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Author Topic: The Legend of Korra : One Year Out  (Read 14456 times)
AtoMaki
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« Reply #200 on: Aug 17, 2016 07:11 am »

I like this scenario, but I don't think Kuvira would have rose up unless Korra had left for an extended period of time.

Kuvira rose while Korra was recovering in the SWT, so that would still work. Like, Korra could leave the SWT for Kuvira rather than RC. Then we could have Kuvira exploiting Korra and using her for propaganda, while pretending that she is Korra's BFF and rigging fights for Korra so that she could get back on track quickly.
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Keeper of Suki's firebending ancestry, the Kyoshi Warrior dojo, the love potion made from rainbows and sunsets and the mecha tanks.

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Uzuko
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« Reply #201 on: Aug 17, 2016 08:54 am »

I like this idea to.
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Raimundo
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« Reply #202 on: Aug 17, 2016 04:36 pm »

I dunno but Kuvira is already shown as a better (or at least much more efficient) "good guy" than Korra, and pushing this further would hurt Korra's character and role a lot IMHO. A better idea would be to have Korra join Kuvira at the beginning (and ditch the "Korra runs away from her problems... again!" plot once and for all) and get those sweet clashes of personality rolling from the very beginning of the season.

I think I'm misunderstanding you, so I'm genuinely curious about your opinion here.

But yeah I have to disagree. I don't think I would call Kuvira "a much more efficient good guy than Korra". Maybe a much more efficient political figure or even uniter, but never a "good guy". She was manipulative, a compulsive liar, a racist, and somewhat genocidal.

And before Book Four, I don't really recall Korra ever being one to run away from her problems, but again maybe I'm missing something.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #203 on: Aug 17, 2016 05:07 pm »

She was manipulative, a compulsive liar, a racist, and somewhat genocidal.

This was Azula  Wink. Kuvira was just simply very goal-oriented in a "the ends justify the means" way. She pushed for success, but she had her people's best interest in mind all the time. She didn't do this because she liked it, but because she had to. In this way, she forged the poor and weak Earth Kingdom into the powerful and prospering Earth Empire. As it was once mentioned, she was a person who could accept "hard truths" and invoke anti-hero tropes instead of even trying to be a spotless person. Korra was pretty much her exact opposite in this manner.

And before Book Four, I don't really recall Korra ever being one to run away from her problems, but again maybe I'm missing something.

Let's see... she ran away from the White Lotus, she ran away from Amon, she ran away from Unalaq, she ran away from Raiko, she ran away from Unalaq again, she ran away from Raiko and RC, and finally she ran away from the whole world in a hope to run away from herself.  That's a lot of running.
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Loopy
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« Reply #204 on: Aug 17, 2016 07:17 pm »

Every discussion I've seen AtoMaki get into on this subject seems to come down to very different personal opinions of fascism. But let's not pretend that Kuvira wasn't (probably literally) getting off on the Great Uniter routine. Grin

As far as fixing the story goes, though, I wonder if Opal and Kuvira shouldn't have been combined into a single character. Suyin's only daughter could have been the adopted Kuvira, who is very curious about her adopted aunt Lin, and gets into a little romance with Bolin. She joins the Krew to help with the Red Lotus, and instead of Korra teaching the new character Airbending, Kuvira is the one to teach Korra metalbending and they connect that way.

In Book 4, Bolin gets Bataar Jr's role, being the lover Kuvira betrays for the sake of her mission, but Bolin also gets to keep his own storyline where he starts to grow a little uncomfortable with racist death camps and takes action. Thus, it's a more unhinged and isolated Kuvira who shows up in Republic City looking for a fight after literally everyone she ever cared for has abandoned her by that point.

We'd lose out on another Airbender that way, but that gives Kai and Jinora more room to be the face of that subplot and maybe do something more than their stock subplot.
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Raimundo
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« Reply #205 on: Aug 17, 2016 08:49 pm »

She was manipulative, a compulsive liar, a racist, and somewhat genocidal.

This was Azula  Wink. Kuvira was just simply very goal-oriented in a "the ends justify the means" way. She pushed for success, but she had her people's best interest in mind all the time. She didn't do this because she liked it, but because she had to. In this way, she forged the poor and weak Earth Kingdom into the powerful and prospering Earth Empire. As it was once mentioned, she was a person who could accept "hard truths" and invoke anti-hero tropes instead of even trying to be a spotless person. Korra was pretty much her exact opposite in this manner.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. But here's the thing:

1) Kuvira and Azula are not as different as you might think. Kuvira may have been more well-meaning than Azula, but there were many similarities in their methods. Like Azula, Kuvira consistently threatened her subordinates and used fear to control them. Like Azula, she oppressed people who weren't the same nationality as her own (the biggest example would be her purging and imprisoning people who weren't historically native to the Earth Kingdom). Like Azula, she lied and manipulated her officers, allies, and her followers on a consistent basis (such as Bolin, Korra, Varrick, and even Su to an extent). Even their backgrounds have similarities as both of their more villainous qualities stem from parental abandonment issues. However, yes, Kuvira is a much more emotionally stable and moral character than Azula. This brings me to my next point.

2)Kuvira is an anti-villain, not an anti-hero. Anti-villain: A character who can be considered more noble or heroic than an anti-hero, but the means to achieve their ends are often considered immoral, unjust, or evil. Unlike Azula who is totally a villain, Kuvira does have good intentions behind her more sinister qualities. She deeply cares about her country, she commends and praises her officers for doing well, and she tries to negotiate with political leaders before manipulating or threatening them. However, she's still extremely ruthless, abusive of other nationalities, exceptionally arrogant, and still qualifies as a monster.

3)Korra is an anti-hero. Oddly enough, your opinion of Korra kind of validates this Wink. Anti-hero: a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes. Korra has a lot of issues as a character: she can be arrogant, spiteful, ruthless, mean, hot-tempered, and just downright cruel at times. She also makes plenty of questionable decisions throughout the show. HOWEVER, she's still the hero of the story. She wants to save the world. She wants to bring peace. She strives every day of her life to be a more caring and compassionate person. And she wants the people in her life to be happy.

Quote
Let's see... she ran away from the White Lotus

Ehh...not exactly. It was less of her running from the White Lotus and more her running toward Republic City. She wanted to learn airbending, therefore she went after what she wanted. Basically, she did what an active protagonist is supposed to do.

Quote
she ran away from Amon, she ran away from Unalaq,

I don't think these count as her running away from her "problems". These are examples of her retreating from physical fights she simply couldn't win and regrouping with her allies. She retreated from Amon because she was tired, weak and spent nearly two days in a box. But later, she took him on directly. And IIRC she defeated Unalaq and left him in order to save her father.

Quote
she ran away from Raiko, she ran away from Unalaq again,

She wasn't running away from Raiko. But she was running away from Mako because he, you know, broke up with her. I guess this sort of counts, but its...kind of a natural reaction, don't you think? And once again, tactical retreat. She fought him and lost, so she came back with help.
 
Quote
she ran away from Raiko and RC,

Actually, she got kicked out. Raiko ordered her to leave. Not to mention, she wanted to find the other airbenders and that was way more important.

Quote
and finally she ran away from the whole world in a hope to run away from herself.

Yup, you're right about that one, Buddy Grin.
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2016 09:54 pm by Raimundo » Logged
luvavatar
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« Reply #206 on: Aug 17, 2016 11:08 pm »

Actually Kuvira was WORSE than Azula in the aspect of abusing those who were not of the same nationality as her. Azula used the Dai Li and didn't care that they were Earthbenders from the Earth Kingdom. Kuvira was kind of an idiot for not utilizing the diverse populace she had in her nation and wanting to make her empire "pure".
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ahintoflime
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« Reply #207 on: Aug 17, 2016 11:37 pm »

Actually Kuvira was WORSE than Azula in the aspect of abusing those who were not of the same nationality as her. Azula used the Dai Li and didn't care that they were Earthbenders from the Earth Kingdom. Kuvira was kind of an idiot for not utilizing the diverse populace she had in her nation and wanting to make her empire "pure".

Kuvira did use them until she didn't.
The standard writing technique they employed made it necessary for the antagonists to become evil so Korra could attempt to punch them and then actually have her tag-a-alongs actually defeat them that way the world could just fix itself without any input from Korra.

Basically, she did what an active protagonist is supposed to do.

Korra started but never committed nor managed to follow through. She was an anti-hero but she was surrounded by actual heroes who did more good than her.
That whole wanting to save the world, bring peace, strive to be caring and compassionate and wanting others to be happy is so generic that it gets blurred by how the others actually do this already without needing to have their butts kicked or take years to make an effort.

As far as fixing the story goes, though, I wonder if Opal and Kuvira shouldn't have been combined into a single character. Suyin's only daughter could have been the adopted Kuvira, who is very curious about her adopted aunt Lin, and gets into a little romance with Bolin. She joins the Krew to help with the Red Lotus, and instead of Korra teaching the new character Airbending, Kuvira is the one to teach Korra metalbending and they connect that way.

In Book 4, Bolin gets Bataar Jr's role, being the lover Kuvira betrays for the sake of her mission, but Bolin also gets to keep his own storyline where he starts to grow a little uncomfortable with racist death camps and takes action. Thus, it's a more unhinged and isolated Kuvira who shows up in Republic City looking for a fight after literally everyone she ever cared for has abandoned her by that point.

Bolin would make the Megatron and also Taking Down laser work? Or more Varrick being the funny man?


I mean look at Lin:
1. For one thing, Mako even with potential should not be in such a high position in Law Enforcement in only six months.  As such one figures he got to where he is because Lin saw something great in him and pulled strings to get him his job.  So you'd think she would trust his instincts more often.
I first thought that Korra may have pulled some strings to get Lin to let Mako on as there must have been something preventing Mako from joining the police force initially.
But then Lin doesn't like Korra.
She almost shares the same attitude on Korra that Mako does on a daily basis.
So perhaps Mako just applied one day after reading the script and he got the job?
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #208 on: Aug 18, 2016 04:52 am »

1) Kuvira and Azula are not as different as you might think.

Nah, Kuvira was neither racist (she had no problem with Varrick, for example), nor genocidal (huh? nobody died), nor a compulsive liar (did she really lie at once? I can only recall her not telling others the truth). I can maybe give you the 'manipulative' but saying "Do X." stronger each time they don't do X is hardly something I can call manipulative - there was too much straightforwardness and honesty behind her. Hell, Korra showed more aptitude for being manipulative.

2)Kuvira is an anti-villain, not an anti-hero.
3)Korra is an anti-hero.

I can roll with this.


The point with Korra running away is that she did not choose confrontation. You can spin the "Why-s" and "How-s" (90% of these run aways were plot-powered anyway) but the fact remains that she did run away from her problems for various reasons/under a great variety of circumstances. 
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Keeper of Suki's firebending ancestry, the Kyoshi Warrior dojo, the love potion made from rainbows and sunsets and the mecha tanks.

My fanficions.

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luvavatar
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« Reply #209 on: Aug 18, 2016 10:07 am »

Kuvira wasn't racist? Just because she used Varrick, Zhu-li and Bolin that doesn't mean she wasn't a racist. I mean she was rounding up everyone that wasn't of Earth Kingdom origin and throwing them into prisons. Not much of a "Great Uniter" in my opinion.
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #210 on: Aug 18, 2016 10:14 am »

Please get back on topic.

If you wish to discuss about shipping, do it in this thread. There are also other threads if you want to compare the villains between ATLA & TLOK or comparing all the villains in TLOK. For other discussions that you're not sure if they have been covered, feel free to PM me.
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Freedom153
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« Reply #211 on: Dec 26, 2016 10:42 pm »

Two years exactly from my first posting of the fic I put so much time into, all 17 months of on and off again of it, I'm finding myself glad TLOK existed, if not for the reasons Bryke would like me to be glad it existed.

I can remember stuff from my fic, and generalities about the show, especially Book 4, given it was the one most relevant to what I was working over, though even those have faded away over time to an extent. Even my own writing. But Book 1 is so far away for me by now, that I literally cannot remember all of what music on the Book 1 OST went with what part. I can definitely place the tracks like "On The Lam" to when Korra is running from Republic City police, but I can't place where other music went that I "should" be able to, like parts of other tracks I think were associated with fight scenes.

What I do remember aren't the times X did Y bending, but character moments and general plot... and even though I watched TLOK more recently than ATLA, I remember more of it in more detail. So I cannot say that, if taken all by itself, TLOK has made a lasting impression on me in a "Yes, more of that," kind of way. "Not unpleased to have eaten it, but wouldn't order again."

So I'm glad that they motivated me to write, when I might not have ever tried writing out had it not been for... well, "That Could Have Been Executed Better". And I'm glad they produced something that was "decent to good". I'll still be watching for the comic, even if I don't like how it's currently looking... but beyond that, I just feel "done", almost completely.
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Additional datapoints acquired. Additional animated stories viewed. Directive: adjust opinion... adjusting...
First eyes, a treasure. New eyes, end with a pretentious blink, own vision eclipses.
Book 5:Humanity, aka: Freedom's First Writ
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