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Author Topic: Kuvira's Fate  (Read 12603 times)
WarriorMind556
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 07, 2014 02:44 pm »

Blown up by her own bomb?
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 07, 2014 03:04 pm »

Kuvira will get the Zhao treatment: eliminated by her own mess. As others mentioned above, I too think that she will fall victim to an unfortunate dubstep nuke. She won't get any redemption, that's for sure.
I don't know, she has been compared to Korra many times. If she isn't redeemed I would almost see it as a cop out considering the transformation Korra has had.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #27 on: Nov 07, 2014 04:09 pm »

Kuvira will get the Zhao treatment: eliminated by her own mess. As others mentioned above, I too think that she will fall victim to an unfortunate dubstep nuke. She won't get any redemption, that's for sure.
I don't know, she has been compared to Korra many times. If she isn't redeemed I would almost see it as a cop out considering the transformation Korra has had.

I disagree with the theory that Kuvira is a foil for Korra. She is clearly not "the old Korra", but more like an evil Korra+1. She doesn't just have all of Korra's positive attributes, but she lacks most of her flaws too (and even the remaining flaws aren't that bad for her). Kuvira is already past her transformation (when she left Zaofu to pacify the EK), and now she can only go either up or down.
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 07, 2014 04:33 pm »

They said ppride comes before a fall, and Kuvira certainly is swimming in it after getting to claim a victory over the Avatar. She may get another win since she'll need more vines, but it will probably be downhill from there.
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Fire Rose
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« Reply #29 on: Nov 07, 2014 04:41 pm »

^It's going to take one loss to have Kuvira's empire go downhill. The question is now what? If it's not Korra (unless it is and she's covering it up with false bravado because in all seriousness, Korra came pretty close when she was in the AS) then what could it be?
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« Reply #30 on: Nov 07, 2014 04:41 pm »

what I WANT to happen is for Kuvira to gain control of the entire Earth Empire and bring stability and balance without going all dictator on it like she is doing right now...

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« Reply #31 on: Nov 07, 2014 05:09 pm »

That ship has sailed. She's already gone the dictator route. She won't be able to go back on it, nor is she the type to unless someone knocks her down a few pegs.
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Goodfella
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 07, 2014 05:11 pm »

Kuvira will get the Zhao treatment: eliminated by her own mess. As others mentioned above, I too think that she will fall victim to an unfortunate dubstep nuke. She won't get any redemption, that's for sure.
I don't know, she has been compared to Korra many times. If she isn't redeemed I would almost see it as a cop out considering the transformation Korra has had.

I disagree with the theory that Kuvira is a foil for Korra. She is clearly not "the old Korra", but more like an evil Korra+1. She doesn't just have all of Korra's positive attributes, but she lacks most of her flaws too (and even the remaining flaws aren't that bad for her). Kuvira is already past her transformation (when she left Zaofu to pacify the EK), and now she can only go either up or down.

Bryke has outright said that Kuvira is meant to be a foil to Korra and a reflection of Korra's past self in interviews. A Korra that COULD have been, basically.

It's not hard to see Kuvira as someone who shared some traits with Korra and simply extended them. Just compare Kuvira in Su's flashback in 405 when she wanted to leave and help the EK with Korra in Book 2 even. Good intentions, but like how Korra was willing to put the Judge's head in Naga's mouth, Kuvira was willing to throw Varrick out a moving train; like Korra was willing to take the URN forces without Raikou's permission, Kuvira was took resources and people from Su to do what she wants. And above all, they both see themselves as a "big good" who have a job to do and those who get in their way get swatted - much like how Korra reacted to Mako and Tenzin not agreeing with her in book 2.

Basically, the biggest difference is Korra's already been swatted and forced to reflect. Kuvira's gotten what she wants and sees nothing wrong with her actions, hence the entitlement of "I always get what I want" and "people are resources for me to use how I see they fit best". IF Korra say, hadn't gotten stopped in Book 2 from running off with URN soldiers or hadn't had as many setbacks, it'd be easy to see her "I'm the Avatar and you have to deal with it!" attitude going in scary directions like Kuvira's going.

Hence part of why I still sort of want to see Kuvira redeem herself or learn from herself. Since she IS someone capable of great things and admirable despite the black to her character, but she's gone down a bad direction.
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2014 05:13 pm by Goodfella » Logged
AtoMaki
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 07, 2014 05:23 pm »

Bryke has outright said that Kuvira is meant to be a foil to Korra and a reflection of Korra's past self in interviews. A Korra that COULD have been, basically.

Can you give me links to these interviews? I can faintly remember them, but not the "Kuvira is Korra's past self" part. Didn't they just skim the topic with a "Kuvira thinks big and has the mojo, just like Korra back then"?

Basically, the biggest difference is Korra's already been swatted and forced to reflect. Kuvira's gotten what she wants and sees nothing wrong with her actions, hence the entitlement of "I always get what I want" and "people are resources for me to use how I see they fit best". IF Korra say, hadn't gotten stopped in Book 2 from running off with URN soldiers or hadn't had as many setbacks, it'd be easy to see her "I'm the Avatar and you have to deal with it!" attitude going in scary directions like Kuvira's going.

The big difference is that Kuvira is pretty darn good at what she is doing. Unlike Korra, who always failed to force her rules on the game. Kuvira is dictating the rules, and she is A-OK even when she has difficulties. Again, a sharp contrast with Korra who tends to go haywire even against the slightest opposition.

Hence part of why I still sort of want to see Kuvira redeem herself or learn from herself. Since she IS someone capable of great things and admirable despite the black to her character, but she's gone down a bad direction.

I think Kuvira has no reason to learn, and even less to "redeem" herself. She has already proved that she is a smooth operator. If she changed into a good guy, then Korra could hand over her Avatar title, because Kuvira is clearly a much better candidate for this job.
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Goodfella
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« Reply #34 on: Nov 07, 2014 05:40 pm »

(Replies in bold for ease)

Bryke has outright said that Kuvira is meant to be a foil to Korra and a reflection of Korra's past self in interviews. A Korra that COULD have been, basically.

Can you give me links to these interviews? I can faintly remember them, but not the "Kuvira is Korra's past self" part. Didn't they just skim the topic with a "Kuvira thinks big and has the mojo, just like Korra back then"?

From QA recently (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1282421#532): "Korra has to deal with overcoming a version of her past self". Hence why Kuvira was created specifically to be similar in even build and height to Korra.

Basically, the biggest difference is Korra's already been swatted and forced to reflect. Kuvira's gotten what she wants and sees nothing wrong with her actions, hence the entitlement of "I always get what I want" and "people are resources for me to use how I see they fit best". IF Korra say, hadn't gotten stopped in Book 2 from running off with URN soldiers or hadn't had as many setbacks, it'd be easy to see her "I'm the Avatar and you have to deal with it!" attitude going in scary directions like Kuvira's going.

The big difference is that Kuvira is pretty darn good at what she is doing. Unlike Korra, who always failed to force her rules on the game. Kuvira is dictating the rules, and she is A-OK even when she has difficulties. Again, a sharp contrast with Korra who tends to go haywire even against the slightest opposition.

On paper, Korra was doing pretty good in terms of doing what she wanted, which was why she had such a big ego in book 1 and the start of book 2. In book 1, she breezed through training (except in air bending), she ended up being right in "bringing the fight" to Amon at the end and saved a city, and by not listening to Tenzin or her dad she brought back the lights in the night sky. It was no wonder she thought she was justified in doing what she wanted up until about Beginnings.

Also, Kuvira still goes haywire, but in more subtle ways. I mean, just refer to her reaction when Bolin and Varrick said they didn't want to do what she wanted in 405. She pretty much snapped straight to threats, violence, and intimidation on a drop of a hat. That's NOT the sign of someone in perfect control.

Hence part of why I still sort of want to see Kuvira redeem herself or learn from herself. Since she IS someone capable of great things and admirable despite the black to her character, but she's gone down a bad direction.

I think Kuvira has no reason to learn, and even less to "redeem" herself. She has already proved that she is a smooth operator. If she changed into a good guy, then Korra could hand over her Avatar title, because Kuvira is clearly a much better candidate for this job.


Azula was also a "smooth operator" but that doesn't mean she was right, either. Likewise, Zaheer was a "smooth operator" until the end. Kuvira has shown she has no problem forcing her will on others or even putting people into slave labour because their "her" resources to use as she likes for what she sees is the greater good of "her" empire. From her perspective, I have no doubt she thinks that's all justified but she also probably really would have thrown Varrick off the train if he didn't cave and write it off as an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice for the greater good. That's a preeetty big red flag right there.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #35 on: Nov 07, 2014 06:00 pm »

From QA recently (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1282421#532): "Korra has to deal with overcoming a version of her past self". Hence why Kuvira was created specifically to be similar in even build and height to Korra.

This is actually quite far from being a foil IMHO Tongue.

On paper, Korra was doing pretty good in terms of doing what she wanted, which was why she had such a big ego in book 1 and the start of book 2. In book 1, she breezed through training (except in air bending), she ended up being right in "bringing the fight" to Amon at the end and saved a city, and by not listening to Tenzin or her dad she brought back the lights in the night sky. It was no wonder she thought she was justified in doing what she wanted up until about Beginnings.

Uh... But Kuvira isn't doing good only on paper. She is doing good for real. On the other hand, the last time Korra could pull a straight win without a last-second-save was... I dunno... the pro-bending arc maybe?

Also, Kuvira still goes haywire, but in more subtle ways. I mean, just refer to her reaction when Bolin and Varrick said they didn't want to do what she wanted in 405. She pretty much snapped straight to threats, violence, and intimidation on a drop of a hat. That's NOT the sign of someone in perfect control.

She wasn't going haywire, she was just taking control, villain-style. It is just how she rolls: with coercion, threatening, and lots of sweet guts&wits action. It is like Korra without the angst and depression, turned up to eleven, and enough confidence to grind any opposition into dust.

Azula was also a "smooth operator" but that doesn't mean she was right, either. Likewise, Zaheer was a "smooth operator" until the end. Kuvira has shown she has no problem forcing her will on others or even putting people into slave labour because their "her" resources to use as she likes for what she sees is the greater good of "her" empire. From her perspective, I have no doubt she thinks that's all justified but she also probably really would have thrown Varrick off the train if he didn't cave and write it off as an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice for the greater good. That's a preeetty big red flag right there.

This is why I said that Kuvira dictates the rules instead of following them like Korra does. She isn't a glorified henchwoman with mommy problems like Azula, or a super-spiritual anarchist commando like Zaheer. You don't like her game? Fine, you can always meet the rails under the train or a friendly reeducation camp. Don't pass Go, don't collect 200$.

This is pretty much what Korra is supposed to do as the Avatar too.
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Ikkin
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 07, 2014 09:23 pm »

Kuvira has a lot of war crimes on her, and that duel in the latest episode implied she was going to kill Korra. Life imprisonment at best. Death by some fashion at worse.

Kuvira's done some horrible things, but trying to kill the person who had just tried to execute her (after showing basically no inclination towards doing so up to that point) is probably not even in the top five of what we've seen on-screen.  >_>;
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« Reply #37 on: Nov 07, 2014 09:34 pm »

Doesn't matter if it's seen on screen or not, trying to kill the Avatar is a pretty big crime in itself. Plus, it doesn't help that Korra stopped herself (mental block or not).
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SpiritWatcher
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 07, 2014 09:40 pm »

I don't know if anyone else thinks this, but I want to see Kuvira die a really bad way. I don't want to see her death the most similar to Amon. A horrible tragic moment, in which she ends herself when she realizes she has accomplished nothing and never will. I want to see her broken down but not insane, and everything she stood for gone.

Its simply not reasonable to ask for any better end to a dictator and killer.
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« Reply #39 on: Nov 07, 2014 09:41 pm »

Kuvira's punishment needs to be a life of watching Prince Wu's dance moves.
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« Reply #40 on: Nov 07, 2014 09:47 pm »

Watching the AtlA movie for a lifetime.
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« Reply #41 on: Nov 07, 2014 09:52 pm »

^Both of these would suffice. By that I mean both combined
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« Reply #42 on: Nov 07, 2014 10:22 pm »

I hope she steps barefoot on a lego.

Or Meelo fartbends in her face.
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« Reply #43 on: Nov 07, 2014 10:47 pm »

I can imagine the finale in my head...

Kuvira and her army plants the atomic plant bomb in the heart of Republic City. All hell breaks loose as the armed forces of the Water Tribe, URN, Fire Nation, and a few Air Nation peacekeepers battle it out with the mecha tanks of the Earth Empire. We see our primary and secondary heroes bending like there's no tomorrow to ward off the EE forces. Our own nonbending heroes like Asami and Zhu Li navigate the tanks and planes of Future Industries to help out civilians.

Kuvira fights of Korra in the middle of the city. Kuvira uses metallic shurikens and blackjacks to weaken Korra. Korra tries hitting her. The bomb slowly ticks...

Kuvira: GIVE UP NOW OR REPUBLIC CITY WILL TURN INTO ASHES, AVATAR!
Korra: It doesn't have to end this way! Shut that thing off!

Kuvira tries to escape. She sees one of her EE blimps nearby and runs towards it to board. Korra still bends and tries to stop her, but Kuvira is too fast and tactile. Explosions surround the city from the ensuing battle. Everybody fighting in RC knows how their fate will end. The bomb ticks... Suddenly Kuvira is hit by a nearby explosion and is hit by a collapsing wall, knocking her out.
Korra approaches her. "Kuvira!", she yells. Kuvira grunts "There is no way for you to stop this bomb".

Korra finds the large bomb placed flat in the road. She enters the Avatar state and carries it and flies away. Kuvira suddenly gets up and yields a metallic whip to latch on to the bomb and flies away with Korra. Kuvira tries to hit Korra as she is flying. Korra knows she cannot be bothered as she has to drop the bomb somewhere far away. As the bomb ticks, Korra approaches the middle of the sea and encloses the bomb in an iceberg. Kuvira tries to fight off but falls into the water. She struggles.

Korra (non-AS): Kuvira! Let me help you! Grab my hand!
Kuvira: NEVER!
Korra: Kuvira, please! There is a way for us to change things. Save yourself! *reaches out a hand*
Kuvira: If the Empire goes down today, I will go down with it!

Korra realizes there isn't much time. She enters the AS and flies swiftly to RC. Just before she reaches the bay, people of RC watch from afar as a purple blast becomes visible at a distance.

OKAY, I KNOW I WATCH THE DARK KNIGHT RISES TOO MUCH. DON'T JUDGE ME. Tongue
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« Reply #44 on: Nov 07, 2014 10:48 pm »

Korra is going to energy bend life out of her.

Actually I wouldn't mind it if she removed her bending as punishment. Though Kuvira would likely go ax crazy and attempt suicide first.
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« Reply #45 on: Nov 08, 2014 01:48 am »

Kuvira represents who Korra used to be but has now disavowed.  I feel like the best resolution would be one that would allow Korra to bring Kuvira back into balance just as she balances the two parts of herself.
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« Reply #46 on: Nov 08, 2014 03:07 am »

Kuvira represents who Korra used to be but has now disavowed.  I feel like the best resolution would be one that would allow Korra to bring Kuvira back into balance just as she balances the two parts of herself.
I tend to agree with this. Part of me hopes that Korra will win without resorting to killing Kuvira, maybe even 'saving' her in the end. It would be a nice thematic bookend to ATLA.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #47 on: Nov 08, 2014 06:22 am »

Kuvira represents who Korra used to be but has now disavowed.

Heh, this would be pretty funny considering the difference of effectiveness between the two Smiley.
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« Reply #48 on: Nov 08, 2014 06:29 am »

Kuvira represents who Korra used to be but has now disavowed.

Heh, this would be pretty funny considering the difference of effectiveness between the two Smiley.

Korra should have stuck to her guns?  Wink
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« Reply #49 on: Nov 08, 2014 06:42 am »

If this book's theme is forgiveness, i think i wouldn't be surprised if Kuvira's still alive and forgiven by Korra Smiley.
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