AvatarSpirit.Net
Mar 26, 2017 10:38 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
ASN Mainsite: AvatarSpirit.net
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Poll
Question: What did Azula meant by saying "How touching" in your opinion?
I'll have to think on it - 0 (0%)
I have no idea - 0 (0%)
She felt it was actually touching to her - 0 (0%)
She was being sarcastic - 4 (66.7%)
She was mocking Zuko - 2 (33.3%)
Total Voters: 6

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Was Azula being a stealth mentor to Zuko  (Read 837 times)
Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« on: Aug 25, 2016 03:04 pm »

Greetings Everyone! I'm new here. Smiley

Now I have an interesting topic to discuss with you all that I've been wondering about ever since I read it on tvtropes.org. What if Azula was being a stealth mentor to Zuko at the end of Smoke and Shadow? Here's what is says on tvtropes.org, Stealth Mentor:  Implied to be what Azula was being to Zuko all along, helping him be a better Fire Lord through a reverse psychology act of claiming she's trying to make him more ruthless, which has the opposite effect and she seems pleased with this.

Azula's last words before disappearing were "How touching". Did she, in her own way, felt that Zuko's speech was "touching" to her? Azula appeared to be smiling before she disappeared but why would she be smiling if her plan to make Zuko like her was failing?

There is one thing I think we can all agree on and that is Smoke and Shadow left us all with more questions than answers.
« Last Edit: Aug 25, 2016 04:14 pm by Avatar Symbolism Fan » Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31119


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #1 on: Aug 25, 2016 05:34 pm »

Welcome!

I think the idea of Azula as a Stealth Mentor is contradictory. If she's really teaching Zuko to rule with love instead of fear, but is terrorizing him to show him the downside of trying to rule through fear, then her entire strategy is to use fear instead of love to improve her brother. So either Azula is self-sabotaging, or she's spectacularly lacking in self-awareness. Cheesy
Logged

Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #2 on: Aug 25, 2016 05:41 pm »

Welcome!

I think the idea of Azula as a Stealth Mentor is contradictory. If she's really teaching Zuko to rule with love instead of fear, but is terrorizing him to show him the downside of trying to rule through fear, then her entire strategy is to use fear instead of love to improve her brother. So either Azula is self-sabotaging, or she's spectacularly lacking in self-awareness. Cheesy
Thanks for the welcome!
I think she possibly wants him rule with fear and love If that makes since.
« Last Edit: Aug 25, 2016 05:47 pm by Avatar Symbolism Fan » Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31119


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #3 on: Aug 25, 2016 05:53 pm »

Trying to make him more complete, you mean? He thinks he can rule with love but needs to also have fear in his toolbox?

I actually think he was already there, as of Smoke & Shadows. He's usually fair, but when things get crazy he starts having soldier barge into homes and arrest people for sedition. Azula wouldn't have to teach him how to be that way. If anything, she scared him from going back to using fear when it's appropriate.

I should probably explain my view of Azula in Smoke & Shadows. I think the art very deliberately gave her the "crazy eyes" she had in the cartoon's finale and her more unhinged moments in The Search, so whatever Azula is doing or thinks she's doing, she's off her rocker and not perceiving reality properly. So maybe she's trying to be a Stealth Mentor to Zuko, but she's either doing it wrong and/or trying to teach him stuff he already knows.

But if we posit that Azula is indeed crazy and wrong, then it's probably simpler to just stick with the story as it is on the page and go with her trying to teach Zuko to be just like her, even though it led to her own downfall more than once already.
Logged

Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #4 on: Sep 02, 2016 08:16 am »

Anyone else feel Azula was genuinely trying to help Zuko be a better firelord? Sure, there isn't a lot of evidence to support it but Azula was smiling while listening to Zuko's speech. She does have a very intense look though but still, why would she be smiling if her plan to make Zuko like her wasn't working?
Logged
NeeNee
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 12377


We will not be quiet.


« Reply #5 on: Sep 02, 2016 10:24 am »

I think she's genuinely trying to help Zuko be a better firelord, but I also think she believes that a good firelord is a ruthless firelord.

So yeah, she's trying to help from her POV, but her look on reality is so twisted that it ends up doing more harm than good.
Logged

Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31119


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #6 on: Sep 02, 2016 05:44 pm »

I'm not clear what the connection is between Azula smiling and her trying to make Zuko a "better" Fire Lord. The exact text of the story is what NeeNee said, that she wants to make Zuko more ruthless to match her idea of a good Fire Lord, as exemplified by Ozai and her own habits. That doesn't require her to be secretly teaching him the opposite of what she claimed to be teaching him.
Logged

Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #7 on: Sep 02, 2016 08:58 pm »

It's not that it proves it by any means but I believe they drew that small smile so that the fans could think about an extra possibility. Like I said, why would she be smiling if here plan wasn't working on Zuko. Just because that's the exact text doesn't mean that's what it really means. The answer may never be clear and that's most likely what the writers want.
It's just a theory and my favorite headcanon in Avatar that very well be possible.
« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2016 09:16 pm by Avatar Symbolism Fan » Logged
fireywaters
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 4872


Peace on Avatar, before peace in real life


« Reply #8 on: Sep 03, 2016 06:34 am »

I think she is like Sasuke the end of the Naruto series, with Zuko being Naruto and Azula being Sasuke, take that information with what you will.
Logged

Peace between the Fire Nation and the other nations, before peace in our world
NeeNee
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 12377


We will not be quiet.


« Reply #9 on: Sep 03, 2016 08:15 am »

It's not that it proves it by any means but I believe they drew that small smile so that the fans could think about an extra possibility. Like I said, why would she be smiling if here plan wasn't working on Zuko. Just because that's the exact text doesn't mean that's what it really means. The answer may never be clear and that's most likely what the writers want.
It's just a theory and my favorite headcanon in Avatar that very well be possible.

Who says it's not working? Zuko did some (slightly more) ruthless things, didn't he?
Logged

doratchi
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 78


« Reply #10 on: Sep 03, 2016 02:17 pm »

Come on guys its Azula! She doesn't really care from Zuko.
I 100% sure that she accepted that she would never be a fire lord, and just want to turn Zuko to be like her and Ozai.
That's what she meant by saying:
Deep down inside, you're still one of us. You can deny it for a little while, but eventually, you will become just like me ... and then, in a sense, I'll be Fire Lord again.

I hope that you are satisfied now
Logged
Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #11 on: Sep 03, 2016 02:22 pm »

I do have to disagree with you there doratchi. I feel that it's very possible that Azula was trying to make Zuko a better firelord and disappeared once she succeeded. Go to tvtropes.org and maybe Azula fans on tumblr and maybe it might make you think about a different possibility.

Tvtropes calls her appearance in Smoke and Shadow an hazy feel turn which I very much agree with that.
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2016 02:28 pm by Avatar Symbolism Fan » Logged
doratchi
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 78


« Reply #12 on: Sep 03, 2016 02:29 pm »

I do have to disagree with you there doratchi. I feel that it's very possible that Azula was trying to make Zuko a better firelord and disappeared once she succeeded. Go to tvtropes.org and maybe Azula fans on tumblr and maybe it might make you think about a different possibility.

Tvtropes calls her appearance in Smoke and Shadow an hazy feel turn which I very much agree with.
Maybe you are right, we still cant know thing clearly.
I think that we may get few panels about this in North and South- maybe in the beggining, when Aang packs to the South pole, or in part 3 when Zuko goes to the south pole.
Logged
Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #13 on: Sep 03, 2016 02:39 pm »

And I don't believe Azula will really ever redeem herself but I believe she did help Zuko (in her own way) to be a better fire lord due to her realizing she also loved Zuko when her told her he'll always see her as his sister.

Azula actions may never be clear and I would like it to stay that way.
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2016 02:43 pm by Avatar Symbolism Fan » Logged
doratchi
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 78


« Reply #14 on: Sep 03, 2016 03:15 pm »

And I don't believe Azula will really ever redeem herself but I believe she did help Zuko (in her own way) to be a better fire lord due to her realizing she also loved Zuko when her told her he'll always see her as his sister.

Azula actions may never be clear and I would like it to stay that way.
You are right...right now Im worry about more Kataang and sokka than the fire nation
Logged
Avatar Symbolism Fan
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #15 on: Sep 03, 2016 03:37 pm »

Well then I take it you're very excited about North and South? Have you seen the previews of it yet?

I think it going to kind of hint at the events of Korra season 2.
Logged
doratchi
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 78


« Reply #16 on: Sep 03, 2016 11:23 pm »

Well then I take it you're very excited about North and South? Have you seen the previews of it yet?

I think it going to kind of hint at the events of Korra season 2.
I am, I already saw the previews and the descreptions, and I was afraid at first that it would be excactly the same as Korra season 2 but now I can see that it will be different
Logged
Nikkel
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 492


King of kings, monster of monsters.


« Reply #17 on: Mar 01, 2017 11:28 am »

I don't think Azula personally cares to make Zuko a "better" Fire Lord. She's going to use everything at her disposal to sabotage him, just as she always has. She knows his weaknesses, and how when he is afraid, he becomes impulsive. She's going to exploit what she can and bring all of his ugliness into the public eye. Zuko totes himself as a compassionate ruler, claiming an era of "love and peace", and Azula's wordlessly there to point out the hypocrisy.

I actually think he was already there, as of Smoke & Shadows. He's usually fair, but when things get crazy he starts having soldier barge into homes and arrest people for sedition. Azula wouldn't have to teach him how to be that way. If anything, she scared him from going back to using fear when it's appropriate.

^ Loopy's point emphasizes this.

I also think that with the "old rulers" of the Fire Nation dead or locked away (Ozai, Zhao, Azulon, Sozin), Azula is the one that escaped. She stands as a reminder to Zuko what can happen if he misuses or abuses his power as Fire Lord, or how quickly the Fire Nation can revert back to being ruthless. She's his "shadow"... Zuko can't always see her because she's behind him, but he knows she's there.
Logged

Keeper of Urzai, Ursa's Survival, and Azula's Lies + Psychotic Breakdown
Tamerlan Pahlavi
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 9088


Selam, Sahib


« Reply #18 on: Mar 03, 2017 11:46 am »

I would actually have to see that screenshot/scene in order to judge it. Azula smiles in every episode she appears but only very few of those smiles are NOT expressions of sadism and/or insanity. The smile she gave to Chan after she kissed him or the smiles she gave to Ty Lee and Mai after meeting them for the first time in the series are some of those few exceptions.

Some smiles are involuntary though, she was most likely amused or bewildered at Zuko claiming to love her and thought "what a fool".
Logged

All my written material is free of any and all copyright, it can be used freely for everyone's inspiration
Cybersun
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 83



« Reply #19 on: Mar 15, 2017 09:43 pm »

Wait. Wasn't the whole point of the search was for Azula to realize that you shouldn't rule through fear and make amends with her mother. But after reading smoke and shadow none of those things happened.
Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31119


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #20 on: Mar 17, 2017 06:28 pm »

I don't know what the point of The Search was for Azula. She was in denial about her loss for most of it, hallucinating that Ursa had somehow sabotaged her, but then after finding out the truth about Ursa's whereabouts, she simply ran away. My impression there was that she had finally accepted the proof that her failures had been her own, and not something she could blame on others in the form of hallucination!Ursa, but S&S has her still wanting to prove that Fear Trumps Love.

So yeah, our impressions of her ending in The Search were a little different (not surprising given its ambiguity and focus on Zuzu), but either way S&S is walking her back from the interesting places she could have gone.
Logged

Old School
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 7704



« Reply #21 on: Mar 18, 2017 01:49 pm »

It could just be that Azula is now 100% self aware, and rather than staging one sure-to-be-doomed last stand, she's embracing her role as Episodic Villain of the Week.
Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 31119


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #22 on: Mar 18, 2017 02:01 pm »

In five years she'll be the new Deadpool.
Logged

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines LLC
MySQL | PHP | XHTML | CSS