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Poll
Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 435 (69.6%)
9 - 109 (17.4%)
8 - 46 (7.4%)
7 - 19 (3%)
6 - 2 (0.3%)
5 - 2 (0.3%)
4 - 4 (0.6%)
3 - 1 (0.2%)
2 - 0 (0%)
1 - 7 (1.1%)
Total Voters: 607

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Author Topic: [207] Zuko Alone  (Read 55981 times)
HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #475 on: Feb 01, 2014 05:44 pm »

^There are other strong episodes. Zuko Alone was less about an engaging story and more about connection to the character. If someone doesn't have that connection (= doesn't like or doesn't care about Zuko), they might not enjoy the episode. So keep your hopes up, your friend might still enjoy the show.
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Loopy
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« Reply #476 on: Feb 03, 2014 06:07 pm »

"Hm, interesting episode. Though cliche plot"

Out of curiosity, is your friend familiar with the concepts of "homage" and "pastiche?"
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #477 on: Feb 04, 2014 02:07 am »

I think so, why ask?
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guyw1tn0nam3
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« Reply #478 on: Feb 04, 2014 08:03 am »

I think so, why ask?

The reason why Zuko Alone feels cliche is because it's an homage to "Red Harvest - Yojimbo - A Fistful of dollars"

Never read it, but yeah.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #479 on: Feb 04, 2014 08:30 am »

Is the whole family setting considered a cliché? I mean the throne stuff and conspiracies?

If so, would Game of Thrones be cliché as well?
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2014 12:19 pm by Furudo Erika » Logged
Avatar Epsilon
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« Reply #480 on: Feb 04, 2014 06:56 pm »

Almost anything can be called cliche nowadays. It just depends on how loosely you use the term.
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Loopy
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« Reply #481 on: Feb 04, 2014 07:47 pm »

I figured the friend was referring to the Western portion, because that plot was entirely formula. If you told me that the episode was a Western homage, I would have been able to describe the exact plot to you. However, I'd say it's less a cliché and more of a deliberate homage/pastiche. The writers willingly and knowingly drew on the typical Western tropes to evoke the same feel and style.

The stuff in the flashbacks, with the Royal family, I don't think is a cliché at all. Is that what the comment referred to you? If so, I'd love to know what about it is so common.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #482 on: Feb 05, 2014 05:29 am »

I didn't ask him what part of the episode seemed cliché, didn't want to get into that topic with him. I love AtLa and I admit I'm a bit upset when someone says a negative thing about it (Fanboy alert), that's why I didn't want to discuss the stuff which he thought were bad.

Personally I don't consider this episode a cliché and it's the first time I hear someone call "Zuko Alone" one

« Last Edit: Feb 05, 2014 05:32 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
Blue Warpath
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« Reply #483 on: Feb 22, 2014 07:22 pm »

Am I allowed to say that anyone who gave this episode a 1 on the poll deserve to be strapped to a chair and listen Justin Bieber repeats for five years with little reprieve and only minimum food? While alternating people, wearing earmuffs, point and laugh at them in the background while eating a delicious buffet?
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NeeNee
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« Reply #484 on: Feb 22, 2014 07:41 pm »

Wishing bad on others is not encouraged on this forum. Though I am sort of surprised to see that 7 people gave this episodes a 1... I guess there must have been something specific in there that upset some people?
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Blue Warpath
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« Reply #485 on: Feb 22, 2014 07:46 pm »

Wishing bad on others is not encouraged on this forum. Though I am sort of surprised to see that 7 people gave this episodes a 1... I guess there must have been something specific in there that upset some people?

It was probably Ursa. It's nearly always her fault.
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Loopy
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« Reply #486 on: Feb 22, 2014 07:52 pm »

Though I am sort of surprised to see that 7 people gave this episodes a 1...



Or, alternatively, 7 people out there really dislike Zuko as a character and wished we could have gotten back to wacky Kataang shenanigans.
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Blue Warpath
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« Reply #487 on: Feb 22, 2014 07:55 pm »

Though I am sort of surprised to see that 7 people gave this episodes a 1...



Or, alternatively, 7 people out there really dislike Zuko as a character and wished we could have gotten back to wacky Kataang shenanigans.

Nah, that's illogical. Everyone loves emo's who yell at, betray their uncle and are more confused than the average teenage girl. It's probably Ursa, that's all.
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NeeNee
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« Reply #488 on: Feb 22, 2014 07:55 pm »

Wishing bad on others is not encouraged on this forum. Though I am sort of surprised to see that 7 people gave this episodes a 1... I guess there must have been something specific in there that upset some people?

It was probably Ursa. It's nearly always her fault.

Probably.

Though the comics hadn't come out yet, so it can't be her marriage hijinks.


Or, alternatively, 7 people out there really dislike Zuko as a character and wished we could have gotten back to wacky Kataang shenanigans.

That's actually a legit good reason. I guess the episode is pretty boring when you're not interested in the FN royal family.
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Blue Warpath
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« Reply #489 on: Feb 22, 2014 08:01 pm »

Wishing bad on others is not encouraged on this forum. Though I am sort of surprised to see that 7 people gave this episodes a 1... I guess there must have been something specific in there that upset some people?

It was probably Ursa. It's nearly always her fault.

Probably.

Though the comics hadn't come out yet, so it can't be her marriage hijinks.

I guess, but, come on, we all know Ursa is the real abuser. Ozai sent the monster away and burned his son when realised how corrupted he was.
« Last Edit: Feb 23, 2014 03:52 am by Blue Warpath » Logged


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Aangs True Love
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« Reply #490 on: Feb 23, 2014 12:44 am »

Watch the language and inappropriate insinuations.  This is a family friendly forum, and the standards for conversation are kept on that level.
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Colonel_Brian
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« Reply #491 on: Dec 31, 2014 11:50 am »

This was an amazing episode. The homages were masterfully done and I love, love political/royal court intrigue. I also take back what I said, the portions in the present tied well together with the stuff in the past. I have nothing else to add, this episode was fantastic.
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« Reply #492 on: Oct 23, 2018 03:14 pm »

I just noticed something after watching this episode for like the umpteenth time, Azula asks if Iroh were to die would that automatically make Ozai the new Fire Lord. She completely forgot about Lu Ten who was not dead yet and he would have been above Ozai in terms of ascending to the throne. The children of the crown prince/princess will inherit before the siblings of the crown prince/princess. Azula could have just forgotten about him or there are two possibilities. One could be that he was not a bender and that would put his inheritance in jeopardy or a far more sinister plot could be in force. Perhaps Azula knew he wouldn't survive the battle as Ozai may have orchestrated his death. He killed his father and had no qualms about killing either of his own children, so he would have no issue in regards to killing his nephew if it meant he removed an obstacle that stood in the way of his own ambitions.
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Colonel_Brian
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« Reply #493 on: Oct 23, 2018 05:21 pm »

I'm not so sure; Ozai made a big deal about Iroh's blood line being essentially finished due to Lu Ten's death. If Lu Ten possibly being a nonbender casted doubt on his right to inherit the throne, than I don't think Ozai emphasizing his death would have made much sense. It's possible Ozai orchestrated his nephew's death, but I don't really see much evidence to support that conclusion. In my view, Lu Ten's death was just a senseless loss of human life.
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Yougo
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« Reply #494 on: Oct 24, 2018 03:52 am »

While it is a mistake a writer could make, in-universe it sure isn't one for Azula to make. Granted, she formulated it as a question, but surely this is meant as rehotic and provoking. it's not hard for Azula to figure out the answer to that question on her own.

So now that it is canon, we have to figure it out! :-D

Perhaps (coming of)age has a play in this too? I don't know if and how in FN law/customs you can be old enough to be a soldier but not old enough to be Fire Lord, but if that gap is there it would make prince Lu Ten Fire-Lord in name only and make prince Ozai a prince-regent until Lu Ten is no longer a minor.

Of course Prince-regent Ozai would deal with that situation as well but it does pose a risk of Lu Ten gaining followers and with that political weight, complicating things. It's strategically best to avoid this intermediate stage and remove Iroh's bloodline all in one go.

/EDIT

Wait, scratch all that. it doesn't make sense while Azulon still lives.
If Iroh dies, but  Lu Ten lives, Azulon will remain Firelord until and beyond Lu Ten comes of age.
All Ozai can do is
- make a plea to Azulon to have him considered for regency in case Azulon should become unfit to rule AND Lu Ten is still too young to take over, which would be plain stupid because it would set off all kinds of alarm bells in Azulon's head and make the opposite happen, and get Zuko banned.
which would leave option 2:
- hope or see to it Azulon becomes 'unfit to rule' (by death or otherwise) before Lu Ten comes of age, which probably leads to Ozai not waiting.

...which would then lead to Zuko not being banned, but instead Lu Ten living in exile, looking for the Avatar, not to arrest him, but to ask him for help. while being hunted by Azula. Lu Ten Alone.

« Last Edit: Oct 24, 2018 04:36 am by Yougo » Logged

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« Reply #495 on: Oct 24, 2018 09:47 am »

I don’t think that Lu Ten wasn’t of age yet considering Zuko took the throne at 16/17 and Azula was younger and poised to take it as well (though the title would have been meaningless as Ozai fashioned himself the Phoenix King). So Lu Ten would have been of age to take the throne had he not been killed. Though why Azula would have skipped over him when discussing succession is still strange.
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Loopy
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« Reply #496 on: Oct 24, 2018 05:31 pm »

Well, the Fire Nation doesn't seem to be too strict with how the whole Crown Prince thing works. Ozai just straight up asked to have things changed before anyone even discussed the idea of Iroh marrying again. We've still been given no indication that anyone questioned Ozai suddenly being made the heir on the day Azulon died. Zuko was the Crown Prince when he was banished on a snipe hunt that no one expected to ever end, and no one brought up whether Azula was moved up in the line of succession over it; Zuko even named himself 'heir to the throne' several times in public while banished.

The 'Crown Prince' title might not automatically pass from Iroh to Lu Ten, or if it does, it might not be solid or consistent enough to remove all doubt that maybe Ozai could be picked in Lu Ten's place.

And, of course, Azula is a kid whose entire world revolves around her father, so it's plausible that maybe she's just being ridiculous and Ursa has no desire to get into the weeds of such a question.
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Urmom666
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« Reply #497 on: Oct 24, 2018 08:35 pm »

I always found everyone’s acceptance of Ozai quite interesting. It could be that most were so heavily brainwashed that they more or less would have accepted whoever their new ruler was. But at the same time, I always wondered if perhaps Ozai had some folks (i.e. A few of his advisors) that he may have confided in about what really happened since they may have actually wanted him in charge instead of Iroh anyway. I just have a feeling Azula wasn’t the only one who thought Ozai would make a better Fire Lord.
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« Reply #498 on: Oct 24, 2018 08:52 pm »

Zuko may have kept stating he was the heir to the throne, but it was apparent to just about everyone that they didn't regard him as being in line for the throne. In season 1, his own crew had no idea how he got his scar and how he was banished. Then after the Siege of the North Pole, his father basically put a "burn notice" out on him which spread so far that even peasants in a far away village in the Earth Kingdom knew his story. Zuko was holding on to the hope that if he captured/defeated the Avatar he would be welcomed back and therefore take his "birthright".

Iroh may have made it apparent after the death (never stated, but it seems likely) of his wife that he never planned on marrying again, so him having another child to be heir is a possibility that they didn't go for even if he were capable of fathering another child.

While it is possible that the title wouldn't have automatically passed from Iroh to Lu Ten, it does seem likely that it would have been the case had Lu Ten not been killed in battle. I just wish more was shown about how Ozai became Fire Lord as killing Azulon shouldn't have been enough to do so.
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Yougo
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« Reply #499 on: Oct 25, 2018 12:19 am »

Well it was stated that Azulons dying wish was for Ozai to be Firelord. however incredulous, convenient and transparent it sounded, the public certainly didn't dare call it out. and at the time, iroh didn't contest.

technically with iroh being unfit to rule in his state (defeated, disgraced, depressed, mourning and generally unmotivated ) the prince-regent construction would have been proper, but posed the threat of iroh one day stepping up again. Ozai needed something more solid.

then again in a society where anything can be settled with an agni Kai, who needs rules anyway?

I conclude that Azula actually thought this far ahead, and either
- didn't consider others to not  think that far ahead and skipped a few steps in her reasoning, expecting others to follow her reasoning, or
- did expect others to not follow and was being purposefully cryptic,  because she likes showing off her superior intellect to mostly herself, and enjoys the puzzled faces as others show their inferior intellect trying to keep up. She's watching this thread right now with a just slight one sided smile, suppressing the urge to roll her eyes. it causes wrinkles, you know...



« Last Edit: Oct 25, 2018 12:42 am by Yougo » Logged

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