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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 42 (43.3%)
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Author Topic: [405] Enemy at the Gates  (Read 57725 times)
TheGrandSage23
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« Reply #50 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:25 am »

Great episode but obviously some people will never be satisfied.. I liked Korra's approach to Kuvira but it's not going to work... Kuvira is becoming what she hates and still think she's a hero.. That hero complex keeps growing to the point where she's not listening to reason... Don't know why some people complaining about her not being 100% gray.. She was supposed to be black and gray... She's not an anti hero... But a villain with a hero syndrome totally convinced she's the one saving people but eh what do I know

Varrick can be cutthroat in business and has done bad things to Asami and Mako business wise but he's also helped Team Avatar...He's not evil nor has he ever been out to cause actual harm to other people
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Fire Rose
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« Reply #51 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:30 am »

^Kuvira pretty much has a messiah complex. She thinks she's saving the world when the truth is she's been making it worse for her country.

Yeah, you just know some are going to complain about Kuvira's character even more now. It happens every time with the villains. I remember how we would go on about how "Zaheer's so nice to the air kids and that the OWL deserved to be killed because "poor Zaheer, the world screwed him over" ". Look how that turned around after killing the Earth Queen. The guy didn't care about anything except for plea. He was willing to kill a reborn nation just so have can get what he wanted.
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fraroc
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« Reply #52 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:40 am »

With all of that in mind, there really is no doubt that Zaheer and Kuvira and to an extent Amon are much deeper villains than Unalaq. Unalaq knew what he was doing was incredibly selfish, but he didn't give a sh*t, he was just like Ozai. Zaheer and Kuvira are more like Book 1 Zuko. Villians with a little bit of grey area. Zuko thought that capturing the Avatar was the right thing to do in order to please his father and restore his honor. Zaheer thought that anarchy was the only way for the world to finally realize true peace and Kuvira believes that her show of force is the only way to fix the Earth Kingdom for the better.
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TheGrandSage23
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« Reply #53 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:41 am »

^Kuvira pretty much has a messiah complex. She thinks she's saving the world when the truth is she's been making it worse for her country.

Yeah, you just know some are going to complain about Kuvira's character even more now. It happens every time with the villains. I remember how we would go on about how "Zaheer's so nice to the air kids and that the OWL deserved to be killed because "poor Zaheer, the world screwed him over" ". Look how that turned around after killing the Earth Queen. The guy didn't care about anything except for plea. He was willing to kill a reborn nation just so have can get what he wanted.

It would be different if she never did crap with that power she had... But that wasn't the case.. She got pissed that the perfect person didn't take the job and did it herself(with loads of help) for 3 years.. When you do something good it makes you feel good and you try to do it more.. Helping a nation(aka your homeland) come together put Kuvira on a high she never planned on getting off of.. She looked like was in her early 20's? Lol Raiko should've known.. That's like giving a 16 year old the keys to your Rolls Royce.. However she did help so that feeds into that complex so when she was asked to set down its like "uhh what?!! Why?"

It's like watching Book 1 and Book 2 Korra but pushed farther

And she's naive as hell.. Zhu Ali was ass kissing her and Kuvira felt all giddy

I liked that actually
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Omninaut
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« Reply #54 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:42 am »

Anyone feel Bolin's defection was a bit
..expedient? He's been with Kuvira longer than he has Korra at this point, and yet he drops all that over a bit of Batmanning? A slow burn if they were working the defection angle would have been much more narratively impactful .As of now it seems like they're pushing Bolin's arc up for the sake of the (frankly obtuse) reeducation camp nonsense.

Although I do like how bloodthirsty Su Yin was in this, I noted that it was odd that a big deal wasn't made (from her perspective) about BLOWING A PERSON'S HEAD UP and it is nice to see that carried over. Su Yin was akin to the fans in this episode, wanting a big Bah Gawd Kuvirabowl while Korra (just like her counterpart Kuvira) tried peace. And then Su snuck in the dead of night with a hit squad to assassinate a woman she raised since she was 8.

I find it funny this shoes "heroes" have killed/tried to kill more people than its "villains."

Also

>Kuvira NTRs Varrick. Ha!
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 08:45 am by Omninaut » Logged


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Fire Rose
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« Reply #55 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:46 am »

^Kuvira pretty much has a messiah complex. She thinks she's saving the world when the truth is she's been making it worse for her country.

Yeah, you just know some are going to complain about Kuvira's character even more now. It happens every time with the villains. I remember how we would go on about how "Zaheer's so nice to the air kids and that the OWL deserved to be killed because "poor Zaheer, the world screwed him over" ". Look how that turned around after killing the Earth Queen. The guy didn't care about anything except for plea. He was willing to kill a reborn nation just so have can get what he wanted.

It would be different if she never did crap with that power she had... But that wasn't the case.. She got pissed that the perfect person didn't take the job and did it herself(with loads of help) for 3 years.. When you do something good it makes you feel good and you try to do it more.. Helping a nation(aka your homeland) come together put Kuvira on a high she never planned on getting off of.. She looked like was in her early 20's? Lol Raiko should've known.. That's like giving a 16 year old the keys to your Rolls Royce.. However she did help so that feeds into that complex so when she was asked to set down its like "uhh what?!! Why?"

It's like watching Book 1 and Book 2 Korra but pushed farther

And she's naive as hell.. Zhu Ali was ass kissing her and Kuvira felt all giddy

I liked that actually

I get that. I'm just saying that Kuvira has now been driven to a terrible version of herself because she has power. Absolute power corrupts Absolutely.
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TheGrandSage23
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« Reply #56 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:49 am »

I like edgy Suyin but that truce between Kuvira and Korra won't last for another few hours at best... But what did concern me was that she took her children instead of guards

However I do agree with some that we should see some more backstory with Su/Kuvira
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 09:11 am by TheGrandSage23 » Logged
Weege the Airbender
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« Reply #57 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:55 am »

Ok, wow! There are so many things to say about this episode.

-I have totally lost just about all sympathy for Kuvira now. The slave labor and reeducation camps turned me off. Oh yeah, and she levitated Varrick and threatened to throw him off the train!
-Huan is alive! He didn't say anything, but we know he is still kicking.
-Korra tried the diplomatic solution first. I wasn't surprised, but it seems to have gone nowhere.
-Varrick has a conscience? I actually thought he would willingly stick with Kuvira to the end.
-Zhu Li has gotten more lines and screentime in this episode than anytime before I think. I bought that she is going to be genuinely loyal to Kuvira, but it is probably just a trick.
-Hiroshi did not age well. Prison has definitely taken a toll on him. The Asami-Hiroshi subplot seemed to come out of nowhere but I welcome it! I hope we see it again in at least one more episode so it does not feel cheap.
-I thought Bolin's defection would be more meaningful, but I am glad he is coming to his senses.
-Su took the twins to take down Kuvira. Not a good idea.
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"I told you I would destroy you."
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Omninaut
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« Reply #58 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:57 am »

There is no effing way a child soldier abetted assassination attempt during an Avatar mediated truce isn't a casus belli. Jesus Christ Su, now I really want to se you taken down .
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #59 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:04 am »

I'm pretty sure Su could have helped and delegated a council of a few trusted people who could have been in charge in the whole "provide EK stability mission". One in charge of transport, the other housing, another food, health, etc. The responsibilities didn't have to fall on one single person.

Wow Zhu Li is surprisingly agile and can kick butt! She has very good reason to leave Varrick behind, he has been quite a jerk to her since Book 2. I'm on the fence if she has truly betrayed him or is planning to go "undercover" to weed out some stuff from Kuvira.

The mechatanks reminded me of Jaegers from Pacific Rim. They were clunky of course since they're robotic and will have sharp-ish angles so you'll never make a mechatank move so fluidly like a human even though Bryan initially designed the mechatanks to be human sized but all the designers drew them bigger and taller.

If Hiroshi returns back to villainy, I won't be angry at Asami for giving him the cold shoulder for the rest of his life. Nice touch from the design team for giving him fully grey/white hair now.

Now Kuvira and her army reminds me of North Korea. Dissenters into prison camps? Sounds very NK to me. At least she has something to show for it unlike KJU but man, I hope Korra will somehow hopefully knock some balance into Kuvira.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
mmoon24
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« Reply #60 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:07 am »


Wow Zhu Li is surprisingly agile and can kick butt! She has very good reason to leave Varrick behind, he has been quite a jerk to her since Book 2. I'm on the fence if she has truly betrayed him or is planning to go "undercover" to weed out some stuff from Kuvira.


Lol, it was so obvious that Zhu Li was kissing up to Kuvira. Remember, Varrick is going to be under "supervision" while conducting his experiments. By kissing up to Kuvira, Zhu Li will be around Varrick. That was her plan all along.

The fact that Zhu Li always comes back to Varrick despite how he treats her reminds me of Joker and Harley, only on a lesser level.
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Arban
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« Reply #61 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:09 am »

...
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 05:44 pm by Arban » Logged
BlackPanther1012
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« Reply #62 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:10 am »

This episode was soooooo good.

The Asami subplot came out of nowhere but boy, did it quenched my thirsty soul. More please!!!

I'm not getting any Nazi Germany nor North Korea vibes from Kuvira and the Earth Empire. The vibes I am getting are: pre-Stalin Soviet Russia...and Mussolini Italy.

^
Is that really her in that picture? Was that officially confirmed?

Kuvira has gone too far. However as Toph noted in the previous episode, it wasn't the ideologies of Korra's villains that were bad it was the methods they used to enforce them. She is definitely the villain we knew she would become, but I don't think wanting to reunite a nation and making it strong are the worst things possible. It's just how she did it that has gone overboard. Remove the slave labor and re-education camps, then it becomes reasonable.

But it seems, that force is the only answer Kuvira knows when it comes to resistance. A hard boiled military. But as you could even read in The Art of War by Sun Tzu, being flexible like bamboo is sometimes better, cause being unyielding like a tree of hard wood ends up in a broken tree, while the bamboo usually can withstand even strongest wind by being flexible...

The similarities between Kuvira and young Korra (AKA Little Miss burn it with fire) are almost overwhelming.

All Kuvira needs is a swift, hard kick to get her back on track. Compared to the other three villains, Kuvira and Bataar Jr. are so young. They've only just jumped off the deep end; they're not even halfway along. It's not too late for them.

Can we talk about Korra? She's almost unrecognizable.

I still think Su is Red Lotus; there's no way she can be that reckless and have all of it boil down to "Kuvira is a homewrecker" feels.
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TheGreenLotus
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« Reply #63 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:13 am »


BUT GODDAMN IT!!!! I  was hoping Bolin would go bad and do morally reprehensible things for Kuvira. My only hope now is that he is indoctrinated at the re education facility, otherwise the whole "Bolin joining Kuvira" idea was just a waste.

Don't think so. Someone has to liberate the education facility and we see in the trailer that mostly the Team Avatar shown together was only Asami, Mako and Korra. It could be that Bolin (and maybe Varrick?) would liberate those camps just like Katara did in ATLA
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #64 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:13 am »

Lol, it was so obvious that Zhu Li was kissing up to Kuvira. Remember, Varrick is going to be under "supervision" while conducting his experiments. By kissing up to Kuvira, Zhu Li will be around Varrick. That was her plan all along.

The fact that Zhu Li always comes back to Varrick despite how he treats her reminds me of Joker and Harley, only on a lesser level.
Given Zhu Li's apparent show of loathing towards Varrick, do you think Kuvira will still let her hang around her old boss? Zhu Li has amassed quite a lot of skill be it administrative or combat wise the past few years so I won't be surprised if Kuvira assigns her to do something else other than assisting Varrick.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
BlackPanther1012
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« Reply #65 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:16 am »

There is no effing way a child soldier abetted assassination attempt during an Avatar mediated truce isn't a casus belli. Jesus Christ Su, now I really want to se you taken down .

Agreed. Su is out of line. I mean, it's one thing to organize and lead a hit team on a distinguished general but it's another thing to include your children on it.

There's a lot more to Su than she has been telling us Korra. Who knows? Maybe Lin had a point or two after all.

I should've known this would've happen when Su backstabbed Lin by sending Team Avatar into harm's way.


BUT GODDAMN IT!!!! I  was hoping Bolin would go bad and do morally reprehensible things for Kuvira. My only hope now is that he is indoctrinated at the re education facility, otherwise the whole "Bolin joining Kuvira" idea was just a waste.

Don't think so. Someone has to liberate the education facility and we see in the trailer that mostly the Team Avatar shown together was only Asami, Mako and Korra. It could be that Bolin (and maybe Varrick?) would liberate those camps just like Katara did in ATLA

I also think that we need a lens into the re-education camps. Who better than Bolin?

Then again, I'm (strangely?) with Hand of Vaatu on this. It would've been interesting to see Bolin become a villain temporarily and fight Mako. But Team Avatar deserves to have one last hurrah and Bolin should be a part of that.

Lol, it was so obvious that Zhu Li was kissing up to Kuvira. Remember, Varrick is going to be under "supervision" while conducting his experiments. By kissing up to Kuvira, Zhu Li will be around Varrick. That was her plan all along.

The fact that Zhu Li always comes back to Varrick despite how he treats her reminds me of Joker and Harley, only on a lesser level.
Given Zhu Li's apparent show of loathing towards Varrick, do you think Kuvira will still let her hang around her old boss? Zhu Li has amassed quite a lot of skill be it administrative or combat wise the past few years so I won't be surprised if Kuvira assigns her to do something else other than assisting Varrick.

I doubt Zhu Li was faking it. She seemed to be really frustrated with Varrick in this episode...both sexually speaking and ordinarily.
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Boilinfangirl
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« Reply #66 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:19 am »

I don't get why they added in an Asami plot this episode, while much needed for her character and it was good still random and not a great timing for it.

For the main plot, whenever you find out some ones crazy like that spite loyalty I think it was a good call for Bolin to do. Granted he's known her longer than Korra at this point but dealing with those types of antics I'd call him crazy for staying. He's also know Su as long any ways and wants to help people not hurt them. I loved his fight scenes, man the way he can use his lava bending, what he can do. Kuriva is going to wish she didn't mess with a guy with that kind of power Tongue

He's going to do a lot of damage to the camp if he manages to get sent to the place, maybe he can free the people that got sent to the place? Or I still think hey'll escape though, hope he gets a lot of B plots.

Awesome episode over all. Wish this season had more episodes Sad
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TheGrandSage23
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« Reply #67 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:20 am »

That's basically what Kuvira is... A darker version of old Korra and also naive as all get out.. Two big mistakes she made this episode

1) "you could learn things from her" Because we all know Zhu Li actually wants to be with her lol

2) "you will stay and finish the experiment because we totally have control of spiritual energy" right because that huge hole in her train just appeared there

Varrick also said it was dangerous..

Don't. mess. with. the. spirits.
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fireywaters
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« Reply #68 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:20 am »

I still think  if Zhu Li betrayl is fake, no one is on it even Varrick. I don't think they had a pre conceived B plan incase we get captured we do this, I don't that is the case, it is more spur of the moment I have to think of something or else we are all screwed spur of the moment plan. If so she should let Varrick think she has betrayed for a while, teach him a lesson.

Speaking of which, what is Varrick even involved in this, he is a water tribe citizen, this is non of his business, and if Zhu Li  natrionality is not that of the Earth Kingdom she has no reason to believe in Kuvira movement.
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WarriorMind556
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« Reply #69 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:24 am »

This one episode just raised the intensity of this season by a lot. I'm happy with where this is going.

Also Zhu Li is defs faking it. After those loving looks throughout the whole episode, she's trying to protect Varrick because she loves him <3 I now ship those two so hard.
No Zhu Li loves Varrick, but Varrick doesn't. That is why she is angry and betrayed.
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CanyonCrawler
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« Reply #70 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:25 am »

There is no effing way a child soldier abetted assassination attempt during an Avatar mediated truce isn't a casus belli. Jesus Christ Su, now I really want to se you taken down .

Are you referring to Wing and Wei? It seems to me that they are at the least 17/18, if not older. (Are they older or younger than Opal?) If they are the age I think they are, then they are not exactly child soldiers. Are you talking about something else?

It is interesting that Su Yin and Tonraq have both been in similar situations.

Yeah, assassination attempts are definitely a casus belli. I guess we know how Su Yin, Wing, and Wei end up restrained.

The thing about this conflict is that I can't really see myself supporting either side (then again my second choice for a username would have been ComradeRedLotus, so...) and even with the prison camp thing, I still don't (but this is similar to real life I guess, neither side is good) but I'm interested in seeing the results. I also hated the cliffhanger! I wish they would release two episodes a week!

(seems I've typed this far too slowly and many replies have arrived, oh well)
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Colonel_Brian
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« Reply #71 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:25 am »

Nice episode. I am interested in where the Asami subplot is going. It felt so random and things that start of bad usually end up bad.

Anyway, I like the tension. Korra has really changed and I enjoyed her effort to act like a mediator between Kuvira and Suyin.

That mecha fight was so clunky. CGI is not Mir's strong point.

Lastly, Varrick and Zhi Li make everything better. I am on the side of those who think Zhu Li is faking allegience to Kuvira. Her breakdown was a bit too over-dramatic for a stoic like herself.
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Boilinfangirl
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« Reply #72 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:28 am »

Yah, forgot to say. The way Nick is doing things sucks! I know Korra is lacking episodes but it's ending any ways, mine as well at least give us a two parter today ><
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Colonel_Brian
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« Reply #73 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:29 am »

I know. Meelo echoed my own sentiments. I want to see people punching each out now.
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« Reply #74 on: Oct 31, 2014 09:33 am »

She seemed to be really frustrated with Varrick in this episode...both sexually speaking and ordinarily.
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Are you referring to Wing and Wei? It seems to me that they are at the least 17/18, if not older. (Are they older or younger than Opal?) If they are the age I think they are, then they are not exactly child soldiers. Are you talking about something else?
Su said the twins are her youngest children in 305 so they're younger than Opal. The character designs for them now have them a little bulkier and taller. They seemed 14 to me in Book 3.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
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