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Author Topic: The Legend of Korra : One Year Out  (Read 37394 times)
Kairok
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« Reply #50 on: Jan 03, 2016 07:26 pm »

^PLOOOT TWIIIISSST!
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Freedom153
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« Reply #51 on: Jan 03, 2016 08:18 pm »

Aaaand one year later, the posters are as crazy as ever. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. Tongue

One thing I haven't mentioned - I still don't understand their decision to make Katara so tired and subdued as an older person. It's like part of her died, way beyond outliving Aang by 21 years - or more likely, it was shaved off so she wouldn't detract too much attention from the new characters.

And then they go and have Toph still be Toph, and Zuko's partways between his younger "good" self and his uncle. Go figure.
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Ikkin
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« Reply #52 on: Jan 03, 2016 10:24 pm »

It turns out that Naga was Asami in a furry suit the whole time.

...huh, I suppose it is possible to make that one Steven Universe episode a more fitting parallel to the LoK finale after all.  XD
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« Reply #53 on: Jan 03, 2016 10:26 pm »

I still fault them for not having Team Avatar meet up in the storyline. I know that it may have seemed like overkill, but we really should've seen these old friends together one last time. We may see it in the comics, but as I've said before in regards to them "Too little, too late".
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Nausicaa
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« Reply #54 on: Jan 03, 2016 10:34 pm »

It turns out that Naga was Asami in a furry suit the whole time.

Korra: I've never had a girl friend to hang out with and talk to before, except for Naga.

Asami: Yeah, about that...

One thing I haven't mentioned - I still don't understand their decision to make Katara so tired and subdued as an older person. It's like part of her died, way beyond outliving Aang by 21 years - or more likely, it was shaved off so she wouldn't detract too much attention from the new characters.

And then they go and have Toph still be Toph, and Zuko's partways between his younger "good" self and his uncle. Go figure.

I get the impression that they originally didn't intend to have the ATLA characters have particularly big roles in the show. I think Katara was mostly there for that "handing down the torch" moment at the start of Book 1. Beyond that, the idea seemed to be to limit the involvement of the original characters to little references and flashbacks where appropriate, with Katara and spirit Aang reappearing when needed. Especially since Katara's line at the start seemed to imply that most of the Gaang was dead.

But then they had Zuko and Toph show up and fight, which made Katara seem passive in comparison.

Personally, I didn't really like Toph's reappearance in the show (at the very least, she should have appeared in less episodes) and Zuko's didn't really do much for me.
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Uzuko
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« Reply #55 on: Jan 03, 2016 11:08 pm »

One year out my opinion of Legend of Korra has gotten slightly more negative as I realized the glaring flaws in the series. I really want to see this franchise switch hands to someone who could capture the magic that was Avatar: The Last Airbender or to someone who can actually handle complex and mature story telling.
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Freedom153
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« Reply #56 on: Jan 03, 2016 11:40 pm »

One year out my opinion of Legend of Korra has gotten slightly more negative as I realized the glaring flaws in the series. I really want to see this franchise switch hands to someone who could capture the magic that was Avatar: The Last Airbender or to someone who can actually handle complex and mature story telling.
Or at the very least get the old ATLA team back together again, but given Sifu Kisu hasn't even watched Korra Book 3 and 4, and Aaron Ehasz is working on Futurama and didn't touch TLOK, I don't know if that could happen. People just go their separate ways.

That, and I remember Mike and Bryan having some serious issues with how TLOK was handled on the network side. See Bryan's post about "Remembrances" to see what I mean. But, like you said, a switching of hands of the franchise would be a very good thing. I only say this because of everything I've heard about "pleased with how Korrasami unfolded", and "hetero lenses", and like Clowngoon said in another thread, it becoming The Legend of Korrasami after the fact.

All that's outside the show, though. One year out, I'm pretty sure of this: if I had never read anything about Korra online ever, aside from watching the show, I probably would have enjoyed it more, either through never seeing others pointing out flaws in it, or avoiding the "handling" of Korrasami post-finale. Hell, wouldn't have even known it was the canon romantic relationship.
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ahintoflime
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« Reply #57 on: Jan 04, 2016 11:52 am »

It turns out that Naga was Asami in a furry suit the whole time.
Audience: Where's Asami?

Bryke: Guys she's right there. Come on this is basic stuff.

I think its a case of having too many cooks in the kitchen. There's just so many great concepts and characters that the show wants to develop, that they all end up competing for attention and the narrative starts getting unfocused.
More like too many ingredients and not a big enough pot. Or it can also be a lack of cooks.
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Nausicaa
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« Reply #58 on: Jan 04, 2016 10:25 pm »

But, like you said, a switching of hands of the franchise would be a very good thing. I only say this because of everything I've heard about "pleased with how Korrasami unfolded", and "hetero lenses", and like Clowngoon said in another thread, it becoming The Legend of Korrasami after the fact.

One of the weirdest things about the past year is how Asami's become so prominent. Aside from her largely secondary role in the show, it's weird because she used to get left out of a lot of stuff. She doesn't appear in either of the official Korra video games, she never had any official promo art made, and if I remember correctly, even the Nick website used to have bios for minor characters like Skoochy but not one for her. In fact, the no promo art thing came back to bite them once the show was finished, because whenever Nick puts together a new thing for their site, they have to use her character model sheets:





However, since the series has ended, Asami's become a lot more prominent (at least, by the standards of being a character in a show that has already ended). Admittedly, she's usually only depicted alongside Korra though. She's the only character besides Korra to have a confirmed appearance in the sequel comics, she's the only LOK character besides Korra and Wan who Bryan has publicly drawn since the show ended, Mondo toys is making a statue of her, Nick have included her in 3 of their web games (alongside Korra), Nick put out that "Korrasami" video, and Gallery Nucleus still sells several Korrasami prints.

Other characters still get some focus- Lin got a statue, Tenzin got that book (sort of), and the preview art for the upcoming statues didn't include an Asami silhouette (but did include Mako and Bolin). But still, it's weird to me because she's usually so unimportant in the show. It feels like her current prominence entirely hinges on two minutes of the show, and that if those two minutes never happened, all this focus on her would be completely baffling (assuming that the romantic aspect of the post-finale stuff was chopped out). I don't think you could say that about most of the other "big" characters in the franchise- that if you cut out their final scene (or a couple of minutes from their storyline), they'd be considered a much smaller character, and be marketed as such. 

Speaking of which, the fact that Nick have acknowledged the relationship in the year since the finale makes me a little more disappointed that Bryke didn't ask sooner about it. Of course, it's possible that this is entirely because the finale didn't spark any major controversy, and that they'd have buried it if it hadn't been reasonably well-received. But as it is, I get the impression that Bryke could have done more with the relationship if they hadn't waited so long to actually ask if they could include it. Though admittedly, I'd probably still be disappointed if Asami's characterization otherwise stayed the same, even if the relationship was more fleshed out.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #59 on: Jan 04, 2016 10:55 pm »

It wasn't the relationship, it was them not utilizing Asami and putting her on the backburner. They should've made her be an integral part of the group long before deciding whether or not she would end up with Korra. No amount of backpedaling or comics will make up for that. Truthfully I wouldn't be opposed to a complete reboot of the Avatar franchise to really flesh out some things.
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Freedom153
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« Reply #60 on: Jan 04, 2016 11:40 pm »

I knew they were pushing Korrasami, but... I didn't know all of that. Almost makes me think I should stop reading. >_<

Asami doesn't look engaged or engaging at all in the second picture you poste-

Mondo toys is making a statue of her
WAIT.

You mean...

They got permission...

They're making...

Making that which can only be linked?

I should have stopped reading!

If you have proof they're making it, don't show me. Please. >_< Seriously hope that they either don't make the... thing, or change it.

Speaking of which, the fact that Nick have acknowledged the relationship in the year since the finale makes me a little more disappointed that Bryke didn't ask sooner about it. Of course, it's possible that this is entirely because the finale didn't spark any major controversy, and that they'd have buried it if it hadn't been reasonably well-received. But as it is, I get the impression that Bryke could have done more with the relationship if they hadn't waited so long to actually ask if they could include it. Though admittedly, I'd probably still be disappointed if Asami's characterization otherwise stayed the same, even if the relationship was more fleshed out.
I find what Bryke did is like a Christian highschool kid who's not anti-Muslim being unsure if their art teacher is a bigot or not when they get a calligraphy assignment, and finding out that they teacher isn't at the last minute. He then makes a quick attempt to show solidarity with a Muslim classmate by trying to draw the Muslim Shahada really, really quickly before the assignment's due, rather than turn in the mostly okay to good original calligraphy sentence he'd been working on for 4 periods.

Then the student acts all offended when one of their classmates points out it looks more like squiggles than Arabic and is certainly not proper calligraphy, and calls him anti-Muslim. Then teacher waits to see what happens, and posts the squiggly result in the hall for everyone to see when parents praise the "statement".

It wasn't the relationship, it was them not utilizing Asami and putting her on the backburner. They should've made her be an integral part of the group long before deciding whether or not she would end up with Korra. No amount of backpedaling or comics will make up for that. Truthfully I wouldn't be opposed to a complete reboot of the Avatar franchise to really flesh out some things.
I don't see the point in resetting ATLA.

Then again, if they reboot it, and it's not on Nick, say, maybe Adult Swim, maybe I'll get my Avatar with Guns I've been "working" over a year on in animated form. Cheesy
« Last Edit: Jan 04, 2016 11:41 pm by Freedom153 » Logged

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« Reply #61 on: Jan 05, 2016 12:17 am »

Well A:TLA could stand to be a bit darker and I personally would've liked Ursa to have a bigger role. But back to Korra, I feel like it just didn't stick the landing as well as it could have. The love triangle was a bit much. Characters holding the "idiot ball" for the sake of "drama". I feel like one of the main reasons they never let the old cast meet up again was the fear that they would overshadow the new characters. I also don't understand why Katara disappeared from the story for the most part during season 2. She didn't necessarily have to fight, but we should've seen her giving counsel during the Northern Water Tribe takeover over the South and she should've also been there for Korra when her parents were on trial. She was the only mentor of Korra's that was in the area, there was no reason for her to not be present. Same goes for her not attending her granddaughter's tattoo ceremony. I mean if Zuko was able to visit, she should have as well. It was not only the most important event in Jinora's life, but also Tenzin's and her husband's nation was being reborn. It was the first ceremony in nearly 200 years to have multiple airbenders and not have them be members of the same family. The only excuse for her to not be there would be is if she were deadly ill, which we saw that she wasn't when Korra got back to the South Pole.
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ahintoflime
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« Reply #62 on: Jan 05, 2016 12:48 pm »

Well A:TLA could stand to be a bit darker

A kid wakes up from a self defense mechanism to find out that his entire culture has been burned to the ground in an attempt to kill him. He's being chased by Fire Nazi people whenever he lets his guard down. A young girl was spared her life because her mother took her place at the gallows and the young girl's brother can only recall his sister's face when they mention the word "mother." A boy had his faced burn by his own father in a public display in a culture that holds honor as the highest of things. Said boy is dishonored and charged with a fool's errand to find a person who has been missing for nearly 100 years. The old man who accompanies the boy on his fool's errand sees the boy as his own son because he lost his son in war.

It's no Linkin Park song but it's pretty dark already. And that's not even going into the secret police that kidnap you and brainwash you.

The moment an individual old character appeared on screen they already overshadowed all the new characters. A group together would make Korra and her team useless unless they wrote the old characters as out-of-character or gave them excuses to not participate.
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Prolix
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« Reply #63 on: Jan 05, 2016 01:02 pm »

1. Korrasami was utterly contrived and catering to elements outside of the show.
2. Amon, Zaheer and the Red Lotus had lots of potential, but fell short-likely due to an over-dependency in indulging glaring tropes.
3. Korra had lots of potential, but fell short. She became very indignant and self-righteous by season 4. (To be fair, she was the Avatar, so it was to be expected.) It just starkly contrasts her season 1 conception, where she's more relaxed and a bit subversive.
4. There were too many characters. I think the writers spread themselves thin by trying to write for so many characters.

Those are still my impressions one year out.
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« Reply #64 on: Jan 05, 2016 02:40 pm »

If Korra and her team were far more compelling then it wouldn't have been an issue to have the old team meet up and possibly overshadow them.
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Nausicaa
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« Reply #65 on: Jan 05, 2016 06:24 pm »

Mondo toys is making a statue of her
WAIT.

You mean...

They got permission...

They're making...

Making that which can only be linked?

I should have stopped reading!

If you have proof they're making it, don't show me. Please. >_< Seriously hope that they either don't make the... thing, or change it.

Haha, my bad. As far as I know they haven't revealed yet whether the design has been approved.
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« Reply #66 on: Jan 05, 2016 09:09 pm »

If Korra and her team were far more compelling then it wouldn't have been an issue to have the old team meet up and possibly overshadow them.

Eh, the old team just should have been dead tbh. Have LoK start 10 years later. That would make the gaang all in their late 80s/early 90s. Say they died of old age. The end.

And yes I know, before anyone mentions it, Bumi lived over a hundred years. Good for him. Last I checked though, he's not the standard for old people.
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Loopy
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« Reply #67 on: Jan 06, 2016 12:02 am »

King Bumi had access to premium organic rock candy. Avatar Kyoshi ate lots of fish.

This new processed food that everyone is eating will knock almost a full century off your life.
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #68 on: Jan 06, 2016 05:29 am »

If Korra and her team were far more compelling then it wouldn't have been an issue to have the old team meet up and possibly overshadow them.

Eh, the old team just should have been dead tbh. Have LoK start 10 years later. That would make the gaang all in their late 80s/early 90s. Say they died of old age. The end.
At that point, Zuko would be the only one with a chance of still living. I wouldn't mind at all.
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« Reply #69 on: Jan 08, 2016 01:01 am »

If Korra and her team were far more compelling then it wouldn't have been an issue to have the old team meet up and possibly overshadow them.

Eh, the old team just should have been dead tbh. Have LoK start 10 years later. That would make the gaang all in their late 80s/early 90s. Say they died of old age. The end.

And yes I know, before anyone mentions it, Bumi lived over a hundred years. Good for him. Last I checked though, he's not the standard for old people.
I think it would have been a mistake to just move forward and kill all the original cast off because of some notion that the story cannot continue without the audience wanting just more of them. We have no idea what the standard for old people in the Avatar world is or how long the average lifespan is. Heck people take hits that would normally kill or cripple a person in our world. If they would've had to kill off the entire cast of the original series because those characters would overshadow the new characters or story, then that would've meant they didn't have enough faith for the new characters to stand on their own.
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« Reply #70 on: Jan 08, 2016 02:01 am »

If they would've had to kill off the entire cast of the original series because those characters would overshadow the new characters or story,

That's not why the old characters should have been killed off. They should have been killed off because they aren't needed. They are just fan-service.

For instance, you mentioned a desire to see Katara more in Season 2 as she healed people and supported Korra during the trial. Storywise, why is that needed? Book 2 had enough pointless stuff as there is. Seeing Katara heal soldiers or having a scene with her counseling Korra would have added absolutely nothing to the show. It would have just been an excuse to see more Katara.

Sure, if the show was heavily altered the old characters might have a chance at becoming meaningful but keeping the discussion as to how the series is now with maybe only a few minimal rewrites? The old characters are a waste of space. 

I think it would have been a mistake to just move forward and kill all the original cast off because of some notion that the story cannot continue without the audience wanting just more of them.


The fact that we are even having this conversation alludes to this bolded statement being true though. If it wasn't true, people would not be going "where's Katara", and freaking out whenever one of the old characters appeared, and constantly going 'where is Toph' when Book 3 was airing. People got all their old character back, but then they wanted them to all meet up. If that happened, the fandom would have wanted to see them all fight together. I highly believe that the bold statement is in fact true and that had the older characters had a bigger role in LoK, they would have overshadowed the new cast. Not because of any weakness on the new cast's part, but just because the fandom would have put more emphasis on the old characters.

An example of that would be when Book 4 aired. Kuvira goes to the swamp. What did people want when that happened? It wasn't Korra or any of the new characters fighting to beat her. They just wanted to see Toph be a one man army and steal a major victory away from the new characters simply because she was Toph.

Fanservice is not a bad thing all the time (Star Wars 7 made it work), but when it's done just for the sake of fan-service there is a problem and that's all the old characters were in LoK. And don't get me wrong, I love the gaang. I love them sooooo much more then the Krew...but they had no business being in LoK.
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« Reply #71 on: Jan 08, 2016 02:27 am »

The thing is if they were going to put her in the vicinity of all the action, then it would've made sense for her to appear. If they didn't want her present in Korra's storyline arc in the South Pole, then they should've had her go with her family to the Air Temples. It definitely made no sense for her to not be present when Jinora had her tattoo ceremony.

If the fandom put more emphasis on the old characters to the point that they can't focus on the new ones, then that still means that the creators didn't do a decent enough job to make the new characters engaging. Like you said, Star Wars 7 made it work. So why wouldn't LOK have been able to do so in the same context? Getting rid of the old characters wouldn't have made the new characters any more compelling. I think that if they tried to find a balance, then all of them would've felt somewhat integral to the story without the old cast overshadowing the new cast by too much.
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« Reply #72 on: Jan 08, 2016 03:10 am »

The thing is if they were going to put her in the vicinity of all the action, then it would've made sense for her to appear.

No, it wouldn't have. She is a very minor character in LoK. Her being in the healing hutts have nothing to do with what Korra was doing (or any of the other main characters) therefore, it would make no sense to see her.

Besides, we actually did see her in 212 when they brought Jinora to her...you know...when seeing her was actually relevant to the plot. 

Quote
If they didn't want her present in Korra's storyline arc in the South Pole, then they should've had her go with her family to the Air Temples.

And what would that have accomplished exactly?

If anything that defeats the whole point of the trip. The point was to have the Kataang siblings bond with each other...not hang out with mommy.
 
Quote
It definitely made no sense for her to not be present when Jinora had her tattoo ceremony.

This is true...but really, so what? Would that scene really have been better if we saw Katara standing in the crowd? Personally, I don't think so. I didn't even think about Katara during this scene. It was only when I came on here and people were mentioning it that I noticed her absence.

You keep pointing out instances that Katara could have appeared in...we can do that all day. What I'm asking is why? What would it add? If the reason is not just to see more of the old characters for the sake of it then what is the reason? Because really, it sounds like you just want to see the old characters more.

Quote
Like you said, Star Wars 7 made it work.

It worked in Star Wars because the fan-service had a point to it. Luke was important to the plot (he was the plot) and Han had connections to certain other major characters so that his inclusion was necessary for that character's development (I'm being vague to avoid heavy spoilers). It wasn't like Zuko showing up in Book 3 to do absolutely nothing. Han did something. The movie would have been very different without him. That's why it worked in Star Wars. It had a purpose. What you are talking about with LoK is just excuses for the old characters to get screentime.

Sure LoK could have done that successfully if it was heavily rewritten but it doesn't need to be. LoK's plot didn't suffer because the lack of the old characters (really, the inclusion of them hurt the plot more then anything since they just took up valuable screentime). So if LoK needs rewrites for anything, it is not for that.



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« Reply #73 on: Jan 08, 2016 03:58 am »

But by not having Katara be present when she is right in the area, it creates an issue that wouldn't have arisen if she wasn't there to begin with. You claim that it would be pointless to have Katara giving counsel or there to comfort Korra, but at the same time it comes off as awkward that someone like Katara wouldn't be doing those things. Her fighting days are far behind her, but I just have a hard time seeing her as sitting back and doing nothing if she was in the area.

I get that you want to NOT have the old characters appear, but since they didn't kill them off it just felt weird that they didn't appear in certain situations that they could have or most likely would've been present for. The overall plot didn't really suffer, but it just felt awkward at certain points.
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« Reply #74 on: Jan 08, 2016 12:37 pm »

I think it would have been a mistake to just move forward and kill all the original cast off because of some notion that the story cannot continue without the audience wanting just more of them.

The fact that we are even having this conversation alludes to this bolded statement being true though. If it wasn't true, people would not be going "where's Katara", and freaking out whenever one of the old characters appeared, and constantly going 'where is Toph' when Book 3 was airing. People got all their old character back, but then they wanted them to all meet up. If that happened, the fandom would have wanted to see them all fight together. I highly believe that the bold statement is in fact true and that had the older characters had a bigger role in LoK, they would have overshadowed the new cast. Not because of any weakness on the new cast's part, but just because the fandom would have put more emphasis on the old characters.

An example of that would be when Book 4 aired. Kuvira goes to the swamp. What did people want when that happened? It wasn't Korra or any of the new characters fighting to beat her. They just wanted to see Toph be a one man army and steal a major victory away from the new characters simply because she was Toph.

Forget what the fans want. They always want stuff (including silly things like shipping Tongue).  Just write an organic story and they'll be happy regardless of what they want.

From my observation, the debate over Katara began in Book 2 and IMHO it was with good reason. Because as long as we're watching characters who realistically shouldn't be present and others we don't know or care about doing stupid and meaningless things - how is it that a respected elder we know and care about apparently isn't doing anything about the trouble brewing in her own backyard?

The thing is if they were going to put her in the vicinity of all the action, then it would've made sense for her to appear.

No, it wouldn't have. She is a very minor character in LoK. Her being in the healing hutts have nothing to do with what Korra was doing (or any of the other main characters) therefore, it would make no sense to see her.

Besides, we actually did see her in 212 when they brought Jinora to her...you know...when seeing her was actually relevant to the plot. 

How was that relevant? What did Katara accomplish that Kya didn't? Why not leave Jinora's body with Kya or some other faceless healer? And what is waterbending supposed to do anyways when Jinora's soul istrapped in hell?. That's just giving Katara something meaningless to do, which is already an issue with other characters.

Having said that, what we did see of Katara in LoK doesn't suggest that more of her would have helped. This Katara is so devoid of passion; apparently the previous fiery optimism and proactivity is reserved for young people (and old men).  Undecided
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