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Author Topic: [DH Comics #10] Smoke and Shadow, Part 1  (Read 12341 times)
Polaris
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I've waited 13 years...


« Reply #50 on: Oct 10, 2015 09:28 am »

I loved the comic personally. Why is everyone baffled that Zuko redirected some fire and it turned purple? He was deemed worthy by dragons for a reason and he already excelled at extinguishing flames anyway. Then alot of time has passed as well. That just shows how powerful Zuko is but people still try and compare him to King Bumi, He isn't Bumi. He held his own against Ghazan off screen and Bryke didn't want him 'stealing the spotlight'

Mai going for that one guy was unexpected but I don't even care. I now believe Ty Lee will end up with Zuko. Or just some girl.

I give this a 9.
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2015 09:33 am by Polaris » Logged

Cybersun
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« Reply #51 on: Oct 10, 2015 08:58 pm »

I loved the comic personally. Why is everyone baffled that Zuko redirected some fire and it turned purple? He was deemed worthy by dragons for a reason and he already excelled at extinguishing flames anyway. Then alot of time has passed as well. That just shows how powerful Zuko is but people still try and compare him to King Bumi, He isn't Bumi. He held his own against Ghazan off screen and Bryke didn't want him 'stealing the spotlight'

Mai going for that one guy was unexpected but I don't even care. I now believe Ty Lee will end up with Zuko. Or just some girl.

I give this a 9.
i'm pretty sure that mai and zuko will get back together, but if they somehow don't end up together my bet is that him and suki will pair up.
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The_Xov
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« Reply #52 on: Oct 10, 2015 09:19 pm »

I finally read it and I liked it. To those that think Mai was to OC acting all sweet and calling Kei Lo babe, well that was  makes it so funny,


It wasn't OOC because she was faking it. She wasn't really serious.


How the hell are people actually missing the fact that Mai's faking it?  Ty Lee even calls her out on it twice in the comic.

Mai going for that one guy was unexpected but I don't even care. I now believe Ty Lee will end up with Zuko. Or just some girl.
I take issue with that comment!  Obviously she will use her adorable love-heals-mental-disease wiles to steal Katara from Aang, sex her to death, and then with Aang permanently indisposed by grief, she can finally pounce on her true target.

Ty Lappa 4 Lyfe!

xD

Or Ty Laang since that wouldn't actually be gross. lol
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2015 09:22 pm by The_Xov » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: Oct 11, 2015 04:34 am »


I agree with the first one, but I'm hoping the second doesn't come quite so quickly. I'd much rather see Azula on the path to mending things, but clearly with a long way to go.


Please remove the img tag when quoting images next time. ~ Icy

Yes, it would be OOC for Azula to just fall into her mother's arms crying at the end. Maybe if her path to redemption was established better in the Search, it would have worked. But, as she is now, she is a still a crazyperson with extensive mommy and daddy issues. I serously doubt the remaining two comics will have the ability the resolve all those in a satisfactory way.

I loved the comic personally. Why is everyone baffled that Zuko redirected some fire and it turned purple? He was deemed worthy by dragons for a reason and he already excelled at extinguishing flames anyway. Then alot of time has passed as well. That just shows how powerful Zuko is but people still try and compare him to King Bumi, He isn't Bumi. He held his own against Ghazan off screen and Bryke didn't want him 'stealing the spotlight'


Yes! Finally someone agrees with me on this. First off, Zuko has never been portrayed as the best firebender. What he lakced in pure skill, he made up for with determination and willpower and refusing to give up (all these were very clearly established in AtlA). So when the dragons deemed him worthy, I think those were their reasons for doing so. Now, what he did in this comic was impressive because of those qualities. No one bats an eye at Azula being excellent at firebending, because she was established as a firebending prodigy. What Zuko did in this comic shows how far he's come. Now, in Lok, he could hold his ground as an old man but  wasn't able to defeat the red lotus guys. So what? That doesn't mean he's weak. That just means he's not King Bumi strong (which he was never implied to be) and that the red lotus is a force to be reckoned with (as main villains for that book, that was necessary to convey). And again, many people tend to forget that in LoK Zuko is not a main chracter. He is not even a supporting character. He just has a few cameos as a nod to the fandom, I guess. So him "stealing the spotlight" would have been redundant. He has a whole other show where he is a central part of the story. He didn't need to have a "big moment" or anything in LoK (still, they gave one to Toph in book 4 and way more screentime in general, which was nice but equally unnecessary) .
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2015 04:52 am by Revolutionary Airbender » Logged
Loopy
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« Reply #54 on: Oct 12, 2015 06:30 pm »

My problem with the rainbow fire is that it (as is usual for Gene Yang's stuff) undermines the setting for a "cool" moment with no meaning. The Dragons were supposed to be ancient Firebenders on a completely different level than anyone else, as evidenced by how even the Sun Warriors and/or Iroh weren't throwing rainbow fire around. It was supposed to be something special, not as a sign of strength or Firebending prowess, but as true spiritual oneness with the concept of Fire and all of its many aspects.

So what does it mean that Zuko can make rainbow fire? Has he reached a point of Spiritual Ascension beyond any known human? Has he reached spiritual Nirvana, True Wisdom, that he can see to the heart of any situation and stand as a stone against the winds of the world? Does he understand Fire so fundamentally that his physical being has become one with it?

Rainbow Fire is now apparently nothing more than the new "over 9000!"

Congrats, Zuko. You are over 9000. Whatever that even means.

Maybe in the next comic, Gene will introduce "Omega Benders," who are totally 1337.
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The_Xov
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« Reply #55 on: Oct 16, 2015 06:21 am »

My problem with the rainbow fire is that it (as is usual for Gene Yang's stuff) undermines the setting for a "cool" moment with no meaning. The Dragons were supposed to be ancient Firebenders on a completely different level than anyone else, as evidenced by how even the Sun Warriors and/or Iroh weren't throwing rainbow fire around. It was supposed to be something special, not as a sign of strength or Firebending prowess, but as true spiritual oneness with the concept of Fire and all of its many aspects.

So what does it mean that Zuko can make rainbow fire? Has he reached a point of Spiritual Ascension beyond any known human? Has he reached spiritual Nirvana, True Wisdom, that he can see to the heart of any situation and stand as a stone against the winds of the world? Does he understand Fire so fundamentally that his physical being has become one with it?

Rainbow Fire is now apparently nothing more than the new "over 9000!"

Congrats, Zuko. You are over 9000. Whatever that even means.

Maybe in the next comic, Gene will introduce "Omega Benders," who are totally 1337.
Oh no...  Gene Yang is turning the Avatar comics franchise into a lite-Shounin! Sad
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« Reply #56 on: Oct 16, 2015 09:34 am »

Thank you Loopy. I just felt that it was over the top. Heck not even Zuko's dragon is shown to bend multi-colored flames.
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ahintoflime
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« Reply #57 on: Oct 16, 2015 04:05 pm »

not even Zuko's dragon is shown to bend multi-colored flames.
That dragon is still young. It hasn't been banished and forced to capture Avatar and regain its honor with its sister spouting lies and getting too close for comfort.
« Last Edit: Oct 16, 2015 06:38 pm by ahintoflime » Logged
Red Hawk
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« Reply #58 on: Oct 16, 2015 05:12 pm »

My problem with the rainbow fire is that it (as is usual for Gene Yang's stuff) undermines the setting for a "cool" moment with no meaning. The Dragons were supposed to be ancient Firebenders on a completely different level than anyone else, as evidenced by how even the Sun Warriors and/or Iroh weren't throwing rainbow fire around. It was supposed to be something special, not as a sign of strength or Firebending prowess, but as true spiritual oneness with the concept of Fire and all of its many aspects.

So what does it mean that Zuko can make rainbow fire? Has he reached a point of Spiritual Ascension beyond any known human? Has he reached spiritual Nirvana, True Wisdom, that he can see to the heart of any situation and stand as a stone against the winds of the world? Does he understand Fire so fundamentally that his physical being has become one with it?

Rainbow Fire is now apparently nothing more than the new "over 9000!"

Congrats, Zuko. You are over 9000. Whatever that even means.

Maybe in the next comic, Gene will introduce "Omega Benders," who are totally 1337.

It's...just a cool moment and a callback to the series?  I dunno.  I think you're reading a bit too much into it.  The fact that the dragons are the only ones who have used multicolored fire doesn't necessarily mean that they must be the only ones able to use multicolored fire at all.
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« Reply #59 on: Oct 16, 2015 05:30 pm »

But giving it to Zuko of all people? Why not Iroh or the sun warriors or even any of the Avatars? I can see why Azula was able to bend blue flames, but giving Zuko this new ability just cheapens his character in my opinion. It doesn't come off as him coming so far, it looks more like Zuko's got dragon fire, isn't he soo cool now guyz?!!
« Last Edit: Oct 16, 2015 07:10 pm by luvavatar » Logged
Loopy
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« Reply #60 on: Oct 16, 2015 06:25 pm »

It's...just a cool moment and a callback to the series?

That is literally the entirety of my point. Something that used to have meaning by implication is now meaningless, just so that a reference could be made and Zuko could be "cool."

(I should probably clarify: I did not find it cool. I never find it cool when characters shoot of an especially powerful blast of energy. Moments of cleverness or special bravery are cool to me. A protagonist having more power than other people and then using that to impose their will on them is something that's too uncomfortable to be cool unless the author really knows what they're doing, and Gene Yang is no Grant Morrison.)

I dunno.  I think you're reading a bit too much into it.  The fact that the dragons are the only ones who have used multicolored fire doesn't necessarily mean that they must be the only ones able to use multicolored fire at all.

But what does the multicolored fire actually mean? What does it actually establish for Zuko? Why was it used, beyond Gene casting about blindly for something to spice up a fight with faceless mooks?

Like I said. All it means is that Zuko is over 9000. And because "power levels" aren't really a thing that matters in Avatar; the three levels previously established were: Not Strong, Strong, and Avatar State. All the rainbow fire did was establish Zuko as Strong. Honestly, I think his post-Firebending Masters performances already did that.

So something special was taken away from the dragons for no reason, and the only thing that can be said in defense is, "Well, no one explicitly said that non-dragons can't do it, whatever it is."

I mean, really? This is the point we're at with these comics? Trying to justify a mildly "cool" moment that has no meaning and serves no purpose and trashes a special implication from elsewhere in the lore, just because we can't find a line of dialogue explicitly ruling it out?



But giving it to Zuko of all people? Why not Iroh or the sun warriors or even any of the Avatars? I can see why Azula was able to bend blue flames, but giving Zuko this new ability just cheapens his character in my opinion. It doesn't come off as him coming so far, it looks more like Zuko's got dragon fire, isn't he soon cool now guyz?!!

At this point, I wonder if Gene is baiting us with 'ironic' evidence that Zuko is his Gary Stue. I'm suspicious of how easy it is to make the case. Cheesy
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Polaris
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« Reply #61 on: Oct 17, 2015 09:39 am »

Ugh Luvavatar you act as if it is the end if the world. Zuko has mastered the Dancing Dragon and has been deemed worthy by the dragon stare. Rainbow Fire is the most powerful thing in the world...because it is slightly purple and green. Totally a reason to hate the show because a character you deem weak knows how to redirect some fire in the shape of a tornado.

You have a problem that Iroh or Druk didn't make a rainbow. As shown in the comic, it's only a redirection thing. It's not like he casually shoots rainbows of death each time he bends. I am certain anyone could do that, especially Iroh.

Fingers crossed that Zuko learns lightning too. Heck lets even throw in some flying! That'll really piss off some people right? I hope Katara learns to bloodbend anytime and fly with ice(oh wait).

Complaining about power growth isn't the way. Ming-Hua went from two arms to full all out rape monster against Mako, did that tick anyone off? Or when Korra can all of a sudden bend enough water ti freeze the Colossus without avatar state?
« Last Edit: Oct 17, 2015 09:44 am by Polaris » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: Oct 17, 2015 10:26 am »

Complaining about power growth isn't the way.
Or when

Let's not bring Korra into this. Best go have some coffee with cream or something. Because I'll tell you something, this is a happy place.
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« Reply #63 on: Oct 17, 2015 11:28 am »

Ugh Luvavatar you act as if it is the end if the world. Zuko has mastered the Dancing Dragon and has been deemed worthy by the dragon stare. Rainbow Fire is the most powerful thing in the world...because it is slightly purple and green. Totally a reason to hate the show because a character you deem weak knows how to redirect some fire in the shape of a tornado.

You have a problem that Iroh or Druk didn't make a rainbow. As shown in the comic, it's only a redirection thing. It's not like he casually shoots rainbows of death each time he bends. I am certain anyone could do that, especially Iroh.

Fingers crossed that Zuko learns lightning too. Heck lets even throw in some flying! That'll really piss off some people right? I hope Katara learns to bloodbend anytime and fly with ice(oh wait).


Complaining about power growth isn't the way. Ming-Hua went from two arms to full all out rape monster against Mako, did that tick anyone off? Or when Korra can all of a sudden bend enough water ti freeze the Colossus without avatar state?
This is NOT growth, it's just a cheap way to try to bolster up the image of a character that the comic writers may have felt was too "weak" in the show. If he was just re-directing the flames, fine. Giving him this rainbow fire is just over the top. I love the show, I don't like the comics. Having Ming-Hua suddenly have a ton of water arms is not the same thing, she did that when she was going against Kya and she was already stated to be one of the world's most dangerous benders.
« Last Edit: Oct 17, 2015 11:37 am by luvavatar » Logged
Polaris
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« Reply #64 on: Oct 17, 2015 11:54 am »

Ha! You say it isn't growth right? I suppose you think Aang and Katara received that same bolster to be more appealing. Tell me exactly why you have a problem with 'rainbow'. It's just a color, not like it has the power to destroy the world. You seem to think the person that was fully capable of taking on every protagonist from the start of book 1 is weak. How was he weak in your eyes? Why is the color of fire get you so worked up? Did you not like Azula's fire? It was already stated he is a fusion of two powerful bloodlines and he is Firelord, same reason Azula's fire is blue.

Nope. Ming-Hua out of no where did her octo killer form for the sake of appeal, the finale showed her water spouting as well. You say she was capable of doing that because of her rank has world's most dangerous water bender? If you believe that, than why do you deny Zuko's power as a Royal member of the Fire Nation?! You must think that everyone but Zuko is allowed to show insane mastery of there element. You've seen his sister and his father! He obviously had to inherit some power along with being trained by Iroh.

What about Eska and Desna? Two mediocre benders that could create a ice forest and still get stomped? That was to make them look cool but they always sucked.
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« Reply #65 on: Oct 17, 2015 12:08 pm »

Aang, Katara and Azula were already stated to be prodigies and were shown to ALWAYS have a tremendous amount of raw power, even from the very beginning. Katara wasn't a great bender in the beginning of the show and yet in the first episode she inadvertently shattered an iceberg. Zuko's strength was in his resourcefulness and how he never gave up even with the odds stacked against him, that's what made him admirable.

Ming-Hua only did the octopus form when her opponents had proven difficult to beat, she did an ice drill when she broke P'li out of the prison. So I don't see how it's the same thing as what Zuko did. Eska and Desna being mediocre? They were pretty strong in their own right as well, we even saw Eska riding a giant tidal wave to chase down Bolin.
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Polaris
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« Reply #66 on: Oct 17, 2015 01:30 pm »

Yeah there you go again. Katara showed no raw strength just because she put a few cracks in a ice berg and Aang's avatar light burst it open. You aren't even making sense. Apparently being a Prodigy means you are unstoppable in your book? Please explain why Zuko constantly gave Aang, Katara, and anyone else in his way trouble. Apparently his raw power matches there, who cares if he wasn't a 'prodigy'. Explain why Katara struggled to beat him while he was exhausted at night, how did he one hit k.o such a prodigy? Same goes for Aang.

I don't even know what else to tell you. Zuko was always a good fighter and he was just as powerful as Aang from the start! You try to make it out as if he was some weakling that never gave up.

As I'll tell you once again. Zuko only sucked when compared to Azula in terms of firebending. Trying to tell me he wasn't born with any power but Azula was? Lol okay. Zuko is a master, period. He was always equal to anyone in the show save for Azula until book 3.

Ming Hua only used octopus form against strong opponents? Thats the funniest excuse ever. I guess this can be applied to Zuko as well, right!? Ozai society were strong in numbers and threatened his family so he unleashed his full power.

Eska and Desna are powerful alone?...Your proof of this is that Eska can run on water? Wow, even Aang did that with airbending. If they are as powerful as you proclaim, Tell me how they lost to Ming Hua TOGETHER. How did they lose to Korra together? Why did Mako and Bolin make them look stupid at the spirit portal. They are average benders that perfer to team up, and yet they suck.
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« Reply #67 on: Oct 17, 2015 01:51 pm »

And there YOU go again with your diatribe on why my OPINION on a FICTIONAL series is wrong. You like that Zuko is now this powerful master firebender that can now do some fantastic tricks, I think it's gimmicky and takes down his character, so what? How is it an excuse with what Ming Hua did? She only went to her more powerful state when her regular attacks weren't working that well. Before those fights with Kya and Mako nobody was able to touch her. Then when it happened she changed her tactics.

Korra wasn't even able to knock the twins down in her fight with them, even while launching a massive waterspout, the twins aren't exactly weaklings. But I digress on this issue and neither of us is going to change the other one's stance so let's drop it before either one of us gets banned.
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Polaris
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« Reply #68 on: Oct 17, 2015 04:02 pm »

Yeah I am done with this argument as well. Zuko wasn't made a master in the comics Luvavatar, he was officially one since book 2-3.

Twins are mediocre and you should watch that fight again, she was beating them until the spirit interrupted.

No one could touch Ming-Hua before her fight with Mako and Kya? Well duh, she only battled White Lotus and the twins who did terrible.
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« Reply #69 on: Oct 17, 2015 04:17 pm »

You say you're done, then you add in three partings shots? That's not "I'm done", that's, "I'm thumbing my nose at you."  Roll Eyes

Anyways - maybe the whole multicolor thing is overblown, on more thought? Perhaps it's something that can't be controlled when it happens - if you try to "force" it, then it won't work. Just like they tried to force the Avatar State in Book 2: Earth. You technically can there, but it's a really bad idea. Something that humans can only make when you've got a high level of mastery over fire, and feel you are or are actually in great danger.

Such an explanation would easily explain why we didn't see any of it in TLOK!Zuko, and seems more reasonable. I hadn't thought of this angle before recently, and will only really agree with Loopy 100% if in the next comics we see Zuko wielding dragon's fire/multicolored flame in a controlled manner, bonus bad points and continuity breaking if (bearing in mind precedent setting of the comics chronologically even if they were released after TLOK) it's "super effective!" against bad people or spirits, like the Kemikurage.
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« Reply #70 on: Oct 17, 2015 04:26 pm »

Anyways - maybe the whole multicolor thing is overblown, on more thought?

It is. Or, to better say, it was somewhat poorly thought out, just like the "sistering" of the Kyoshi Warriors. It is kinda-sorta convenient for what it achieves in the story, but ultimately, it is also rather confusing without the proper context.
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Polaris
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« Reply #71 on: Oct 17, 2015 04:33 pm »

Meh. What's it to you? I said I was done, so I added in the last I had to say. Opinion is Opinion.

You didn't see Zuko rainbow firebending in LOK due to the fact he is weakened and the creators didn't want him to win against Ghazan.

Still no one has answered me on why they hate Zuko's firebending being 1% composed of two diffrent colors.
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« Reply #72 on: Oct 17, 2015 04:49 pm »

Why are we arguing this long about multi-colored fire? Imo, I really don't care too much about it since it really doesn't affect the story at all. I doubt the N.O.S were more concerned about the fact that only about what 10% tops of the fire was a shade of purple and green over Zuko managing to block all that fire and was ready to send it back at them with his own added to the mix.
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« Reply #73 on: Oct 17, 2015 05:31 pm »

I agree! Of all the things to focus on from this comic guys I think we should move on... I get what a lot of you mean about it being over the top but there are other more interesting things that have more relevance to the story.
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« Reply #74 on: Oct 17, 2015 06:34 pm »

Meh. What's it to you? I said I was done, so I added in the last I had to say. Opinion is Opinion.

You didn't see Zuko rainbow firebending in LOK due to the fact he is weakened and the creators didn't want him to win against Ghazan.

Still no one has answered me on why they hate Zuko's firebending being 1% composed of two diffrent colors.
Pretty sure I stated a few times why I personally disliked Zuko's multi-colored firebending. I think you mean nobody has given you a good enough reason on why they dislike it.
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