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Author Topic: Would Zuko have any authority over the URN?  (Read 1905 times)
Niko
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« on: Apr 26, 2016 06:50 pm »

Does anyone have an Idea on how much power the founder of an entire nation, Zuko, would have over decision making and laws? Could he just swoop in and change things to his liking because he basically owns the place right? Zuko apparently is important enough to have a seat with rest of the world leaders but I'm confused on what exactly is his position in running the country or if he even has one anymore, could it all be out of his control now and he is just a figurehead?


Also this also makes me wonder does the Fire Nation like secretly run the URN, because I find it wierd how the FN prince is somehow the General. A ploy to gain more power.
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« Reply #1 on: Apr 26, 2016 07:10 pm »

Before President Raiko came along the council which governed the URN were appointed by the heads of their sovereign nation, so he would have had a considerable amount of power. Not enough to dictate on his own terms, but enough that he would have significant pull. However it seemed like the leaders of the other nations left the URN to its own devices.
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Loopy
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2016 03:48 pm »

I think the URN, before Raiko was elected, wasn't a nation. It was a territory administered and defended by Avatar equivalent of the United Nations. So the leaders were simply delegates, and the military forces were simply sections of the various nations' militaries that had been specifically tasked to the UR.

So I expect that Zuko the current Fire Lord could dictate orders to the delegate, and if the delegate refused to comply, Zuko the Fire Lord could recall the delegate and send another. Likewise, I think the Fire Lord could command the Fire Nation forces in the UR military to come back home, and while he or she'd have to face repercussions for violating the treaty that says there needs to be a contribution to the UR's defense, I think the UR Fire military would listen to the orders.

What's going on after Raiko's election, though, is much more open. It's possible that Iroh 2 was only still in the UR military because they were still transitioning to their own home grown forces, but it couldn't be accomplished as quickly as handing the delegate council's power over to Raiko. Did we get any mention of him in Book Balance? By then, he might have returned home in favor of a native UR officer.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016 03:50 pm by Loopy » Logged

shorewall
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2016 07:05 pm »

He was involved in the defense of RC from Kuvira, but the FN had pledged its forces to defend RC.  So who knows?  Smiley
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"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light."
Niko
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2016 08:27 pm »

Quote
He was involved in the defense of RC from Kuvira, but the FN had pledged its forces to defend RC.  So who knows?
Fire Nation? I don't recall seeing them at the party. Izumi told Reiko that she would help fortify the borders, not fight on the frontline. Great job she must've done too, Kuvira managed to bypass the fortified border without alerting anyone   Undecided

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Did we get any mention of him in Book Balance? By then, he might have returned home in favor of a native UR officer.
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shorewall
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2016 08:55 pm »

Iroh's thinking, "I don't want to die on this foreign soil!"  Cheesy

Maybe considering, "If we're going to die, there's something I've always wanted to tell you, Avatar Korra..."  Wink
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Ikkin
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2016 09:00 pm »

What's going on after Raiko's election, though, is much more open. It's possible that Iroh 2 was only still in the UR military because they were still transitioning to their own home grown forces, but it couldn't be accomplished as quickly as handing the delegate council's power over to Raiko. Did we get any mention of him in Book Balance? By then, he might have returned home in favor of a native UR officer.

As shown above, he's still involved with the UF even years after Raiko's election... though I've always liked the idea that his willingness to effectively commit treason in Book 2 (and Raiko's willingness to limit his response to "don't try that again") had a lot to do with the fact that the UF wasn't really a national military prior to Raiko's election.
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Niko
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016 04:17 am »

Iroh's thinking, "I don't want to die on this foreign soil!"  Cheesy

Maybe considering, "If we're going to die, there's something I've always wanted to tell you, Avatar Korra..."  Wink
"...Do you think I would have ever had a chance with Asami!?"
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shorewall
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016 07:44 am »

Iroh's thinking, "I don't want to die on this foreign soil!"  Cheesy

Maybe considering, "If we're going to die, there's something I've always wanted to tell you, Avatar Korra..."  Wink
"...Do you think I would have ever had a chance with Asami!?"

"We would have such beautiful children!"
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"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light."
Loopy
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2016 06:30 pm »

What's going on after Raiko's election, though, is much more open. It's possible that Iroh 2 was only still in the UR military because they were still transitioning to their own home grown forces, but it couldn't be accomplished as quickly as handing the delegate council's power over to Raiko. Did we get any mention of him in Book Balance? By then, he might have returned home in favor of a native UR officer.

As shown above, he's still involved with the UF even years after Raiko's election... though I've always liked the idea that his willingness to effectively commit treason in Book 2 (and Raiko's willingness to limit his response to "don't try that again") had a lot to do with the fact that the UF wasn't really a national military prior to Raiko's election.

Yeah, the chain of command was really unclear. Cheesy Raiko runs the military and the police. So, functionally, what's the difference between the two?
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shorewall
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016 07:19 pm »

There is no difference.  Raiko has removed the separation between law enforcement and the military, establishing martial law without anyone being the wiser.  Mako gets a clue and begins to investigate, and he has to get help from Iroh, who holds independent allegiance.  Lin is sent after Mako because he's getting too close, but then he tells her the extent of the treachery, and she lets him go and aids him.  Korrasami are off in the spirit world, and Bolin is off making movers in Zaofu while Varrick deals with his former booty call, Suyin.
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"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light."
Niko
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Bolin time!


« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2016 08:42 am »

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Varrick deals with his former booty call, Suyin.

Oooo! More than circus buddies eh?  Shocked
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shorewall
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2016 11:34 am »

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Varrick deals with his former booty call, Suyin.

Oooo! More than circus buddies eh?  Shocked


What do you think they were doing at Zaofu?  It also explains why Su got so mad at Kuvira.  

Now, whether Kuvira took Su's place in more ways than one...I'll let you decide.  Wink  I mean, Zhu Li was in Kuvira's bed that one time.  Cheesy
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"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light."
Niko
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Bolin time!


« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2016 02:47 pm »

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What do you think they were doing at Zaofu?  It also explains why Su got so mad at Kuvira. 
That's true but Varrick is a fool to choose Kuvira over Suyin Baefong  Angry
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2016 03:45 pm »

Suyin who would lock up all his innovations for her "utopian" city or Kuvira who will spread his creations over the continent and possibly the world? It would make more sense for him to choose the latter (at first).
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shorewall
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016 06:27 pm »

Suyin who would lock up all his innovations for her "utopian" city or Kuvira who will spread his creations over the continent and possibly the world? It would make more sense for him to choose the latter (at first).

It's also why Kuvira was so cross with Varrick when he started having second thoughts.  She had shared herself with him.  Bataar Jr. was a consolation prize.  Cheesy
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"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light."
Loopy
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016 06:32 pm »

Who says Varrick could keep up with Suyin's "ambitions?" Grin
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shorewall
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2016 04:18 pm »

Who says Varrick could keep up with Suyin's "ambitions?" Grin

I mean, I would have made the same choice, even in hindsight.  Cheesy
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"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light."
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