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Author Topic: Plot Bunnies and Fic Ideas: Discuss!  (Read 126110 times)
plushu
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« Reply #1925 on: Oct 11, 2015 12:47 am »


So here's my questions:

1.) Is it possible to have triplets that can each bend a different element?

In The Fortuneteller, we met a set of identical twins--one could earthbend, one couldn't.  You can probably get by with triplets who bend different elements.  Even if you're dealing with two parents, one who could bend earth and one who could bend fire (like Mako and Bolin's parents), they could still have bending for air or water in their ancestry.  Maybe one of their grandparents was an airbender, for example?  You could even go further back.

2.) Is it possible for the Earth Avatar to die in infancy?

Sure, why not?  The Avatar spirit could hop into a newborn and the newborn could die in a fire three weeks later or drown in a flood three hours later.  Maybe the Avatar State protects them, maybe, sometimes, it doesn't.

3. Unrelated, but could an airbender conceivably bend liquid nitrogen?\

Cause that'd be real awesome.

You got me on that one.  I have no idea...
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2015 12:52 am by plushu » Logged

AtoMaki
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« Reply #1926 on: Oct 11, 2015 05:44 am »

1.) Is it possible to have triplets that can each bend a different element?

I would say definitely! The problem is not with the lineage though, but the environment. It seems like earth/fire/air/waterbender children needs earth/fire/air/water-y environment to manifest their powers.

2.) Is it possible for the Earth Avatar to die in infancy?

I don't think so. Raava would protect the infant (preferably) with spiritual mumbo-jumbo so I think it is a no-go.

3. Unrelated, but could an airbender conceivably bend liquid nitrogen?\

Nope. Liquid-state stuff is for waterbending. Airbending can only manipulate gas-state stuff.
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« Reply #1927 on: Oct 12, 2015 06:17 pm »

3. Unrelated, but could an airbender conceivably bend liquid nitrogen?\

Nope. Liquid-state stuff is for waterbending. Airbending can only manipulate gas-state stuff.

Wrong. This is a trick question, because there are only 4-5 elements in the Avatar world, depending on how you interpret certain moments: Water, Earth, Fire, Air, and Possibly Void/Spirit.

What is this "nitrogen" of which you speak? Tongue
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« Reply #1928 on: Oct 13, 2015 04:38 am »

3. Unrelated, but could an airbender conceivably bend liquid nitrogen?\

Nope. Liquid-state stuff is for waterbending. Airbending can only manipulate gas-state stuff.

Wrong. This is a trick question, because there are only 4-5 elements in the Avatar world, depending on how you interpret certain moments: Water, Earth, Fire, Air, and Possibly Void/Spirit.

What is this "nitrogen" of which you speak? Tongue

It is a liquid, it is cold, so it must be Water! People in the Avatarverse can narrow down eighty-five jins into only two, so I guess there should be some sort of method of simplification in place relating spiritual stuff (like, it looks like water, kinda-sorta behaves like water, so it must be bendable like water)  Grin
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« Reply #1929 on: Oct 13, 2015 12:02 pm »

3. Unrelated, but could an airbender conceivably bend liquid nitrogen?\

Nope. Liquid-state stuff is for waterbending. Airbending can only manipulate gas-state stuff.

Wrong. This is a trick question, because there are only 4-5 elements in the Avatar world, depending on how you interpret certain moments: Water, Earth, Fire, Air, and Possibly Void/Spirit.

What is this "nitrogen" of which you speak? Tongue

It is a liquid, it is cold, so it must be Water! People in the Avatarverse can narrow down eighty-five jins into only two, so I guess there should be some sort of method of simplification in place relating spiritual stuff (like, it looks like water, kinda-sorta behaves like water, so it must be bendable like water)  Grin

First off, I'm really glad the triplet scenario is backed up, since that's the most integral part of my plot. I'd like more input on point two, I got two different answers and I'd think the Avatar could die in infancy. I wouldn't leave it vague either, I'd have to explain it.

As for liquid nitrogen- it's my understanding that waterbenders can bend water, ice, and fog/steam. So basically they can bend water in whatever state it is in. They can bend ink, blood, perfume, etc. only because water is a major component. However, earthbenders can bend lava becuase it's technically liquid earth. Based on the fact that nitrogen is the major component of air, you could probably make the case that liquid nitrogen is liquid air, allowing airbenders to bend it. Of course, I could be wrong
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Freedom153
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« Reply #1930 on: Oct 13, 2015 12:49 pm »

As far as airbenders go - they have never been shown to have the ability to manipulate the heat of air that they control, only their body's temperature, so they aren't a candidate for liquid nitrogen bending, even assuming they could manipulate nitrogen and no other gas present (which I'm pretty sure would be beyond even Avatar State level airbending.)

Unlike the other three "elements", water is an actual chemical compound, H2O. Given that waterbenders manipulate water, and nothing else, this both lets them do many things, and restricts them.

Nitrogen is an entirely different actual true element, N, having a melting point of -196oC, where water has a freezing/melting(they are one in the same) point of 0oC. They both might be present in biological systems in fairly large quantities, but in completely different ways - water exists within your cells and veins(probably hence healing, and definitely bloodbending), while nitrogen shows up in proteins and your DNA(if you could bend it, or carbon you'd be super overpowered).

Basically, water=/= nitrogen in every way even if they are both liquids at some point, and the show's lore doesn't support airbenders manipulating the temperature of air anyways(changing the gas's state - at which point it would no longer be "air"). Aside from curiosity, what would you be trying to do with it, exactly? Give someone nasty frostbite, or let someone freeze another person literally? This could just as easily be accomplished with an ability to supercool water far beyond its freezing point, without getting a whole other element element nitrogen involved.

Or, for airbending, give someone the ability to control how fast the air is moving, with slow molecular movement being supercooled. Problem there is, airbending seems to be of gas in general, not one specific element that's in a gaseous state. If you could airbend one specific element, you'd be rich, able to isolate and contain rare or very hard to refine gasses into a metal container, or as I said before, ludicrously overpowered.
« Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 01:01 pm by Freedom153 » Logged

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« Reply #1931 on: Oct 13, 2015 06:19 pm »

First off, I'm really glad the triplet scenario is backed up, since that's the most integral part of my plot. I'd like more input on point two, I got two different answers and I'd think the Avatar could die in infancy. I wouldn't leave it vague either, I'd have to explain it.

I side with Plushu. Raava has only taken direct action once in all of known history, and that was specifically during Vaatu's return, so I don't think she would suddenly jump out of the infant and carry it to safety or anything like that.

Besides, why would Raava act? There's always another Avatar in the cycle.

As far as the Avatar State goes, though, it's just a power boost to Bending. An infant has no muscle control, so it's not going to bend very well, and as Roku showed, nature is more than capable of overwhelming a mortal no matter how much power he has. So a flood or mudslide or forest fire would totally take an Avatar infant out. Even something like a disease would overwhelm the Avatar State, just as it nearly did with Korra.

They key is making sure that the infant dies while it's not in the Avatar State, or else the cycle will be broken. So I'd go with something like malnutrition, or SIDS, or even being dropped and killed by the blow.
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« Reply #1932 on: Oct 13, 2015 10:58 pm »

As far as airbenders go - they have never been shown to have the ability to manipulate the heat of air that they control, only their body's temperature, so they aren't a candidate for liquid nitrogen bending, even assuming they could manipulate nitrogen and no other gas present (which I'm pretty sure would be beyond even Avatar State level airbending.)

Unlike the other three "elements", water is an actual chemical compound, H2O. Given that waterbenders manipulate water, and nothing else, this both lets them do many things, and restricts them.

Nitrogen is an entirely different actual true element, N, having a melting point of -196oC, where water has a freezing/melting(they are one in the same) point of 0oC. They both might be present in biological systems in fairly large quantities, but in completely different ways - water exists within your cells and veins(probably hence healing, and definitely bloodbending), while nitrogen shows up in proteins and your DNA(if you could bend it, or carbon you'd be super overpowered).

Basically, water=/= nitrogen in every way even if they are both liquids at some point, and the show's lore doesn't support airbenders manipulating the temperature of air anyways(changing the gas's state - at which point it would no longer be "air"). Aside from curiosity, what would you be trying to do with it, exactly? Give someone nasty frostbite, or let someone freeze another person literally? This could just as easily be accomplished with an ability to supercool water far beyond its freezing point, without getting a whole other element element nitrogen involved.

Or, for airbending, give someone the ability to control how fast the air is moving, with slow molecular movement being supercooled. Problem there is, airbending seems to be of gas in general, not one specific element that's in a gaseous state. If you could airbend one specific element, you'd be rich, able to isolate and contain rare or very hard to refine gasses into a metal container, or as I said before, ludicrously overpowered.

This was super helpful, thanks! I was just thinking of a cool way to accidentally kill someone, namely an airbender resorting to bending liquid nitrogen to freeze an assailant, but not kill him. But by freezing the assailant mid-jump, the momentum carries him/her through the window and down a couple of stories to the ground below, effectively shattering them. That's not for purely graphic purposes either, as the trauma of that would carry through for the airbender.

First off, I'm really glad the triplet scenario is backed up, since that's the most integral part of my plot. I'd like more input on point two, I got two different answers and I'd think the Avatar could die in infancy. I wouldn't leave it vague either, I'd have to explain it.

I side with Plushu. Raava has only taken direct action once in all of known history, and that was specifically during Vaatu's return, so I don't think she would suddenly jump out of the infant and carry it to safety or anything like that.

Besides, why would Raava act? There's always another Avatar in the cycle.

As far as the Avatar State goes, though, it's just a power boost to Bending. An infant has no muscle control, so it's not going to bend very well, and as Roku showed, nature is more than capable of overwhelming a mortal no matter how much power he has. So a flood or mudslide or forest fire would totally take an Avatar infant out. Even something like a disease would overwhelm the Avatar State, just as it nearly did with Korra.

They key is making sure that the infant dies while it's not in the Avatar State, or else the cycle will be broken. So I'd go with something like malnutrition, or SIDS, or even being dropped and killed by the blow.

Thanks a lot! That makes a lot of sense and was sort of what I was working off of. I'm finally going to begin writing on it soon
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« Reply #1933 on: Oct 14, 2015 04:52 am »

First off, I'm really glad the triplet scenario is backed up, since that's the most integral part of my plot. I'd like more input on point two, I got two different answers and I'd think the Avatar could die in infancy. I wouldn't leave it vague either, I'd have to explain it.

I side with Plushu. Raava has only taken direct action once in all of known history, and that was specifically during Vaatu's return, so I don't think she would suddenly jump out of the infant and carry it to safety or anything like that.

I think putting Aang into a stasis for 100 years would count too. Raava (and/or Korra) would pull something similar with the infant I suppose, though knowing their success rate and the way they succeed... yeeeaahh... that baby would be totally dead or crippled for a life at the end of the day Cheesy.
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« Reply #1934 on: Oct 14, 2015 07:14 pm »

I guess it depends what you consider the Avatar State to be, but I go by Roku's information and the Voice of Legion, and so treat it as the Avatar Hive Mind. So maybe Raava's power was being invoked, but I don't consider it Raava's intervention.
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« Reply #1935 on: Oct 15, 2015 04:34 pm »

I guess it depends what you consider the Avatar State to be, but I go by Roku's information and the Voice of Legion, and so treat it as the Avatar Hive Mind. So maybe Raava's power was being invoked, but I don't consider it Raava's intervention.

it really seems like LOK set it up so that the collection of lives is different from Raava herself. Avatar State =/= Avatar Spirit.  It doesn't seem to work within A:TLA's narrative framework.  However, Korra's connection to her past lives has been severed, yet Raava is still a part of her.

@AangryAvatar, I like the ideas of a set of triplets bending different elements, and an infant Avatar's death.  It adds interest to the world.  We're only ever shown one type of Avatar: They train, they do Avatar stuff, and they die in adulthood.  Raave didn't intervene to save Roku and he either couldn't or he wouldn't invoke the Avatar State to save himself (maybe he was afraid he would die in the Avatar State?)  I think there's enough in-show evidence to support your idea that, sometimes, infant Avatars die.

Maybe Raava doesn't have that power and, if the Avatar can't even invoke the Avatar State (an infant, for example), they can't protect themselves.  Or maybe Raave just decides which lives are worth protecting and which aren't.  You could actually do a lot with this idea.
« Last Edit: Oct 16, 2015 10:11 am by plushu » Logged

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« Reply #1936 on: Dec 20, 2015 09:49 pm »

Here's my Earth Avatar story idea. I tried very hard to be different from the past two series, but there will be some similarities. The Equality theme of TLOK Book 1 is repeated, but I hope to deal with it much more maturely.

Let's start with the setting. Similarly to Aang, Korra dies a little early in her mid 60s because of the mercury poisoning. Since TLOK roughly takes place in the 20s, the Earth Avatar story will take place in the 60s-70s era, so there's hippies who like to hang out in the spirit world and technology has advanced quite a lot especially when it comes to the use of spirit vines. Somehow, a new experimental procedure has been invented that can give nonbenders bending and allow people to bend more than one element, but it has a side effect : insanity.

 Now let's move on to the characters. The Earth Avatar has a jealous and abusive nonbender mother who refuses to let her learn the elements. Because of this, she is very shy and sensitive despite being a master earthbender and metalbender. Eventually, the White Lotus arrests her mother and starts teaching the Earth Avatar the other elements. Then there's the villain, the next reincharnation of the Dark Avatar. Now you may be saying,"Uh, the Dark Avatar is dead because Unalaq was killed in the Avatar State during Harmonic Convergence and is somewhere inside Raava. Duh.". Maybe Vaatu slipped away during Korra's reincharnation. If Raava is order then Vaatu is chaos. If Raava immediately reincharnates into the next nation in the cycle then Vaatu would reincharnate at whatever time into whatever nation. If the Avatar has to learn all four elements then Vaatu would learn three or one or none. Everything is random with the Dark Avatar's cycle. Thjs version of the Dark Avatar would be a nonbender with the same spirit powers Vaatu has, so in order to gain more power, he's attempting to give himself the ability to bend all four elements by experimenting on people. The Earth Avatar starts investigating this, and eventually it leads to a confrontation. Maybe as a plot twist, the Earth Avatar's mother goes through with the procedure and goes insane.

Well, that's the setup, but I don't have the whole story done yet.

PS Has anybody else tried to make an Earth Avatar story? Tell me the good ones. Thanks in advance
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« Reply #1937 on: Dec 28, 2015 03:33 am »

^ While some goes back to status quo, much stays the same.

 Here's Book 1: Fire.

I came up with a different Earth Avatar. Like yours, it's after Korra, save that she last for a century because od medical advances, but falls between Roku's and Kyoshi's lifespan. This is set in the mid 1990's. The portals are mostly sealed off when Korra was 90, leaving only few areas more that connect to the Earth.  Aang is seen as fiction like most of bending in the United Republic, which is isolated in a Cold War with the Earth Republics.  A war analogous to World War II occurred where the URN gained more of the lands as buffer states from the Earth Kingdom, including Zaofu. Due to the Second War, the Fire Nation is as inept and weak as the Earth Kingdom was in Aang's time, therefore corruption and several factions arise. Zuko's descendants are looked on as puppets, Azula's bastard great grandson vies for power and is a popular political figure, while another force unrelated to anyone sees through the royal family and fully embraces Sozin's supremacist views in lieu of a greater Fire Nation akin to Mussolini's fascism.

Due to the Avatar being a myth and a loss of documents during the Spirit vines, the Avatars are now seen as separate gods, and the four different pantheons of Earth, Fire, Water and Air are worshipped at varying degrees. Some even, in realization of Raava, worships it as a monotheistic god that grants powers to man. They have a belief that the Avatar is the right hand of their god, and worshiped at the spirit holes in hope that Korra will rise again. Others believe the Chosen One isn't reborn at all, but that is imbued through grace by Raava's will, only taken away in death.

The Water Tribes have nothing to do with the conflict. A descendant of Sokka runs the South and in a reverse, is a dictatorship that is insular. The North meanwhile is a democratic  state that has tremendous influence over the Fire Nation of this time. Its support for Zuko's descendants paint them unfavorably.  The Earth Republic is Ba Sing Se and West to the conquered territories of the URN, with the South adhering to a monarchy based around the cult of Kyoshi. Kyoshi Empire is a non-intervention nation that has the spirit of the Earth Kingdom of the past, basically third world, but it's the stablest area aside from the United Republic or the Southern Water Union. The South keeps the Kyoshi Empire from intervening.

But everyone has spies everywhere, and they all want the Avatar for their personal gain.

There are a minority that know of the old ways, but are mostly dead or too old to do anything.


The new Avatar's like Roku. He is the grandson of Asami Sato and Mako, because in the world there are things called being separated. His father was a nonbender industrialist named in honor of Hiroshi. The facxt he was born a firebender mesmerized Mako, but when Hiroshi II's son, the Avatar, was born. The fact that he was the Avatar made the corporate magnate perfect for snatching up.

Hiroshi II leaves the company with his wife and raises the child after estranging himself from his parents after an argument. In this world, the Earth Avatar takes his middle class life and unlike Korra, he is generally a humble and quiet person, though ambitious and wanting a life than his current one. His brooding nature makes him popular with the girls, envy of the guys, and overall a popular face in the local sport team. Unlike other Avatars, he really hasn't ever bent anything or knew he could. It's not because of his parents though, especially his pro-bending mother, because they're very innatentive to his life.

This is set in Ba Sing Se. Despite the Republic reforms, the inner and outer rings are still as divided as ever, though the upper rings have picked up the fashion from the lower rings and the culture. Lake Laogai still exists as a rumor muttered only by feaerful tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. But enough of that.

A stranger shows up after school. A gruff older man that knows he is the Avatar comes up to him and points him out. Since the world beleives the Avatar has pretty much died off, combined with the decreasing role of the Avatar that they become legend. The older man tells him he is a chosen one [since the word Avatar has since went into obscurity as Korra did] to fight off the creatures from the spirit world and beyond. He dismisses him as crazy and the Avatar leaves to go to the movies with his friends after practice. Once he pulls home after the movie, his parents seemingly die from assassins who have found the Avatar's location, but the new Avatar enters the Avatar State and kills them without a single thought, not really knowing who they are. He goes on the run, blamed for his parents' death by the news, which leaks his connection to the Sato Corporation. Asami tries throwing herself into finding her grandchild, but Mako goes in her stead, memories of the old Avatar, his friend, flooding his mind. His friends thinks he's crazy, but his sudden bending prowess amazes them. No one has seen bending in close to a generation due to a shortage of bender capable people after the Second War. But the reveal of the new Avatar is pretty much nothing for a while. The old man that finds him is none other than the gangster that lived on the streets Skoochy. He claims to be White Lotus, but the Avatar and his friends don't buy that. After saving the Avatar, he is floored that the Avatar doesn't know earthbending, but begins training him.  The Avatar's recklessness and emphasis on looking cool "like those bending movers done by Bolin Li" grinds against the orthodoxy that is Skoochy.The Avatar's resemblance to Mako didn't faze him as he suffers from memory loss due to age, but he gets suspicious from flickers anyways.

Skoochy is the amoral geezer who plans on using the Avatar for his own selfish gains, and functions as a protective father figure over the span of his training. He isn't nearly as fit as Toza, and not much of a looker in terms of toughness. But when he faces the Red Lotus down , who thinks he really is White Lotus, he takes it seriously. Avatar finds out the old man's been using him and they separate. He shrugs off Skoochy and goes back to his friends" claiming temporary insanity." Disheartened by this, he bitterly goes back to his older ways, only for him to become a victim of a Lotus agent. Barely escaping with his life, Mako and him bump into each other. Neither of them recgonize each other, though Skoochy is thinknig he might know him.

Mako confronts his grandchild and due to his recklessness, the Avatar wounds his grandfather, and he collapses to the ground. Mako's assistant, the daughter of Varrick, tries to block the fight. But Mako was stabbed by one of the earth shards, and by his own hands, the Avatar swears off bending entirely. Mako, despite trying to brighten up his recently met grandson, only makes him feel depressed. At night, the Avatar floats a metal dagger towards the ceiling, intending on stabbing it through his heart at a fast speed. But as soon as the Avatar tries to inituate the suicide, the daghger doesn't move. Skoochy is standing outside, and rips the metal out of the hand. The Avatar looks outside and sees no one there.

The following day, its found that the criminal Skoochy was found dead by a gang retaliation. As Mako asks hisgrandson about his training, it only brings back memories of his past on the streets in Republic City and tears go down his eyes. Due to this realization, the Avatar takes his role more seriously and with some older earthbenders, begins to bend even more. Meanwhile, Jianxi spirits attack the school. The Avatar turns the gym into rubble, is expelled, and again back on the run out of the rings. Since the Dai Li are useless, inept since most are retired or too old to do the job. 

His grandmother meets them at the mansion in Gaoling , the new headquarters of SatoCorp for reasons, and tries to recruit as many people to train the Avatar. An airbender spy tries to infiltrate the new Team Avatar to take the Avatar back in the United Republic to give them power. He is the son of Meelo, the esteemed and most dangerous of them all. The Air Nations, each with their own philosophy of airbending including the rogue North controlled by descendants of Zaheer, are warring for influence and domination over the others. One is Shaolin and, the other Capoeira styled fighting derived from Kai's and Jinora's leadership, and the other is based on Dim Mak, from an intermixing of Equalists , deserting Kyoshi Warriors into the ranks of the Southern Air Temple. Ikki led the South until her death. They are several sects, but all claim equal divine rulership from the sacred line of the Avatar known as Aang. Those who have sworn off the conflict gathered in the Si Wong desert and adopted the lifestyle with their own, commonly hired as assassins and hired hands for their diligent work.

At the end of the season, they escape towards the DMZ between the URN and the Earth Republic, land that is ruthlessly monitored by State-trained airbenders and a deadly lemur force that has evolved to be more vicious at command like a pit bull. It is for this reason that that line is called the Meelo Pass. The United Republic is like the Cold War United States. There are no benders inside the walls, a society that has followed the legacy of Amon to the letter. They instead have firearms, known as "nickel blasts" that break through a person's skull before the bender can react. Even the Avatar before him could barely do it, so he treads fearfully through the zone.
« Last Edit: Dec 28, 2015 03:37 am by ByStorm » Logged

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« Reply #1938 on: Dec 29, 2015 05:31 am »

PS Has anybody else tried to make an Earth Avatar story? Tell me the good ones. Thanks in advance

I don't think there are a lot, and I couldn't find very many, but...

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When the fate of the world rests upon the shoulders of one person, best to hope that it isn't a blind, chi-crippled child...

It's a toph-is-the-avatar story. I don't know how much it will help you, but it's a good read anyway.

I found a bunch of earth kingdom fanfictions that I haven't read but may be worth checking out:
The Earth Kingdom's Avatar
Avatar Aisha: a new generation

Also it may be worth your while checking out this thread to look at different theories of the earth avatar's world.

(-also, first post :¬) )
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« Reply #1939 on: Jan 16, 2016 07:57 pm »

Ok, so technically I already posted chapter 1 but tell me what you think of the overall idea anyway

It's a fusion of ATLA and Bleach, going off the anime of both (I know that *technically ATLA isn't an "anime" but it was done in that style so I consider it one)

Essentially the ideas at play are this:

1. The Shinigami from Bleach and the organization they are part of The 13 Court Guard Squads are all made up of humans who have high spirit energy, which makes them able to see spirits that exist in the physical world even when it isn't a solstace, help recently deceased human souls cross over to the spirit world and fight the evil spirits "Hollows" as they are called in the Bleach universe, because these tasks are needed to maintain balance between the worlds but are not the Avatar's primary responsibility to that end. They also step in to help when the problem has to do with the spirit world and is too much for one person (even the Avatar) to handle or during the time between one Avatar's death and their successor becoming a fully realized Avatar.

2. Zuko is trying to put measures in place to protect the Fire Nation and the world from a war like the one that just ended. Part of that plan involves reviving an ancient structure of the Fire Nation's own government that Sozin destroyed. He seeks Aang's help to do it because he knows that a lot of the people he needs to make it happen aren't going to trust him very easily.

This, leads Aang to re-connect with a friend he thought was lost to him forever. Rukia Kuchiki (bleach) is the only surviving member of a Fire Nation noble family that was once part of the very structure Zuko wants to recreate, however when she is attacked and nearly killed by an old enemy who should have been in prison since before the war started and who both she and Aang believed was dead it is discovered that Zuko made a terrible mistake when he released all the war prisoners. Now Aang and Zuko must apprehend him before he strikes again and must find a way to move past all the trouble this had caused.

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« Reply #1940 on: Jan 17, 2016 01:01 pm »

I don't know enough about Bleach to give any real feedback, aside from the Fire Nation's history seems more vested in the Sun Warrior's legacy, as well as the events of the recent Smoke and Shadow comics, and the lion turtles' "firetosser" society that Wan was part of.

Given your last post was in 2012 before coming back, I'm guessing you may not have seen Seasons 2 through 4 of TLOK - there's a lot that deals with bending's origins and ancient history in Season 2, Beginnings Part 1 and 2. Might want to watch those... or strongly hint they're not part of you fic's "canon", like how I'm ignoring anything past The Rift.

Anyways...

Just a general question - if you hint at a "Deus Ex Machina" plenty of times before it happens, it's not particularly "plot saving"(just a large leap, and not even for the good guys, at least not at first), have a small explanation or something around the time of its introduction, and then a fuller explanation later, would it be considered Deus Ex Machina then?

From Google's definition:
de·us ex ma·chi·na
/ˌdāəs eks ˈmäkənə,ˌdāəs eks ˈmakənə/
noun

noun: deus ex machina

an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExMachina

If it's foreshadowed, it's not unexpected. If it's not necessary for the continued survival of the human race or your faction or whatever(humanity being boned without Kaiju Korra/Fairy Queen Jinora), it's not saving a seemingly hopeless situation. "Contrived plot device"... that's harder to pin down what is and is not.

During a recent re-watching of Season 1 of TLOK, I realized something else. I guess there's always how you execute any "surprise"/"D.E.M." as well - if you do it well or relatively well, like the lion turtle and Aang, it's not quite so obnoxious. I remember "buying" the whole lion turtle thing the first time I watched it. If it's closer to Korra getting her elements back and energybending without much more than
Quote
(Korra stops by the edge of a cliff and looks out to the horizon. She starts to shed tears and falls down and cry. As she curls herself in, she senses Tenzin coming up behind her.)

Korra: (In tears) Not now, Tenzin. I just want to be left alone.
Aang: (Walking up to Korra) But you called me here.
Korra: (Startled and astonished) Aang.
Aang: You have finally connected with your spiritual self.
Korra: How?
Aang: When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change.
that's when they are ineffective, not as likely to be bought. If they had made stronger hints that Korra was or was just possibly feeling suicidal, and that not walking off that cliff was her rejecting that notion, I would have bought the whole thing a lot more. I'm just looking to avoid any similar mistakes... while at the same time putting in what I want to, and have been thinking on for so long.

(No, I won't say what, aside from this - special bending power reveals tend to be this way by their very nature, i.e. someone doing something they didn't know they could do during extreme times of stress, like Bolin and his lavabending. D.E.M. the first viewing, but on further thought, it's "realistic", in that people do crazy things under adrenaline, so why should bending be different. So it's not that.)
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2016 01:18 pm by Freedom153 » Logged

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« Reply #1941 on: Jan 17, 2016 05:03 pm »

It's not so much that I didn't see them, I just am basing this solely off of what is known based on ATLA, which is the one that I really loved, LOK was alright, but as far as this story is concerned not much it happened (of course not since less than a year has passed since the war).

As for the origin of bending, that is incorperated and not a stretch to either canon the way its eventually explained. I haven't read the comics so those really are out.

As for what Zuko's trying to do, the thing he's trying to recreate is post Sun Warriors, I know I didn't give any details but essentially it's a Fire Nation parliment that has limited capabilities to reign in the Fire Lord in an emergency, hence why Sizin would have disassembled it before the war even started.
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That Could Have Been Executed Better


« Reply #1942 on: Feb 07, 2016 11:57 am »

Next question, even if first wasn't answered(probably answered it myself with the way I worded it; "If it's all those things, probably not..."): does anyone have a comprehensive list of things that influenced both ATLA and TLOK, from general setting and tropes to specifics? I've got a fairly basic idea - drawing from these sources for further material and stuff of my own, besides some of my already chosen other sources and influences.

I know the basics, but lack super fine detail. Especially on influences on TLOK. Things like drawing from another series' content or a different intellectual property are the most important - I get most of the cultural/historical references and ties.

Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head, ATLA:
My Neighbor Totoro - Appa design as 6-legged mammal, and some other things
Studio Ghibli's work in general
FLCL/Fooly Cooly - "Staff members were required to watch the whole series multiple times"
The obvious culture influences, like Earth Kingdom = China, Fire Nation = Japan plus some China, Air Nomads = Tibet, Water Tribes = Inuit, Sun Warriors = Aztec/Mesoamerican, and everything that entails from names to weapons to customs
"Stereotypical" ancient Far Eastern fantasy setting and associated tropes
SLIGHT steampunk, more "early industrial steampunk", with the tanks, and definitely the airships and The Drill
Neon Genesis Evangelion, for Hei Bai's Dark Spirit form
Real world 20th century political ideologies - fascism, post-war peace close to modern globalism

TLOK:
Early 20th century, ~1917(Equalist Revolution parallels with Bolsheviks) to ~1940-45(Kuvira's Earth Empire partial parallels with rise and fall of Nazi Germany, along with rate of advancement of technology, and the existence of a spirit "atomic bomb")
New York City, early 20th century
Akira explosion I'm pretty sure they admitted it being a reference
*insert mecha series here* for the mechatanks/suits and the Colossus; My best guess, a blend of steampunk, Gundam, Neon Genesis Evangelion(given earlier Hei Bai Dark Spirit form) and Transformers

Studio Ghibli again for spirit designs
Real world 20th century political ideologies, sometimes borrowing visuals as well - communism, theocracy, anarchists, fascism
Steampunk again, much stronger, in Book 4 turning to post-Cold War near future/scifi with "spiritpunk" weaponry and the Colossus' power source
Zoroastrianism/ Hindu/ Buddhist mythology (Raava and Vaatu)

There's always http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Influences_on_the_Avatar_series for Avatar: The Last Airbender, but... nothing of its type for The Legend of Korra.
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« Reply #1943 on: Feb 17, 2016 07:00 pm »

So I was thinking about an action novel set in the Boiling Rock. My idea is that Mai is married to Zuko, and is covering for him by taking a tour of the Boiling Rock and showing support for a new Warden.

Then everything changes when the terrorists attack.

They're the typical anti-Zuko hotmen, and they seize the prison, cut off access to the outside world, and issue a whole bunch of completely unreasonable demands like Zuko abdicating, Ozai being released and restored, the colonies being reclaimed, and so on. From the outside, it looks like a bad hostage situation with no easy way to break in without bringing the whole prison down on the hostages' heads, and so Zuko is proceeding carefully to try to negotiate a better situation.

Inside, the truth is vastly different.

The terrorists weren't able to completely capture their "hostages." The terrorists simply released most of the prisoners and let slip the dogs of a massive prison riot. A team of guards has holed up in the lowest level of the prison and set up to repel a siege. And the reason they're down there is because they're trying to keep anyone from freeing the greatest danger in the entire prison- Azula. She got her own special vault of a cell, and the terrorists' whole goal is to free her.

Mai, meanwhile, got cut off from the surviving guards. She's alone, using her knowledge of the Boiling Rock to stay out of sight, but she understands that it's just a matter of time until the prison population overwhelms the last of the guards, and no one outside understands the urgency. She knows she can't fight this little war on her own. So she sets out to assemble a team of prisoners and either get word to the outside or kill Azula before it's too late.

I'm assembling ideas for Mai's team. I think Long Feng is a must. He'll gladly cut a deal with her, and he has no love for Azula, but he's slimy enough that readers won't trust him. I was thinking Chit Sang might be another choice, that he turned out to be a repeat offender even after his amnesty and he wound up in jail again. He'd join Mai because he's lost all control of his fellow prisoners and wants to be top dog again. I'm also considering Smellerbee and Longshot, with the idea that they might consider Azula a worse option than Zuko, but they might also consider killing Mai to be a consolation prize.

The story would be violent, but also kind of goofy. I'm not looking to tell a hard-hitting story about criminal justice or life in prison, I'm more interested in having a bunch of forcibly enclosed psychos commit violence against each other while Mai makes droll commentary, with a pace and intensity that ramps up until everyone is fighting everyone and then 98% of the cast dies in bloody hilarious (or hilariously bloody) ways.

Feedback? Ideas for Mai's team of untrustworthy goons?
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« Reply #1944 on: Feb 17, 2016 07:32 pm »

Why not? I like the idea of making it goofy, you can have fun with the dozens of prison tropes already established. As for Mai's team, you already sound like you got a good thing going with the Freedom Fighters, Chit Sang, and Long Feng. I'm not really useful when it comes to coming up with creative ideas, but you could probably throw in Gao, the bully soldier as a rival gang leader.
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« Reply #1945 on: Feb 17, 2016 08:05 pm »

Ooh, that's a neat idea. An ex-guard with a rivalry with Chit Sang would make for a great team dynamic.
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« Reply #1946 on: Feb 17, 2016 08:43 pm »

It's interesting that you said ex-guard. I was going to say that Gao strikes me as more of a corrupt sheriff rather than a gang leader in prison. Having him be a former guard would be a neat way to have him possess both characteristics.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2016 08:45 pm by Colonel_Brian » Logged
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« Reply #1947 on: Feb 18, 2016 06:46 pm »

Yeah, I was calling him a "cop" in my head, but the terms doesn't really work for Avatar settings, so I landed on "guard." It doesn't really work, but I wanted to emphasize that Gao (corrupt as he was) was still an opposite to Chit Sang, who would have worked to subvert society's laws, while Gao over-applied them. So they're the same, but different enough to resent each other.
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« Reply #1948 on: Mar 03, 2016 02:25 am »

Guys, I have a problem. It has recently occured to me that the relationship between two of my original characters is flawed. Basically both are con man, yet one of the characters falls hook line and sinker for the other's scam. It seems to me that a seasoned shyster should be able a to recognize a kindred spirit.

What makes this a problem, is that this relationship drives much of the plot from part two of my story onwards, yet it's such a big oversight. I thought of just handwaving this as the one character (let's call him Lao Tzu for convenience) being that good of a con artist, yet I'm not satisfied. To me, Lao Tzu isn't meant to be some master manipulator, he's a guy who is obviously evil and up to no good and is only able to get as far as he did because he played the other character in this relationship (Yuandao) against his personal enemies, yet Yuandao is supposed to be a shyster (or he starts off as one anyway), which makes it difficult for me to accept he'd allow himself to be used as some other guy's pawn. I need some advise.

Can someone help me think of a way to explain this fact, or do I need to have a big twist somewhere in the story where it is revealed that Yuandao wasn't really falling for an obvious scam, but was tricking Lao Tzu into falling for a scam of his own? I really don't like the last option, because it sounds like it will distract from the primary conflict between the protagonist and Yuandao, which is what the story is about. More over, Lao Tzu's scam is predicated on Yuandao finding out unsavory things about the Fire Nation royal family, which is what ultimately results in the primary conflict I just wrote about. So what your guy's thoughts?
« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2016 02:28 am by Colonel_Brian » Logged
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« Reply #1949 on: Mar 03, 2016 09:53 am »

Different options:

1 love makes blind. This one is corny though, and nobody is that blind anyways. Scratch this one.
2 he knows he is being scammed but goes with the flow as long as it is working out for him too. Its a silent mutual benefit thing. The twist here is that he doesn't quite know how big the scam is. Along the way he learns  more and more about just how in over his head he is, but also how important this is for his love. Meanwhile Lao tzu never intended for yuandao to go along that far. He actually counts on yuandao to discover the scam and do a particular something or quit the game before it gets really dangerous. He cant let him in on the deal because of reasons though. Choices have to be made for both: How far will yuandao go along? Until he has what he wants but hurts Lao Tzu? How far will Lao Tzu drive this scam? Is it worth it? Is it worth destroying their relationship or worse, Yuandao? Is there an escape for both?

You can play with frustration, sacrifice, selfishness...

Or just hate my idea and do something else Tongue

/edit
3 yuandao knows about the scam, sees how in over his head Lao Tzu is because he has intel Lao  Tzu hasn't, but can't say anything because of reasons, and decides to play along and help Lao Tzu without being discovered. Resulting in a 'you helped me scam you?! That's so insane I love you for it' revelation
« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2016 10:09 am by Yougo » Logged

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