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Author Topic: New Novel -The Rise of Kyoshi - June 2019  (Read 6534 times)
Loopy
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« Reply #100 on: Oct 17, 2019 06:15 pm »

So seriously, in the most respectful manner I feel I can possibly respond to you on this one in particular, how about you hop right off my back with stuff like this?  If all you've got to offer is a sentence of condescending nonsense espousing the topic you'd rather I have been discussing with somebody who ISN'T EVEN YOU, just say nothing instead.

If you don't want other people jumping into a conversation, shouldn't you be conducting it via PM and not one of the public boards? Tongue


My initiating statement on the matter, I feel, was pretty clear I was speaking opinion borne of observation.  I provided no evidence because I've not done any sort of intensive research into it nor do I intend to, haven't got time for it.  Do you?  I don't know a single human being who has the time to do that sort of thing for a spat on a forum either.  You want peer reviewed evidence for or against you'll have to do it yourself.  But if it makes you feel better, for anybody who might casually pass over this, I acknowledge I've provided no specific evidence beyond idle theorizing on my part based on what I personally have noticed as trends.  Idle theory was all it was ever meant to be.  Satisfied?

Not particularly. I'm not asking everyone to do a graduate-level research paper on everything they ever think about, but if you're going to be bring the matter up in a real discussion, then perhaps you should stop and think for a second if you've observed enough to even warrant making any kind of claim? I've noticed a lot of Hondas in parking lots when I try to find my car, but I'm never going to claim that there's something about Honda cars that speaks to some universal element of the human psyche.


I've not anywhere indicated that I don't.  I sort arcs into genres and formulas when they appear to be leaning into a genre or formula?  Don't like that?  Sue me, I'll warm up the shredder. 

Since genre's and formulas EXIST they are a perfectly valid and useful categorical toolset to use in quick form conversation.

I continually get the impression that you pick out a few words in my posts, form some vague impression of what I'm saying that gets you angry, and then you immediately start typing without checking if I've said anything like what you think.

Of course genres and formulas exist. I make deliberate use of them in my own writing, in order to play to (and sometimes mess with) audience expectation.

I'm saying you put both the Kyoshi book and Mistborn into the wrong genres before finishing them, and then you've been criticizing them based on the mis-sorting without looking back to see if you really did get the genres right. And when I've provided textual evidence that you got the Kyoshi book genre's wrong, you've mainly been responding that it's the book's fault for setting up your expectations. Which is begging the question.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #101 on: Oct 18, 2019 02:18 pm »

If you don't want other people jumping into a conversation, shouldn't you be conducting it via PM and not one of the public boards? Tongue

I don't mind someone popping in to provide their own opinions about something I've been talking about with someone else, I only mind it when they do so as smugly as possible whilst they drop casual reprimands and criticisms of the way I was discussing that thing with thinly veiled contempt... I suppose more particularly since you apparently thought I should be discussing something else than what I was discussing.

Quote
Not particularly. I'm not asking everyone to do a graduate-level research paper on everything they ever think about, but if you're going to be bring the matter up in a real discussion, then perhaps you should stop and think for a second if you've observed enough to even warrant making any kind of claim? I've noticed a lot of Hondas in parking lots when I try to find my car, but I'm never going to claim that there's something about Honda cars that speaks to some universal element of the human psyche.

Somehow I think that's a bit of a simplification.  While I obviously can't know what parking lots you frequent I doubt you see as many of them in relation to other vehicles within the same parking lots as you do genre stories and sets of trilogies within the 'parking lot' of literature.  Volume to sample size matters... but I mean... if there really ARE a ridiculous number of Hondas in your area there probably IS a reason?  It doesn't mean you have to bother looking for it, but noticing the trend isn't a crime.


Quote
I continually get the impression that you pick out a few words in my posts, form some vague impression of what I'm saying that gets you angry, and then you immediately start typing without checking if I've said anything like what you think.

Of course genres and formulas exist. I make deliberate use of them in my own writing, in order to play to (and sometimes mess with) audience expectation.

I'm saying you put both the Kyoshi book and Mistborn into the wrong genres before finishing them, and then you've been criticizing them based on the mis-sorting without looking back to see if you really did get the genres right. And when I've provided textual evidence that you got the Kyoshi book genre's wrong, you've mainly been responding that it's the book's fault for setting up your expectations. Which is begging the question.

I'm saying I noted the formula of those genres within those books early on I therefore noted that they went incomplete.  You've provided nothing like textual evidence that I've got anything wrong?  All you've done is provide textual evidence that the book can and may have MULTIPLE arcs (Something I never discounted anyway).  It IS a books fault for setting up expectations it doesn't fulfill.  That doesn't mean it necessarily was WRONG to do so if 'subverting' the expectation was the point (though oft 'subversion' is pretty short form for 'lazy/couldn't figure it out') but if you set something up and don't pay it off, than its your fault for not paying it off.  

We're talking circles.  "I thought Yun was a lazy inclusion > You thought Yun was a bad end to what you perceive as a revenge arc! > No I never I never said that I said I thought Yun was a lazy inclusion > I'm not talking about Yun, I'm talking about your fundamental beliefs about how genres work in fiction! > I'm not, I'm talking about how I thought Yun was a lazy inclusion > Whose talking a bout Yun? > I am! > We're talking about Revenge Genres and how you miscategorized the book!

You're spending a lot of time trying to analyze me over something I never intended to argue about, so you've got no useful anecdotal or documented evidence to form a complete picture and therefore imagine inconsistencies and contradictions when we both get confused because we aren't talking about the same things.  STOP analyzing me, I didn't ask you to, you're not on the clock.

We could have had most of this exact same confused circle jerk politely and without 'anger' as well.  The only reason there's any anger is because I asked you politely to drop the condescending side comments, and you politely refused and continued to do so.  Don't want a mildly hostile conversation, than don't be mildly hostile in conversation.  It helps you make arguments and convince others better as well since people are more likely to listen to you if they don't detect that you're hiding an underlining of contempt for them.  It's easy to slip up, I'm guilty of being an accidental jerk from time to time, but when someone asks me to stop talking at them them like they and their ideas are garbage I stop doing that.  You can challenge people's ideas without a high horse.
« Last Edit: Oct 18, 2019 02:21 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #102 on: Oct 18, 2019 07:40 pm »

Locked because the thread is derailing.

Discuss about the book RESPECTFULLY.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #103 on: Oct 29, 2019 06:29 am »

Unlocked. Please keep things civil and respectful.



Finally got my hands on the book, I am quite impressed. It balances the story, a bit of romance, grimdark, grief, and humour pretty well. I was quite amused how the other characters except Kyoshi were BATHE IN THEIR BLOOD at first until Kyoshi made her first kill in the name of justice.

The author certainly did his homework and I find the Chinese names used for some characters and towns to be quite befitting.

I only wished the author delved more into Kyoshi's bending training but her progress is... off-screen. Sure we have one short scene of her airbending for the first time but I wished there were more pages dedicated to how she learned to earthbend smaller objects and also waterbending.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
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