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Author Topic: New Novel -The Rise of Kyoshi - June 2019  (Read 4903 times)
Loopy
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« Reply #50 on: Aug 09, 2019 07:46 pm »

I dunno, an anti-climax? I thought it made it even more climactic. A fight between Kyoshi and Jianzhu was going to be fairly predictable, so first having it be that invisible duel was neat and very appropriate to the genre, I thought, and then 'the plot-device' was a twist that made perfect sense and completed Jianzhu's arc of all his compromises steadily destroying everything he has. Kyoshi didn't need to beat Jianzhu in a fight because physically overcoming him was never part of her story.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #51 on: Aug 10, 2019 10:57 am »

I dunno, an anti-climax? I thought it made it even more climactic. A fight between Kyoshi and Jianzhu was going to be fairly predictable, so first having it be that invisible duel was neat and very appropriate to the genre, I thought, and then 'the plot-device' was a twist that made perfect sense and completed Jianzhu's arc of all his compromises steadily destroying everything he has. Kyoshi didn't need to beat Jianzhu in a fight because physically overcoming him was never part of her story.

I'd have rather they held that off to the next book tbh (especially if its going to deal more with the spirit world) I liked that the end didn't actually come down to a 'fight'.  We'd ALREADY got one of the cooler Avatar State moments as it was... but even if they wanted to save Jianzhu for the next book to 'complete this particular plot thread, I'd have liked if THIS book had just followed through Kyoshi's journey Without that little bit of twist ties.  Kyoshi 'defeating' Jianzhu by preventing him from casual murder WHILE outmaneuvering him by having her people rescuing 'the package' at the same time could have been pretty satisfying if Jianzhu had ever had the chance to realize she'd just outright beat him without having to become what he wanted her to be.

It's really only a minor gripe with me, partially because yes... That's probably about how Jianzhu deserved to go out... but similarly it was a lot to throw in right at the end like that without any foreshadowing. (Even if it is itself the foreshadowing for the next volume)
« Last Edit: Aug 10, 2019 10:58 am by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: Aug 31, 2019 04:39 pm »

So, I'm like half-way through this book and while I'm liking it may I address how grimdark it is? It is grimdark done very-very well but I'm approaching the point where it gets really exhausting to read - I'm at Kyoshi and Rangi joining the Flying Opera Company btw - and I just want to know if it gets better.

I thought my fanfics pushed the boundaries of the setting... but oh boy I was wrong Cheesy!
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« Reply #53 on: Sep 01, 2019 10:48 pm »

Anyway...great book. I found it to be a very worthy addition to the franchise, and it expanded on the lore quite nicely. I like the mystery and mythos surrounding Lao Ge’s character. His presence gives the setting a very mythic feel. I hope Pai Mei makes an appearance in the next installment. I mean, why not? He’d make a great addition to the franchise. Though he would have worked best in this volume. You know, with Kyoshi’s roaring rampage of revenge and all. Anywho, Jianzhu was likewise a great character. Probably my favorite villain in the franchise so far. Kyoshi was done justice as well. Can’t wait to see what happens next.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #54 on: Sep 02, 2019 12:02 pm »

So, I'm like half-way through this book and while I'm liking it may I address how grimdark it is? It is grimdark done very-very well but I'm approaching the point where it gets really exhausting to read - I'm at Kyoshi and Rangi joining the Flying Opera Company btw - and I just want to know if it gets better.

I thought my fanfics pushed the boundaries of the setting... but oh boy I was wrong Cheesy!

I think that for the most part it actually lightens up a tinsy bit once she meets the Opera Company... but I like to feel it's a bit of 'what makes sense to the character' storytelling than constrained to just one mode of storytelling.  Korra wasn't really thematically or atmospherically resonant with Aang afterall.  The kind of life that leads to someone like 'Only Justice can bring peace/How dare you defy your Avatar/Yeah I killed the little Chin flea 'what of it?' sort of Avatar is bound to be a little more immediately uncomfortable than the average kids show protagonist... that's not to say Aang didn't have tragedy (his whole frigging country was murdered!!!) but Kyoshi is actually there to experience the things that make her what she is whereas Aang remained peppy cause he didn't WATCH his people burn.
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« Reply #55 on: Sep 02, 2019 12:44 pm »

I think that for the most part it actually lightens up a tinsy bit once she meets the Opera Company...

Yeah, I can see it now. Kirima is now the light that keeps me walking in the darkness Cheesy.

The kind of life that leads to someone like 'Only Justice can bring peace/How dare you defy your Avatar/Yeah I killed the little Chin flea 'what of it?' sort of Avatar is bound to be a little more immediately uncomfortable than the average kids show protagonist...

I fully expected to see some dark stuff but I also expected it to come in pieces and have the usual ATLA hijinks in-between, not unending bleakness and hopelessness where the writer only gives me a sliver of delight to utterly crush it in the very next scene.
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« Reply #56 on: Sep 02, 2019 03:07 pm »

Bwah? No, I'm with ViridianIV. Between the Opera Company and the romance, there was plenty of lightness to break up the death and revenge and stuff. I mean, sure, there's a spirit made of slime and teeth that eats people, but after Koh, I'm ready for any kind of horror monster from this franchise. Cheesy
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« Reply #57 on: Sep 02, 2019 03:48 pm »

there's a spirit made of slime and teeth that eats people

That spirit devoured the entire population of a miner village, then kept the teeth of the villagers to chew on more people. That's not creepy like Koh. That's f*cked up.

Then just look at Yokoya: it is a place of utter misery inhabited by terrible people. Its only place of wonder is the Avatar Mansion that looks nice on the outside but is rotten to the core in the inside (also, the inhabitants of the peninsula hate it but they are petty and terrible people so nobody minds them). When the pirates declared that they will invade and subjugate Yokoya I was like "OK, that's gonna be an improvement to that place!" I picked Yokoya because it is a rare case when you don't get a bait that the situation can be better: the place gets exactly zero redeeming qualities throughout the entire book.
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« Reply #58 on: Sep 02, 2019 04:53 pm »

Eh, I don't think it's even as bad as Republic City. And we know that Kyoshi improves it.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #59 on: Sep 03, 2019 08:22 am »

Eh, I don't think it's even as bad as Republic City.

Republic City at least had some pretty statues, a very pretty bridge, and plenty of decent people like the Bending Brothers.

And we know that Kyoshi improves it.

At this point, I do wonder why she bothers to go back and live there.
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« Reply #60 on: Sep 03, 2019 05:38 pm »

decent people like the Bending Brothers.

The womanizing jerk and the manchild ego-maniac? Cheesy

Kyoshi's hometown never cheered for genocide, exiled an Avatar for something she didn't do, or birthed multiple sadistic organized crime rings.

The worst they did was bully and not feed a homeless orphan girl. That makes them like every town/city I've ever lived in or visited.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #61 on: Sep 04, 2019 02:17 am »

I fully expected to see some dark stuff but I also expected it to come in pieces and have the usual ATLA hijinks in-between, not unending bleakness and hopelessness where the writer only gives me a sliver of delight to utterly crush it in the very next scene.

Except that sort of life that made Aang.  Aang's life was a bit of dark stuff in between healthy childhood silliness, bonding and hijinks.  Kyoshi is Aang's least favorite past life because she's NOTHING like him... so it makes sense her life would be nothing like his


Republic City at least had some pretty statues, a very pretty bridge, and plenty of decent people like the Bending Brothers.  

Pretty statues covering up systemic classism and two very nice homeless wretches living in the sports stadium's attic doesn't make it a less bleak setting?  Yokoya has plenty of decent people as well a couple of whom are plenty nice to Kyoshi?  She's even in love with at least two of them.

At this point, I do wonder why she bothers to go back and live there.

Cause the Avatar helps people even if they don't believe or realize that they need the Avatar's help.....

Also probably because she has a mansion there.


Also... do we KNOW that spirit killed the miners and eats people with their teeth?  That seems like a rather large leap in logic considering whats actually in the text isn't anything more than descriptive of what the thing actually looks like...  Can it even really do something like that outside of the spirit world?  Is this supposed to be a 'dug to greedily and to deep' situation?  Or is it just a creepy spirit they could see because they were half in the spirit world?
« Last Edit: Sep 04, 2019 02:26 am by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: Sep 04, 2019 05:18 am »

The womanizing jerk and the manchild ego-maniac? Cheesy
Kyoshi's hometown never cheered for genocide, exiled an Avatar for something she didn't do, or birthed multiple sadistic organized crime rings.
Pretty statues covering up systemic classism and two very nice homeless wretches living in the sports stadium's attic doesn't make it a less bleak setting?

I mean fridge logic aside, Republic City never got the "Yokoya Treatment" where everything is consistently terrible and the writer points it out in case you somehow missed it.

Also... do we KNOW that spirit killed the miners and eats people with their teeth?

We have the haunting dead mining village, Kyoshi wondering where the miners went, Jianzhu mentioning that the spirit was not happy about the miners and their op, then suddenly, human teeth in the spirit - yup, there are your miners.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #63 on: Sep 04, 2019 10:43 am »

We have the haunting dead mining village, Kyoshi wondering where the miners went, Jianzhu mentioning that the spirit was not happy about the miners and their op, then suddenly, human teeth in the spirit - yup, there are your miners.

I dunno... Koh the face stealer has lots of faces, and I don't imagine he got them all in one place.  If the thing actually steals human teeth or something, I don't know if I believe it got them all from one place.  We haven't actually been given any forwarded explanation as to the things nature though... so I think that makes your interpretation as valid and possible as any other...

You're wrong if you don't think Koh is as horrific though... Kurik died at 30 and the last thing he did was go Koh hunting... sorta implies a connection there as well?   
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« Reply #64 on: Sep 05, 2019 06:12 pm »

The womanizing jerk and the manchild ego-maniac? Cheesy
Kyoshi's hometown never cheered for genocide, exiled an Avatar for something she didn't do, or birthed multiple sadistic organized crime rings.
Pretty statues covering up systemic classism and two very nice homeless wretches living in the sports stadium's attic doesn't make it a less bleak setting?

I mean fridge logic aside, Republic City never got the "Yokoya Treatment" where everything is consistently terrible and the writer points it out in case you somehow missed it.

You and I must process stories very differently. The stuff I listed about Republic City wasn't 'fridge logic' to me, it was, "Oh my Koh, this city has an arena full of people cheering for a family of pacifists to be spiritually maimed!!!!!" I can't imagine only realizing it was horrible later.

Kyoshi's bullies, though, were framed as local jerks who were largely poor before the infusion of money into their economy and so had a ruthless mindset. Like I said before, that's so common as to be practically invisible to me. When you started talking about it here, I had to scour my memory for what was so awful about the place. I think the story only made a deal out of it because Kyoshi was on the receiving end of the worst of it, and so it affected her character; the fact that Korra herself later glosses over Republic City being full of genocidal maniacs did nothing to lessen the prior impact for me.


Also... do we KNOW that spirit killed the miners and eats people with their teeth?

We have the haunting dead mining village, Kyoshi wondering where the miners went, Jianzhu mentioning that the spirit was not happy about the miners and their op, then suddenly, human teeth in the spirit - yup, there are your miners.

It just kept the teeth? What, did it trade all the other bones away? Cheesy

I figured that teeth were simply the thing's Aesthetic TM. They might not even be real. Half my teeth aren't, anymore.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #65 on: Sep 06, 2019 04:46 am »

You and I must process stories very differently. The stuff I listed about Republic City wasn't 'fridge logic' to me, it was, "Oh my Koh, this city has an arena full of people cheering for a family of pacifists to be spiritually maimed!!!!!" I can't imagine only realizing it was horrible later.

I actually did not recognize its significance until it was pointed out on this very forum. I mean, yeah, Amon doing a show with the airbender family in front of a dozen or so people would have been a little silly considering what the narrative wanted to achieve at that point. It was just unfortunate (poor) storytelling, the writers definitely wanted Republic City to be a nice but flawed place... unlike Yokoya that was terrible from beginning to end with 0 (zero!) redeeming qualities. Not even a pretty bridge. Nothing. Just a terrible place filled with terrible people.

It just kept the teeth? What, did it trade all the other bones away?

If Yun is any measure then yes, it kinda did Tongue.
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« Reply #66 on: Sep 06, 2019 06:54 pm »

It was just unfortunate (poor) storytelling, the writers definitely wanted Republic City to be a nice but flawed place...

Eh, maybe they started thinking of it that way, but the happy ending it got in the finale was being destroyed from a giant spirit explosion with plans to rebuild it 20 meters to the left.

I think the writers realized they had made it into a hellhole and embraced it. Whether that happened before or after the first Book aired is an open question.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #67 on: Sep 07, 2019 04:13 pm »

I finally finished the book. It was good, solid 8/10.

The two bad points were Kyoshi's strange character arc that felt like it was happening mostly off-screen and the ending kinda fell apart after the attack on the palace-prison.

The biggest strength of the book is how consistent and tight the writing is - I now seriously consider to read more of Yee's work. The tone is pretty darn grimdark, like, I would read Warhammer 40k to sleep better after this book, but it is so goddamn well-written grimdark I can't really protest. It is pretty dense and exhausting at the beginning but as I was reaching the end I realized that it was intentional.

However, I felt like the character rooster was a little weak. And some of the revelations were.... weird. I now want to see official material about Suki realizing what her facepaint actually represents because I'm fairly sure she doesn't know.

Then, of course, I was surprised and appeased to see that I nailed a lot of Kyoshi's life in my headcanon: crushing on a False Avatar, loving a military Fire Nation girl, getting caught between an airbender master and an earthbending master at one point, and destroying a pirate fleet. Even her character arc was very similar just the complete reverse of what we got. I'm... actually satisfied about how it turned out despite having hardcore Kyoshi fanboy expectations. And that should tell you something. Good book, good read, I can only recommend it to all fans!
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« Reply #68 on: Sep 07, 2019 07:13 pm »

The biggest strength of the book is how consistent and tight the writing is - I now seriously consider to read more of Yee's work. The tone is pretty darn grimdark, like, I would read Warhammer 40k to sleep better after this book, but it is so goddamn well-written grimdark I can't really protest. It is pretty dense and exhausting at the beginning but as I was reaching the end I realized that it was intentional.

I dunno, am I the weird one here? This book didn't strike me as anything notably dark. I've read Star Wars books that make this seem like a cuddle-picnic with bunnies, and that franchise never even touches most of the fantasy I've read. And I actively avoid stuff on the level of Game of Thrones and anything from the Horror genre.


And some of the revelations were.... weird. I now want to see official material about Suki realizing what her facepaint actually represents because I'm fairly sure she doesn't know.

You're only certain because you don't know the whole story. Wink I'm only 50% sure. But yeah, it would be great to have an epilogue/companion short like that, if Suki really doesn't know.
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« Reply #69 on: Sep 08, 2019 05:42 am »

This book didn't strike me as anything notably dark.

I dunno but this book has an uncomfortable amount of misery, unfulfillment, shame, humiliation, failure, and grief.
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« Reply #70 on: Sep 08, 2019 01:25 pm »

Symbolism is relative to the thing that most impactfully described it within living memory.  So what I mean is, whatever Kyoshi's face paint meant when she first put it on has no impact at all as to what it represents for Kyoshi by the end of her lifetime, or for Suki and the world Aang lives in as it pertains to Kyoshi individually and what SHE represents to them... unless that is, the Kyoshi Warriors are already made aware of the symbolism as written (which seems not impossible) as part of their no-doubt ludicrously rigid training regimens as child warriors to rear up an army of island defender Hit-Girls (No Big Daddy's in sight at least).

I don't think Kyoshi's character development happens off screen at all?  I think that it simply comes in an unusually dissonant variation of the Hero's journey.  The one area of concern here would be the flashbacks to her training to explain her actions during the prison break... but I feel like this actually works here where it doesn't in some stories due primarily to the 'heist type angle of storytelling that a Prison Break isn't far off of.

Spoilers below.... been warned!

My only complaint as to the narrative was Yun's sudden appearance in the ending.  I don't think we needed it in this particular book.  The story was all about Kyoshi and her journey from vengeance fueled teen to budding Avatar.... and Yun slipped in to steal her thunder at the end.  I mean, if anyone deserved to kill the guy it WAS Yun so from THAT narrative arc it makes sense, but I feel like they could have held it off for the next book to give Kyoshi a more complete arc here.

How cool would it have been for the conclusion of Kyoshi's 'vengeance' to be in showing Jianshu up by not allowing him to kill all those people and swiping back her girlfriend right under his nose WITHOUT having to become what he desperately wants her to become?  Her vengeance could simply have been her looking in his face and proving to him that she has no reason to be afraid of him anymore... Instead we get a Deus ex Machina spirit zombie? Yun whom will have to be dealt with in the sequel anyway (so why not have left him and Jianshu's death for that?)
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2019 01:27 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: Sep 08, 2019 02:42 pm »

Spoilers

This was about driving through the point with the whole "decisions and consequences" deal the Immortal Assassin Sifu was teaching to Kyoshi. I think it was telegraphed pretty well through the book that this would happen.
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« Reply #72 on: Sep 08, 2019 03:09 pm »

I don’t mind Yun’s sudden appearance at the end. So as long as it’s revealed that he has a newfound appreciation for human flesh in the next installment, I’m good...I’m good...
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« Reply #73 on: Sep 08, 2019 05:02 pm »

How cool would it have been for the conclusion of Kyoshi's 'vengeance' to be in showing Jianshu up by not allowing him to kill all those people and swiping back her girlfriend right under his nose WITHOUT having to become what he desperately wants her to become?  Her vengeance could simply have been her looking in his face and proving to him that she has no reason to be afraid of him anymore...

I think the book absolutely couldn't do that, because that would make the ending completely hollow given what we know Kyoshi does with Chin and advocates for Aang and Ozai. There would be no triumph, no satisfaction. Instead we would see the culmination of a Kyoshi who will be destroyed in future years and be remade into something darker and perhaps more like Jianzhu. It would position her fate as making compromise after compromise until either dying or going straight off the slippery slope- or both.

It would be like the ending of Star Wars: Phantom Menace, a celebration of a child who defeated some petty evil, who we know will one day become Darth Vader and slaughter all that is good in the universe. And the prequel trilogy is meant to be a tragedy, which I'm hoping Kyoshi's life won't be.

I definitely prefer that Kyoshi was left unfulfilled and without answers. Happy endings that affirm life-honoring ideals are nice, but Kyoshi's story could never be that. Leave those to Aang.


I don’t mind Yun’s sudden appearance at the end. So as long as it’s revealed that he has a newfound appreciation for human flesh in the next installment, I’m good...I’m good...

This is starting to sound like a fixation. Cheesy


This book didn't strike me as anything notably dark.

I dunno but this book has an uncomfortable amount of misery, unfulfillment, shame, humiliation, failure, and grief.

...I think we read two different books. Like, what are you comparing this to? What other fantasy do you read/follow?
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2019 05:03 pm by Loopy » Logged

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« Reply #74 on: Sep 09, 2019 07:48 am »

This book didn't strike me as anything notably dark.

I dunno but this book has an uncomfortable amount of misery, unfulfillment, shame, humiliation, failure, and grief.

...I think we read two different books. Like, what are you comparing this to? What other fantasy do you read/follow?

I could compare it to essentially anything, even the Malazan Series is more upbeat than The Rise of Kyoshi, but my real comparison would be with The Cleric Quintet due to the similarities of plot and both being written for a well-developed popular universe. The Cleric Quintet does have its own share of dark and depressing themes but those are all big deal, not just another boring day in Yokoya.
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Keeper of Suki's firebending ancestry, the Kyoshi Warrior dojo, the love potion made from rainbows and sunsets and the mecha tanks.

My fanficions.

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