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Author Topic: New Novel -The Rise of Kyoshi - June 2019  (Read 787 times)
Gundleer
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« on: Aug 29, 2018 02:27 pm »

Two new novels announced.

https://ew.com/books/2018/08/29/avatar-the-last-airbender-novels/
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Loopy
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 29, 2018 07:59 pm »

I desperately hope we don't get 'BATHE IN THEIR BLOOD' Kyoshi. :|

Anyone read anything by the author?
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Uzuko
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 29, 2018 09:01 pm »

He's got one kindle book on Amazon thats a little over a 150 pages so he seems very new to publishing based on that information.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 29, 2018 09:50 pm »

I am still not sure why Kyoshi is liked in and out of the series. She allowed Chin to run rampant across the Earth Kingdom until he came to her part of the kingdom and then just split the land. An impressive display, but if he just moved would she have allowed him to keep the lands he had ruthlessly conquered seeing as she did nothing to stop him beforehand? Then there was the whole issue with the Earth King. She had a chance to make the Earth King act like the leaders of the other nations, ie actually play an active role in the kingdom as opposed to holing up in a palace. I get that what the Dai Li became wasn’t her intention, but trying to maintain the “cultural heritage” would obviously ensure that things would stay the same.
« Last Edit: Aug 30, 2018 10:25 am by luvavatar » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 30, 2018 08:11 am »

I think when we consider Kiyoshi's story we have to consider the medium it was told through. In the original series airing, means and standards wouldn't have allowed Kiyoshi to kill Chin on tv, even in self defense. That is something the author is going to have to deal with. Personally, I always thought that Chin tried to take over the Earth Kingdom while Kiyoshi was in her Avatar training. That would be the best explanation for why she didn't stop him.

In all honesty I'm worried how Mike and Bryan's toxic pacifism could bleed into the series more than anything else.
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Urmom666
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 30, 2018 11:59 am »

A full on novel, eh? I’m wondering if we’ll go down the Star Wars EU route where characters in the books and comics become OP to ridiculous magnitudes
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Loopy
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 30, 2018 05:49 pm »

I am still not sure why Kyoshi is liked in and out of the series. She allowed Chin to run rampant across the Earth Kingdom until he came to her part of the kingdom and then just split the land. An impressive display, but if he just moved would she have allowed him to keep the lands he had ruthlessly conquered seeing as she did nothing to stop him beforehand?

You're not looking at this from a Martial Arts Fiction standpoint. Chin was never going to move; he was always destined to die trying to defy her because his pride and greed are what killed him. Likewise, that's why Kyoshi takes credit. Chin was going to die as soon as she decided to stand against him.

But yes, I think she would have let him keep the EK if he hadn't challenged her. She has no formal power in the Earth Kingdom. Chin was by all accounts an awful man, but we saw that the Earth King in her time was also awful. The Avatar has no business getting involved in scrambles for a crown. The Avatar is the Bridge Between Worlds. She pushed back when Chin sought to make the Avatar subordinate to him, which could not be allowed if Kyoshi and all subsequent Avatars wanted to do their job.

Then there was the whole issue with the Earth King. She had a chance to make the Earth King act like the leaders of the other nations, ie actually play an active role in the kingdom as opposed to holing up in a palace. I get that what the Dai Li became wasn’t her intention, but trying to maintain the “cultural heritage” would obviously ensure that things would stay the same.

The short says that the "cultural heritage" is actual art and architectural pieces being destroyed in riots. That's what the Dai Li were supposed to protect, not a culture of oppression.

Anyway, once again, it's not the Avatar's business to judge a ruler and oust him if she doesn't like him. "Justice" is nowhere in the Avatar's job description. Kyoshi negotiated a settlement between the peasants and the King that satisfied the peasants' demands, which was very nice of her.



In all honesty I'm worried how Mike and Bryan's toxic pacifism could bleed into the series more than anything else.

Is this really a thing or are you salty about how AtLA ended? Tongue



A full on novel, eh? I’m wondering if we’ll go down the Star Wars EU route where characters in the books and comics become OP to ridiculous magnitudes

Well, the comics haven't really engaged in power creep (they've just mangled the martial arts roots of Bending itself), so I don't see why novels would do any worse.
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 30, 2018 07:44 pm »

It’s news to me that Avatars aren’t supposed to intervene when injustices are running rampant. Roku, Aang and Korra all intervened in matters that were not just spiritual. Her duty as the Avatar is to ensure peace and justice as well as be a bridge between the spirits and humanity. Chin wasn’t even conquering in a fair manner, he was literally killing those who surrendered and bowed before him (at least it was implied that he killed or grievously injured the man that was kneeling before him). Kyoshi is given too many accolades inside and outside of the show in my opinion.
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Uzuko
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 30, 2018 08:45 pm »

In all honesty I'm worried how Mike and Bryan's toxic pacifism could bleed into the series more than anything else.

Is this really a thing or are you salty about how AtLA ended? Tongue

I actually liked the way Avatar the Last Airbender. ATLA ended with Aang choosing how he would be the avatar, the spirit bending just being the plot device that enabled that choice. The toxic pacifism came from LOK.
« Last Edit: Aug 30, 2018 09:12 pm by Uzuko » Logged
Loopy
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 31, 2018 05:58 pm »

It’s news to me that Avatars aren’t supposed to intervene when injustices are running rampant. Roku, Aang and Korra all intervened in matters that were not just spiritual. Her duty as the Avatar is to ensure peace and justice as well as be a bridge between the spirits and humanity.

It's news to me that injustice has anything to do with the Avatar. Otherwise, why didn't any Avatar do anything about Ba Sing Se's social inequality? Why wasn't either Aang or Korra prepared for active participation in world politics? Why was Aang's lack of 'Avatar training' only brought up when he needed to deal with Hei Bai?

Moreover, what is "injustice?" Is there some kind of global law that determines when an Avatar is supposed to act? Is the world governed by the Avatars? If the Avatar thinks a national leader is a little too hands-off, is the Avatar actually supposed to remove that leader from power or exert some kind of control? Is that a good thing for the world?

Notice how Roku didn't remove Sozin from power over the colonies. He left Sozin alive after trying to kill him as a concession to their friendship, but Roku didn't say anything about having the authority to dethrone Sozin.

Likewise, Korra couldn't even do anything about Tarrlock or Raiko, despite them both undermining her authority as Avatar. Raiko could even banish her from his city for something that was his fault!

The Avatar has no authority over justice. QED The Avatar maintains the balance of the world, keeping the four nations from destroying each other, and protecting humans and spirits from each other.



I actually liked the way Avatar the Last Airbender. ATLA ended with Aang choosing how he would be the avatar, the spirit bending just being the plot device that enabled that choice. The toxic pacifism came from LOK.

Wow, I was expecting to hear about an incident on their Tumblr or something. I thought LoK was kind of anti-pacifist. Do you mind expanding on this thought, maybe in another thread?
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Uzuko
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 31, 2018 08:14 pm »

There is so much I want to talk about the Toxic Pacifism, from the inaction of all the characters in the fourth season to Zaheer's entire philosphy and how it ultimately makes the Air Nation an unsustainable culture. I've mentioned it in various threads across the board, but there hasn't been central one. 
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2018 08:42 pm by Uzuko » Logged
luvavatar
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 31, 2018 10:34 pm »

It’s news to me that Avatars aren’t supposed to intervene when injustices are running rampant. Roku, Aang and Korra all intervened in matters that were not just spiritual. Her duty as the Avatar is to ensure peace and justice as well as be a bridge between the spirits and humanity.

It's news to me that injustice has anything to do with the Avatar. Otherwise, why didn't any Avatar do anything about Ba Sing Se's social inequality? Why wasn't either Aang or Korra prepared for active participation in world politics? Why was Aang's lack of 'Avatar training' only brought up when he needed to deal with Hei Bai?

Moreover, what is "injustice?" Is there some kind of global law that determines when an Avatar is supposed to act? Is the world governed by the Avatars? If the Avatar thinks a national leader is a little too hands-off, is the Avatar actually supposed to remove that leader from power or exert some kind of control? Is that a good thing for the world?

Notice how Roku didn't remove Sozin from power over the colonies. He left Sozin alive after trying to kill him as a concession to their friendship, but Roku didn't say anything about having the authority to dethrone Sozin.

Likewise, Korra couldn't even do anything about Tarrlock or Raiko, despite them both undermining her authority as Avatar. Raiko could even banish her from his city for something that was his fault!

The Avatar has no authority over justice. QED The Avatar maintains the balance of the world, keeping the four nations from destroying each other, and protecting humans and spirits from each other.

Roku DID threaten to end Sozin if he were to step out of line again and Kyoshi did say “How dare you defy your Avatar’”. These two instances kind of imply that the Avatar’s authority does supersede that of a monarch. Their actions had to be more than regarding the spirits or preventing nations from attacking one another. I just find it hard to believe that Kyoshi’s hands would be tied in regarding a vicious warlord cruelly taking over the Earth Kingdom.
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 01, 2018 12:24 am »

Stay on topic and speculate about the novel.



I wonder if it would cover Kyoshi's childhood and whether she was teased for her height and big feet.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 01, 2018 07:43 am »

As a huge Kyoshi fanboy, I'm happy that we will get something with her.

Now I only have to hope that this will be good Smiley.

Sheeeesh... after the Kyoshi Warrior "origin story" in that free comic I don't expect much, especially since my standards are in the sky when it comes to Kyoshi and the Kyoshi Warriors, and these characters are really close to my heart. Like, I will cry if Kyoshi gets Ursa'd.
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longman83
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 01, 2018 12:53 pm »

https://ew.com/books/2018/08/29/avatar-the-last-airbender-novels/
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EW can exclusively announce that Nickelodeon has partnered with Abrams Children’s Books for a new series of YA novels set in the universe of The Last Airbender, and centered on Avatar Kyoshi, the longest-living human Avatar in history at over 230 years old, whom fans know very little about.

Sorry folks, but can a children's novel do justice to the story of Avatar Kyoshi's life, in particular the implied complexities surrounding the Earth Kingdom of her time as already discussed? The Kyoshi Warrior origin story may be a harbinger of things to come.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 01, 2018 03:28 pm »

The Kyoshi Warrior origin story may be a harbinger of things to come.

To be honest, that story was weird, and I have this feeling that it did not cover the truth. There were... particularities implying that Suki was working with her own story there.
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Loopy
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 01, 2018 07:21 pm »

These two instances kind of imply that the Avatar’s authority does supersede that of a monarch.

I never said otherwise. You're changing you're argument. You have to go back and look on what concerns those Avatars were exercising their authority. In the one case, Roku was telling Sozin not to conquer the world, which I just said the Avatar has authority over. In the other case, Kyoshi was telling the Earth King that he didn't get to order her around as one of his soldiers.


Their actions had to be more than regarding the spirits or preventing nations from attacking one another. I just find it hard to believe that Kyoshi’s hands would be tied in regarding a vicious warlord cruelly taking over the Earth Kingdom.

Her hands weren't tied, and I never said otherwise. Anyone in the entire world could have stepped forward and challenged Chin at any time. As Avatar, Kyoshi had the power to go and assassinate him whenever she wanted. But, as you might have noticed in AtLA, there's a thought that just killing a bad guy isn't enough to destroy what they represent, that they need to be taken down in a certain way to show the triumph of a certain cause or idea as well.

Kyoshi chose a certain time and place to challenge Chin. And it's not hard to figure out what she was saying with that choice.


Sorry folks, but can a children's novel do justice to the story of Avatar Kyoshi's life, in particular the implied complexities surrounding the Earth Kingdom of her time as already discussed?

Yes.

When was the last time you checked the YA market? Yeah, some of them are trite junk for babies, but there's also some great stuff that's doing better than supposedly 'adult' novels. It's like how Pixar movies are on average better than Hollywood's adult output.



The Kyoshi Warrior origin story may be a harbinger of things to come.

To be honest, that story was weird, and I have this feeling that it did not cover the truth. There were... particularities implying that Suki was working with her own story there.

There was just Suki drawn into the flashback visuals, if that was meant to be Suki. That's the one weird thing. Tongue I'm not arguing that someone won't come along and retcon Gene Yang's story, now that he's gone from the franchise, but do you really think it wasn't intended to be the general story of how the Kyoshi Warriors came about? I'm expecting some more detail to be added to the account, but not a major change.

It's time to step back from the characters, dude. If a comic comes along and confirms that Mai's dad has no engineering experience, I'm going to have shrug my shoulders and move on with my headcanons. Or keep writing AU's.
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Uzuko
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 01, 2018 08:50 pm »

Her hands weren't tied, and I never said otherwise. Anyone in the entire world could have stepped forward and challenged Chin at any time. As Avatar, Kyoshi had the power to go and assassinate him whenever she wanted. But, as you might have noticed in AtLA, there's a thought that just killing a bad guy isn't enough to destroy what they represent, that they need to be taken down in a certain way to show the triumph of a certain cause or idea as well.

Kyoshi chose a certain time and place to challenge Chin. And it's not hard to figure out what she was saying with that choice.

There are plenty reasons why Kiyoshi didn't take down Chin during his rise to power. The simplest and best explination would be that Chin came into power while Kiyoshi was away during her Avatar training.
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 02, 2018 03:31 am »

do you really think it wasn't intended to be the general story of how the Kyoshi Warriors came about?

I don't, but it wouldn't stop me from feeling disappointed if they proved me right Cheesy.

It's time to step back from the characters, dude.

I absolutely hate getting less than I expect. It isn't even about invalidating my headcanon, tho I will shed my crocodile tears there, just ruining something I love with mediocrity.
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« Reply #19 on: Sep 02, 2018 05:50 pm »

Sorry folks, but can a children's novel do justice to the story of Avatar Kyoshi's life, in particular the implied complexities surrounding the Earth Kingdom of her time as already discussed?

Yes.

When was the last time you checked the YA market? Yeah, some of them are trite junk for babies, but there's also some great stuff that's doing better than supposedly 'adult' novels. It's like how Pixar movies are on average better than Hollywood's adult output.

Admittedly, I can't remember  Cheesy. Good point with Pixar, but for me the AtLA comics do not set a convincing precedent. We'll see.



Her hands weren't tied, and I never said otherwise. Anyone in the entire world could have stepped forward and challenged Chin at any time. As Avatar, Kyoshi had the power to go and assassinate him whenever she wanted. But, as you might have noticed in AtLA, there's a thought that just killing a bad guy isn't enough to destroy what they represent, that they need to be taken down in a certain way to show the triumph of a certain cause or idea as well.

Kyoshi chose a certain time and place to challenge Chin. And it's not hard to figure out what she was saying with that choice.

There are plenty reasons why Kiyoshi didn't take down Chin during his rise to power. The simplest and best explination would be that Chin came into power while Kiyoshi was away during her Avatar training.

I've started a separate thread for this topic.
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #20 on: Sep 02, 2018 08:18 pm »

I'm expecting we find out how exactly Kyoshi lived for two centuries.
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« Reply #21 on: Sep 05, 2018 07:40 pm »

Good point with Pixar, but for me the AtLA comics do not set a convincing precedent. We'll see.

Yeah, that's fair. But I'm trying to be positive, with all the new stuff and creative teams.


There are plenty reasons why Kiyoshi didn't take down Chin during his rise to power. The simplest and best explination would be that Chin came into power while Kiyoshi was away during her Avatar training.

I'm not personally a fan of Kyoshi being in training during Chin's conquering, as it makes the confrontation a last-ditch effort, and the scene as we saw in the cartoon just didn't have that feeling. But lots of people seem to like it, so I'm prepared for it.

Just as long as everything we know about Kyoshi isn't crammed into her first 48 hours on the job, like the Star Wars Solo movie.
« Last Edit: Sep 05, 2018 07:42 pm by Loopy » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: Sep 09, 2018 04:06 am »

Sorry folks, but can a children's novel do justice to the story of Avatar Kyoshi's life, in particular the implied complexities surrounding the Earth Kingdom of her time as already discussed? The Kyoshi Warrior origin story may be a harbinger of things to come.

I know Loopy already mentioned this, but it's hard for me not to jump in and defend YA. There are plenty of YA books covering complex topics. One recent, popular example is The Hate U Give, which deals with racism (the main character witnesses her friend being shot by a police officer and the book then follows the aftermath) and was also made into a movie. YA authors in general tend to be pretty big advocates of not talking down to teenagers and being willing to handle big ideas in their books. There's no reason this would have to be any different.

The most defining feature of YA is that it focuses on a teenage protagonist though. That's pretty much the only rule for something being defined as YA, since it encompasses so many different genres (from fantasy to contemporary), so my best guess is that we'll be seeing a teenaged Kyoshi if that's how this is being marketed.
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