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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 87 (60.4%)
9 - 27 (18.8%)
8 - 11 (7.6%)
7 - 6 (4.2%)
6 - 2 (1.4%)
5 - 1 (0.7%)
4 - 3 (2.1%)
3 - 3 (2.1%)
2 - 0 (0%)
1 - 4 (2.8%)
Total Voters: 144

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Author Topic: [413] The Last Stand  (Read 57067 times)
The_Xov
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« Reply #825 on: Feb 14, 2015 07:03 pm »

I still can't believe that we not only accept but praise poor quality storytelling just because of representation.  I can't believe, as a liberal, that I am freaking mocking the concept of representation because a pair of creators decided it was better to serve a demographic like a slave than to tell a good story.  I can't believe I'm living in a world where representation is more important than anything else and that anything that doesn't fall in lock-step with the simple idea of having representation thrown into something means that he/she who is making/supporting the production is a freaking bigot that-

...

Tangent.  Shutting down...

...

Rebooting...

...

Ugh.  I don't know why I'm so pissed off about this.  I normally hate romance because I see it as less of a search for a legitimate mate for personal companionship and the beginning of a family unit, and more of an excuse to ... family forum, I won't finish that sentence.  More importantly, though, it seems like love for another mate, even when it's not just about sex, but is actually for companionship and such, seems to be the absolute be-all end-all goal for people.  Maybe it's just the vocal minority that I'm getting this from, but it seems like more and more, people put sooo much stock into finding a lover rather than developing a strong network of friends.  Not saying that romance doesn't have its place, but as a guy that's not romantically inclined or particularly interested in sex, it's frustrating to have that **** shoved in my face as if I'm a loon for not having some romantic interest or significant other.

Long-short, I don't see the value in it.

But I'm strangely starting to gain an interest in romance now, if only because my mind is screaming that we can't possibly live in a world where shoddily done "queer" romance is perfectly acceptable just because REPRESENTATION!

FFS, I'm straight and CIS and I'm freaking pissed off at this!

I need a shot of hope.  Could someone versed in this sort of thing point me towards a story where it's done right?  Surely it can't be that hard to do, I mean it's romance between two humans.  How hard can it be to write that, incorporation of stigmas, discrimination, and hardships notwithstanding?

I mean, overt, subtle, ambiguous - I don't care, I just want to know how it can be done right. lol
« Last Edit: Feb 14, 2015 07:17 pm by The_Xov » Logged

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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #826 on: Feb 15, 2015 06:30 am »

I like this fanfic very much, it was my gateway drug for romantic stories in general. It deals with a taboo subject, the relationship between a fully grown woman and a teenager who are also legal guardian and protegee, superior and worker. Then again, this is Evangelion we're talking about, can't expect healthiness anyway xD

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1259313/1/The-Lifespan-of-a-Love-Affair

I'm sure it counts as PG-13 or something. Give it a try.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #827 on: Feb 15, 2015 06:37 am »

Quote
I still can't believe that we not only accept but praise poor quality storytelling just because of representation.

Who's this we and us?

You do know that some people have no problems with the way romance was written right? Maybe those kind of people are a minority but they still exist. Just because you thought it was poor, forced, or whatever, doesn't mean that every human being on this planet is going to agree with that.

Quote
I can't believe, as a liberal, that I am freaking mocking the concept of representation because a pair of creators decided it was better to serve a demographic like a slave than to tell a good story.  I can't believe I'm living in a world where representation is more important than anything else and that anything that doesn't fall in lock-step with the simple idea of having representation thrown into something means that he/she who is making/supporting the production is a freaking bigot that-

You seriously need to take a break from this fandom, I've seen other posts where you go full on curse mode. This level of frustration can't be good, just ignore Legend of Korra for a while.
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2015 06:38 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
The_Xov
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« Reply #828 on: Feb 15, 2015 09:11 am »

Quote
I still can't believe that we not only accept but praise poor quality storytelling just because of representation.

Who's this we and us?

You do know that some people have no problems with the way romance was written right? Maybe those kind of people are a minority but they still exist. Just because you thought it was poor, forced, or whatever, doesn't mean that every human being on this planet is going to agree with that.

Quote
I can't believe, as a liberal, that I am freaking mocking the concept of representation because a pair of creators decided it was better to serve a demographic like a slave than to tell a good story.  I can't believe I'm living in a world where representation is more important than anything else and that anything that doesn't fall in lock-step with the simple idea of having representation thrown into something means that he/she who is making/supporting the production is a freaking bigot that-

You seriously need to take a break from this fandom, I've seen other posts where you go full on curse mode. This level of frustration can't be good, just ignore Legend of Korra for a while.
Honestly, that might be a good idea...

This may sound odd, but, as a reinforcer, is there a way to request a sort of mercy temp-ban?  If not from the entire forum, from the LoK area?  For about two weeks?
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #829 on: Feb 15, 2015 09:26 am »

Quote
I still can't believe that we not only accept but praise poor quality storytelling just because of representation.

Who's this we and us?

You do know that some people have no problems with the way romance was written right? Maybe those kind of people are a minority but they still exist. Just because you thought it was poor, forced, or whatever, doesn't mean that every human being on this planet is going to agree with that.

Quote
I can't believe, as a liberal, that I am freaking mocking the concept of representation because a pair of creators decided it was better to serve a demographic like a slave than to tell a good story.  I can't believe I'm living in a world where representation is more important than anything else and that anything that doesn't fall in lock-step with the simple idea of having representation thrown into something means that he/she who is making/supporting the production is a freaking bigot that-

You seriously need to take a break from this fandom, I've seen other posts where you go full on curse mode. This level of frustration can't be good, just ignore Legend of Korra for a while.
Honestly, that might be a good idea...

This may sound odd, but, as a reinforcer, is there a way to request a sort of mercy temp-ban?  If not from the entire forum, from the LoK area?  For about two weeks?

When this site goes super negative, I delete ASN from my browser so I'm not reminded of it everytime I type "a" in the browser and then return to it in a few months. You could try that.
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The_Xov
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« Reply #830 on: Feb 15, 2015 09:40 am »

Quote
I still can't believe that we not only accept but praise poor quality storytelling just because of representation.

Who's this we and us?

You do know that some people have no problems with the way romance was written right? Maybe those kind of people are a minority but they still exist. Just because you thought it was poor, forced, or whatever, doesn't mean that every human being on this planet is going to agree with that.

Quote
I can't believe, as a liberal, that I am freaking mocking the concept of representation because a pair of creators decided it was better to serve a demographic like a slave than to tell a good story.  I can't believe I'm living in a world where representation is more important than anything else and that anything that doesn't fall in lock-step with the simple idea of having representation thrown into something means that he/she who is making/supporting the production is a freaking bigot that-

You seriously need to take a break from this fandom, I've seen other posts where you go full on curse mode. This level of frustration can't be good, just ignore Legend of Korra for a while.
Honestly, that might be a good idea...

This may sound odd, but, as a reinforcer, is there a way to request a sort of mercy temp-ban?  If not from the entire forum, from the LoK area?  For about two weeks?

When this site goes super negative, I delete ASN from my browser so I'm not reminded of it everytime I type "a" in the browser and then return to it in a few months. You could try that.
Sure.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #831 on: Feb 15, 2015 05:24 pm »

Can someone who is into science explain this to me? Since Platinum is metal, why aren't metalbenders able to bend it?
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #832 on: Feb 15, 2015 05:49 pm »

Can someone who is into science explain this to me? Since Platinum is metal, why aren't metalbenders able to bend it?

Metalbenders don't bend the metal, but the impurities (small earth particles) in the metal. Platinum is a very pure metal however, with little to no impurities in it, so there is nothing the metalbenders can bend.

Or at least this is the creators' logic. The sad reality is that pure platinum is not just toxic, but also very weak, thus it is entirely impossible to build such large machines/objects out of it than in the show.
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2015 06:00 pm by AtoMaki » Logged

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« Reply #833 on: Feb 15, 2015 06:04 pm »

I guess I shouldn't question it too much. It is a fantasy show.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #834 on: Feb 15, 2015 06:08 pm »

I guess I shouldn't question it too much. It is a fantasy show.

It is odd, because there are metals that would fit for this purpose better, like Titanium.
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« Reply #835 on: Feb 15, 2015 06:15 pm »

Wouldn't building mecha-tanks, airships and the colossus be impossible no matter what they use though?
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Flipdark95
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« Reply #836 on: Feb 15, 2015 07:11 pm »

^ I don't see why it should be. They're all made out of different metals than just platinum. I thought it was always silly to think Hiroshi built his mecha tanks out of just platinum. Not only is that expensive, but as Atomaki just said, pure platinum is structurally weak and actually toxic.

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« Reply #837 on: Feb 15, 2015 07:21 pm »

I guess I shouldn't question it too much. It is a fantasy show.

It is odd, because there are metals that would fit for this purpose better, like Titanium.

I wonder why the writers didn't use a different type of metal then in place of platinum. Maybe they just didn't bother researching metals?
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The_Xov
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« Reply #838 on: Feb 15, 2015 07:35 pm »

^ I don't see why it should be. They're all made out of different metals than just platinum. I thought it was always silly to think Hiroshi built his mecha tanks out of just platinum. Not only is that expensive, but as Atomaki just said, pure platinum is structurally weak and actually toxic.


Okay, I can understand it being structually weak (it'd be the equivalent of using aluminum for tank armor, right?), but toxic?  Is it toxic to touch or something?  Or does it emit toxic fumes during the purification process?
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« Reply #839 on: Feb 15, 2015 09:57 pm »

I think that stupid-ass flailing of a retort did more to damage the ship than the rushed ending.

In fact, considering Nick actually authorized the ship at all, and the creators supposedly wanted to explore it at all...

WHY NOT ASK THE EXECS IF THEY COULD EXPLORE IT BEFORE THE END OF THE F***ING SERIES?!

To play the Devil's Advocate, maybe they were afraid of losing more support from Nick or getting canned if they pushed the envelope that hard? Violence is easier to show to children than non-hetero pairings of any type, so it's not an unreasonable fear.

I don't see why they'd be afraid of losing support for pushing the envelope, considering how hard they'd pushed other envelopes in the past (including bathing suits on 14-year-olds).  >_>;   
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« Reply #840 on: Feb 15, 2015 11:49 pm »

Where's this info on platinum being toxic come from? According to Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#Health_issues
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, short-term exposure to platinum salts may cause irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, and long-term exposure may cause both respiratory and skin allergies. The current OSHA standard is 2 micrograms per cubic meter of air averaged over an 8-hour work shift.[60]

Platinum-based antineoplastic agents are used in chemotherapy, and show good activity against some tumors.

As platinum is a catalyst in the manufacture of the silicone rubber and gel components of several types of medical implants (breast implants, joint replacement prosthetics, artificial lumbar discs, vascular access ports, etc.), the possibility platinum could enter the body and cause adverse effects has merited study. The Food and Drug Administration and other institutions have reviewed the issue and found no evidence to suggest toxicity in vivo.



I'm using platinum in a fanfic right now, and I'm trying to mix a realistic portrayal with the usage as depicted in LoK.
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Funkybender
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« Reply #841 on: Feb 16, 2015 01:30 am »

Right, the lack of focus on Asami and the paltry development at best of her relationship with Korra is on them. I'm proposing a possible explanation for why the pairing feels rushed and underdeveloped.

I think the simple explanation is

1. REPRESENTATION!!!

2. Korra and Asami's relationship is the token romance of the series (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenRomance).

It has no relation to the story. It can be taken out and nothing would change, and it only seems to be there to give two major characters a relationship to end the series with.

Basically the pairing feels rushed and underdeveloped because no effort was given to it to begin with. It was just included because some sort of romance for the main character is expected and good publicity for REPRESENTATION!!! just made Korrasami an easy choice for the obligatory romance.

I really hate to think that representation in and of itself is becoming an excuse for storytelling flaws. I don't believe the decision (or perhaps I WANT not to believe) was political (distinguishing political beliefs from one's personal beliefs in promoting acceptance here), but it's clear it functioned as an authorial mouthpiece.

I think that stupid-ass flailing of a retort did more to damage the ship than the rushed ending.

In fact, considering Nick actually authorized the ship at all, and the creators supposedly wanted to explore it at all...

WHY NOT ASK THE EXECS IF THEY COULD EXPLORE IT BEFORE THE END OF THE F***ING SERIES?!

To play the Devil's Advocate, maybe they were afraid of losing more support from Nick or getting canned if they pushed the envelope that hard? Violence is easier to show to children than non-hetero pairings of any type, so it's not an unreasonable fear.

I don't see why they'd be afraid of losing support for pushing the envelope, considering how hard they'd pushed other envelopes in the past (including bathing suits on 14-year-olds).  >_>;  

I think the worst that could have happened was a 'no' answer, and even that wouldn't have doomed the show. But I do think these situations are different solely because of perceived audience reception. Fanservice through skimpy-outfits on teenagers is not new, and neither are depictions of death. They may have been dicey by Nickelodeon standards, but they are not as controversial as the one they confirmed after the finale. That kind of relationship is still fairly new to TV in general, and I can conceive of some cases where the network might not be forward-thinking enough to allow portrayal of same-sex relationships. I don't think Nick was one of those networks.

Who knows, S&P of 2008 might have put the lid on over this sort of thing. We don't know. This doesn't excuse or justify poor writing, but if I were a creator I would view it as a legitimate concern.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #842 on: Feb 16, 2015 03:40 am »

Quote
I really hate to think that representation in and of itself is becoming an excuse for storytelling flaws. I don't believe the decision (or perhaps I WANT not to believe) was political (distinguishing political beliefs from one's personal beliefs in promoting acceptance here), but it's clear it functioned as an authorial mouthpiece.

I really don't think that Bryke considers their works the work of art of ultimate masterpiece. In fact, Bryan says that it falls short for actual proper representation in his post but since everyone is so deeply offended by the hetere-lens comment, no one cared to read into that more. A creator has the right to be defensive, they're not some Jesus to be able to please every single one us. And I don't think Bryan is upset with criticism, in the Book 3 commentaries, he said that everyone has every right to say whatever they want about their show.

Quote
Was it a slam-dunk victory for queer representation? I think it falls short of that, but hopefully it is a somewhat significant inching forward.

If I was Bryan or Mike, I would have disabled the comments too because If I were a creator and read all the toxic stuff people say about LoK, I'd honestly lose my self-esteem and consider myself the worst storyteller there ever is. Bryan has spent decades on Avatarverse, writing isn't the only thing that he does, he designed characters, locations, he drew storyboards. Don't you think it's natural for him to be a bit upset when someone goes "they did what fans asked them to do, they suck".

And I have a question about fanservice in general, if everyone hates it, why do we call this fanservice? Shouldn't it be fan-dis-service?
« Last Edit: Feb 16, 2015 03:49 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
AtoMaki
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« Reply #843 on: Feb 16, 2015 06:07 am »

Where's this info on platinum being toxic come from? According to Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#Health_issues
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, short-term exposure to platinum salts may cause irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, and long-term exposure may cause both respiratory and skin allergies. The current OSHA standard is 2 micrograms per cubic meter of air averaged over an 8-hour work shift.[60]

This is for normal platinum levels, like when you work with platinum-based catalysts and such. You will be barely around a fistful of platinum at any given time at worst. Now, compare this to being enclosed into a house-sized shell of platinum... Yeah, you will get an unhealthy dose very quickly.
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The_Xov
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« Reply #844 on: Feb 16, 2015 11:03 am »

I have a question about fanservice in general, if everyone hates it, why do we call this fanservice? Shouldn't it be fan-dis-service?
I think the thing with Fan Service or Pandering is the fact that the creator of a work often put themselves in a position where they appear to be trying too hard to please their audience members.  Sometimes it almost feels like a desperate bid to acquire praise from fans.  Ignoring Korrasami (for the next two weeks), examples of this that has rather backfired for the creators includes inserting Toph excessively into the fourth season, using throwing Iroh in that one scene in S3 (or was it S4) when he'd served his purpose in S2, and, possibly, Zuko, if only because the creators stripped Korra from the opportunity and agency to come to the decision to sacrifice herself to the Red Lotus on her own.

Fanservice isn't bad, IMO, if it still serves the plot in a away that feels organic upon and after initial viewing (I believe the first-half of The Beach fits this criteria).  When it feels contrived or is put in just to trigger hype, that's when it's bad.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #845 on: Feb 16, 2015 11:17 am »

I really don't care though, I liked seeing Katara, Zuko and Toph in LoK. And I certainly was very hyped about their appearances.

In fact, one of the complains that I've constantly heard is that Aang Squad didn't appear in the finale, like the White Lotus in Atla finale. Seems to me that majority of fans think that there wasn't enough fanservice.

Quote
Sometimes it almost feels like a desperate bid to acquire praise from fans.

I don't think Bryke are that desperate for praise and I firmly believe that they do not care how their show is perceived, be it praise or hate. Bryan mentions in his post that he was making Legend of Korra for himself first and foremost. And Bryke aren't the kind of people who would do something that they personally didn't want to happen in their show. They wanted to include adult Gaang, so they did. If they didn't want to, they wouldn't have done it. Same with Korrasami.
« Last Edit: Feb 16, 2015 11:20 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
Esperaholon
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« Reply #846 on: Feb 16, 2015 02:00 pm »

It is odd, because there are metals that would fit for this purpose better, like Titanium.

No. Just no. Pure!Titanium is a stupidly weak metal that conducts heat even better then Platinum. I still don't know why AS!Korra didn't just charbroil the stupid Gundum... or why no one bothered to bring up Electricity or why the horrible joints weren't attacked or AS!Korra didn't just sink the Gundum... I mean S1 shows that there are like massive tunnels under the City - it should have been easy to just sink it and the other mechas - and then threaten to overload the spirit canon with lightening if they don't give up.

...What? That Gundum and Wuss!Kuvira and Not!Korra continue to bother me.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #847 on: Feb 16, 2015 02:17 pm »

It is odd, because there are metals that would fit for this purpose better, like Titanium.

No. Just no. Pure!Titanium is a stupidly weak metal that conducts heat even better then Platinum.

Titanium would be better because its alloys are pure metal too. Also, titanium has worse thermal conductivity than carbon steel - platinum has an almost four times bigger thermal conductivity than titanium.
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