AvatarSpirit.Net
Sep 23, 2018 06:21 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
ASN Mainsite: AvatarSpirit.net
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « previous page next page »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Plot Bunnies and Fic Ideas: Discuss!  (Read 134600 times)
Colonel_Brian
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 4013



« Reply #1950 on: Mar 03, 2016 10:09 am »

Thanks, though they aren't lovers. I was using the word relationship non romantically.  Lao Tzu is more of Yuandao's adviser/"campaign manager".

I was actually thinking that Yuandao knows he's being used to further Lao Tzu's personal project, but he becomes invested in this whole ordeal anyway because the truth about the Fire Nation royal family's involvement in his provinces's domestic situation makes it personal, so he tolerates having an obvious scam artist around.

Lao Tzu isn't really that caring of a person though. He isn't meant to be complex, just dangerous enough to shake things up. I'll also reveal that he didn't intend things to erupt into a full out civil war, but when it does, he sees it as an opportunity to rise even higher in the FN social ladder. The guy is a con man after all, he is looking out for himself.

Logged
Yougo
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3552


Respect the Screaming bird!


« Reply #1951 on: Mar 03, 2016 10:27 am »

Lol OK scratch the gay shipping then Tongue

Still, there could be that symbiotic relationship where both their independent actions influence eachothers scams in an unexpected but beneficial or even ironically nasty way, and even have some butterfly-effect on the larger scale.
Logged

keeper of: the Screaming bird's horrible shreak; The Bendig Mark.
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1952 on: Mar 04, 2016 11:12 pm »

Yougo has some good ideas, but just to throw something out-of-the-box into this box, but does Yuandao need to be a shyster specifically, or just a rogue of some kind? He can be a criminal without necessarily being savvy. He could be naive but skilled, in over his head.
Logged

Colonel_Brian
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 4013



« Reply #1953 on: Mar 04, 2016 11:27 pm »

I guess rogue is a better word. You are right that he doesn't need to be savvy. I mean, I use the fact that he's been banned from his home province due to the fact that he's incurred so many debts (implying, he's been caught ripping people off) as a way to introduce him.

I was just kind of nervous that despite having a reputation in-universe as being a scam artist, he doesn't notice the biggest one in the story. I though him being the one that takes Lao Tzu down would be a good character moment, but someone else gets the honor.

But thanks for the advise.
Logged
Freedom153
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 549


That Could Have Been Executed Better


« Reply #1954 on: Mar 04, 2016 11:40 pm »

Some real world parallels - not everyone is clever, and big players do get fooled. Take World War II, Operation Barbarossa. Stalin was absolutely devastated when he heard that Hitler was attacking him, and if I remember my history right refused to believe it at first. So one person who's "clever" getting taken by another isn't necessarily unbelievable, especially if one of them is very, very arrogant, self-confident, or possibly "a bit" crazy as well. Overthinking can sometimes lead to ignoring realistic possibilities - real people aren't always playing their A game, after all.

And, there's one incidence of scammer and scammed, things turned upside down in A:TLA already as well - Long Feng getting outmaneuvered by Azula for control of the Dai Li. But Long Feng didn't seem dumb or stupid to have fallen for some trick to me - just that he was outplayed.
Logged

Additional datapoints acquired. Additional animated stories viewed. Directive: adjust opinion... adjusting...
First eyes, a treasure. New eyes, end with a pretentious blink, own vision eclipses.
Book 5:Humanity, aka: Freedom's First Writ
AtoMaki
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 5328


ENTP


« Reply #1955 on: Mar 06, 2016 04:21 pm »

Okay, so I was thinking about my next (uhm... next-next) Kyoshi Warrior story and decided that since I always wanted to try a High School AU, the story would be a High School not!AU. In this story, the Kyoshi Warriors would infiltrate the Ba Sing Se University as exchange students in order to steal a book from the library of the establishment. They would have to spend some days with mingling though, until everything is set for the op. During this time, High School shenanigans would ensue.

Here are the seven Kyoshi Warriors from my previous fanfics:
- Suki, the brave leader we all know and love
- Okako, the motherly second-in-command
- Nirmal, the sober and level-headed healer
- Pema, the crafty temptress
- Kei, the team bully and spiritbender (she bends her own energies, turning herself super-strong, super-fast, or super-tough)
- Kitara, the comic relief and weapon specialist
- Asha, the youngest and the wildest of the group

My idea is that each of these characters will attend a different class, and each chapter will be about such a class. Examples include:
- Suki and the cooking class: she has to deal with a teacher whose confidence is only matched by her traditional views on female roles.
- Nirmal and the medicine class: her knowledge of healing vastly surpasses everyone in the class... including the teacher himself.
- Pema and the architecture class: the vamp spreads her wings over this class of geeks, resulting in a hilarious reverse-harem.
- Kei and the literature class: things quickly gets interesting when Kei gets on the wrong side of the local bully squad.
- Asha and the performance class: the class is ferociously preparing for a performance to a high-ranking noble and his family. Asha drops into the middle of this, and while she is an exceptional dancer, her classmates only have potential, but no real talent.

I don't know what to give to Okako and Kitara. Any ideas?
Logged

Keeper of Suki's firebending ancestry, the Kyoshi Warrior dojo, the love potion made from rainbows and sunsets and the mecha tanks.

My fanficions.

My Avatar RPG system.
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1956 on: Mar 06, 2016 04:41 pm »

Maybe some kind of government class for Okako?

For Kitara, I'm amused by the thought that she gets stuck with some kind of history class, but then the relics they're studying happen to be weapons that she's familiar with, and she corrects some of the historians who have completely misjudged how and when the weapons were used.
Logged

Urmom666
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #1957 on: Aug 14, 2018 07:05 pm »

So basically I have an AU idea where the fire nation is a plunged into civil war before Sozin’s comet. There’s absolute confusion among the people of the other nations and Team Avatar on what to do, as this will start after the invasion forces have already been rounded up and the Fire Nation still controls 90 percent of the planet at this point.

1.  I’m not great with thinking up names for Avatar characters so I’ll call him Bob for now. Bob is a guy in Ozai’s inner circle and is the Sage Pestage of this universe. He’s popular, he’s ambitious, and he has friends. Many friends. Nobles, generals, businessmen etc. And he, along with a good number of his friends secretly aren’t big fans of the Royal family and the cult of personality behind them. They as underlings are doing all the work, making all the weapons, and what not but no, all the love goes to a guy who sits on his big scary throne and his Royal brats. So Bob and his buddies decide that they all need to be taken out. Bob is present at the meeting before the invasion and boy does it seal the deal. The plan to eliminate the Earth Kingdom is utterly ludicrous and Ozai will destroy the economy, along with much of the special interests of Bob’s buddies. And when there’s no fire bending is the time to strike. After all, Bob is high enough in authority to at least keep the strike against the invasion force going even if the Fire Lord kicks it. And he also will only need to kill Ozai and Azula since he has the perfect guy to scapegoat. He made himself a little too obvious when he cringed in horror after hearing his father and sister’s ideas for finishing the war.

2. This is where the Dai Li comes in. I’m not convinced that all those agents were exactly OK with their own country being wiped out, but it’s not like there’s much they could do about it. Until Bob comes along. Now, keep in mind that it was common knowledge in the Fire Nation that Azula used them to conquer Ba Sing Se and that she brought some of them back with her. I doubt they’re living in her closet so I’m sure they were allowed to occasionally roam freely around the capital. Remember that gaggle of agents that Azula had with her in DOBS? Bob convinces one of them to suicide bomb her bunker by promising to keep the EK from getting wiped out. He convinces another to do the same to Ozai. It happens at the beginning of the eclipse, so right when the Gaang and Zuko are getting ready to confront Azula and Ozai respectively. Instead they narrowly miss getting blown to smithereens by massive explosions. The Gaang still fail to find Ozai’s bunker and have to flee. Zuko is chased off by Fire Nation soldiers (Bob has blamed him for everything)  and follows the Gaang as per canon. Invasion still fails and is driven off.

3. Bob is able to convince a good portion of the public that Zuko killed Ozai and that the Avatar murdered Azula during the invasion. He essentially steps up as regent with all of his cronies in his inner circle. The Dai Li become his attack dogs and the Fire Nation capital becomes an Orwellian hell hole. Ukano, meanwhile, has always despised Bob and doesn’t buy his crap for a second. He creates a faction within the fire nation to oppose him. Public opinion is divided and war breaks out. When Sozin’s comet does come, the carnage is amped up to 11.

Meanwhile Zuko still finds and joins the Gaang and deals with half of his family being killed off (though admittedly has no more abuse to deal with), Iroh still manages to escape, and the people of the other nations have no idea where they will fall into all of this.
As for the other details and how it will all play out, if someone wants this then they can fill ‘em in. And give Bob a non cringeworthy name of course.
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2018 07:07 pm by Urmom666 » Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1958 on: Aug 15, 2018 07:07 pm »

So basically I have an AU idea where the fire nation is a plunged into civil war before Sozin’s comet. There’s absolute confusion among the people of the other nations and Team Avatar on what to do, as this will start after the invasion forces have already been rounded up and the Fire Nation still controls 90 percent of the planet at this point.

1.  I’m not great with thinking up names for Avatar characters so I’ll call him Bob for now. Bob is a guy in Ozai’s inner circle and is the Sage Pestage of this universe. He’s popular, he’s ambitious, and he has friends. Many friends. Nobles, generals, businessmen etc. And he, along with a good number of his friends secretly aren’t big fans of the Royal family and the cult of personality behind them. They as underlings are doing all the work, making all the weapons, and what not but no, all the love goes to a guy who sits on his big scary throne and his Royal brats. So Bob and his buddies decide that they all need to be taken out. Bob is present at the meeting before the invasion and boy does it seal the deal. The plan to eliminate the Earth Kingdom is utterly ludicrous and Ozai will destroy the economy, along with much of the special interests of Bob’s buddies. And when there’s no fire bending is the time to strike. After all, Bob is high enough in authority to at least keep the strike against the invasion force going even if the Fire Lord kicks it. And he also will only need to kill Ozai and Azula since he has the perfect guy to scapegoat. He made himself a little too obvious when he cringed in horror after hearing his father and sister’s ideas for finishing the war.

Interesting. I'm with you so far. I can especially see this with Ozai as boss, as people are bound to be suspicious of how he was named the heir to the throne, and unimpressed with his accomplishment.


2. This is where the Dai Li comes in. I’m not convinced that all those agents were exactly OK with their own country being wiped out, but it’s not like there’s much they could do about it. Until Bob comes along. Now, keep in mind that it was common knowledge in the Fire Nation that Azula used them to conquer Ba Sing Se and that she brought some of them back with her. I doubt they’re living in her closet so I’m sure they were allowed to occasionally roam freely around the capital. Remember that gaggle of agents that Azula had with her in DOBS? Bob convinces one of them to suicide bomb her bunker by promising to keep the EK from getting wiped out. He convinces another to do the same to Ozai. It happens at the beginning of the eclipse, so right when the Gaang and Zuko are getting ready to confront Azula and Ozai respectively. Instead they narrowly miss getting blown to smithereens by massive explosions. The Gaang still fail to find Ozai’s bunker and have to flee. Zuko is chased off by Fire Nation soldiers (Bob has blamed him for everything)  and follows the Gaang as per canon. Invasion still fails and is driven off.

I'm not sure I'm fully with you, here. The Dai Li strike me as being into self-preservation, hence why they betrayed the EK to join up with Azula. I'm not sure they'd go full suicide bomber. Something like the German attempts to assassinate Hitler might be more their speed.


3. Bob is able to convince a good portion of the public that Zuko killed Ozai and that the Avatar murdered Azula during the invasion. He essentially steps up as regent with all of his cronies in his inner circle. The Dai Li become his attack dogs and the Fire Nation capital becomes an Orwellian hell hole. Ukano, meanwhile, has always despised Bob and doesn’t buy his crap for a second. He creates a faction within the fire nation to oppose him. Public opinion is divided and war breaks out. When Sozin’s comet does come, the carnage is amped up to 11.

The only thing to account for is that the cartoon puts Ukano in Omashu during the Eclipse, so there's a gap of time in which he might have executed his own 'recall' back to the Fire Nation. But yeah, he was given power by Ozai, and the comics show that he's apparently a big fan of the jerk, so I can see him making trouble here.


Meanwhile Zuko still finds and joins the Gaang and deals with half of his family being killed off (though admittedly has no more abuse to deal with), Iroh still manages to escape, and the people of the other nations have no idea where they will fall into all of this.
As for the other details and how it will all play out, if someone wants this then they can fill ‘em in. And give Bob a non cringeworthy name of course.

I can see this really messing with the gAang's plans. Once they confirm that Ozai is dead, their goals have completely changed. It's not about beating up the Fire Lord, anymore. From an out of universe perspective, they just need to somehow settle things with Zuko on the throne, but would any of them believe that they can trust Zuko if he shows up describing a situation that makes him the new Fire Lord? That could be the first thing for them to overcome. Then they need to dive into this civil war, and maybe convince Ukano to back Zuko, although Mai being brokenhearted could complicate that process.

And, personally, I think it would be keen if Azula survived the attempt on her life, and has been lying low or recovering, and making her own plans that completely mess everyone else up.

Anyway, interesting scenario!
Logged

Urmom666
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #1959 on: Aug 15, 2018 08:20 pm »

So basically I have an AU idea where the fire nation is a plunged into civil war before Sozin’s comet. There’s absolute confusion among the people of the other nations and Team Avatar on what to do, as this will start after the invasion forces have already been rounded up and the Fire Nation still controls 90 percent of the planet at this point.

1.  I’m not great with thinking up names for Avatar characters so I’ll call him Bob for now. Bob is a guy in Ozai’s inner circle and is the Sage Pestage of this universe. He’s popular, he’s ambitious, and he has friends. Many friends. Nobles, generals, businessmen etc. And he, along with a good number of his friends secretly aren’t big fans of the Royal family and the cult of personality behind them. They as underlings are doing all the work, making all the weapons, and what not but no, all the love goes to a guy who sits on his big scary throne and his Royal brats. So Bob and his buddies decide that they all need to be taken out. Bob is present at the meeting before the invasion and boy does it seal the deal. The plan to eliminate the Earth Kingdom is utterly ludicrous and Ozai will destroy the economy, along with much of the special interests of Bob’s buddies. And when there’s no fire bending is the time to strike. After all, Bob is high enough in authority to at least keep the strike against the invasion force going even if the Fire Lord kicks it. And he also will only need to kill Ozai and Azula since he has the perfect guy to scapegoat. He made himself a little too obvious when he cringed in horror after hearing his father and sister’s ideas for finishing the war.

Interesting. I'm with you so far. I can especially see this with Ozai as boss, as people are bound to be suspicious of how he was named the heir to the throne, and unimpressed with his accomplishment.


2. This is where the Dai Li comes in. I’m not convinced that all those agents were exactly OK with their own country being wiped out, but it’s not like there’s much they could do about it. Until Bob comes along. Now, keep in mind that it was common knowledge in the Fire Nation that Azula used them to conquer Ba Sing Se and that she brought some of them back with her. I doubt they’re living in her closet so I’m sure they were allowed to occasionally roam freely around the capital. Remember that gaggle of agents that Azula had with her in DOBS? Bob convinces one of them to suicide bomb her bunker by promising to keep the EK from getting wiped out. He convinces another to do the same to Ozai. It happens at the beginning of the eclipse, so right when the Gaang and Zuko are getting ready to confront Azula and Ozai respectively. Instead they narrowly miss getting blown to smithereens by massive explosions. The Gaang still fail to find Ozai’s bunker and have to flee. Zuko is chased off by Fire Nation soldiers (Bob has blamed him for everything)  and follows the Gaang as per canon. Invasion still fails and is driven off.

I'm not sure I'm fully with you, here. The Dai Li strike me as being into self-preservation, hence why they betrayed the EK to join up with Azula. I'm not sure they'd go full suicide bomber. Something like the German attempts to assassinate Hitler might be more their speed.


3. Bob is able to convince a good portion of the public that Zuko killed Ozai and that the Avatar murdered Azula during the invasion. He essentially steps up as regent with all of his cronies in his inner circle. The Dai Li become his attack dogs and the Fire Nation capital becomes an Orwellian hell hole. Ukano, meanwhile, has always despised Bob and doesn’t buy his crap for a second. He creates a faction within the fire nation to oppose him. Public opinion is divided and war breaks out. When Sozin’s comet does come, the carnage is amped up to 11.

The only thing to account for is that the cartoon puts Ukano in Omashu during the Eclipse, so there's a gap of time in which he might have executed his own 'recall' back to the Fire Nation. But yeah, he was given power by Ozai, and the comics show that he's apparently a big fan of the jerk, so I can see him making trouble here.


Meanwhile Zuko still finds and joins the Gaang and deals with half of his family being killed off (though admittedly has no more abuse to deal with), Iroh still manages to escape, and the people of the other nations have no idea where they will fall into all of this.
As for the other details and how it will all play out, if someone wants this then they can fill ‘em in. And give Bob a non cringeworthy name of course.

I can see this really messing with the gAang's plans. Once they confirm that Ozai is dead, their goals have completely changed. It's not about beating up the Fire Lord, anymore. From an out of universe perspective, they just need to somehow settle things with Zuko on the throne, but would any of them believe that they can trust Zuko if he shows up describing a situation that makes him the new Fire Lord? That could be the first thing for them to overcome. Then they need to dive into this civil war, and maybe convince Ukano to back Zuko, although Mai being brokenhearted could complicate that process.

And, personally, I think it would be keen if Azula survived the attempt on her life, and has been lying low or recovering, and making her own plans that completely mess everyone else up.

Anyway, interesting scenario!

The method for the assassinations could be modified perhaps. And yes, I sort of was leaning towards the idea of Ukano as a reluctant ally and of course where Mai falls into all this would be interesting as well.
I also had this idea of Bob also being a secret leader of this Koh worshipping death cult and intending to make that the world religion. But that wouldn’t fit well into this set up honestly.

What role would you imagine Azula taking in all of this? I’m not sure I’d have her just come in and wreck everything. Because then she becomes the true threat and that seems predictable to me. Although, with his new brainwashing army at his disposal, perhaps Bob salvages the barely living Azula’s body and basically makes her into Weapon X......

I appreciate your feedback though.
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018 08:49 pm by Urmom666 » Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1960 on: Aug 16, 2018 05:42 pm »

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't want her to come back with an army or something, and then everyone fights her. With Ozai dead, I'm not sure she'd even be rational enough to be a main threat. It would be more that she's just always in the right place at the right time to somehow make every situation worse.

I also kinda dig the Weapon X idea, if just to make use of her fighting skills to give the characters a physical threat to clash against at times, although it would be a fine line to walk to heal her from some major injury without getting too scifi.
Logged

Urmom666
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #1961 on: Aug 16, 2018 06:24 pm »

Point taken. If the Weapon X thing happens, maybe Bob would just kill Ozai and have a sort of “beat her up and gag her” deal for Azula, that way it doesn’t take a miracle for her to be useful as his muscle. Either way, Ukano and the Gaang will realize that anyone who deposed Ozai and Azula is definitely no joke. Also, how do you usually come up with names for your OC’s?  Cheesy
Logged
plushu
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3699

157% PIANDAOIST


« Reply #1962 on: Aug 17, 2018 10:57 am »

Also, how do you usually come up with names for your OC’s?  Cheesy

Since the original naming conventions for ATLA saw FN characters with mostly Chinese names, I go to something like a Chinese baby naming site or a translation site (or a Japanese site if that's your flavor).  I do this because, if I want to give a character a name based on a characteristic trait of theirs, I can punch the word/s describing them into the translator or the baby name search and get some naming options.  Say I had a character who was, well, an a****le.  I'd just type "a****le" into the field and get back something like Húndàn.  Not sure how reliable this method is, but, for most readers, they aren't really keeping track of these things tbh.  They just want them to have Asian sounding names.  For me, it just gives me ideas about what to name people so I don't have to sit around and think about it too much since I tend to get caught up on those sorts of things.

Another thing I've done is, if I had a really important character, I'd think about The Thing that they are really good at or That Thing that sets them apart from everyone else.  Let's say I have a doctor and that person is an amazing doctor.  I would look up a history on well-known Chinese doctors and pull a name from the list.  ATLA has a history of naming characters based on their defining qualities.  Ursa = the Bear (one of the fiercest protectors) and Piandao is the name of a type of Chinese sword.
Logged

Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1963 on: Aug 17, 2018 06:25 pm »

On the subject of names, I'm going to start with the caveat that Plushu is completely right. Her methods are the most efficient way to come up with good names, and most readers won't care.

That said, I have fun with this kind of thing, so I make things more complicated. Of course.

The Fire Nation has names taken from or influenced from the following cultures: Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian (the Rough Rhinos names), Indian (Mai's Aunt Mura), and even Latin (Ursa). Their architecture somtimes evokes Thai buildings, from what I've read. My general rule is to with Chinese influence for non-Benders and Japanese influence for Firebenders, unless I have a reason to make a character come from a specific region or family, in which case I might use one of the other influences to keep things interesting. This is just my own system to try to add some order to things, not what the cartoon did. If the cartoon has a system, I've not been able to deconstruct it.

For the Earth Kingdom, there's lots of Chinese influence, but Kyoshi Island is very Japanese, and Song's region is Korean. So, again, unless I have reason to put a character's origins in someplace interesting that might be influenced by other Asian cultures, I default to Chinese.

But again, I do this to create the illusion of depth in my fanfic. I doubt most readers notice it. Anyone strongly familiar with any of these cultures probably looks at how I'm evoking them and thinks I'm illiterate.
Logged

Urmom666
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #1964 on: Aug 18, 2018 09:07 pm »

I think I’ll go with the name Uragiri for Bob then. A bit cliche and blatantly obvious, but it sounds cool to me and gets the point across. I thought about what abilities he may have, but honestly I don’t think a guy like him needs to fight.
Logged
Colonel_Brian
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 4013



« Reply #1965 on: Aug 19, 2018 05:23 pm »

Good suggestions. I follow much of the same rules. Though I also have a rule where I try to stick with shorter names. In the original series, most of the names had just a few syllables and were simple, so I try to mimic that and avoid names that are long or complex.

Oh and if I borrow from other cultures that are not Asian, I choose names that could pass of as Asian to those who don't know any better. The cartoon did this with the name Ursa. It's Latin, but sounds Asian. You probably can't get away with naming a character Julius.
« Last Edit: Aug 19, 2018 07:11 pm by Colonel_Brian » Logged
heretic
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


« Reply #1966 on: Aug 19, 2018 08:08 pm »

<delurks>

Random concept.  Before the War there were more cases of dalliances between Fire Nation nobles (and commoners, but few cared that much) (same applied in the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes for that matter) and travelers from other nations than the history of Sozin & heirs wanted to admit.  In the case of highborn women, it was sometimes followed by a rapid wedding to a suitable groom or a husband well aware he has no room to complain about infidelity pointedly noting that kid #3 or 4 clearly takes after the mother's side of the family.

Things do skip generations.  So the upshot is that Mai is a closet waterbender.

She prefers steel, and put most of her efforts with purloined scrolls into getting her even less seemly talents under control... although she does teach herself how to quickly manage a well-balanced blade of ice Just In Case.  Azula has figured out she commands one of the lesser elements, and is holding that secret in reserve... but neither her parents nor Zuko know even that much.

The question is when or if this would come up.  Worst case on a personal level would be at the Boiling Rock.
« Last Edit: Aug 19, 2018 09:30 pm by heretic » Logged
plushu
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3699

157% PIANDAOIST


« Reply #1967 on: Aug 19, 2018 09:20 pm »

<delurks>

Random concept.  Before the War there were more cases of dalliances between Fire Nation nobles (and commoners, but few cared that much) (same applied in the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes for that matter) and travelers from other nations.  In the case of highborn women, it was sometimes followed by a rapid wedding to a suitable groom or a husband well aware he has no room to complain about infidelity pointedly noting that kid #3 or 4 clearly takes after the mother's side of the family.

Things do skip generations.  So the upshot is that Mai is a closet waterbender.

She prefers steel, and put most of her efforts with purloined scrolls into getting her even less seemly talents under control... although she does teach herself how to quickly manage a well-balanced blade of ice Just In Case.  Azula has figured out she commands one of the lesser elements, and is holding that secret in reserve... but neither her parents nor Zuko know even that much.

The question is when or if this would come up.  Worst case on a personal level would be at the Boiling Rock.

Hey, welcome back!

It seems like outing her at TBR would be a waste since she just threw her into jail.  Mai had already betrayed the FN by helping its enemies so no need to use that against her.  I mean, she's a waterbender = bad.  She's a traitor who attacked Azula = worse.  And since she has already betrayed the FN, then how much would she care of Azula told them she was a waterbender?

I think it would only really work of you had Azula leverage Mai's secret against Zuko after he becomes Firelord.  Mai being a waterbender becomes more of a political problem for Zuko if they're getting married than it does for Mai because no one's going to be happy about a potential waterbender inline for the throne.  Furthermore, given everything that's happened, Mai's secret can really only hurt Zuko politically since, again, Mai hiding her waterbending isn't the worst thing she's ever done to the Fire Nation.

Also, does Mai know that Azula knows her secret? That knowledge changes the entire nature of their relationship.  And how long has Azula known about this?  Furthermore, how could this backfire on Azula?  I mean, she's the one who's let Mai into her ranks, after all yet she's known this whole time that Mai's a waterbender?  It stands to reason that, if Mai's association to Zuko could hurt him, then her past association with Azula could also hurt Azula.
Logged

heretic
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


« Reply #1968 on: Aug 19, 2018 09:49 pm »


It seems like outing her at TBR would be a waste since she just threw her into jail.  Mai had already betrayed the FN by helping its enemies so no need to use that against her.  I mean, she's a waterbender = bad.  She's a traitor who attacked Azula = worse.  And since she has already betrayed the FN, then how much would she care of Azula told them she was a waterbender?
I admit I was thinking more of the visuals from her running low on ammo and tapping the lake to cover Zuko's escape... then getting tossed into the place Hama broke out of for her troubles.

An alternate thing would be during a comparatively early skirmish with Katara where Mai's hands are safely bound in ice one moment and Katara is dodging what she realizes are sharp bits of ice the next. Much shock all around between "A waterbender working for THEM?!?" and "Oh-crap-she-saw-who-else-noticed?"

I think it would only really work of you had Azula leverage Mai's secret against Zuko after he becomes Firelord.  Mai being a waterbender becomes more of a political problem for Zuko if they're getting married than it does for Mai because no one's going to be happy about a potential waterbender inline for the throne.  Furthermore, given everything that's happened, Mai's secret can really only hurt Zuko politically since, again, Mai hiding her waterbending isn't the worst thing she's ever done to the Fire Nation.
A few of Katara's disadvantages, but she still has most of Mai's advantages as a political consort.

I can see some pressure to take a concubine of *ahem* less questioned purity just to make certain there are options for heirs.

Also, does Mai know that Azula knows her secret? That knowledge changes the entire nature of their relationship.  And how long has Azula known about this?  Furthermore, how could this backfire on Azula?  I mean, she's the one who's let Mai into her ranks, after all yet she's known this whole time that Mai's a waterbender?  It stands to reason that, if Mai's association to Zuko could hurt him, then her past association with Azula could also hurt Azula.
The idea that Azula knows something is in the back of Mai's head of course, although she has been careful enough that the only thing the princess is certain of is that she is hiding bending talents (and she would have little reason to hide firebending even if she were an indifferent one).  Her apparent loyalty is not in question (such little secrets are not common but not unknown either, although the social consequences are not pleasant treason is not presumed).
Logged
plushu
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3699

157% PIANDAOIST


« Reply #1969 on: Aug 19, 2018 10:36 pm »


It seems like outing her at TBR would be a waste since she just threw her into jail.  Mai had already betrayed the FN by helping its enemies so no need to use that against her.  I mean, she's a waterbender = bad.  She's a traitor who attacked Azula = worse.  And since she has already betrayed the FN, then how much would she care of Azula told them she was a waterbender?

I admit I was thinking more of the visuals from her running low on ammo and tapping the lake to cover Zuko's escape... then getting tossed into the place Hama broke out of for her troubles.

That could work.  Where does her story go from there?


I think it would only really work of you had Azula leverage Mai's secret against Zuko after he becomes Firelord.  Mai being a waterbender becomes more of a political problem for Zuko if they're getting married than it does for Mai because no one's going to be happy about a potential waterbender inline for the throne.  Furthermore, given everything that's happened, Mai's secret can really only hurt Zuko politically since, again, Mai hiding her waterbending isn't the worst thing she's ever done to the Fire Nation.
A few of Katara's disadvantages, but she still has most of Mai's advantages as a political consort.

I can see some pressure to take a concubine of *ahem* less questioned purity just to make certain there are options for heirs.

But then the argument becomes "If you're going to sleep with who*** to ensure a firebending heir, then why marry Mai in the first place?"  I mean, the whole purpose of arranged marriages is for procreation and advancement.  And if he's just marrying her out of love, then the argument becomes "Aren't FN women good enough for you?"  If we assume the FN is xenophobic, then we have to assume they'll have problems with Zuko marrying Mai even if he's got a surrogate to ensure the bending 'purity' of his line.


Also, does Mai know that Azula knows her secret? That knowledge changes the entire nature of their relationship.  And how long has Azula known about this?  Furthermore, how could this backfire on Azula?  I mean, she's the one who's let Mai into her ranks, after all yet she's known this whole time that Mai's a waterbender?  It stands to reason that, if Mai's association to Zuko could hurt him, then her past association with Azula could also hurt Azula.

The idea that Azula knows something is in the back of Mai's head of course, although she has been careful enough that the only thing the princess is certain of is that she is hiding bending talents (and she would have little reason to hide firebending even if she were an indifferent one).  Her apparent loyalty is not in question (such little secrets are not common but not unknown either, although the social consequences are not pleasant treason is not presumed).

All I'm saying is that, after Mai commits actual treason, the secret doesn't have any punch.  What could Azula do to Mai with that knowledge that Mai didn't do to herself when she committed treason?

So, at some point, you have to out Mai before she commits treason.  After that, Azula has no power over Mai.  She could use it as a tactical political move against Zuko, but not Mai.  Hopefully, I'm making sense.

Logged

heretic
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


« Reply #1970 on: Aug 20, 2018 05:10 am »


It seems like outing her at TBR would be a waste since she just threw her into jail.  Mai had already betrayed the FN by helping its enemies so no need to use that against her.  I mean, she's a waterbender = bad.  She's a traitor who attacked Azula = worse.  And since she has already betrayed the FN, then how much would she care of Azula told them she was a waterbender?

I admit I was thinking more of the visuals from her running low on ammo and tapping the lake to cover Zuko's escape... then getting tossed into the place Hama broke out of for her troubles.

That could work.  Where does her story go from there?
The options are limited to a rescue mission on Katara's part (likely after The Southern Raiders).
 Which is why an earlier outing (possibly only before Katara) would work better for longer term plots.


I think it would only really work of you had Azula leverage Mai's secret against Zuko after he becomes Firelord.  Mai being a waterbender becomes more of a political problem for Zuko if they're getting married than it does for Mai because no one's going to be happy about a potential waterbender inline for the throne.  Furthermore, given everything that's happened, Mai's secret can really only hurt Zuko politically since, again, Mai hiding her waterbending isn't the worst thing she's ever done to the Fire Nation.
A few of Katara's disadvantages, but she still has most of Mai's advantages as a political consort.

I can see some pressure to take a concubine of *ahem* less questioned purity just to make certain there are options for heirs.

But then the argument becomes "If you're going to sleep with who*** to ensure a firebending heir, then why marry Mai in the first place?"  I mean, the whole purpose of arranged marriages is for procreation and advancement.  And if he's just marrying her out of love, then the argument becomes "Aren't FN women good enough for you?"  If we assume the FN is xenophobic, then we have to assume they'll have problems with Zuko marrying Mai even if he's got a surrogate to ensure the bending 'purity' of his line.
Mai remains a well-connected noblewoman with a lot more knowledge of the Court and Zuko's trust which is a major advantage.  Were he far less of a romantic he might regulate Mai to concubine status, but the prospective formal consorts can be more of a headache politically than a side piece whose kids he can acknowledge if his wife is unlucky in passing on her 'embarassments' to her kids


Also, does Mai know that Azula knows her secret? That knowledge changes the entire nature of their relationship.  And how long has Azula known about this?  Furthermore, how could this backfire on Azula?  I mean, she's the one who's let Mai into her ranks, after all yet she's known this whole time that Mai's a waterbender?  It stands to reason that, if Mai's association to Zuko could hurt him, then her past association with Azula could also hurt Azula.

The idea that Azula knows something is in the back of Mai's head of course, although she has been careful enough that the only thing the princess is certain of is that she is hiding bending talents (and she would have little reason to hide firebending even if she were an indifferent one).  Her apparent loyalty is not in question (such little secrets are not common but not unknown either, although the social consequences are not pleasant treason is not presumed).

All I'm saying is that, after Mai commits actual treason, the secret doesn't have any punch.  What could Azula do to Mai with that knowledge that Mai didn't do to herself when she committed treason?

So, at some point, you have to out Mai before she commits treason.  After that, Azula has no power over Mai.  She could use it as a tactical political move against Zuko, but not Mai.  Hopefully, I'm making sense.
You are, which is why I mentioned an earlier and very incomplete reveal if longer-term drama is needed.
Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1971 on: Aug 20, 2018 06:36 pm »

I'm intrigued by the idea of the reveal turning the whole Fire Nation against the prospect of Zuko marrying Mai. No one would even want her as an official concubine, but if Zuko kisses a lot of butt, maybe the nobility will be okay with Mai getting made a Household Servant- if the Royal Consort agrees, of course. I see Zuko completely objecting to that, even if Ty Lee offers to be his fake wife. The plot would be dealing with the politics of the consequences.

The other angle that intrigues me is Katara's reaction, but only after Mai is already on her side. Yeah, it could be fun to see her deal with an enemy Waterbender, but I feel like Hama already serviced that drama. But a Mai who is already an ally and yet has never really warmed up to Katara, could really send Katara into a tizzy. She'll start trying to befriend Mai and bond with her and connect over Waterbending, and Mai would just not be having with any of it, especially if she's also fighting for the chance to marry Zuko. Plus, we can't ignore Sokka in this, as he may decided that Mai is technically of his tribe, and he respects her abilities and the choice she made at the Boiling Rock, so he's hangs around to be supportive in a very practical way.

(Meanwhile, Suki's like, "Kyoshi Island was a busy port town. I'm probably related to all my friends in some distant way. Anyone care?")
Logged

heretic
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


« Reply #1972 on: Aug 20, 2018 07:04 pm »

I'm intrigued by the idea of the reveal turning the whole Fire Nation against the prospect of Zuko marrying Mai. No one would even want her as an official concubine, but if Zuko kisses a lot of butt, maybe the nobility will be okay with Mai getting made a Household Servant- if the Royal Consort agrees, of course. I see Zuko completely objecting to that, even if Ty Lee offers to be his fake wife. The plot would be dealing with the politics of the consequences.
Very much a Worse Case deal, but the difference between Just Another Non-Bender (she is not the only one with such secrets) and being 'outed' would almost certainly be a Political Problem.


The other angle that intrigues me is Katara's reaction, but only after Mai is already on her side. Yeah, it could be fun to see her deal with an enemy Waterbender, but I feel like Hama already serviced that drama.
Point of Order: Hama serviced the drama of a supposed long-lost ally/kinswoman turning out to be a dangerous/deranged foe.  This involves someone slotted into the Enemy category turning out to be an at least theoretically kidnapped and brainwashed kinswoman.

 But a Mai who is already an ally and yet has never really warmed up to Katara, could really send Katara into a tizzy. She'll start trying to befriend Mai and bond with her and connect over Waterbending, and Mai would just not be having with any of it, especially if she's also fighting for the chance to marry Zuko. Plus, we can't ignore Sokka in this, as he may decided that Mai is technically of his tribe, and he respects her abilities and the choice she made at the Boiling Rock, so he's hangs around to be supportive in a very practical way.
That said, this works too.
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2018 07:36 pm by heretic » Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31755


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1973 on: Aug 21, 2018 05:10 pm »

Point of Order: Hama serviced the drama of a supposed long-lost ally/kinswoman turning out to be a dangerous/deranged foe.  This involves someone slotted into the Enemy category turning out to be an at least theoretically kidnapped and brainwashed kinswoman.

Fair point, but the way I imagine it, the anxiety about "What is this about?" would soon transform into "I'm fighting someone I don't want to." But I suppose I'm just not that inspired by "Fight your brainwashing!" pleas; I might be traumatized from the first season of Beast Machines.
Logged

Urmom666
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #1974 on: Aug 21, 2018 09:08 pm »

Here’s a concept that’s probably been done before, but I’ve never seen it; Zuko growing up as an only child. Basically I’d have Ursa die from childbirth and Azulon ban Ozai from remarrying (for whatever reason) so there’s no chance for Zuko to have to compete with anyone and is Ozai’s only option for an heir. I really don’t think he’d be quite like Azula, but I could see him being at least slightly more brutal and powerful than he was in canon. I wonder if Iroh would have a harder time reaching him or maybe he’d still want to eventually take Ozai down but for vengeance for being kept under his thumb rather than realizing his heart was in the wrong place.
« Last Edit: Aug 21, 2018 09:18 pm by Urmom666 » Logged
Pages: « previous page next page »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines LLC
MySQL | PHP | XHTML | CSS