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Author Topic: The Legend of Korra : One Year Out  (Read 13802 times)
Freedom153
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« on: Dec 20, 2015 10:33 pm »

I’m not sure if retrospective type threads are allowed, but (even if it is a day late - forgot last night) I’m curious to see what other’s thoughts on the series is one year out, after 12 months have passed since the last episode ever of The Legend of Korra aired.

Given I’m not posting it there, I don’t intend this to be an Angry Spirits material thread, or a place to complain about all things Korra - just somewhere to look at TLOK one year down the line, with the added benefit of a year’s time to put things in perspective.

If the replies turn it into Angry Spirits material(don’t know if our mods take requests like this), please move it there.

Feel free to put down your own impressions, one year later - here’s mine.

Initially, the finale left me slightly confused, and not entirely satisfied, to put it mildly. Rather than go to Angry Spirits straight away, I started my ongoing experiment with writing back then, working out my energy for the series through my own babbling.

If it weren’t for Korra, I’d never have tried writing, and even though I know quite a lot of what I’ve written isn’t on par with other things, just the act of writing a lot has helped me get better at communicating, computer and otherwise. And fanfiction in particular, trying to write interactions between people, and being able to see the flaws in earlier work later on, has ended up helping me much more than just typing faster and more coherently.

For a long time, I just ignored the forums, too busy writing to take part in the… spirited discussions that took place right after the finale. Eventually, I started messing with the forums more, finding that people saw the same things I did, or things I hadn’t even considered.

After a lot of time spent in Angry Spirits, my work on writing dwindling down, I had a small epiphany watching Big Hero 6 for the first time (which I did not like at all), asking out loud towards the end, “Wait - what? How would he pluck out his own card and stay normal? Baymax without the ‘nurse’ card should be in berserker mode, and here he’s sending it to Hiro inside his fist so he can be resurrected using the chip?”

“The f**k?”

Even before then, the movie had lost me, with the gut-punch artificially engineered death of Hiro’s brother. It was effective when I was five or six years old, Disney, with Mufasa - won't work again, and I'm not sure if it would work on a modern five or six year old.

Along with other things in that movie that was widely liked, that I definitely did not like, helped me realize for all the whining I had done in Angry Spirits… The Legend of Korra as a whole is still not terrible. There are certainly worse things, for me, like Big Hero 6. After my connection of TLOK with Big Hero 6 and finding the first better, I remembered another movie people said was good that I disliked from before, Frozen, and saw it wasn’t just one movie that could have helped me realize this.

I didn’t really think of ever posting what amounts to a blog about it until seeing two other widely acclaimed movies and thinking they were bad or lacking. I found myself considering Inside Out as “just” lacking, Bing Bong the most memorable character to me, with Interstellar being absolutely terrible. That soft science nightmare with weak narrative structure and lack of explanation made Asami’s role in TLOK look like shiny silver comparatively. The audiotrack… very intrusive and obnoxious, where TLOK’s was strong.

At the same time, I watched some other movies where my opinion ended up being from “bizarro world” compared to what others said about them - liking Jurassic World without huge reservations (even the characters and plot and themes, not just the CGI dinosaurs) where I had expected it to be mindless, and liking Terminator Genisys for mixing things up with John Connor, where others said it was bad. Actually liked it better than Inside Out… 

Maybe my opinions are just from bizarro world, and you know what they say about opinions, but seeing different things labeled as “good” not living up to my expectations, and things like Terminator Genisys and Jurassic World managing to surprise me in a good way, I find myself less exacting and unreasonable.

Anyways, the point of the last five to six paragraphs is, over the past year, I’ve gone from being more than simply down on TLOK, to being able to see it’s not without its merits, compared to things outside the franchise.

There are things I wish were different, especially when ATLA did them right, but… strange as it is to say, even Book 2 Korra’s shiny silver compared to Big Hero 6 (seriously, twist ending rule-breaking wtf), and gold compared to something inexplicably popular like Interstellar (seriously, twist ending wtf again, plus trying to be serious sci-fi and screwing up such basic things- the black hole would have ripped him to shreds! The only tolerable thing about that film was the robots…)

So all in all, by its own merits, TLOK isn’t gold, but I don’t see it as garbage, especially not after seeing what others say is good and bad outside the fandom’s echo chamber. I’m glad for the series existence overall, even the flaws - the process of writing has been very good for me, and I wouldn’t have started if TLOK ended on the same high note that ATLA did.

Enough of the mini-blog. Now, for some graphs I made using the ASN.net Statistics, because numbers. Tongue The analysis of these is more serious; I’ve seen a few people talk about “low activity”, and want to use logic and statistics to address this.







Aside from "General Interest", all terminology for different demographics taken from World of Warcraft and MMO terms; "General Interest" denotes a level of interest slightly below that of a "Casual", with "Casual" here denoting they have a passing interest in the series and may have watched the whole thing.
"Semi-Casual" here denotes they have likely watched the series twice or more and are interested in it past the first time seeing it and likely have posted a few times.
"Hardcore" here denotes they have taken the time to post frequently or be active in some sort of Avatar-centric community at some higher level.

See Wikipedia for important dates such as season starts and ends, plus July 22, 2010 for the Korra announcement.

Note: Data does not include "Dec 15" in full. Original analysis and graphing performed 11/22/2015, updated 12/20/2015.

Conclusions: user and community activity metrics are tightly tied to the beginnings and endings of seasons. Avatar : The Last Airbender Book 1 Water is not represented, as ASN.net did not exist at that time. Metrics were also greatly affected by the announcement of The Legend of Korra.

There is no significant difference between the two series' general patterns when it comes to general interest in the series - a season or show finishes, activity spikes for a while, then peters out to a relative constant.

Aside from The Legend of Korra Book 4, the first to air purely online, there is no significant difference between the two series' general patterns when it comes to those with a "Casual" interest in the series - a season or show finishes, activity spikes for a while, then peters out to a relative constant. Book 4 of Legend of Korra had much less online than Book 3, "Casual" observers possibly not aware that Book 4 was "airing" on Nickelodeon.com.

Only in the "Semi-Casual" and "Hardcore" segments of ASN.net's community do you see a difference between the two series, most especially in "New Posts" trends. The Legend of Korra's announcement brought about the most new posts compared to Avatar : The Last Airbender for Korra's run as a whole.

From the analyzer’s experience, the "Semi-Casual" and "Hardcore" are not good indicators of anything, beyond those demographics. Furthermore, in a purely author driven entertainment media, one without "gameplay" or "replay value" to lengthen interest, usually a narrative can only last consumers so long.

Final Conclusions/Opinions: The second Avatar series has finished. To expect interest to remain high almost a year later, especially among the "Semi-Casual" and "Hardcore" demographics, is not realistic. With the series end's anniversary past us, everything that can be said about Aang's successor Korra and her show has been said, and probably been said multiple times. In addition, the move of the series to online partway through The Legend of Korra Book 3 and for all of Book 4 likely impacted "New Members" more heavily than other metrics.

The two "most casual" metrics, "Most Online" and "Page View" statistics, show no difference between Aang and Korra's series, taking into account not everyone who watched Avatar: The Last Airbender was even interested in Korra (see how the Page Views for Korra's announcement or Book 1 in Page Views was smaller).

The sky is only "falling" for one subset, the "Semi-Casual" and "Hardcore", one that from the author's experience across communities(ASN.net, WoW/MMO Champion the most extensive experience, Command and Conquer: Generals and its user-made modifications circa 2004-2006)  is almost always a bad indicator for pretty much anything. If there's nothing new to discuss, there won't be a discussion after all fodder has been exhausted, all the dead horses beaten and every possible ship shipped.

In closing : a year out, through time’s passage dulling initial outrage, writing serving as an outlet in multiple ways, venting in Angry Spirits, or seeing that I could certainly do worse than re-watch TLOK, likely all four, I find myself less down on Korra’s series than in the past.

Even if I don’t feel like I have much left to say about the series, aside from work on my own attempts at writing, I look forward to the TLOK comics with a strange mix of dread, curiosity and some anticipation. Mainly curious - to see where Mike takes the story, and see if there’s any overlap with what I wrote.

Edit: Changed graph colors to be less confusing.
« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2015 07:14 pm by Freedom153 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: Dec 21, 2015 01:05 am »

Interesting analysis but from a statistical POV, I don't think you should have introduced WoW and MMO terms which makes things very confusing as I read it. Also, you should have used different colours for all three graphs. I thought the blue line in graph one was the same set of stats for the blue line in graphs two and three.

I'm surprised the Korra finale for the 'most online' line in graph 2 didn't have as high as a peak as I would have expected.
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 21, 2015 02:12 am »

One year out, I still haven't found anything to replace ATLA or TLOK.  My wife didn't watch seasons 2-4 of TLOK as it came out.  She binge watched it all during the summer andsaw Korrasami coming in Season 3 and kept calling out the evidence as it progressed while I tried to not reveal that she was spot on. 

I hope you all have been well and sincerely wish you the best while we wait for something new from Bryke. 
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 21, 2015 02:32 am »

The trend I noticed is that people have moved on to Steven Universe and/or Miraculous Ladybug. For myself, I'm into Miraculous Ladybug and RWBY.

The new thing we have in the pipeline are Korra comics which would be written by Mike. Anyway, this isn't the thread to discuss it since we already have a thread to discuss it.
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 21, 2015 06:48 am »

All I know is, one year out, it still feels like the content producers aren't particularly interested in anything other than Korrasami... even though Steven Universe has literally written circles around them on the representation front in the meantime.  =/
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Freedom153
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 21, 2015 11:45 am »

Interesting analysis but from a statistical POV, I don't think you should have introduced WoW and MMO terms which makes things very confusing as I read it. Also, you should have used different colours for all three graphs. I thought the blue line in graph one was the same set of stats for the blue line in graphs two and three.

I'm surprised the Korra finale for the 'most online' line in graph 2 didn't have as high as a peak as I would have expected.

I fixed the color issue - blue to orange and purple. I don't really know any terminology that fits what I wanted to say about different demographics quite as well as the WoW terms "Casual", "Semi-Casual", and "Hardcore" do.

I'm not entirely sure why the "Most Online" peak wasn't higher; my best guess is the move to pure digital lost quite a few people.

One year out, I still haven't found anything to replace ATLA or TLOK.

Pretty much the same here. The movies I mentioned that I liked did that a tiny bit, but they're all of two, two and a half hours long. While I think I may just be straight up done with video games, there's other things like Steven Universe I just haven't tried yet.
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 21, 2015 12:20 pm »

The sky is only "falling" for one subset, the "Semi-Casual" and "Hardcore", one that from the author's experience across communities(ASN.net, WoW/MMO Champion the most extensive experience, Command and Conquer: Generals and its user-made modifications)  is almost always a bad indicator for pretty much anything. If there's nothing new to discuss, there won't be a discussion after all fodder has been exhausted, all the dead horses beaten and every possible ship shipped.

I followed you right until the bold part. C&C: Generals is actually a good example for a media that would have been better off without "semi-casual" and "hardcore" fans. Those two groups pretty much killed Generals 2 (and thus the series) with their "MUH NOSTALGIA!"

In fact, this made me realize that the Generals parallel might work on a much different way: it can be said that TLOK bled dry under ATLA's shadow (this must be kinda obvious at this point IMHO), and the semi-casual/hardcore ATLA fans' responsibility is this should be pretty evident. I think these fans really had the power to make TLOK much more popular and thus much more successful only if they had expressed more love towards the show (of course, the show must get the blame in this too by not being that lovable for the old fans... only if...). In the end, TLOk tried to rip off ATLA and thus regain the old fans, but it was just a partial success, far from enough, and eventually the old stuff became somewhat counter-productive (as it stood out too much, and the intention was shamelessly obvious). Funnily enough, this very same thing happened with Generals 2 - the onyl difference being that Generals 2 tried to rip off Rise of the Reds, one of the most popular Generals fan-made mods out there.
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 21, 2015 07:09 pm »

^How exactly did TLOK rip off ATLA?
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 21, 2015 07:10 pm »

Funnily enough, this very same thing happened with Generals 2 - the onyl difference being that Generals 2 tried to rip off Rise of the Reds, one of the most popular Generals fan-made mods out there.

I'd argue that Bryke tried ripping off one of the most popular LoK "fan-made mods" out there, too, given that last scene.  >.>
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 21, 2015 07:46 pm »

^How exactly did TLOK rip off ATLA?
I agree with Kairok- aside from Korra's fight with Zaheer, and the "fanservice" of having old Gaang members show up, I don't see how TLOK was ripping from ATLA. TLOK was a lot darker, had more fighting, and it also had more focus on ideology as a foe, even if they didn't call everything their real world counterparts while still saying through the narrative that they were all bad or misguided.

The Fire Nation was more classic "bad monarchy", something we haven't had in the West for something like 150 years, less if you count pre-WWI Imperial Germany. Hardly connected to more modern events.

Compare that to TLOK. Amon and the Equalists were close to Communism, Unalaq and his aim to re-integrate humans and spirits were close to theocracy(the furthest of the four villain's equivalents from modern times in the West, but certainly relevant in the Middle East), Zaheer and his goal to tear down governments and authority figures were textbook anarchy, and Kuvira was textbook authoritarianism/fascism with a significantly different bent than the Fire Nation had(avenging past "wrongs" in the United Republic not being part of the Earth Kingdom/Empire, for one - Kuvira's version of the Treaty of Versailles and reparations, if a lot less grievous a complaint).

Given I'm significantly older than the TV-Y7/ mid teenager target audience, and already knew about all four of these ideologies and their faults(largely thanks to my upbringing), TLOK's libertarian streak didn't seem particularly deep to me - but I'm sure it would have seemed deeper and more profound if I had seen it when I was, say, 14, and my dad was a devout Republican.

If that were the case, I can imagine the ending would have been quite the shock.  Cheesy

The sky is only "falling" for one subset, the "Semi-Casual" and "Hardcore", one that from the author's experience across communities(ASN.net, WoW/MMO Champion the most extensive experience, Command and Conquer: Generals and its user-made modifications)  is almost always a bad indicator for pretty much anything. If there's nothing new to discuss, there won't be a discussion after all fodder has been exhausted, all the dead horses beaten and every possible ship shipped.

I followed you right until the bold part. C&C: Generals is actually a good example for a media that would have been better off without "semi-casual" and "hardcore" fans. Those two groups pretty much killed Generals 2 (and thus the series) with their "MUH NOSTALGIA!"

In fact, this made me realize that the Generals parallel might work on a much different way: it can be said that TLOK bled dry under ATLA's shadow (this must be kinda obvious at this point IMHO), and the semi-casual/hardcore ATLA fans' responsibility is this should be pretty evident. I think these fans really had the power to make TLOK much more popular and thus much more successful only if they had expressed more love towards the show (of course, the show must get the blame in this too by not being that lovable for the old fans... only if...).

...

Funnily enough, this very same thing happened with Generals 2 - the onyl difference being that Generals 2 tried to rip off Rise of the Reds, one of the most popular Generals fan-made mods out there.

Oh - I wasn't aware the nostalgia crowd had been instrumental in Generals 2's downfall; I was only part of the C&C community until C&C 3 released and had been out for a while, and only contributing beyond playing the games between 2004 and 2006.

What you said, about the semi-casual and hardcore being detrimental at times - I agree there. I was basically saying that whatever comes out of a semi-casual or hardcore's mouth needs to be taken with a grain of salt - hence my realization that for all my whining in Angry Spirits, Korra is not an awful mess.

I've seen something similar to what you described elsewhere. Two of World of Warcraft's worst expansions can be partly attributed to bad influence from the most invested demographics. Following the "easy mode" of late Wrath of the Lich King, older players whined for more difficulty and obnoxiousness in general from the game before Cataclysm released, and got it. That was WoW's first major sub loss of many to come... Similarly, after Mists of Pandaria "wasn't Warcraft enough" for many of said same semi-casual and hardcores("OMG PANDAS"), Blizzard was trying to emulate older feelings with Warlords of Draenor(which ended up failing spectacularly, for reasons beyond the failed nostalgia appeal, from everything I've read second hand - haven't logged in for over two years...)
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 22, 2015 04:47 am »

^How exactly did TLOK rip off ATLA?

The list includes reused characters (Zuko, Toph), an abundance of legacy characters (Tenzin, Jinora, Lin, Suyin, Bumi, Kya) who steal the show from the original characters, reused plot lines (stop the EVUL dictator), and shameless callbacks (Jinora is quite literally r63!Aang).

Funnily enough, this very same thing happened with Generals 2 - the onyl difference being that Generals 2 tried to rip off Rise of the Reds, one of the most popular Generals fan-made mods out there.

I'd argue that Bryke tried ripping off one of the most popular LoK "fan-made mods" out there, too, given that last scene.  >.>

I would like to think that the original idea for Korrasami was Tyzula Cheesy
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« Reply #11 on: Dec 22, 2015 07:44 pm »

One year later, my opinions of Book Spirits and Book Change have fallen, and my opinions of Book Air and Book Balance have stayed about the same. This is partly driven by my watching new shows The Flash and Supergirl, which both have more storytelling failures than LoK but have succeeded where LoK consistently failed with strong character work.

So, in retrospect, I find LoK even more wanting, and I see its successes as more accidental.

I also disagree with the criticisms of Big Hero 6, even if it's nothing compared to The LEGO Movie. Tongue
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 22, 2015 08:26 pm »

^How exactly did TLOK rip off ATLA?

The list includes reused characters (Zuko, Toph), an abundance of legacy characters (Tenzin, Jinora, Lin, Suyin, Bumi, Kya) who steal the show from the original characters, reused plot lines (stop the EVUL dictator), and shameless callbacks (Jinora is quite literally r63!Aang).
  

I think it runs deeper than that. The 'rip-off' is in the sense that what is supposedly a sequel to ATLA has little in common besides the universe and a few characters/motifs. In storytelling and artistic sensibilities, both are viscerally quite different. (Even some of the carry-on characters feel like different people - looking at you Katara!) A cynic might suggest that ATLA's popularity was used to launch a diametrically different type of story that otherwise might not have had the same appeal. For instance if I'd watched LoK without having watched ATLA it would have been a forgettable experience (probably wouldn't have lasted past Book 1) but I certainly wouldn't be talking about it here.  Tongue
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 22, 2015 09:28 pm »

Based on that, even the ATLA comics are "ripping off" the original cartoon. When the Mike and the Bryan gave Gene Yang the plot concept for The Search, they admitted that they started fresh with Ursa's character rather than trying to tie together the threads from Zuko Alone.

I think, if the franchise continues, we can assume that it will be one of those with more amorphous continuity. People who try to make it all fit together will be going against the spirit of the storytelling.
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 23, 2015 10:24 am »

A cynic might suggest that ATLA's popularity was used to launch a diametrically different type of story that otherwise might not have had the same appeal. For instance if I'd watched LoK without having watched ATLA it would have been a forgettable experience (probably wouldn't have lasted past Book 1) but I certainly wouldn't be talking about it here.  Tongue
Pretty much. AtLA was needed because of the abundance of legacy characters, reused plotlines, tribute characters, and setting.

And besides it goes with what Bryke set out to do: make the opposite of Aang. And they succeeded.

I'm just glad we're far enough away from Korra that typing LoK and saying something good means people know I'm talking about Legacy of Kain. And when I type out LoK and say something not good people know I'm talking about Legend of Korra.
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 23, 2015 11:13 am »

Based on that, even the ATLA comics are "ripping off" the original cartoon. When the Mike and the Bryan gave Gene Yang the plot concept for The Search, they admitted that they started fresh with Ursa's character rather than trying to tie together the threads from Zuko Alone.

My impression of the comics is that they are meant for kids. I guess you could call it a 'rip-off', although I don't really feel that way. For me the comics feel like someone decided to write a follow-up to ATLA specifically for children (and that there is an actual 'proper' follow-up out there somewhere that should be used for official continuity). Even when the subject matter seems mature, the way it is handled and the overall tone suggests otherwise.

On the other hand, by the end of LoK's Book 2 I felt like the Avatarverse was deliberately dismantled for some reason (exalting its female protagonist?) To this I say, "Okay, if you wanted to write this type of modern empowerment/ teenage hero action show, you could have done so in another universe. It doesn't really fit here."

Maybe 'ripoff' isn't the right word, and my views on the comics vs LoK may not stand up to scrutiny. But that's how I feel ATM.

A cynic might suggest that ATLA's popularity was used to launch a diametrically different type of story that otherwise might not have had the same appeal. For instance if I'd watched LoK without having watched ATLA it would have been a forgettable experience (probably wouldn't have lasted past Book 1) but I certainly wouldn't be talking about it here.  Tongue
Pretty much. AtLA was needed because of the abundance of legacy characters, reused plotlines, tribute characters, and setting.

And besides it goes with what Bryke set out to do: make the opposite of Aang. And they succeeded.

Not only did they create the "opposite of Aang", they created the "opposite of the Avatar". That for me does not fit with ATLA, and yet James Cameron was (I think) the main reason why this show wasn't called "Avatar: The Legend of Korra".
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 23, 2015 06:43 pm »

^Y'know, for all the negative comments here, Korra wasn't half as bad as it's reputation says. It was ambitious, it tried new things, and even if they didn't appeal to all, they were still a valiant attempt. As for it being the opposite of Avatar, I don't think so. The Avatar world was never meant to be static. Even in ATLA, changes happened and there were consequences of that change; LOK only continued with that theme.
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 24, 2015 02:50 am »

Okay before I get to the rest of my post, I want to say that I disagree that LoK is ripping off of ATLA just because some of it's characters are decedents of the gaang. There are some aspects that rip off of ATLA...but that is not one of them. That's just having characters that are connected to the previous series...that's why LoK is a sequel.

Anyway one year out...I've become a little more ambivalent towards LoK. I'm not longer caught up in all the hype of a new episode or season so I've had time to take a step back and think about it. My feelings of Books 1 and 3 have remained the same. Book 3 is fantastic. Book 1 is great apart from the love triangle and pro-bending (keep in mind that I was one of those that loved the Amon twist; I know that ruined the season for some.) My feelings for Book 2 and 4 though have changed for the worse.

Book 2 is just kind of a mess. You have all the pointless subplots, unlikable characters, and subpar animation for the series. The later half used to be the light in the dark for me but I see now that the second half has the same problems as the first half, just on a lesser scale.

While Book 4 is better, and at it's best it is as great as Book 3's...book 4's pacing is just all over the place. Out of all the seasons, Book 4 has to be the most poorly paced. That plot just stops and goes throughout the whole season thanks to pointless episodes like 'The Calling' and 'Remembrances'. Characters like Mako and Tenzin get sidelined for extended periods of time. Asami is more pointless then ever. Basically, Book 4 had to much going on for the amount of episodes it had to tell the story. The result was everything felt a little underdeveloped. Then of course, there is the 'to awful to be described' ending. I hated it when it first aired and though I am less angry by it (as to be expected when time passes) I hate it even more now after a year of seeing Bryke basically treat LoK as 'The Legend of Korrasami'. Seriously, 9/10 things they put out about the show now has to do with it. And it's only really hurt my desire to rewatch the series.

And that's basically how I can sum up my feelings on LoK more easily. With ATLA, I still re-watch that show all the time. It is my favorite show ever and it'll probably be something that will stick with me for the rest of my life. LoK though...well, last time I rewatched ATLA a couple months back I couldn't bring myself to then move onto LoK like I usually do for my complete rewatch of the franchise. I just didn't have the desire to. Will I rewatch it again? Of course. But I don't think it will stick with me like ATLA will. LoK will eventually probably just fade into the realm in my memory holding all the other shows I used to watch. I'll re-watch it from time to time but it won't be a consistent part of my life like ATLA. Overall, it's a really good show, and as a fan of the franchise in general, my personal bias wants to call it great.

Ultimately though, it just has to many problems. The characters, for the most part, aren't as likable. The plots are hit or miss. The show as a whole feels like a bunch of ideas that Bryke had that they couldn't really decide which one to choose so they just threw it all in and hoped that whatever came out worked. And it did but it lacks the magic that made ATLA so great.

So in closing, a year out, I still think of LoK as a good/great show...but I also recognize that it's also not what I wanted it to be in the end. It's not a show that I can put alongside ATLA and take with me throughout my life (figuratively). As for the future, I'd definitely check out a third series if it ever happened...but I'm not doing the LoK comics. The ending annoyed me enough and Bryke advertising the comics as the Korrasami adventure just turned me off. Even though there will definitely be other aspects to the comics...I'm just kinda done. This constant Korrasami barrage of the last year (yes, this is purposefully exaggerating it but you guys get my point) has just kinda made me done with new content for these characters. At best, I'll read the wikipedia plot summaries of the comics so I know what happened post show. At worst, I'll just ignore them entirely.

So now, my only real connection for this franchise in the future is the ATLA comics, which I will still be following. And I'm okay with that. I love ATLA and like it's comics enough that I'm fine with having just that. And LoK will always be there as well whenever I want to rewatch it. Smiley

And to be clear though, LoK is still probably in my top 5 favorite tv shows for as much as I just harped on it.
« Last Edit: Dec 24, 2015 02:53 am by Avatar Epsilon » Logged

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shorewall
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 24, 2015 09:39 am »

I love LOK.  Straight love it.  I love Season 1, 2, 3, and 4.  I think it was an amazing show.  I know it had problems, but no one or all of them taken together could dent LOK for me. 

Which is why the finale kills me to this day.  It overshadows everything the show was about, and completely divorces the actual show from what its legacy will be.  People who never cared about the show now praise it, and for those that actually cared and watched, none of the things you cared about matter.  None of the villains, none of the lessons learned, none of the art and fight scenes matter.  No one cares because of a 5 second spot at the very end. 

Korrasami is now the legacy of LOK, bolstered, as Avatar Epsilon and others have said, by the creators seeming to only want to dwell  on that minute aspect of a groundbreaking show.  Of course, they go where the press is.  It's so cynical, which is the opposite of what LOK was. 

LOK was a female POC protag, kicking ass and being unapologetic about it.  THAT was groundbreaking.  Now that is almost forgotten.  In the fanon Korrasami dynamic, Asami even appears to have the high ground?  Ugh, it makes my heart sad.
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 24, 2015 10:19 am »

^Y'know, for all the negative comments here, Korra wasn't half as bad as it's reputation says. It was ambitious, it tried new things, and even if they didn't appeal to all, they were still a valiant attempt. As for it being the opposite of Avatar, I don't think so. The Avatar world was never meant to be static. Even in ATLA, changes happened and there were consequences of that change; LOK only continued with that theme.

Yes, LoK was ambitious. And in the words of Charles Xavier in X-Men TAS, "unfortunately, Magneto, the ambitions of powerful men often bring strife and misery to those they would improve."

Furthermore, there's change that feels organic and progressive, akin to building on a previous foundation. Or there's taking a sledgehammer to it, via breaking the established rules of the universe, having major plot elements appear and disappear at random, and/or other stuff that has more to do with the 'cool' factor IRL than keeping consistency with the setting.
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 24, 2015 11:23 am »

LOK was a female POC protag, kicking ass and being unapologetic about it.

This sounds like a cool idea for a show. Though I lost count of how many times Korra apologized and failed to kick butt.

Not only did they create the "opposite of Aang", they created the "opposite of the Avatar". That for me does not fit with ATLA, and yet James Cameron was (I think) the main reason why this show wasn't called "Avatar: The Legend of Korra".
Also it helps in business to save on ink and the like to cut out a word for sales. Ink's not cheap.
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 24, 2015 02:37 pm »

I haven't watched the show once since the night of the finale, and I don't think my opinion of it will increase if I were to give the show another shot. The first two seasons, as well as the fourth, were highly disappointing. I enjoyed the experience of getting new Avatar episodes, which might explain why I stuck with the show throughout its run, but other than that feeling of excitement when a new Avatar episode came out on TV, the show didn't really satisfy me at all. Whenever a season ended, like the first two, I found less to like as time went on. I suppose this was because after the initial enthusiasm dissipated, I was able to see the various ways the show failed to live up to its predecessor (or on its own merits). Heck, I don't think I'll enjoy the tale of the first Avatar, Varrick's antics, or season three nearly as much the second time around. Overall, I cannot say I'm a fan of Korra. I don't even like the excuse that it is more watchable than most things out there, since that isn't saying much.

I agree almost completely with Avatar Epsilon's concluding few paragraphs. I'll watch the original show gladly even after all these years, but whenever I see Korra on the guide, like I have for the past few nights, I don't even bother tuning in. In addition to that, I have a general lack of interest in works set during the same time frame as Korra. I'll admit that I don't read a whole lot of fanfiction, but one of the ways I think Korra has failed is that its world isn't very explorable . That might seem strange to say, and I don't think it is entirely the show's fault either (after all, most "spin-offs" I'm aware of aren't really interesting outside the story it is trying to tell. An example of this would be the Odyssey. I enjoyed it in its own right, but I'm not really interested in exploring its world further. This is not so for the Iliad, which has tons of interesting stories I would like to see explored), but these are my thoughts on the matter.

I am especially interested in what people think about this point. Do you guys agree? I know some do, but I always wondered how many people are interested in seeing/reading about the world of Korra. Some people are interested in a Red Lotus comic book, but I can't really think of anything more I want to see.
« Last Edit: Dec 24, 2015 02:39 pm by Colonel_Brian » Logged
Avatar Epsilon
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 24, 2015 06:13 pm »

I am especially interested in what people think about this point. Do you guys agree? I know some do, but I always wondered how many people are interested in seeing/reading about the world of Korra. Some people are interested in a Red Lotus comic book, but I can't really think of anything more I want to see.

I mean, I never was interested in a LoK comics series to begin with. While I probably would have checked it out if they didn't play the Korrasami angle, I just don't feel that there is much left to tell about this time period in the series. I mean, you have the obvious story-line of putting the Earth Kingdom back together but there wasn't anything that makes me want a comic series. The only thing I'd be interested in is a comic dealing with the RL and I'm really only interested in that because I felt the series left that entire group open ended and without closure.

But...yeah, I was never particularly interested in exploring more of Korra's world. Even before the series ended I was saying 'no' to a possible comic series and the ending only further cemented that feeling.

ATLA's world felt large. LoK's felt small.
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longman83
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 24, 2015 06:49 pm »

In addition to that, I have a general lack of interest in works set during the same time frame as Korra. I'll admit that I don't read a whole lot of fanfiction, but one of the ways I think Korra has failed is that its world isn't very explorable . That might seem strange to say, and I don't think it is entirely the show's fault either (after all, most "spin-offs" I'm aware of aren't really interesting outside the story it is trying to tell. An example of this would be the Odyssey. I enjoyed it in its own right, but I'm not really interested in exploring its world further. This is not so for the Iliad, which has tons of interesting stories I would like to see explored), but these are my thoughts on the matter.

I am especially interested in what people think about this point. Do you guys agree? I know some do, but I always wondered how many people are interested in seeing/reading about the world of Korra. Some people are interested in a Red Lotus comic book, but I can't really think of anything more I want to see.

I feel the same way, and for me it comes down to a lack of investment in the characters and their world. Without that, there isn't an emotional entry point into additional stories. For example, I want to know more about the FN royal family history and dynamics because I care about the main characters who came from this background. Because they were compelling, I imagine that the circumstances and culture that produced them would also be compelling. On the other hand, do I want to know more about Mako/Bolin's childhood and the death of their parents, or Lin's absentee dad, or Varrick's upbringing on a farm and his married life with Zhu Li?  No, no and no.

In addition, I have mixed feelings on whether a modernized setting really fits with the Avatar concept. The antiquated Asian-inspired world of ATLA was unique, established with care and deliberation, and felt large enough such that I could visualize the existence of other intriguing corners of this universe that weren't on screen. What is clear is LoK's careless worldbuilding leaves an acute incoherence that I find much easier to dismiss altogether than seek further elaboration for. The only exception to this is the pre-Avatar ear, which, despite what I increasingly see as similar flaws in the Beginnings two-parter, has the ancient dystopia factor in its favor.
« Last Edit: Dec 24, 2015 07:03 pm by longman83 » Logged
Raistrom
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 25, 2015 01:01 am »

Whew, it sure has been a long time since my last post. In the 1 year that passed since the tlok finale, my hype has settled and I have evaluated my thoughts on this show. I feel as though it really missed its mark at being a stand out series like atla. I really just got into Korra in season 3, and I've watched the fandom get quite divisive with it (for good reason). Nevertheless, I enjoyed the ride, even as I noticed the flaws in the series.

To answer Colenel Brain's point, I personally would like to see more of the world in Korra. However, I'd definitely prefer to do so with a new cast of chracters. I concur with a few of the posters here that the characters just weren't as likable and developed as the previous series'. Despite this being a breaking point for many, I always enjoyed theorizing ways events and factions would affect the rest of the Avatar world (which recently gave me inspiration to work on my first fanfic).

Overall, I think Korra did alot to keep me on the edge of the fandom. I've kept up with the atla comics and will probably end up looking into the ones for tlok (curse my addiction to this franchise)  Roll Eyes. I kinda hoped it would go a different direction after the finale, but I'm content to see what the fans think of it. Since I'm on winter break, I felt like checking in on the slowed down Asn. Mabye I'll actually post as I work on my little project instead of merely lurking all the time. Cheesy
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