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Author Topic: Kuvira's Fate  (Read 12287 times)
Ikkin
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« Reply #150 on: Sep 14, 2015 06:22 am »

*(Sidenote: I wish they'd given more explanation of her locking up fire/waterbenders though- was it out of prejudice? Paranoia that they'd fight back? A desire to return the Earth Kingdom to its 'original' state? Personally I prefer to think that somebody else was responsible for that, or there were some specific circumstances leading to it.)

Cross-referencing from the shipping thread!  Discussion on how Kuvira's Concentration Camps did or didn't make sense considering everything else we knew about her.  Begin!

For as serious as Concentration Camps are, they were really downplayed in the season.  It seemed to me as a way to give Kuvira her villain cred.  Like, if she had camps where she was locking people up for real or imagined crimes, why did they need the Colossus?  Why did she need to invade RC?  Weren't the camps enough?

I feel like, because of everything that needed to happen elsewhere in the story, the conditions under which people were put in the camps were limited to the point of incoherence.  The writers' apparent reluctance to deal with them outside of the original reveal is probably a result of that -- it's hard to write something when there are limited conditions under which it can make even the vaguest of sense.

I mean, look -- here are a list of all of the foreigners Kuvira doesn't question being around (and can't question being around, if the story is to work as intended):

1) Bolin, lavabending earthbender from Republic City with Fire Nation heritage
2) Varrick, non-bending Southern Water Tribesman
3) Opal and Kai, airbending Air Nationals of Earth Kingdom origin
4) Jinora, airbending Air Nationals of Air Nomad origin

...which means that it would be inconsistent for her to be opposed to the presence of people of any ancestry who are a) non-benders, b) earthbenders, or c) airbenders.

In other words, firebenders and waterbenders are the only group which the story doesn't require Kuvira allying herself with or leaving alone, so they end up as the target, as little sense as it makes as a policy.

Seriously, though, locking up only fire- and waterbenders is probably the most impractical thing Kuvira could have done.  It'd obviously radicalize their non-targeted relatives against her, so limiting the targeted group seems both pointless and counterproductive.

On the other hand, it's perfectly consistent with the idea of a rogue general finding an excuse to lock up all the foreigners, because radicalizing non-targets would be really useful for someone who wasn't able to target everyone they wanted to target (i.e. not Kuvira).  If Kuvira said, "no, that's ridiculous" to a "lock up all foreigners" plan but was okay with "require the fire- and waterbenders to use their powers for the good of the Earth Empire" plan, a xenophobic general could easily take advantage of that to lock up all of the fire- and waterbenders (and then go after their relatives for being potential traitors).  A general who wasn't raised in Zaofu could even have a backstory reason for feeling that way (unlike Kuvira, who has absolutely no reason to hate fire- or waterbenders given that she worked with at least one as a Zaofu guard).
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #151 on: Sep 14, 2015 02:24 pm »

Pretty much.  A lot could have been solved by letting characters fade out of the spotlight when it was their time.  Tongue

It's that cursed "New Friends" poster. If it didn't exist then we wouldn't have needed to keep everyone on board.

Kuvira's fate is probably to make a cameo in the comics like how Zaheer did in Book 4. Time to make room for the next Y7 homicidal maniac to have a good point and get the Toph Seal of Approval and for Korra to make no less than 3 mistakes and 4 apologies.
They probably should have done what they did with Roku. He had friends from the other nations, but they weren't involved in everything he did from the looks of it.
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shorewall
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« Reply #152 on: Sep 14, 2015 04:42 pm »

@Ikkin: yeah that list of all the foreigners she was not only ok with, but many that she had IN HER INNER CIRCLE, stretches suspension of disbelief.  If the camps were prison camps, and the criteria for inclusion were fast and loose, I could see it.  But to be that specific is 1) hard to accept based on what we were given, and 2) obviously trying to hearken to real world events, and let the audience fill in the blanks.

Pretty much.  A lot could have been solved by letting characters fade out of the spotlight when it was their time.  Tongue

It's that cursed "New Friends" poster. If it didn't exist then we wouldn't have needed to keep everyone on board.

Kuvira's fate is probably to make a cameo in the comics like how Zaheer did in Book 4. Time to make room for the next Y7 homicidal maniac to have a good point and get the Toph Seal of Approval and for Korra to make no less than 3 mistakes and 4 apologies.
They probably should have done what they did with Roku. He had friends from the other nations, but they weren't involved in everything he did from the looks of it.

100%.  Aang needed a support group/family unit, for obvious reasons.  Korra did not.  Most Avatars would not.  They could use allies, but not a "Team Avatar".  Was there a Team Roku, or a Team Kiyoshi?  No, they were Avatars.  So was Korra.  If anything, her friends held her back.  

Think about it.  With a Korra who had such a robust support system, why would her team consist of people she met traipsing around Republic City?  Aang needed anyone who would help him, in a world where the Villains had all the power.  Korra lived in a world where she had governments on her side.  Her team should have been Kuvira, Tenzin, Lin, Iroh, etc.
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Lightningbend
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« Reply #153 on: Sep 24, 2015 10:34 pm »

@Ikkin: yeah that list of all the foreigners she was not only ok with, but many that she had IN HER INNER CIRCLE, stretches suspension of disbelief.  If the camps were prison camps, and the criteria for inclusion were fast and loose, I could see it.  But to be that specific is 1) hard to accept based on what we were given, and 2) obviously trying to hearken to real world events, and let the audience fill in the blanks.

Pretty much.  A lot could have been solved by letting characters fade out of the spotlight when it was their time.  Tongue

It's that cursed "New Friends" poster. If it didn't exist then we wouldn't have needed to keep everyone on board.

Kuvira's fate is probably to make a cameo in the comics like how Zaheer did in Book 4. Time to make room for the next Y7 homicidal maniac to have a good point and get the Toph Seal of Approval and for Korra to make no less than 3 mistakes and 4 apologies.
They probably should have done what they did with Roku. He had friends from the other nations, but they weren't involved in everything he did from the looks of it.

100%.  Aang needed a support group/family unit, for obvious reasons.  Korra did not.  Most Avatars would not.  They could use allies, but not a "Team Avatar".  Was there a Team Roku, or a Team Kiyoshi?  No, they were Avatars.  So was Korra.  If anything, her friends held her back. 

Think about it.  With a Korra who had such a robust support system, why would her team consist of people she met traipsing around Republic City?  Aang needed anyone who would help him, in a world where the Villains had all the power.  Korra lived in a world where she had governments on her side.  Her team should have been Kuvira, Tenzin, Lin, Iroh, etc.

If Korra truly had her way then she also would've had the massive support of Raiko, who probably would have encouraged her to just go in and wipe Kuvira out, much like Su Yin had suggested.
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Atren
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« Reply #154 on: Sep 25, 2015 01:43 am »

I thought about it and decided to go for 10 years in her own reeducation camp. So if it was not that bad place she would been fine there, but if it was really bad place then she would have got to taste her own medicine. Problem with lesser punishment is that someone has to take the blame and that someone is Kuvira in this case. Unlike Azula or even Zuko (if he needed that in first place) she does not have Ozai to fall back on and even Ozai has Azulon and ultimately Sozin to fallback on. After that sentence she would be banned for lifetime from political/governing duties, but otherwise she is free to do whatever she wants.

Much more interesting is however what to do with Baatar jr. His blame is smaller, but unlike Kuvira he is significantly bigger threat now. His knowledge of the spirit weapon is something that needs to be guarded to avoid him or someone using him with very bad results. In the end I settled on lifetime community service as science advisor/expert for Airbender watch (did they actually have a name?) organization. It would also give technological independence for that organization from any outside corporations including Asami and Varrick. Even during that he would be monitored from afar to make sure his safety and safety of the knowledge he possesses. If spirit weapon technology becomes common knowledge then after 10 years might get pardoned. Also all scientific research he does would require someone present so he can't do solo work.
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Lightningbend
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« Reply #155 on: Oct 23, 2015 11:51 am »

I thought about it and decided to go for 10 years in her own reeducation camp. So if it was not that bad place she would been fine there, but if it was really bad place then she would have got to taste her own medicine. Problem with lesser punishment is that someone has to take the blame and that someone is Kuvira in this case. Unlike Azula or even Zuko (if he needed that in first place) she does not have Ozai to fall back on and even Ozai has Azulon and ultimately Sozin to fallback on. After that sentence she would be banned for lifetime from political/governing duties, but otherwise she is free to do whatever she wants.

Much more interesting is however what to do with Baatar jr. His blame is smaller, but unlike Kuvira he is significantly bigger threat now. His knowledge of the spirit weapon is something that needs to be guarded to avoid him or someone using him with very bad results. In the end I settled on lifetime community service as science advisor/expert for Airbender watch (did they actually have a name?) organization. It would also give technological independence for that organization from any outside corporations including Asami and Varrick. Even during that he would be monitored from afar to make sure his safety and safety of the knowledge he possesses. If spirit weapon technology becomes common knowledge then after 10 years might get pardoned. Also all scientific research he does would require someone present so he can't do solo work.

Problems:

1) You can't put Kuvira in a reeducation camp for 10 years because those camps would have been closed after her conquest ended. Plus you can't have a reeducation camp with one person in it. In order to punish her by keeping her in a camp, you'd effectively have to keep at least one camp open with the prisoners that she put in it. Really the best option would be life imprisonment or execution.

2) Baatar Jr. was also just as guilty for everything Kuviria did as he was the #2 in command. Lifetime community service hardly seems like a fitting punishment for a tyrannical conquest of a continent and, let's be real, the death and murder of who knows how many people. Also, after he was betrayed by Kuviria (who tired to freaking kill him less i remind you!), and admitted to be wrong the whole time and a screw up to Su, I highly doubt he'll use his knowledge of the super weapon to create another super weapon. He, too, will most likely face imprisonment, but who knows for how long it'll be. I somehow doubt that Su will let him be locked away for life.
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #156 on: Jul 19, 2016 09:51 am »

I wonder how metalbenders are imprisoned in a place like Republic City.
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"Some friendships can transcend through lifetimes."

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character."
Ikkin
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« Reply #157 on: Aug 07, 2016 08:25 pm »

I wonder how metalbenders are imprisoned in a place like Republic City.

After Kuvira's attack?  Probably in the remains of her platinum mechs.  >_>
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Loopy
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« Reply #158 on: Aug 08, 2016 06:42 pm »

Too simple. The current world leaders are more the "keep them alive suspend in a wooden cage over a lake as deep as Loch Ness under the watch of guards armed with glass weapons and only provide them with food stripped of all minerals" types.
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Yougo
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« Reply #159 on: Aug 09, 2016 06:33 am »

sure, because how else are we going to get to this scene?

it's just bound to happen.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #160 on: Aug 14, 2016 08:40 pm »

sure, because how else are we going to get to this scene?

it's just bound to happen.

xD it's what DID happen.  All of the Red Lotus's escapes were equivalent of a Magneto break out... or that leopard dude from Kung Fu Panda.
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