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Author Topic: Is Iroh more powerful than Ozai?  (Read 30088 times)
Arzon
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« Reply #475 on: Aug 26, 2014 03:04 am »

Well, logically, Ozai perfomance under Comet was definitely impressive. hardly less impressive than Iroh giant fireball. And since COmet enhances all benders by the same amount...
Yeah but it only enhances the fire,not their agility,techniques,etc.
Ozai is obviously more agile than Iroh. Cannot be sure about techniques though
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AvatarKyoshi
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« Reply #476 on: Aug 26, 2014 08:57 am »

I say Iroh has obviously more wisdom than Ozai and in terms of Firebending techniques and knowledge he comes out winning,however Ozai`s strenght and agility is far more superior than Iroh`s.
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #477 on: Aug 26, 2014 09:45 am »

I'd say good ol' Ozai is more durable and got more stamina too.
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Frelord Chris
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« Reply #478 on: Aug 26, 2014 07:29 pm »

I say Iroh has obviously more wisdom than Ozai and in terms of Firebending techniques and knowledge he comes out winning,however Ozai`s strenght and agility is far more superior than Iroh`s.
^This seems pretty accurate Arzon or what do you think?



I'd say good ol' Ozai is more durable and got more stamina too.
Yep completely agree here too

Double post merged. Please use the modify button next time.
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« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2014 08:36 pm by Cerulean » Logged

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pixiesunbelle
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« Reply #479 on: Sep 04, 2014 02:20 pm »

Iroh isn't so much lazy but he doesn't want the throne. If he did then he would have fought for it. He talks about finding your calling and doing what you want with life. In the end, Iroh wants to make tea. So, that's what he does while helping Zuko find his path.

Ozai and Iroh fight differently and think differently to boot. Ozai is cold and calculating. He uses strategy and force to get what he wants. Iroh uses his wisdom to wait, think, and plan. He spent time in jail and used that time to build his strength and plan his exit. I'd say in power they are evenly matched but Iroh can really win if he wants to because he has strong wisdom and a spiritual connection which Ozai doesn't possess.
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AncientScarab
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« Reply #480 on: Oct 19, 2014 01:54 pm »

Ozai probably know about Lighting Redirection.

Yeah probably, considering it was used against him twice, he knows about it now, but that was a technique Iroh came up with. There's nothing suggesting Ozai would come up with it on his own around the same time. He was busy leading a war. I think it's a long stretch.

Between the two, I believe Iroh would dominate in defense, strategy, and technique. He would probably last longer in a fight because he usually conserves energy only using what's necessary moment to moment. While Ozai isn't weak in his strategy and technique, he's brute and does not reserve his energy. He starts the fight at full power, and I imagine hasn't experienced longer fights due to that. Also, his defense technique seems crude to me. If I remember correctly, it's primarily running away from his opponent. Again, I imagine he hasn't needed to implement it in most of his fights. He probably overwhelms his opponent in offense.

I believe Iroh would win in a fight. I bet he knows his brother's fighting well enough to evade Ozai in just a way that encourages Ozai to continue to expend all his energy early in the fight. Then when he's tiring out, Iroh would make the winning move.

Thanks for this statement, Ms. WW. It fits my thoughts almost exactly. I also thought it was very conspicuous how Ozai avoided any direct confrontation with his brother Iroh. And far as lightning redirection, I've always thought Iroh developed the technique out of potential necessity rather than just a random discovery. As far as we know - lightning redirection is a defense exclusively against other fire benders. He probably knew his subsequent position against the war could make him a target and used his ingenuity to aid in his security.
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2014 02:03 pm by AncientScarab » Logged

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ThaiOzai
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« Reply #481 on: Oct 19, 2014 02:32 pm »

Ozai probably know about Lighting Redirection.

Yeah probably, considering it was used against him twice, he knows about it now, but that was a technique Iroh came up with. There's nothing suggesting Ozai would come up with it on his own around the same time. He was busy leading a war. I think it's a long stretch.

Between the two, I believe Iroh would dominate in defense, strategy, and technique. He would probably last longer in a fight because he usually conserves energy only using what's necessary moment to moment. While Ozai isn't weak in his strategy and technique, he's brute and does not reserve his energy. He starts the fight at full power, and I imagine hasn't experienced longer fights due to that. Also, his defense technique seems crude to me. If I remember correctly, it's primarily running away from his opponent. Again, I imagine he hasn't needed to implement it in most of his fights. He probably overwhelms his opponent in offense.

I believe Iroh would win in a fight. I bet he knows his brother's fighting well enough to evade Ozai in just a way that encourages Ozai to continue to expend all his energy early in the fight. Then when he's tiring out, Iroh would make the winning move.

Thanks for this statement, Ms. WW. It fits my thoughts almost exactly. I also thought it was very conspicuous how Ozai avoided any direct confrontation with his brother Iroh. And far as lightning redirection, I've always thought Iroh developed the technique out of potential necessity rather than just a random discovery. As far as we know - lightning redirection is a defense exclusively against other fire benders. He probably knew his subsequent position against the war could make him a target and used his ingenuity to aid in his security.

I don't think it's fair to say Ozai was avoiding Iroh. There's no instances of Ozai avoiding Iroh, because Iroh was either on the other side of the world or already locked up in jail.

But nice theory about Iroh's lightning redirection. Although he did first use it during a lightning storm.
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AncientScarab
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« Reply #482 on: Oct 19, 2014 07:29 pm »

Ozai probably know about Lighting Redirection.

Yeah probably, considering it was used against him twice, he knows about it now, but that was a technique Iroh came up with. There's nothing suggesting Ozai would come up with it on his own around the same time. He was busy leading a war. I think it's a long stretch.

Between the two, I believe Iroh would dominate in defense, strategy, and technique. He would probably last longer in a fight because he usually conserves energy only using what's necessary moment to moment. While Ozai isn't weak in his strategy and technique, he's brute and does not reserve his energy. He starts the fight at full power, and I imagine hasn't experienced longer fights due to that. Also, his defense technique seems crude to me. If I remember correctly, it's primarily running away from his opponent. Again, I imagine he hasn't needed to implement it in most of his fights. He probably overwhelms his opponent in offense.

I believe Iroh would win in a fight. I bet he knows his brother's fighting well enough to evade Ozai in just a way that encourages Ozai to continue to expend all his energy early in the fight. Then when he's tiring out, Iroh would make the winning move.

Thanks for this statement, Ms. WW. It fits my thoughts almost exactly. I also thought it was very conspicuous how Ozai avoided any direct confrontation with his brother Iroh. And far as lightning redirection, I've always thought Iroh developed the technique out of potential necessity rather than just a random discovery. As far as we know - lightning redirection is a defense exclusively against other fire benders. He probably knew his subsequent position against the war could make him a target and used his ingenuity to aid in his security.

I don't think it's fair to say Ozai was avoiding Iroh. There's no instances of Ozai avoiding Iroh, because Iroh was either on the other side of the world or already locked up in jail.

But nice theory about Iroh's lightning redirection. Although he did first use it during a lightning storm.

I wasn't gonna respond, but since your screen name is "ThaiOzai" I figured I'd indulge your perceived subjectivity on the issue.

Actually, I didn't say Ozai avoided him, I said Ozai avoided direct confrontation with him...and Iroh was jailed for only a fraction of the entire series. My point was that, even with all the tension between them (at least in Ozai's case), any confrontation or even any interaction between the two brothers was glaringly absent from ATLA. To that end, I think Ozai would've been the one most likely to compel a confrontation, especially since after Book I, Iroh was considered a traitor and a huge security risk. Having Azula hunt him and Zuko down helped to push the narrative along, but the fact they had absolutely no interaction at all gives me fodder for my imagination - like maybe Ozai still respected his brother and his abilities despite his "proclaimed" treachery  Grin

As an aside, I think it would've been cool if Ozai hadn't taken the brat route and begged daddy for Iroh's birthright. It would've been more exciting to see him weasel an agni kai out of Iroh after his defeat at BSS with the crown on the line. He could've either easily beaten the grieving Iroh, or had his behind handed to him, lol.  Wink

Oh, and Iroh's first shown use of lightning redirection during the storm is immaterial to my theory of how and why he might have developed the technique.
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2014 07:49 pm by AncientScarab » Logged

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ThaiOzai
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« Reply #483 on: Oct 19, 2014 07:59 pm »

Ozai probably know about Lighting Redirection.

Yeah probably, considering it was used against him twice, he knows about it now, but that was a technique Iroh came up with. There's nothing suggesting Ozai would come up with it on his own around the same time. He was busy leading a war. I think it's a long stretch.

Between the two, I believe Iroh would dominate in defense, strategy, and technique. He would probably last longer in a fight because he usually conserves energy only using what's necessary moment to moment. While Ozai isn't weak in his strategy and technique, he's brute and does not reserve his energy. He starts the fight at full power, and I imagine hasn't experienced longer fights due to that. Also, his defense technique seems crude to me. If I remember correctly, it's primarily running away from his opponent. Again, I imagine he hasn't needed to implement it in most of his fights. He probably overwhelms his opponent in offense.

I believe Iroh would win in a fight. I bet he knows his brother's fighting well enough to evade Ozai in just a way that encourages Ozai to continue to expend all his energy early in the fight. Then when he's tiring out, Iroh would make the winning move.

Thanks for this statement, Ms. WW. It fits my thoughts almost exactly. I also thought it was very conspicuous how Ozai avoided any direct confrontation with his brother Iroh. And far as lightning redirection, I've always thought Iroh developed the technique out of potential necessity rather than just a random discovery. As far as we know - lightning redirection is a defense exclusively against other fire benders. He probably knew his subsequent position against the war could make him a target and used his ingenuity to aid in his security.

I don't think it's fair to say Ozai was avoiding Iroh. There's no instances of Ozai avoiding Iroh, because Iroh was either on the other side of the world or already locked up in jail.

But nice theory about Iroh's lightning redirection. Although he did first use it during a lightning storm.

I wasn't gonna respond, but since your screen name is "ThaiOzai" I figured I'd indulge your perceived subjectivity on the issue.

Actually, I didn't say Ozai avoided him, I said Ozai avoided direct confrontation with him...and Iroh was jailed for only a fraction of the entire series. My point was that, even with all the tension between them (at least in Ozai's case), any confrontation or even any interaction between the two brothers was glaringly absent from ATLA. To that end, I think Ozai would've been the one most likely to compel a confrontation, especially since after Book I, Iroh was considered a traitor and a huge security risk. Having Azula hunt him and Zuko down helped to push the narrative along, but the fact they had absolutely no interaction at all gives me fodder for my imagination - like maybe Ozai still respected his brother and his abilities despite his "proclaimed" treachery  Grin

As an aside, I think it would've been cool if Ozai hadn't taken the brat route and begged daddy for Iroh's birthright. It would've been more exciting to see him weasel an agni kai out of Iroh after his defeat at BSS with the crown on the line. He could've either easily beaten the grieving Iroh, or had his behind handed to him, lol.  Wink

Oh, and Iroh's first shown use of lightning redirection during the storm is immaterial to my theory of how and why he might have developed the technique.

I'm just not seeing how Ozai avoided direct confrontation with Iroh. Iroh only became an enemy of the Fire Nation at the end of Book 1, and so Ozai sent Azula after him. Ozai's the ruler of the nation, it's not like he can just pack up his bags and personally hunt Iroh down. Plus, if he thought that Azula and a bunch of mooks could bring in Iroh and Azula, he probably doesn't respect Iroh all that much. The general consensus around the Fire Nation seems to be that Iroh is past his prime and is a lazy old man.

The only time they were ever on the same continent was during the first half of Book 3, when Iroh was imprisoned and Ozai didn't need to confront him. If anything, Iroh could be said to have avoided Ozai by not hunting him down after he broke out of jail. After all, Ozai didn't know Iroh had escaped until after the Eclipse was over.

And don't be defensive, I said your theory was good. I was just pointing out that there are some non-combat applications of lightning redirection, so it's possible he developed it into a combat technique later. But I like your theory, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

Also, I too was really hoping for a duel between the brothers. I hoped that maybe it would happen during the finale, before Aang's fight with Ozai. Ozai defeating Iroh in an epic Agni Kai would have cemented Ozai's title as 'the baddest man on the planet' while also adding some nice drama leading into the Avatar and the Firelord's epic showdown.

Realy though, I consider Ozai and Iroh to be 1A and 1B. In Iroh's prime though, I could see him being even more formidable than Ozai was thanks to his extended combat experience and wisdom.
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FirelordxZuko
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« Reply #484 on: Oct 24, 2014 07:49 am »

The Dragon of the west is stronger than some guy who constantly fights little children.
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AncientScarab
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« Reply #485 on: Nov 13, 2017 10:01 am »

Ozai probably know about Lighting Redirection.

Yeah probably, considering it was used against him twice, he knows about it now, but that was a technique Iroh came up with. There's nothing suggesting Ozai would come up with it on his own around the same time. He was busy leading a war. I think it's a long stretch.

Between the two, I believe Iroh would dominate in defense, strategy, and technique. He would probably last longer in a fight because he usually conserves energy only using what's necessary moment to moment. While Ozai isn't weak in his strategy and technique, he's brute and does not reserve his energy. He starts the fight at full power, and I imagine hasn't experienced longer fights due to that. Also, his defense technique seems crude to me. If I remember correctly, it's primarily running away from his opponent. Again, I imagine he hasn't needed to implement it in most of his fights. He probably overwhelms his opponent in offense.

I believe Iroh would win in a fight. I bet he knows his brother's fighting well enough to evade Ozai in just a way that encourages Ozai to continue to expend all his energy early in the fight. Then when he's tiring out, Iroh would make the winning move.

Thanks for this statement, Ms. WW. It fits my thoughts almost exactly. I also thought it was very conspicuous how Ozai avoided any direct confrontation with his brother Iroh. And far as lightning redirection, I've always thought Iroh developed the technique out of potential necessity rather than just a random discovery. As far as we know - lightning redirection is a defense exclusively against other fire benders. He probably knew his subsequent position against the war could make him a target and used his ingenuity to aid in his security.

I don't think it's fair to say Ozai was avoiding Iroh. There's no instances of Ozai avoiding Iroh, because Iroh was either on the other side of the world or already locked up in jail.

But nice theory about Iroh's lightning redirection. Although he did first use it during a lightning storm.

I wasn't gonna respond, but since your screen name is "ThaiOzai" I figured I'd indulge your perceived subjectivity on the issue.

Actually, I didn't say Ozai avoided him, I said Ozai avoided direct confrontation with him...and Iroh was jailed for only a fraction of the entire series. My point was that, even with all the tension between them (at least in Ozai's case), any confrontation or even any interaction between the two brothers was glaringly absent from ATLA. To that end, I think Ozai would've been the one most likely to compel a confrontation, especially since after Book I, Iroh was considered a traitor and a huge security risk. Having Azula hunt him and Zuko down helped to push the narrative along, but the fact they had absolutely no interaction at all gives me fodder for my imagination - like maybe Ozai still respected his brother and his abilities despite his "proclaimed" treachery  Grin

As an aside, I think it would've been cool if Ozai hadn't taken the brat route and begged daddy for Iroh's birthright. It would've been more exciting to see him weasel an agni kai out of Iroh after his defeat at BSS with the crown on the line. He could've either easily beaten the grieving Iroh, or had his behind handed to him, lol.  Wink

Oh, and Iroh's first shown use of lightning redirection during the storm is immaterial to my theory of how and why he might have developed the technique.

I'm just not seeing how Ozai avoided direct confrontation with Iroh. Iroh only became an enemy of the Fire Nation at the end of Book 1, and so Ozai sent Azula after him. Ozai's the ruler of the nation, it's not like he can just pack up his bags and personally hunt Iroh down. Plus, if he thought that Azula and a bunch of mooks could bring in Iroh and Azula, he probably doesn't respect Iroh all that much. The general consensus around the Fire Nation seems to be that Iroh is past his prime and is a lazy old man.

The only time they were ever on the same continent was during the first half of Book 3, when Iroh was imprisoned and Ozai didn't need to confront him. If anything, Iroh could be said to have avoided Ozai by not hunting him down after he broke out of jail. After all, Ozai didn't know Iroh had escaped until after the Eclipse was over.

And don't be defensive, I said your theory was good. I was just pointing out that there are some non-combat applications of lightning redirection, so it's possible he developed it into a combat technique later. But I like your theory, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

Also, I too was really hoping for a duel between the brothers. I hoped that maybe it would happen during the finale, before Aang's fight with Ozai. Ozai defeating Iroh in an epic Agni Kai would have cemented Ozai's title as 'the baddest man on the planet' while also adding some nice drama leading into the Avatar and the Firelord's epic showdown.

Realy though, I consider Ozai and Iroh to be 1A and 1B. In Iroh's prime though, I could see him being even more formidable than Ozai was thanks to his extended combat experience and wisdom.

Been a long time since I've been on here! For nostalgia's sake, I'm doing a little lurking today (plus ATLA was in the DVD player). Thanks for your response, ThaiOzai (didn't think I was being defensive though). Anyway, we'll obviously just have to agree to disagree on Iroh vs. Ozai.

It's true that with Iroh, we really didn't see the depth of his powers, and we have very little to go on other than inference, and the few occasions where he actually did firebend on the show. We do, at least, know that he should have a vast knowledge and practice of firebending and that his advanced age doesn't appear to impact anything, other than the wisdom learned to use prudence with his bending.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ozai is an awesome bender from what we've seen. His comet/anger fueled battle with Aang was great, but I'm inclined to think that, by the end of the ATLA series, even Zuko is a better bender than Ozai, using the principles he learned from Iroh. It all depends on what criteria you're using for "better". Thanks for the discussion!


« Last Edit: Nov 13, 2017 12:41 pm by AncientScarab » Logged

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