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Question: Is Azula capable of redemption and if so, will it happen?
Yes, but won't change - 63 (25.1%)
Yes and will do something good - 105 (41.8%)
No - 83 (33.1%)
Total Voters: 251

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Author Topic: Azula and Evil... Redemption?  (Read 332823 times)
Urmom666
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« Reply #6075 on: Jul 28, 2018 09:20 pm »

Anyway, I've been wondering and pondering. Is there any fanfic where she ends up transformed into something better through finding spirituality or religion?

I can kinda imagine her on the run from the Gaang ending up hiding in the Eastern Air Temple and meeting Guru Pathik (one of my favs from the show btw). He'd probably quickly sense the source of her anguish the way he sensed Aang's. Perhaps being free from earthly attachments and at the same time accepting her mother's and brother's love would be exactly what would set her right.

Though, I guess being redeemed by faith is not a notion all too popular in the modern world.

It all depends on where you are.
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Yougo
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« Reply #6076 on: Jul 31, 2018 05:26 am »

Anyway, I've been wondering and pondering. Is there any fanfic where she ends up transformed into something better through finding spirituality or religion?

I can kinda imagine her on the run from the Gaang ending up hiding in the Eastern Air Temple and meeting Guru Pathik (one of my favs from the show btw). He'd probably quickly sense the source of her anguish the way he sensed Aang's. Perhaps being free from earthly attachments and at the same time accepting her mother's and brother's love would be exactly what would set her right.

Though, I guess being redeemed by faith is not a notion all too popular in the modern world.

well most religions do have some form of repentence in place. She would have to go through some form of making right on her wrongs, even if it is in, or in preperation to her next life, since in the Avatarverse reincarnation is a thing.

also imo her redemption, if she gets any, should mean something to the world - the things and people she affected negatively. redeeming her by having some deity pop into existence (either personally or through a representative) and forgive her just because she pledges faith seems hollow to me.
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Loopy
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« Reply #6077 on: Jul 31, 2018 06:08 pm »

I dunno, isn't attaining redemption by becoming a Buddhist (or some flavor of Zen) kind of a cliche?

Now that we're talking about it, though, I kind of want to play with the idea. I have an unfinished AU series where Aang and Azula get married, and I'm tickled at the thought of her becoming even more spiritual than him and being insufferable about it.

"You claim to be a pacifist, but you tripped that bandit."

"Yes, well, he had been trying to stab me for a good five minutes at that point."

"So you admit you regularly compromise your supposed values?"

"No, I- you know what? Never mind. You're right, honey. You're a better pacifist that me."

"I am, but that's not the point. This is for your enrichment."

"...yes, dear."
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6078 on: Aug 01, 2018 05:32 pm »

also imo her redemption, if she gets any, should mean something to the world - the things and people she affected negatively. redeeming her by having some deity pop into existence (either personally or through a representative) and forgive her just because she pledges faith seems hollow to me.

That's not at all what it is in my understanding. To be forgiven by god you need to be seeking god first. There can be no forgiveness without repentance. Enlightenment works similarly, you need to be tired of your current state of mind first and seek something better. Also, even after coming to a grand realization and a change in the soul there remains the question "now what"?

I dunno, isn't attaining redemption by becoming a Buddhist (or some flavor of Zen) kind of a cliche?

Now that we're talking about it, though, I kind of want to play with the idea. I have an unfinished AU series where Aang and Azula get married, and I'm tickled at the thought of her becoming even more spiritual than him and being insufferable about it.

If anybody can pull it off then it has to be you. I would love to read it Cheesy especially after having already read the fic you were referring to.
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There is no refuge but in audacity. No salvation other than in strength.

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Yougo
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« Reply #6079 on: Aug 01, 2018 11:44 pm »

Well, in that case coming to faith would be the triggering event that sets her on a path to redemption, not the redeeming factor itself.

"now what" is only the title of the first chapter of that story :-)
« Last Edit: Aug 01, 2018 11:46 pm by Yougo » Logged

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Urmom666
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« Reply #6080 on: Aug 08, 2018 05:25 pm »

Well, in that case coming to faith would be the triggering event that sets her on a path to redemption, not the redeeming factor itself.

"now what" is only the title of the first chapter of that story :-)

Someone should write a Modern AU where Azula joins one of those Megachurches and just gets way too into it
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2018 03:26 am by Urmom666 » Logged
Yougo
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« Reply #6081 on: Aug 09, 2018 02:56 am »

HAH. she'd be running the place within the month, and set the entire community off into a denomination because the main branch is doing it wrong.
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Urmom666
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« Reply #6082 on: Aug 09, 2018 03:43 am »

HAH. she'd be running the place within the month, and set the entire community off into a denomination because the main branch is doing it wrong.

We have ourselves a plot bunny and a rather hilarious one at that.
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Loopy
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« Reply #6083 on: Aug 10, 2018 05:53 pm »

That would be half the story. The second half is her trying to find a way to get out of it because it's just too easy.
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6084 on: Aug 16, 2018 01:42 pm »

Something has occurred to me today and I was wondering if anyone felt the same or similar.

In retrospect, Zuko gained a great victory over Azula in The Search. How must it have felt for her to hear from the person she abused and tormented the most in her life to basically say "I love you and I forgive you". It meant that despite all that she did to him she lacked any true power over him in the end, she couldn't even force him to hate her anymore. His heart was now stronger than the force of all her past misdeeds and his soul at last utterly free from her malign grasp.
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There is no refuge but in audacity. No salvation other than in strength.

"It is better to live one hundred years in wealth than seven days in poverty." - Bob Rock
Loopy
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« Reply #6085 on: Aug 16, 2018 05:46 pm »

Well, Ozai lit Zuko's face on fire and Zuzu still gave Daddy a chance to reconcile. Azula should try to take a limb or kill his spouse or something to really make a dent.
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6086 on: Sep 20, 2018 05:12 pm »

I think the Fire Siblings make for a very interesting contrast.

Zuko's redemption was basically a battle of nature vs nurture where Zuko's inner good hearted, just and compassionate nature won out after a grueling struggle with the unjust, vile and corrupt nurture of his environment and family.

On the opposite end we have Azula, who while not entirely a monster still displayed a lot of malicious traits and behaviors since her earliest days. She fit in without much resistance. If she were to change her ways it would be a victory over her inborn bad nature. 
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There is no refuge but in audacity. No salvation other than in strength.

"It is better to live one hundred years in wealth than seven days in poverty." - Bob Rock
Loopy
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« Reply #6087 on: Sep 20, 2018 06:05 pm »

To complicated it a bit further, though, it's also in her nature to crave love and approval. And a 'redemption' is at this point the best path to that stuff. So it might a case of conflicting nature, that she needs to pick one need over the other.
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6088 on: Sep 21, 2018 12:31 pm »

Craving love and approval does not make you a good person in itself. It makes you human true but not necessarily good. It's also possible to receive it even if you aren't a good person. What if Ozai actually did genuinely love her and treat her ever so slightly better than in the finale?

Also, it is quite possible she could find a way to obtain these things without being (fully) redeemed. What if she develops a genuine friendship with her former fellow inmates or even becomes very intimate, perhaps even romantic with Zurin? Though, Zurin was the one who voiced disgruntlement. I wonder how she would react if she turned on her as well due to whatever reason. Would she brush it off or would it break her irreparably?
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There is no refuge but in audacity. No salvation other than in strength.

"It is better to live one hundred years in wealth than seven days in poverty." - Bob Rock
Urmom666
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« Reply #6089 on: Sep 21, 2018 01:56 pm »

It doesn’t make her a good person, but it most definitely separates her from that small percentage with zero humanity (I do believe such people exist).

Funny that you mention Zirin. Some people are shipping her with Azula now that TyZula has effectively been shot down for good.
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Loopy
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« Reply #6090 on: Sep 21, 2018 06:07 pm »

A desire for love and approval isn't an automatic path to goodness, no, but I was basing my post on the assumption that Azula cannot get that love/approval from Ozai anymore, and so she'll have to change to make herself lovable to people who don't light the face of kids on fire. That by itself should be a net improvement for her. Cheesy

As for her minions, there seems to be a lot fascination with them in the Azula sub-fandom, but I don't think we've been given enough about them to even begin to speculate what they're like or if they even have anything approaching a friendship with Azula. They're generic minions and one of them happens to have a name, but who knows if we'll ever see them again? For all we know, they're just following Azula because she broke them out of wherever they were and her charisma gives them a sense of purpose in serving her for the time being.
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6091 on: Sep 23, 2018 04:14 pm »

Funny that you mention Zirin. Some people are shipping her with Azula now that TyZula has effectively been shot down for good.

I know, I'm starting to like it better than TyZula myself after reading some fics that I found satisfying. The one I liked best was from Ty Lee's perspective, dealing with the sadness and jealousy of watching Azula be happy with another woman. Still uncanonical but I liked it anyway. Though, Mike and Bryan have a great fondness for ship sinking it seems. The one thing they haven't torn down yet is Kataang. If they could even break up Maiko nothing and no one is truly safe. Wouldn't be surprised if Zuko ends up with Suki or Sokka turning out to be the father of Lin.

Also, Zurin has a very long and pretty looking braid. Cheesy

A desire for love and approval isn't an automatic path to goodness, no, but I was basing my post on the assumption that Azula cannot get that love/approval from Ozai anymore, and so she'll have to change to make herself lovable to people who don't light the face of kids on fire. That by itself should be a net improvement for her. Cheesy

I consider her gleeful admission that Ozai was never part of the plan in Smoke and Shadow proof that she's realizing that he played her. Though she might be emotionally distant from him now she still agrees with his philosophy that fear is the best way to rule a nation. Though your point is good she's a devious one, perhaps she will now try find ways to convince people that she's lovable as she is. Now that she's a wanted criminal she can't use her royal authority as an argument as much as before. I do wonder why it never occurred to Zuko to contact June and her Shirshu again while looking for her but then again he's a dense one and the plot demanded it too.

As for the minions, commenting on the friendship of Ozai's angels a good friend of mine once said that no one sane would voluntarily hang out with Azula. Since that statement is irrefutable it logically follows that she found in Zurin and co the perfect circle to be friends with.

Anyway, Mai followed her out of sheer boredom. Sitting in a cell all day is the very epitome of boredom so I can imagine Zurin and co gratefully accepting the chance to escape that kind of life. They probably had no family to visit either or only a slim chance of being released.

Also, it never occurred to anyone to report to Zuko a large breakout of asylum inmates. If they were also from the same institution Azula was locked in that's either gross incompetence or someone in government circles is still sympathetic towards the disgraced princess.

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There is no refuge but in audacity. No salvation other than in strength.

"It is better to live one hundred years in wealth than seven days in poverty." - Bob Rock
Loopy
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« Reply #6092 on: Sep 24, 2018 06:11 pm »

Oh, we know for a fact that Zuko gets no news about his government in the comics. The Harmony Restoration Movement was actively happening for a full year and he somehow never knew that any of the colonies contained Fire Nation citizens who were born there.
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Urmom666
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« Reply #6093 on: Sep 25, 2018 12:28 am »

I’m gonna go with the staff of the mental institution being incompetent fools then. Though I’m sure there’s people high up that are sympathetic to the old regime and keeping Zuko in the dark about some things.

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Loopy
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« Reply #6094 on: Sep 25, 2018 05:48 pm »

Zuko only thinks he's in charge. No one has the heart to tell him that he's not.
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #6095 on: Sep 26, 2018 04:04 am »

That's why he need Azula to teach him to be more ruthless and terrifying. The courtiers and bureaucrats in the palace are probably very unimpressed by his loving and trusting ways. She might be doing the Marek Starkiller thing from Force Unleashed, gathering all rebellious elements together so that they can be destroyed in one strike.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody ever wrote a fanfiction where her bending was taken after her defeat but she later escapes anyway and starts an Equalist movement?
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There is no refuge but in audacity. No salvation other than in strength.

"It is better to live one hundred years in wealth than seven days in poverty." - Bob Rock
Yougo
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« Reply #6096 on: Sep 26, 2018 09:07 am »

That's why he need Azula to teach him to be more ruthless and terrifying. The courtiers and bureaucrats in the palace are probably very unimpressed by his loving and trusting ways. She might be doing the Marek Starkiller thing from Force Unleashed, gathering all rebellious elements together so that they can be destroyed in one strike.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody ever wrote a fanfiction where her bending was taken after her defeat but she later escapes anyway and starts an Equalist movement?

that'd be "redemption - doing it wrong". it would just add to her long list of atrocities, and replace Ozai with Zuko as the person she screams "but i did it all for you?!" at while being dragged away to prison.

/edit:
add to that the idea that when saying it to Ozai, he'd be pleased and she would mean it, while when saying it to Zuko, he'd feel rotten, and she'd partly mean it, partly be angry for him not agreeing it was a good idea, and lastly can't help but feel happy about making him feel bad (making it worth the trouble. she'll find her way out of jail again anyway).
« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2018 09:14 am by Yougo » Logged

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Urmom666
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« Reply #6097 on: Sep 26, 2018 11:26 am »

I’ve seen quite a few where she loses her bending, but never anything about her creating the equalists. Most of the time it ends in her being absolutely crushed beyond repair or living a simple life in the middle of nowhere.
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Loopy
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« Reply #6098 on: Sep 26, 2018 07:05 pm »

Or getting her Firebending back.

But that's mainly the hack authors.
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Urmom666
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« Reply #6099 on: Sep 27, 2018 12:04 pm »

I’ll tell you what I have yet to find. A fanfic that just flat out kills her off. Though to be fair, that was probably more common a few years ago. Back then (at least from my perspective), the fan base wasn’t nearly as sympathetic towards her as they are now.
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