of two people why it is described in such ways.

Now I can understand people not liking the ship for their own reasons and that's fine, but the words used to describe it lately have been kind of bothersome.

And don't take this as insulting, I'm just wondering.

[manonlechat]

*gasp*
 

*GASP*

Is it that short on oxygen around here?     Breathe deeply, both of you, or you're going to expire!

I'd just like to tackle the misplaced use of the word "foreshadowing" I'm seeing quite a bit here....

Foreshadowing isn't just some random interpretation of a situation that might help your personal view of the story. (Granted, some literature teachers out there have yet to understand this...)

Foreshadowing is an intended, symbolic or literal hint left behind by the author/writer/etc that points toward a certain event happening in the future. Simply put, it is left there on purpose.

Yes, that's how I define foreshadowing, too.

Not to mention that Azula striking down Aang being the climax of the fight does not somehow magically rewrite the actual fight and confine Zuko and Katara to some corner where they have the One-on-One Symbolic "Big Battle" Showdown of the Century.
 

I said this?  *confused* The final, "First-Letter-Capitalized" Showdown is always going to be Aang vs. The Greatest Threat.  It was in finales 1 and 2; and I suspect it will be the same in the series finale as well (Aang vs. Ozai).  Aang is the namesake and hero of the series.  Whatever romance does or does not happen takes a backseat to Aang's mission of saving the world and restoring harmony among the four elements.

See, the major difference between those examples and Zuko vs. Katara is that those people only fought verbally, and the worst casualty would probably be hurt feelings or bruised egos. Katara and Zuko were trying to kill or at best severely injure each other. There is a BIG difference.

Sorsha and Madmartigan in Willow?

People seem to forget that the classic love/hate model usually involves some hint of attraction to the other.  It needn't even be the obvious "I dislike you but you are kinda hot" thing.  Usually people involved in a love/hate relationship at least think about each other often, even if it's hateful thoughts, and have strong reactions in their vicinity, often going out of their way to insult the person.  Katara and Zuko simply don't have anything like that.  They only fight for real twice in the series, and every time they encounter each other, Zuko is only focused on getting the Avatar, and Katara is usually only focused on saving him.  So both are less concerned with each other than they are with Aang.  Not much of a basis for the love/hate argument

I concede a point to you there.  Katara and Zuko haven't displayed evidence up until CoD that they are overtly attracted to one another and/or thinking often about the other.  I maintain that the exchange of looks in the cave when Katara leaves with Aang might be the beginning of something.  And it might not.  It remains to be seen in Season Three.

There's a possibility that--this time next year-my Zutaran hopes and arguments will be proved to be dead-wrong.  (In fact, in another thread someone claiming at inside knowledge has suggested that very thing.)  I'll be very disappointed, but until then?  I enjoy these discussions.  Nothing personal.  We're arguing about the love lives of underage cartoon characters.       


*inhales peacefully; smiles* 

[PG15]

See, the major difference between those examples and Zuko vs. Katara is that those people only fought verbally, and the worst casualty would probably be hurt feelings or bruised egos. Katara and Zuko were trying to kill or at best severely injure each other. There is a BIG difference.

Sorsha and Madmartigan in Willow?

No idea; never seen/read Willow.

Oh...and there were no exchange of looks!!

[SMBH]

After 400 pages, has anyone converted someone else to their respective ship?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to think that I've contributed enough crackships (most of them new, I believe) here for people to enjoy such amusing pairings possibly more than they did before

Zhaodburns FTW!

[Toph Lover]

Xgamerkf turned me into katopher and tyzulian

[Polychrome]

Yes, that's how I define foreshadowing, too.

Then you agree that the Canon ship is Aang/Katara, since that was what the Creators have purposely left there, as well as what they've stated plain and simple.

I mean, seriously, there's no way around this.

As for the other thread, honestly...

C'mere, I have something to show you.

Yeah, Aang-Katara, that romance. Some stuff developed along the way, and we're glad some fans are more receptive to that element of the show, but it was in the DNA of the thing from the start.

If words from the creators themselves won't convince you, why some random person who claims their uncle knows somebody who knows somebody and such?

In response to those asking whether anyone's been converted or not....I gave up on that about five fandoms ago. People who get their hearts set on a ship before seeing what the "author intent" is will find a way to convince themselves of that ship in the face of any evidence.

Harry/Hermione shippers, for example, are currently trying to convince themselves that JKR is writing some crazy, ginormously complicated alchemical symbolism eventually ending up in Harry/Hermione.

I argue for fun, and I also argue for those who are sitting on the fence.