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Question: Is Azula capable of redemption and if so, will it happen?
Yes, but won't change - 63 (25%)
Yes and will do something good - 106 (42.1%)
No - 83 (32.9%)
Total Voters: 252

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Author Topic: Azula and Evil... Redemption?  (Read 360939 times)
Urmom666
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« Reply #6125 on: Dec 29, 2018 06:08 pm »

I think it depends on how much she redeems herself. If she becomes a neutral/gray character, I don’t think it would be as big of a deal. Zuko on the other hand is currently a straight up good guy and I don’t see Azula making it that far
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« Reply #6126 on: Dec 30, 2018 03:25 pm »

Sokka: Sorry, I can't give you the award. Zuko's points are still higher than yours.

Azula: WHAT THE KOH YOU PEASANT TRASH?! I literally ate babies when I was a baddie and now I buy premium diapers for homeless babies!! Zuzu was barely even bad when you first met him and now he still tries to kill Aang whenever they have a disagreement!

Sokka: True. (Probably. I don't know if anyone ever verified the baby thing.) But in this game, we don't award points for distance covered. We award points for style. And Zuko has the symbolic scar thing going. You still do your hair up the same way as when you were (allegedly) eating babies.

Azula: ********* you and your ***************ing points!! ......er, I mean, I will pray for you, stupid peasant. Now excuse me, I need to go save some babies again.
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DanChaolan
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« Reply #6127 on: Dec 31, 2018 01:37 pm »

I do think anyone can redeem themselves, but it takes time, dedication and a genuine desire for change. One of the most controversial debates regarding Star Wars films (from what I witnessed, and Anakin did put more effort redeeming himself in the Expanded Universe after Episode VI) is as to whether or not Darth Vader has redeemed himself. The man has committed twenty-years worth of atrocities, clearly willing to kill anyone that would go against Sidious's ambitions, even children. Though at the end of Episode VI...

!!!Spoilers to Star Wars Episode VI: Return of The Jedi below!!!
...Darth Vader sacrificed his life to save his son by killing Darth Sidious.
!!!Spoilers to Star Wars Episode VI: Return of The Jedi above!!!!

I know it's silly to add a spoiler warning to a Star Wars movie from the Original Trilogy, but you never know what cave dweller might come into a cafe and is just getting into Star Wars who just happens to be an Avatar fan, you don't want to ruin the surprise for the poor dude. Anyway! Some believe that was his redemption he went against the man that led him into the dark, the man that puppeteered him, but others feel it's not enough. Personally, I see it as a first step. Darth Vader's redemption was premature, it's a big first step, though if that's all he did, then yeah, he'd need to do a bit more to earn it.

There are some good points made on this thread, it would seem Azula was brainwashed at a young age to be very devoted to the Fire Nation's cause. Some posts in this thread made a good case on that. Plus, if my sources are correct. (cough) https://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Azula (cough). She's only 14. She could very well be an 8th grader. Of course, she has time and room to improve herself. (In America, that's the school grade where the average ages are 13-14 and the final grade in middle school. High school has 9th grade, which we call the Freshman year and the average ages for that are 14-15).

Let's say she did a lot of similar things as an adult and even without brainwashing she is sadistic and sociopathic. I'll put it like this: It's not impossible to redeem her, but I wouldn't blame a hero killing her either. When I watched ATLA for a second time, I didn't mind Aang not wanting to kill Ozai. My problem and concerns were being if Aang was going to try to get him on the right path? Like is he going to to take the time to talk with him in prison? If he's just going to have him fed and rot, why even bother letting him live then? You are essentially killing him in the sense he's stabilized. I watched the third viewing with friends and proposed the same idea. One of them told me that Aang would still be in the right for both not trying to kill Ozai and not making the attempt to redeem him would have to do the deep passion on just the very idea of killing as a whole is corrupt as Aang's religion of course parallels with Buddhism which puts a high sacredness in life. In addition, there will still be political followers and advocates of Ozai and killing him would cause strife and corruption in the Fire Nation. Despite this, I do think Ozai can be redeemed, but considering the atrocities he and his father have caused, he is a threat to society, I don't blame anyone wanting him dead.

If Azula or Ozai were to redeem themselves, they'd have to, as I said, have the genuine desire to change themselves, which in part would mean they would have to do good things. Whether it be funding families' funerals, help rebuild destruction they caused and just overall anyway to make peace with the kingdoms they troubled and constantly maintaining that willingness. Of course, it's complicated as that would be seen as a front to gain their trust and then go and backstab them again. So I don't feel there's a truly right answer on HOW they can maintain their trust other than never committing the atrocities again.
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Urmom666
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« Reply #6128 on: Dec 31, 2018 03:32 pm »

Ozai is a hopeless cause as far I’m concerned.
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Loopy
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« Reply #6129 on: Dec 31, 2018 03:45 pm »

I don't think Aang has any obligation to try to redeem Ozai, in order to justify letting him live. The thing is that Redemption means different things to different people and across different religions. For some, simply the acknowledgement of past evil, the desire for forgiveness, and a willingness to try to make up for the past evil are enough; note that this list does not contain any actual acts. For others, there is a measurable debt incurred by past evil that must be paid back to the victims and/or their community, sometimes with interest.

So for some, leaving Ozai to rot in prison is essentially killing him. However, he has more than enough opportunity to examine himself, attain enlightenment, and reach Nirvana, all without leaving his cell. That might be enough for Aang. Especially since for the Avatar a "long-term project" is one that spreads across multiple lives. Perhaps it's enough if Ozai dies well and then in his next life does good for the world.

Of course, all of that goes for Azula as well, except for the fact that even without her Firebending I would expect her to Ethan Hunt her way out of any prison she was put in. So perhaps she's the kind who needs to invest in works in order to find a new outlook, rather than sitting alone and meditating.
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6130 on: Jan 07, 2019 01:56 pm »

Sokka: Sorry, I can't give you the award. Zuko's points are still higher than yours.

I had a hearty laugh at this xD

But it reminded my suspicion that aesthetics plays a larger part in our moral decisions than we think. In my language we even call good behavior lijepo ponašanje which would literally translate as "beautiful behavior". We prefer consistency over inconsistency and certainty over messiness in part because we simply think one to be pretty and the other not.

Anyway, the Rabbinic sages would say that to deny a person who has sinned the opportunity to atone is a sin in itself too. It's actually a pretty cruel thing to do to make someone truly sorry for their mess and then make it impossible for them to do any further good. It is almost on the same level as inducing someone to sin. It bears to remember though that the Torah teaches that whoever steals one oxen is obliged to return not just the stolen one but give up one of their own too.

As for Azula never becoming a "genuinely" good person.

A. I believe in Aristotle's wisdom that the act of doing good deeds has the power to over time transform the heart too. The person who does something out of their goodness of their heart is happier yes but the one who does good despite themselves is virtuous too, perhaps even more so.

B. One day the most respected man of the village came to the imam and said: "I am very troubled. When I help my neighbors I feel I annoyed by them. When I give to the poor I mourn for the money. I act kind but I feel the urge to be cruel. I tell the truth but I feel like lying." The imam asked: Have you committed any wrongdoing recently? No, he replied. "Do you intend on committing anything sinful in the future?" No! "Then I don't understand where the problem lies."

I understand that this debate isn't just a dispute on character interpretation and plot prediction but a conflict between various visions on morality, and morality can be a very personal matter. I would like to address something to the pro Azula side that I found difficult myself. When you propound the view that everyone deserves compassion, even if they don't deserve it then you are obliged to show that same compassion to those who say this is not so. Forgive the other person's incapacity to forgive. 

As for sitting alone and meditating. Buddhist devotees traditionally organized themselves into monasteries. Also, meditation is a skill that like almost any skill requires ideally the guidance of someone already skillful in it, a master so to speak. Monasteries traditionally provided not only refugee but community and guidance. I'd find it interesting to read a story with her in such a setting, perhaps I'd have to write one myself.

That might actually be a good solution for Zuko too. At least in European and Byzantine politics it was common to send off political opponents to a cloister or allow them to retreat there. If there was such a thing in the Avatar world it would allow Azula to find a measure of happiness and meaning, remove her as a political threat and save Zuko from the moral taint of keeping his own sister as a prisoner.
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« Reply #6131 on: Jan 07, 2019 07:32 pm »

He could even be clever about it. He could fund a new monastery with a ridiculously generous endowment. He could provide a set of elite guards to always protect the monastery. He could ask the residents of the monastery to never enter the sub-basement, and then shut it with the most devilish lock ever devised by mankind. And he should keep absolutely no records of what's going on in the monastery, certainly nothing that describes what's in the basement.

Azula would assume a new identity, infiltrate the monastery as an initiate, and hang around pretending to meditate while she tries to break down the security system. Being Azula, she would of course be a true master of disguise and teach herself the ways and beliefs of the people in the monastery, allowing her to blend in flawlessly.

By the time she figures out that there's nothing in the basement and Zuko pulled on over on her, she'd be the Mother Superior.
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DynaDratina
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« Reply #6132 on: Feb 21, 2019 11:42 am »

I'm writing a fic about the post-war Fire Family right now, and this is a topic that really interests me, so I wanted to add my two cents to the discussion. (I'll only be analyzing her from the show canon, though.)

I've been interested in Azula's character since I was a teenager. At first I completely despised her, but after The Beach and especially Sozin's Comet, my attitude towards her changed. I found the idea fascinating that after all Azula had said and done, the real problem she faced had been one thing all along - her mother. I could relate, because at the time I had been doing a lot of introspection about myself and realizing that the sources of some of my beliefs and reactions to situations stemmed from things that happened to me long ago, things I hadn't yet let go of. I started to wonder if Azula were the exact same way.

From what I've read in this thread (which admittedly wasn't all 246 pages), it seems like most people are optimistic about her being able to become aware that she has a problem and make at least some progress in solving it. I am too, especially since as a poster earlier pointed out, she's only fourteen. She has her entire life ahead of her, and in real life you'd rarely say that someone's entire life trajectory is sealed at that age, unless it's a very serious case. I wouldn't write Azula off as that kind of case. I don't think she was prime for psychiatric treatment the minute she became socially conscious, nor do I think that her breakdown at the end of Season 3 was something that will forever shackle her to a ward after-the-fact.

I think, at the core, her problems stem from the fact that she hasn't dealt with things in her past properly and let the collection of emotional insecurities that were present in her nature grow out of control. Had they been remedied appropriately during her childhood, she would have ended up no worse than Zuko.

But they weren't. And so, the events of the show for me represent a downward spiral which we only got see the bottom of - the absolute worst manifestations of things that in fact started out smaller. Azula's surface disregard for people and willingness for violence against them stems for a deeper-rooted resentment of them, and her resentment stems from a deeper-rooted distrust for them, which in turn was derived from a resentment of the major person who broke her trust initially - a person who was supposed to love her unconditionally but didn't. (In her view, at least.)

Azula's experiences with Ursa showed her that love and trust were desirable things, but alas, that fate deemed she was not deserving of them. And Azula's stubborn and insecure nature would not have her chase something that she felt she was destined to fail at. So she's less of an emotionally-deficient narcissist who can't understand love and more like the Grinch who decides that since love won't have her, she'll show the whole world she doesn't need it.

This way of looking at her character is interesting from a storytelling perspective too, as it opens up the opportunity to examine complications in the relationships between the members of the Royal Family that made her the way she is. This way Azula (and Ozai as well) become links in a web, rather than single oddballs who were 'born vicious and that's the end of the matter'.

In childhood, I imagine Azula as one of those children who would accidentally bump into a table and hit it back in frustration. She's easily impressionable and woundable like Zuko is, and she has the same short temper and tendency to express her anger explosively as he does. She has a tendency towards cruelty as well (feeding the turtle ducks by throwing the bread at them), and I think Zuko even shared some of that, given that he found it cool enough to show Ursa.

Unlike Zuko, however, Azula isn't forgiving. And this is what makes it harder for her to deal with trauma. Throughout his banishment, Zuko clearly held out a lot of hope for Ozai's fatherly love for him coming through. But Azula was never able to forgive Ursa for her perceived wrong against her - and think about how subtle that wrong had to have been, when Ursa clearly did try to demonstrate her love for Azula. Moreover, Azula is unable to forgive herself when she lets herself be someone's victim, emotionally or physically. Her worst nightmare is for someone who hurt her to see that she is suffering because of it, or to put all her effort into attempting something only to fail pathetically.

The reason is that both of these things symbolize a failure of her willpower, and she believes her willpower is the only ally she has in a world that will otherwise crush her. Her grudge against Ursa had previously led her to disqualify all other members of her family as potential caring figures in her early childhood, gradually leaving her with the conviction that no one is on her side but herself. (I think her relationship with Ozai is a bit more complicated, but I'll set that aside for now.)

So, her way of coping with her perceived solitude is to keep all her emotions bottled up, put on a straight face, and train, train, train until she can attain anything she wants through her own independent efforts. (And as a bonus exact revenge on people who hurt her.) Her code is one of strict self-reliance, which is also a principle we saw Zuko try to abide by in Books 1 and 2. But Zuko had more incentives to reach out to people around him (namely Iroh's presence and his forgiving nature), which prevented him from mirroring Azula's downward spiral.

What could have saved Azula was an early outside trigger to make her see that she was wrong about Ursa despising her, and at the same time to teach her that it's okay to demonstrate vulnerability, whether it's showing someone you want their company or showing someone that they hurt you. This would have gradually coaxed Azula out of her introspective shell, helped her grow out of her cruel phase, and gotten her to find strength and companionship in other people. But once Azula's perception of a loving safety net was taken away from her, so were all desires to open up.

And so she resorted to her survival instincts, suppressing her human tendency to form emotional attachments to people by constantly reminding herself that they could betray her at any moment if she didn't keep them in check (leading her to be more controlling over Mai and Ty-Lee). She turned a blind eye to any displays of motherliness on Ursa's part and focused only on curtly and pragmatically getting what she wanted from her. (Like in Zuko Alone, Azula's theatrical, drawn-out tone and thinly-veiled mockery when she asked Ursa to make Zuko play with them. Then her nitpicking backtalk to Ursa when she claimed Azulon wasn't the powerful Fire Lord he used to be, which I feel was really just her way of showing Ursa that she had no authority over her. I don't think Azula would have behaved like that towards Ozai, for example.)

Of course, things were exacerbated by the fact that she was trained to be a professional firebender, and had access to dangerous, destructive toys like drills and warships, as well as the encouragement to use them. So she happily used them to let out her resentment of people and take her place at the top of a hierarchy. And she really was good at those things, so for a while she succeeded in fooling herself that she was building herself up.

But little did Azula know, she could never shut down her human faculties - namely her need for love and belonging. She was genuinely hurt by Mai and Ty-Lee's betrayal, and she was genuinely warmed and made hopeful for a moment by Ozai's declaration of his gratitude towards her. Had she really not known how important love was all along, she wouldn't have had her emotional breakdown.

Azula's last scene exemplifies the core of her state for me. She isn't a ruthless villain or an emotionless machine - she is just a hurt girl who has spent much of her life patching over her trauma for lack of ability to heal it.

This is where a psychiatrist would come in. Again, I don't think Azula is a lost cause after her breakdown. I think she can climb back up from where she's fallen, but only if the genuine root of her problem is addressed. She wants and needs love, but she's mad at the world and thus adamant about receiving it.

Once she gets past this, she can end up as normal as Zuko is, though understandably still with the quirks of her character that make her who she is. The only different is that now, those qualities will manifest themselves in healthier ways.

So, a reformed Azula would be:

1. Assertive and self-respecting.

2. Intolerant of complainers. (Everyone should be the best they can be, and if you're not where you want to be, then it's your responsibility to get yourself there.)

3. Interested in understanding people. (Despite it all, she claimed in the Boiling Rock to be a people-person, and helped deduce that a guard was telling the truth.)

4. A good sport about failed relationships in the past and willingness to reconcile. (Through all her and Zuko's conflicts, she was shown to have some care for him in "The Beach".)

5. Conscious of the importance of close friendships and family.

6. But most importantly, patient and unjudgmental of people, as she has been through hell herself.

That's what I think can be done with Azula, and I think it's the ending she truly deserves. It would show that even a person who suffers quietly suffers in a real way and deserves to get the help they need.

Of course this doesn't say anything about how the other characters will react to her redemption or whether they will forgive her, but I think the more important work is getting Azula to a better place mentally.

As for Ozai, I think it heavily depends on how you play your cards. If we take everything the show and comics give us at face-value, he's an emotionless throne-seeking warmonger who wants nothing more than to conquer the world because that's the particular magnet pulling on his metal heart. But surely he can't be that way if he's supposed to simulate a living, breathing person. He has to have emotions and attitudes towards things that are more complex than either “Perfect, according to plan” or “Obstacle, I shall destroy you”.

In fact, I feel that the show gets his complexity across better than the comics, mainly because they implied it subtly and left the rest up for the viewer to imagine. Whereas the comics dispatched nearly all of that and made him shallowly evil, which was a let-down for me.
« Last Edit: Feb 22, 2019 02:50 pm by DynaDratina » Logged

Urmom666
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« Reply #6133 on: Feb 23, 2019 12:59 am »

You make many excellent points overall, but I don’t fully agree that a reformed Azula would be particularly forgiving or really prioritize family all that much. I think she’d try to cut herself off from anything that reminded her of her childhood as much as possible. She only was understanding when it served some sort of ulterior motive. Azula strikes me as someone who would end up living out her days as a rogue who only interacts with others when absolutely necessary.

The comics were the final nail in the coffin for my headcanons about Ozai being somewhat more competent and subtle than he was in the show.

I’ve actually come across your fic before on fanfiction.net and it’s pretty solid. The psychiatrist is definitely the best of your OC’s.
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2019 03:52 pm by Urmom666 » Logged
DynaDratina
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« Reply #6134 on: Feb 24, 2019 05:46 pm »

You make many excellent points overall, but I don’t fully agree that a reformed Azula would be particularly  forgiving or really prioritize family all that much. I think she’d try to cut herself off from anything that reminded her of her childhood as much as possible. She only was understanding when it served some sort of ulterior motive. Azula strikes me as someone who would end up living out her days as a rogue who only interacts with others when absolutely necessary.

That's fair. I guess it would also depend on the particular path she takes towards healing - if her former friends or the Gaang are involved as helpers in some way, I think she would be more likely to see them as positive forces in her life and not hold a perpetual grudge against them. If not, then I can imagine her simply wanting to steer clear of emotional triggers or bad influences from the past, even if it means ending up completely alone.

But I think that in order to heal, she'd have to realize that having friends and family is a good thing in principle for a human being, even though she recognizes her case is an anomaly and that the right way forward for her might be different.

The comics were the final nail in the coffin for my headcanons about Ozai being somewhat more competent and subtle than he was in the show.

Same here. I actually found the comics to be inconsistent even with Ozai's surface portrayal in the show, which affirmed my decision to disregard them. In the show, during his last scene in the prison, he was defeated and resentful of Zuko, but then in the Promise he cracked a smirk moments later and became snide and manipulative, which was a jarring whiplash. The show implied that Ozai had an underlying resentment of Zuko that persisted after the Day of Black sun, which gives foothold for the theory that he feels complex emotions and was affected by what Zuko had done and said. It's no redemption arc, but it at least makes his character malleable enough to take places, mentally.

Thanks, I'm really glad you liked my story. I've always wondered what would happen if Azula was just sat down and made to talk everything out. xD
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2019 05:49 pm by DynaDratina » Logged

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« Reply #6135 on: Feb 25, 2019 07:14 pm »

Yeah, that scene with Ozai is emblematic of the entire run of the comics. The cartoon sets up one tone and subject of conversation, the comics advertise that we'll get to see the continuation of that scene... and then it's depicted as immediately changing topic and shifting the character dynamic with no explanation.

As for Azula, I'm an advocate for the idea of leaving the gAang out of Azula's recovery, if it happens. She's not friends with them, nor has she ever had a desire to get to know them as anything other than enemies. Likewise, they have no reason to want to help her beyond her simply being Zuko's sister. Sure, they could feel pity for how she was raised to be a living weapon, but there are so many other people in the world who have been damaged by the war who didn't (technically/clinically) murder Aang that I'd expect them to want to put their time to better use with other victims. So either Zuko would have to guilt them into helping his sister (and I'm not sure he'd go that far for her, especially since the gAang aren't even remotely the best qualified to help her) or else they'd want to be involved because they consider her a danger worth their attention. And I don't think them considering her an ongoing danger to be a good basis for friendship.

I'd rather give Azula her own friends. She doesn't have to share Zuko's.

After she recovers, she can fall in love with Sokka.
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« Reply #6136 on: Feb 26, 2019 12:22 am »

As for Azula, I'm an advocate for the idea of leaving the gAang out of Azula's recovery, if it happens. She's not friends with them, nor has she ever had a desire to get to know them as anything other than enemies. Likewise, they have no reason to want to help her beyond her simply being Zuko's sister. Sure, they could feel pity for how she was raised to be a living weapon, but there are so many other people in the world who have been damaged by the war who didn't (technically/clinically) murder Aang that I'd expect them to want to put their time to better use with other victims. So either Zuko would have to guilt them into helping his sister (and I'm not sure he'd go that far for her, especially since the gAang aren't even remotely the best qualified to help her) or else they'd want to be involved because they consider her a danger worth their attention. And I don't think them considering her an ongoing danger to be a good basis for friendship.

I'd rather give Azula her own friends. She doesn't have to share Zuko's.

After she recovers, she can fall in love with Sokka.
I liked how you crossed that out with her falling in love with Sokka. Here's what bothers me, how can Azula recover without some help from the Gang? It would be good to see her have her own friends, but since Zuko is friends with the Gang they will be some influence to an extent.
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« Reply #6137 on: Feb 26, 2019 04:02 pm »

Well, Azula is ultimately the wrongdoer when it comes to the Gaang, so it is on her to attempt to make any kind of amends with them. And this would only really involve taking responsibility for her actions and agreeing to cause no more trouble for them. This doesn’t guarantee that she’ll end up having any relationship with them afterwards.
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« Reply #6138 on: Feb 26, 2019 07:04 pm »

Yeah, can't a few of the 3 billion other people in the world help Azula? The only reason I can think of to involve the gAang is because they're the main characters.

I'm not even convinced that a healed/reformed Azula will want much to do with Zuko. Yeah, they're family, but twice now in the comics Zuko has tried to literally murder Aang over political disagreements, and they're best friends who hug, so he's obviously the kind of jerky friend most people would be better off without.
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« Reply #6139 on: Apr 01, 2019 06:41 pm »

Not an April fools joke but Aaron Ehasz revealed on twitter that he always intended for Azula to have a redemption arc in the show.
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« Reply #6140 on: Apr 02, 2019 09:28 am »

Not an April fools joke but Aaron Ehasz revealed on twitter that he always intended for Azula to have a redemption arc in the show.
Of all the possible days to make a post like that xD But this really made me happy. I remember reading a tweet from him where he approvingly re-posted a piece of fanart with Azula and Ursa hugging and said that he had had a story in mind for the two of them. I can only imagine how good an additional season with him as the writer would have been.

But I feel that AtlA ended at the right time, plot-wise. The war arc was Zuko's time for redemption rather than hers, and I think including an Azula redemption right after his would have been a bit too much, like two main courses at one meal. I just wish they had written a spinoff story of sorts after writing "The End" on the main show and focused on the loose ends. Maybe they'll do it in the Netflix adaptation, but for me it won't be quite the same xD

What I find interesting is how he said Azula hadn't yet reached rock bottom during the season finale. Presumably she had more downward progress to make, and when she finally reached her lowest point, she'd realize she was just like Zuko. (Or maybe he just meant that she'd find Zuko in the sense of a helper?)

Either way, I love how he confirmed that Zuko would be like Iroh to her. It's really sweet and it underscores Zuko's nature to be a restorer of balance.
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2019 09:31 am by DynaDratina » Logged

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« Reply #6141 on: Apr 02, 2019 10:33 am »

Not an April fools joke but Aaron Ehasz revealed on twitter that he always intended for Azula to have a redemption arc in the show.

These tweets caught my attention:

Quote
Yes I always believed there would be a 4th season.

Truthfully, there was a moment in time when we all thought we would do a 4th season of #AvatartheLastAirbender. Then along came M. Night...

Though to be clear, M Night wanted us to do a 4th season, but Mike and Bryan wanted to focus on the movie

Why would M Night have a say in that sort of thing? Looks like at one point in time he might've had more influence than I thought. Regardless, I'm glad Mike and Bryan were able to stick to their original plans and end the show with the third season.
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2019 10:37 am by Aerial » Logged

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« Reply #6142 on: Apr 02, 2019 06:15 pm »

Not an April fools joke but Aaron Ehasz revealed on twitter that he always intended for Azula to have a redemption arc in the show.
Of all the possible days to make a post like that xD But this really made me happy. I remember reading a tweet from him where he approvingly re-posted a piece of fanart with Azula and Ursa hugging and said that he had had a story in mind for the two of them. I can only imagine how good an additional season with him as the writer would have been.

But I feel that AtlA ended at the right time, plot-wise. The war arc was Zuko's time for redemption rather than hers, and I think including an Azula redemption right after his would have been a bit too much, like two main courses at one meal. I just wish they had written a spinoff story of sorts after writing "The End" on the main show and focused on the loose ends. Maybe they'll do it in the Netflix adaptation, but for me it won't be quite the same xD

What I find interesting is how he said Azula hadn't yet reached rock bottom during the season finale. Presumably she had more downward progress to make, and when she finally reached her lowest point, she'd realize she was just like Zuko. (Or maybe he just meant that she'd find Zuko in the sense of a helper?)

Either way, I love how he confirmed that Zuko would be like Iroh to her. It's really sweet and it underscores Zuko's nature to be a restorer of balance.
I want to see him make the Search first before solving the Azula arc. Dare we say it that Zuko was really the person to bring balance.
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« Reply #6143 on: Apr 02, 2019 06:43 pm »

Not an April fools joke but Aaron Ehasz revealed on twitter that he always intended for Azula to have a redemption arc in the show.

These tweets caught my attention:

Quote
Yes I always believed there would be a 4th season.

Truthfully, there was a moment in time when we all thought we would do a 4th season of #AvatartheLastAirbender. Then along came M. Night...

Though to be clear, M Night wanted us to do a 4th season, but Mike and Bryan wanted to focus on the movie

Why would M Night have a say in that sort of thing? Looks like at one point in time he might've had more influence than I thought. Regardless, I'm glad Mike and Bryan were able to stick to their original plans and end the show with the third season.

We have weirdly disparate information on the whole matter of the movie. There has to be some kind of story in it.

The matter of a fourth season, to me, is relatively uninteresting. I have no doubt that such a thing was considered, but I don't think what we got is an abbreviated version of the story. I think Book Fire was planned out after it was decided that the series would end with three seasons, and if a fourth had been made, it simply would have been an expanded version of what we already got. Probably we would have gotten more Fire Nation shenanigans, more time with Zuko integrated into the gAang, but the story would largely be the same, and the rest would be "filler."

(Note: the entire Ba Sing Se arc is "filler." It does not change the overall narrative direction of the story. We still get a Black Sun invasion. Even Zuko's little thing keeps him on the same basic trajectory, just without any backsliding. So I definitely has no problem with "filler," even when it's something like 'Tales of Ba Sing Se.')

But according to Aaron's tweets, he really was envisioning this for a fourth season set after the events that we more or less saw on in Book Fire, but how far this was taken is not specified. Nor do we know if anyone else was thinking about a fourth season when he came up with these thoughts. We know a fourth season was considered at one point, and Aaron came up with a general concept for how Azula's story could be expanded into it, but whether those happened at the same time is unknown. Likewise, whether there was a real story for the rest of the cast is unknown. We don't even know if Aaron communicated this idea to the Mike and the Bryan.

And then there's the specter of those 'movies' hanging over things. Were they ever real? Could this have been considered for one of them? (I want these things to be real and to eventually be made and to override the comics. Tongue)

Walls and secrets abound. I hope a fan finds the Mike and/or the Bryan drunk after a Comic Con and gets the full, dirty story.
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« Reply #6144 on: Apr 04, 2019 09:49 pm »

When you consider that a live-action series is coming out on Netflix it's fully possible today for season may be included... Heck, there's nothing to say they can't eventually make a fourth follow-up season at some point.
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« Reply #6145 on: Apr 05, 2019 06:17 pm »

Well, they'd need a new voice actor for Aang. I bet he has a voice like Christopher Lee by now.
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« Reply #6146 on: Apr 07, 2019 06:35 pm »

So what you’re saying is that Disney needs to buy this franchise and declare everything besides the shows non-canon?
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« Reply #6147 on: Apr 07, 2019 06:40 pm »

I want to say yes, but honestly I don't think the Marvel Star Wars comics have been substantially different from the Dark Horse ones. There's good and bad in both.

Although I'd be up for a sequel that depicts Old Man Aang achieving Nirvana and giving up his life after an even more impressive pacifist victory than the one he's already famous for.
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« Reply #6148 on: Apr 07, 2019 10:20 pm »

Well, they'd need a new voice actor for Aang. I bet he has a voice like Christopher Lee by now.
Christopher Lee's voice would be great as an Iroh or Master Pakku. Not to diminish Mako or the voice actor for Master Pakku. Christopher Lee probably loved the Avatar last airbender if it was a novel since he read a lot and know all the old movies which in the 90s he hosted for a while on TV. maybe Christopher Lee did watch it when it was airing on Tv?
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« Reply #6149 on: Apr 09, 2019 01:53 am »

Well, they'd need a new voice actor for Aang. I bet he has a voice like Christopher Lee by now.
Christopher Lee's voice would be great as an Iroh or Master Pakku. Not to diminish Mako or the voice actor for Master Pakku. Christopher Lee probably loved the Avatar last airbender if it was a novel since he read a lot and know all the old movies which in the 90s he hosted for a while on TV. maybe Christopher Lee did watch it when it was airing on Tv?

Nah. Long Feng. He’d kill it as Long Feng.

On the topic of Aaron’s tweet though, I have a couple of issues with it. I’d be down for Azula to have some sort of healing/redemption/whatever arc, but I don’t know about his take on it. Having something totally identical to Zuko might completely suck. Plus Iroh didn’t always support him; he actually withdrew support for him in Book 3 until he got his act together. Don’t get me wrong, Iroh definitely coached him at many points, but it was ultimately Zuko’s own decision to go through with it. Azula could do well with guidance, not coddling. Perhaps I’m reading it wrong, but to me Aaron seems to be saying Zuko should do just that.

Also, I actually don’t think Zuko is the right choice to fulfill the hypothetical mentor role either.


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