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Author Topic: Avatar Kyoshi lived 230 years  (Read 8253 times)
AtoMaki
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« Reply #50 on: Jul 16, 2015 03:28 am »

They didn't just say that. They said specifically that its the time that the Spirit and Normal world are most connected.

So? This has nothing to do with Raava and Vaatu being powerful. In fact, it gives more evidence that the two are just parasites, stealing a big event so that they can pretend to be important (and still nobody in the higher echelons cares what they are doing).

How does the world return to normal?

I dunno. It returned to normal right after Raava won with a fanatical anarchist popping up within a year, followed by a ruthless tyrant. It didn't feel very 10k years of light if you ask me  Tongue.

Quote
Again I just told you that Korra is the Avatar.

She was no longer the Avatar at that point, so this is a moot point.
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Ikkin
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« Reply #51 on: Jul 16, 2015 05:51 am »

How does the world return to normal?

I dunno. It returned to normal right after Raava won with a fanatical anarchist popping up within a year, followed by a ruthless tyrant. It didn't feel very 10k years of light if you ask me  Tongue.

10k years of light doesn't change human nature, unfortunately.  The era Wan brought was a Raava era, too, and we all know how that turned out.  We have no idea what a Vaatu era would be like, except that (according to Raava), humans probably wouldn't survive it.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #52 on: Jul 16, 2015 06:59 am »

How does the world return to normal?

I dunno. It returned to normal right after Raava won with a fanatical anarchist popping up within a year, followed by a ruthless tyrant. It didn't feel very 10k years of light if you ask me  Tongue.

10k years of light doesn't change human nature, unfortunately.  The era Wan brought was a Raava era, too, and we all know how that turned out.  We have no idea what a Vaatu era would be like, except that (according to Raava), humans probably wouldn't survive it.

Something tells me that Vaatu's era wouldn't look much different  Tongue. At this rate, humans won't survive Raava's era either.
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« Reply #53 on: Jul 16, 2015 09:51 am »

I imagine all the spirits would become corrupted or influenced by Vaatu, creating another war, in which the humans would most likely lose.
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Riptide
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« Reply #54 on: Jul 16, 2015 10:43 am »

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I dunno. It returned to normal right after Raava won with a fanatical anarchist popping up within a year, followed by a ruthless tyrant. It didn't feel very 10k years of light if you ask me  Tongue
If Vaatu wins the entire world would be covered in dark spirits and a dark sky. If Raava wins no dark spirits obviously...I already stated this before  Angry

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She was no longer the Avatar at that point, so this is a moot point.
Wow...She obviously was the Avatar if she could bend ALL four of the elements and connect to cosmic energy. Just because Raava is gone doesn't mean she lost her powers. If you watched the Wan Arc you would know that her powers are permanent. In book 4 wasn't  Raava was gone until the episode Beyond the spirit Wilds? Korra still could go into Avatar state and all, so what you said is moot.

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Something tells me that Vaatu's era wouldn't look much different  Tongue. At this rate, humans won't survive Raava's era either.
Something tells me you didn't watch book 2 finale. Or you missed the part where dark spirits were everywhere and Vaatu was destroying Republic City with vines. I mean come on, if the world wasn't gonna change why did anyone even care to stop Vaatu?

« Last Edit: Jul 16, 2015 10:47 am by Riptide » Logged
AtoMaki
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« Reply #55 on: Jul 16, 2015 11:13 am »

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I dunno. It returned to normal right after Raava won with a fanatical anarchist popping up within a year, followed by a ruthless tyrant. It didn't feel very 10k years of light if you ask me  Tongue
If Vaatu wins the entire world would be covered in dark spirits and a dark sky.

There is no evidence in the show that this would have ever happened. But, like, none. Just like how Raava didn't bring 10k years of peace and harmony, Vaatu wouldn't have brought 10k years of chaos and destruction. At the very best, he could have pulled an Ozai and go on a one-day rampage until the HC ended and Vaatu lost his power. After that, the Red Lotus/Kuvira/Jinora/whatever would have destroyed him.

For me, it tells a lot about Vaatu's threat that nobody outside of the main cast did at least as much as lift a finger. Even the Air Lion Turtle needed a little nudge to do something, and Vaatu had been terrorizing the Proto Air Nomads just a few moments ago.

She obviously was the Avatar if she could bend ALL four of the elements and connect to cosmic energy. Just because Raava is gone doesn't mean she lost her powers. In book 4 wasn't  Raava was gone until the episode Beyond the spirit Wilds? Korra still could go into Avatar state and all, so what you said is moot.

In Book 4, Raava wasn't gone, just Korra couldn't connect with her. Big difference. In Book 2, Raava was gone-gone, and even Korra notes that Raava is super-dead:
Quote from: Korra
Haven't you heard anything I said? Raava is gone. I'm not connected to a spirit anymore.
You can connect to the comical energies and bend the four elements without being the Avatar. The former only require you to be spiritual, while the latter is available for anyone who feels special enough:
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Wan: Great Lion Turtle, I ask that you grant me the power of air so that I can defeat Vaatu before it's too late.
Air Lion Turtle: You already carry the power of fire. No human has ever held two elements at the same time.
Wan: I'm not like other humans. I can learn to do it.
Air Lion Turtle: Hmm, perhaps. But to do so, Raava must hold the power for you until you master it.

Quote
Something tells me that Vaatu's era wouldn't look much different  Tongue. At this rate, humans won't survive Raava's era either.
Something tells me you didn't watch book 2 finale. Or you missed the part where dark spirits were everywhere and Vaatu was destroying Republic City with vines. I mean come on, if the world wasn't gonna change why did anyone even care to stop Vaatu?[/quote]

Nobody cared to stop Vaatu, only Raava. One would think that if Vaatu was such a big threat, then at least someone would have offered at least some token help to Raava (or fight Vaatu). Or something. But no, people only noticed these two when they fought on their turf.
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« Reply #56 on: Jul 16, 2015 12:05 pm »

Quote
There is no evidence in the show that this would have ever happened. But, like, none. Just like how Raava didn't bring 10k years of peace and harmony, Vaatu wouldn't have brought 10k years of chaos and destruction. At the very best, he could have pulled an Ozai and go on a one-day rampage until the HC ended and Vaatu lost his power. After that, the Red Lotus/Kuvira/Jinora/whatever would have destroyed him.

For me, it tells a lot about Vaatu's threat that nobody outside of the main cast did at least as much as lift a finger. Even the Air Lion Turtle needed a little nudge to do something, and Vaatu had been terrorizing the Proto Air Nomads just a few moments ago.
Pure evidence is that after Unalaq beat Korra he proceeded to destroy Republic City while the dark spirits were still loose. Raava brings 10k years of spiritual peace than, think about it... After Vaatu was defeated not a single dark spirit is seen afterwards. Nobody did anything because of the plot, and Reiko said he had to keep the military in the city to protect it, Water tribe was allied with Dark Spirits, none of the other nations knew about Vaatu! The only people to have seen Vaatu were the citizens of RC but they were running for there lives...what could they do?!

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In Book 4, Raava wasn't gone, just Korra couldn't connect with her. Big difference. In Book 2, Raava was gone-gone, and even Korra notes that Raava is super-dead:
Whatever I didn't remember the exact line. How could Korra bend the elements if Raava wasn't there to hold them???

Quote
You can connect to the comical energies and bend the four elements without being the Avatar. The former only require you to be spiritual, while the latter is available for anyone who feels special enough
Oh really? What evidence do you have to support that anyone can do that? The Guru that taught Aang to master the Avatar state said that only Avatars could do such a thing. Korra was still able to bend all four elements because she still has the avatar powers bonded with her, if any regular human could do that than why did they make such a big deal about Avatars only being able to obtain that power.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #57 on: Jul 16, 2015 12:17 pm »

Quote
There is no evidence in the show that this would have ever happened. But, like, none. Just like how Raava didn't bring 10k years of peace and harmony, Vaatu wouldn't have brought 10k years of chaos and destruction. At the very best, he could have pulled an Ozai and go on a one-day rampage until the HC ended and Vaatu lost his power. After that, the Red Lotus/Kuvira/Jinora/whatever would have destroyed him.

For me, it tells a lot about Vaatu's threat that nobody outside of the main cast did at least as much as lift a finger. Even the Air Lion Turtle needed a little nudge to do something, and Vaatu had been terrorizing the Proto Air Nomads just a few moments ago.
Pure evidence is that after Unalaq beat Korra he proceeded to destroy Republic City while the dark spirits were still loose. Raava brings 10k years of spiritual peace than, think about it... After Vaatu was defeated not a single dark spirit is seen afterwards. Nobody did anything because of the plot, and Reiko said he had to keep the military in the city to protect it, Water tribe was allied with Dark Spirits, none of the other nations knew about Vaatu! The only people to have seen Vaatu were the citizens of RC but they were running for there lives...what could they do?!

I'm thinking more along the line of the spirits fighting Vaatu or at least show some concern. Yet, Spirit!Iroh was the only one who at least mentioned the problem. The Proto Air Nomads also knew about Raava, yet did nothing to help her or even offer assistance.

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In Book 4, Raava wasn't gone, just Korra couldn't connect with her. Big difference. In Book 2, Raava was gone-gone, and even Korra notes that Raava is super-dead:
Whatever I didn't remember the exact line. How could Korra bend the elements if Raava wasn't there to hold them???

Oh really? What evidence do you have to support that anyone can do that? The Guru that taught Aang to master the Avatar state said that only Avatars could do such a thing. Korra was still able to bend all four elements because she still has the avatar powers bonded with her, if any regular human could do that than why did they make such a big deal about Avatars only being able to obtain that power.

As the Air Lion Turtle said: Raava only had to keep the other three bending powers until Wan mastered them. After that, Wan could have used them on his own. It seems that multi-bending is an ability available for anyone, the trick is gaining all four bending powers and having a cool spirit buddy to help you.
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« Reply #58 on: Jul 16, 2015 02:17 pm »

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I'm thinking more along the line of the spirits fighting Vaatu or at least show some concern. Yet, Spirit!Iroh was the only one who at least mentioned the problem. The Proto Air Nomads also knew about Raava, yet did nothing to help her or even offer assistance
How could they fight against someone who can turn them to his side just by being around them. Vaatu would destroy them, no other spirit has shown the power to stop him, unless they wanna steal his face. Aang in the avatar state was easily able to defeat General Old Iron, a giant spirit. Avatar state is Raava's/Vaatu's power.

Quote
As the Air Lion Turtle said: Raava only had to keep the other three bending powers until Wan mastered them. After that, Wan could have used them on his own. It seems that multi-bending is an ability available for anyone, the trick is gaining all four bending powers and having a cool spirit buddy to help you.
Incorrect! Raava had to keep the elements, but not until Wan mastered them! Even after he mastered them he still required Raava to switch them out when he was fighting Vaatu. He was only able to permanently use them all when Raava fused with him and took power from Harmonic Convergence


No regular human is gonna be able to bend all four elements unless Vaatu or Raava enters there body and takes energy from Harmonic Convergence. OHHH WAIT. Aren't all the lion turtles dead now? Looks like no one will be able to get more than one element. Shocked
« Last Edit: Jul 16, 2015 02:25 pm by Riptide » Logged
AtoMaki
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« Reply #59 on: Jul 16, 2015 03:02 pm »

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I'm thinking more along the line of the spirits fighting Vaatu or at least show some concern. Yet, Spirit!Iroh was the only one who at least mentioned the problem. The Proto Air Nomads also knew about Raava, yet did nothing to help her or even offer assistance
How could they fight against someone who can turn them to his side just by being around them. Vaatu would destroy them, no other spirit has shown the power to stop him, unless they wanna steal his face. Aang in the avatar state was easily able to defeat General Old Iron, a giant spirit. Avatar state is Raava's/Vaatu's power.

Well, it is not like any spirit actually tried to do anything. They either just succumbed to his influence, or LOLNOPE'd (the yelow bird sirit, for example, just swooped in, saved Korra, and left with her).

Incorrect! Raava had to keep the elements, but not until Wan mastered them! Even after he mastered them he still required Raava to switch them out when he was fighting Vaatu. He was only able to permanently use them all when Raava fused with him and took power from Harmonic Convergence

I was never said that Wan actually managed to master the elements. Also, I'm not exactly sure what Raava tried to achieve in general... she had some divine luck with Wan, but that was a pretty scary amount of eggs in one basket. Sometimes I had this odd feeling that even Raava didn't take this whole fight with Vaatu very seriously, and she had many good giggles behind Wan's back.

OHHH WAIT. Aren't all the lion turtles dead now? Looks like no one will be able to get more than one element. Shocked

Bless the heavens for this. That stupid retcon was bad enough TBH  Tongue.
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« Reply #60 on: Jul 16, 2015 05:36 pm »

Quote
Well, it is not like any spirit actually tried to do anything. They either just succumbed to his influence, or LOLNOPE'd (the yelow bird sirit, for example, just swooped in, saved Korra, and left with her).
Hmm I just realized that... Unalaq had the power to turn Jinora's spirit dark, maybe he didn't see it coming.

Quote
I was never said that Wan actually managed to master the elements. Also, I'm not exactly sure what Raava tried to achieve in general... she had some divine luck with Wan, but that was a pretty scary amount of eggs in one basket. Sometimes I had this odd feeling that even Raava didn't take this whole fight with Vaatu very seriously, and she had many good giggles behind Wan's back.
Did it really have to say that he did. Before he got them he said he would train everyday to master them before Harmonic Convergence, then they showed training sequences. He went into battle pretty confident too. He mastered Fire that's for sure. Raava was growing too weak, which was stupid to me. If Vaatu can turn spirits dark and your his opposite... turn them light again.

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Bless the heavens for this. That stupid retcon was bad enough TBH
What was retconed exactly?
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« Reply #61 on: Jul 16, 2015 05:54 pm »

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So, I'm confused, do Spirits falls apart when you kick or slap them and Hei Bai is simply made of Spirit Iron, or does LoK have shenanigans going on with its portrayal of things established in ATLA?
Its durability, not every spirit can tank being hit by certain things. Earlier I posted a picture of a spirit completely being destroyed by a fireball, while Vaatu was able to regenerate, and apparently the Immunity spirit shown in the first episode wasn't even affected by anything.

So you're saying Hei Bai is made of spirit iron.


This Kyoshi thread is lacking Kyoshi, by a lot.

And Book 2: Spirits isn't a healthy support basis, by a lot.

Agreed on both points. Cheesy
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« Reply #62 on: Jul 17, 2015 12:45 am »

Pure evidence is that after Unalaq beat Korra he proceeded to destroy Republic City while the dark spirits were still loose. Raava brings 10k years of spiritual peace than, think about it... After Vaatu was defeated not a single dark spirit is seen afterwards. Nobody did anything because of the plot, and Reiko said he had to keep the military in the city to protect it, Water tribe was allied with Dark Spirits, none of the other nations knew about Vaatu! The only people to have seen Vaatu were the citizens of RC but they were running for there lives...what could they do?!

Saying the only people that saw Vaatu were the people of Republic City is like saying that only millions of people saw a gigantic monster rampaging in their city and the rest of the world somehow doesn't know about it, so its obviously not a problem for them. 

Quote
I'm thinking more along the line of the spirits fighting Vaatu or at least show some concern. Yet, Spirit!Iroh was the only one who at least mentioned the problem. The Proto Air Nomads also knew about Raava, yet did nothing to help her or even offer assistance.

Because they are most likely scared of Vaatu because his presence and influence can turn them into feral creatures incapable of anything but destroying things. It's similar to why the spirits refused to get involved against Kuvira in Book 4. They thought they wouldn't be directly affected by Vaatu taking over the physical world. And why would the Proto Nomads be able to help Raava? They're only humans. They seem to venerate her as the spirit of light and acknowledge Vaatu as the spirit of darkness. So seeing as this is a conflict between two god-like spirits we're talking about, I doubt they could realistically do that much to help.

Quote
As the Air Lion Turtle said: Raava only had to keep the other three bending powers until Wan mastered them. After that, Wan could have used them on his own. It seems that multi-bending is an ability available for anyone, the trick is gaining all four bending powers and having a cool spirit buddy to help you.

That's not quite true. Wan can't use all four elements on his own because the strain on his body would kill him. Its the same for Korra. The Avatar needs Raava to be able to use all four without worry. Multi-bending isn't available to everyone because no normal human could handle that much strain on their bodies. The entire point of the Avatar is that they can.

The biggest example of this requirement is when Korra is only seen using waterbending or airbending after Vaatu destroys Raava and severs her connection to the past Avatars. The entire time she's fighting Vaatu, she's either using hand to hand, or waterbending. The reason she can still airbend is because she unlocked that on its own without developing it 'through' Raava, so to speak.

It was also shown with Wan that humans are capable of being able to use at most 2 elements on their own before the strain gets too much on their body. But in the present day, all the Lion Turtles are gone and so people are usually just born innately with 1 element or none.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #63 on: Jul 17, 2015 03:30 am »

Because they are most likely scared of Vaatu because his presence and influence can turn them into feral creatures incapable of anything but destroying things.

It was never shown that they were scared, or even cared. The spirit-dog-things followed Korra to Vaatu voluntary, the bird-spirit-thing carried Korra there, while Aye-Aye and co straight-out ignored Vaatu in favor of the humans. Even Raava noted that Vaatu needs a special something to control other spirits:
Quote
Raava: It's Vaatu. He's growing stronger, using their - Aye-Aye's - anger to turn them to his side.

Vaatu is a lot like the Spirit counterpart of Ozai: an angry jerk who can bully others into following him, and gains 99% of his threat rating from a single super-event that gives him incredible power for a day. The biggest difference between the two is that Ozai had competent/semi-competent henchmen (Azula, Zhao), while all Vaatu had were a bunch of lesser spirits.

That's not quite true. Wan can't use all four elements on his own because the strain on his body would kill him. Its the same for Korra. The Avatar needs Raava to be able to use all four without worry. Multi-bending isn't available to everyone because no normal human could handle that much strain on their bodies. The entire point of the Avatar is that they can.

The stress is coming from a spirit possessing a human, and not from holding all four elements. As Aye-Aye said:
Quote
Spirit Aye-Aye: Spirits are able to take over a human body for a short time. If I stayed in there any longer, I would've killed him, which I did consider.
« Last Edit: Jul 17, 2015 03:35 am by AtoMaki » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: Jul 17, 2015 07:03 am »

Quote
So you're saying Hei Bai is made of spirit iron.

Well we saw spirits take more damage than Hei Bai so there made of iron too.

Quote
Saying the only people that saw Vaatu were the people of Republic City is like saying that only millions of people saw a gigantic monster rampaging in their city and the rest of the world somehow doesn't know about it, so its obviously not a problem for them.  
Either way, Reiko said that he would have everything protected when Korra warned him before she left for the South Pole.Second Vaatu attacked by surprise, he just teleported there and started trashing everything. Even if the URN called for help from the other nations, they would not get there in time nor stand a chance against Vaatu! Of course
 they are gonna stand by and say that's there problem now we have our own nation to protect.

Quote
It was also shown with Wan that humans are capable of being able to use at most 2 elements on their own before the strain gets too much on their body. But in the present day, all the Lion Turtles are gone and so people are usually just born innately with 1 element or none.
No it wasn't. Korra was able to use all four of the elements even when Raava was gone. She never said anything about having two, or even after she defeated Vaatu, she didn't go -YES I can bend all four now!- But if you have some evidence to support what you said.
« Last Edit: Jul 17, 2015 07:09 am by Riptide » Logged
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« Reply #65 on: Jul 18, 2015 12:02 pm »

I thought the reason Korra could still bend all four elements was because of the essence Raava left. Like when a spirit possesses a human, they leave a trace of themselves on them (as shown with one of the hunters.) I guess in Korra's case, it was whatever allowed her to bend the elements instead of a physical trace.
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« Reply #66 on: Jul 20, 2015 09:39 am »

Why the heck is there no kyoshi in the kyoshi thread? Get back on topic, if we ever were on topic. The current conversation seems more something for a Raava&Vaatu thread or the inconsistencies thread in angry spirits.
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« Reply #67 on: Oct 12, 2018 06:15 pm »

Over three years later, Aang Ehasz shed some light on the apparent ages of the Past Avatars who appear to the current Avatar.

We were all wrong, but I like it.
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« Reply #68 on: Oct 14, 2018 10:13 am »

Me too. Now I want to see it used in fan fiction.

One problem I had with the fan explanation is that who determines the "peak" of an Avatar's career? Is there a celestial bureaucracy that picks the appearance you'll get in the afterlife based on what they determine were the best years of your life?
« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2018 10:16 am by Colonel_Brian » Logged
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