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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 42 (43.3%)
9 - 29 (29.9%)
8 - 15 (15.5%)
7 - 9 (9.3%)
6 - 1 (1%)
5 - 1 (1%)
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2 - 0 (0%)
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Author Topic: [405] Enemy at the Gates  (Read 34557 times)
luvavatar
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« Reply #25 on: Oct 31, 2014 05:38 am »

They are susceptible, but they do look like they can take a beating. If the person inside is also an earthbender, then that could be a problem. I don't think that airbenders would do too great against them, unless they are extremely skilled and can move air with the force of something like a strong tornado. The trailer showed a ton of wind being blasted at the mechas, but they were still moving through it.

I also made a mistake with firebenders. While the mecha won't be out of commission from a lightning strike, it will still go down for a short period. A firebender could keep hitting it with lightning until the suit overloads and is destroyed.
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 05:43 am by luvavatar » Logged
Rava
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« Reply #26 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:04 am »

I don't know if Zhu Li's betrayl is legit or not, I could go either way on that, either way I am sure she and Verrick will works things out in the end.

That's how I feel about it as well... She could try to double-cross Kuvira. Zhu Li sure is a very clever one.

But then, what she said is true as well: that Varrick never really appreciated her. But still, follow a worse leader to get rid of a bad one? That would be a stupid decision...
And like I already said, Zhu Li might be lots of things, but stupid is not among them.


Korra most likely doesn't know about the re-education camps or the slave labor. If Su didn't tell her that, I could see why she listened to Kuvira. She sees Kuvira as doing what she should've done as well as the woman who saved her father.

I really wonder why Su did not tell Korra about that. She knew Kuvira would be coming for her city. And by that, she should have collected all info that could be brought up against Kuvira, be it legal in court,or be it to get people to leave Kuvira, cause she is no longer the helping  knight in shining armour, but a slaver and tyrant. Just like many of us thought it would turn out.

All this "hard truths" speech is just an attempt in not telling the truth, that Kuvira is not any better than any tyrant before her. Putting people in re-education camps. Sounds almost like the camps Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia had for "re-educating" people who not did 100% what they were told to do...

And her "Those people are my loyal subjects, and they contribute to the empire however I see fit" sounds like she is okay with forced labour, or even forced labour camps...
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yours Rava

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JDG1980
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« Reply #27 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:06 am »

How exactly do they plan on keeping Bolin in a "re-education camp"? It took a specialized prison in the middle of the ocean to keep Ghazan locked up; even if Bolin isn't quite that powerful (and he's pretty close, as demonstrated by their last fight) he should be able to break out of a standard slave labor camp easily. The only way I can see this working is if the whole thing is made of metal, with no contact to ordinary earth.
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Rava
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« Reply #28 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:10 am »

How exactly do they plan on keeping Bolin in a "re-education camp"? It took a specialized prison in the middle of the ocean to keep Ghazan locked up; even if Bolin isn't quite that powerful (and he's pretty close, as demonstrated by their last fight) he should be able to break out of a standard slave labor camp easily. The only way I can see this working is if the whole thing is made of metal, with no contact to ordinary earth.

Could he bent the metal with his lava ability? So far, we only saw the lavebenders melding rock...

I just hope the news about Bo Lin reached Korra, the Air Kids, Tenzin and Mako in short time. Kuvira has a huge Army, therefore the Avatar needs all her allies as well...
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yours Rava

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luvavatar
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« Reply #29 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:12 am »

She has become every bit a tyrant that Su said she was. However I still don't agree with Su in not even trying to help fix her country. I can see why many in her own city turned against her, feeling that it was their duty to try to help the Earth Kingdom in any way they could. If only Su had taken over, there would be no re-education camps and people would most likely eagerly join. She could have used her husband's innovation and her fame for good, instead of staying in Zaofu and trying to keep her people in a gilded cage.
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Rava
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« Reply #30 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:26 am »

^
Indeed, she made a bad attempt retelling her reasons why she not tried to stabilise the EK... And by so, she is responsible that Kuvira could take to many able folks out of Zaofu who are now needed protecting the city...

[From the 405 speculation thread, I answer it here cause of 405 spoilers...:]
This was their first mistake. The second was to sit by while unsettling rumors of her "Great Uniter" project reached them and comfort themselves with the notion that she had given her word that she would hand over power ... So nothing bad was going to happen.

Perhaps we will find out later that there was some kind of attempt to oversee what she was doing. But as of right now it appears that she was given free rein to do as she pleased. She may have become a dictator but she is one that the other world leaders indirectly helped to create.

The similarities to the beginning and rise of the Nazi party is really unsettling. As long as the Weimar Republic was still existing, the other nations (mainly France & UK) have been very strict on enforcing the rules against Weimar, even occupying the Rhineland. But as soon as Hitler and his "merry men" took over, he started to break treaties by treaties and nothing happened...
I think it is done on purpose, cause the similarities are just too much. Like with Hitler, some politicians hoped appeasement would work with him, but it was a bad approach. And Kuvira creates re-education camp, uses forced labour and now, with Zaofu it looks like she is finally willing to take territories by force who not want to join her... already now she is a dictator, and quite heartless and manipulative as well...

And funny enough, in the beginning she told her boyfriend "we must do this right", and now she is the one wanting to begin a war because of some land that not wants to join her.

Kuvira is no longer a legitimate leader, she was meant to be temporary from the start. And Zaofu never pledged loyalty to the EE, and should not be forced to join...
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yours Rava

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fireywaters
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« Reply #31 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:32 am »

If Zhu Li is faking, I don't think Verrick is in on it. I think she was just thinking quick on her feet and avoiding being sent to the consentration camp. If she really did betray Verrick, she just wants Verrick to appreciate her and not take her for granted. Sometimes you hurt the people you love to get their attention.

I think Asami  and Hiroshi relationship, it could end up like Lucy and Jude Heartfilla.

I think like it not, Kuvira made great points about Su that I agree with, she is living in isolation and detaching herself from the world, like mother like daughter I guess. Zaofu is like Kyoshi Island before the origianl Team Avatar visted and changed them. I think Su is going have to realise she made a lot of mistakes here.
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 06:34 am by fireywaters » Logged

Peace between the Fire Nation and the other nations, before peace in our world
AvatarReiko
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« Reply #32 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:33 am »

The episode is now up on Nick.com http://t.co/mFNzZZ7OGH
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luvavatar
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« Reply #33 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:34 am »

Kuvira has gone too far. However as Toph noted in the previous episode, it wasn't the ideologies of Korra's villains that were bad it was the methods they used to enforce them. She is definitely the villain we knew she would become, but I don't think wanting to reunite a nation and making it strong are the worst things possible. It's just how she did it that has gone overboard. Remove the slave labor and re-education camps, then it becomes somewhat reasonable.
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Fire Rose
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« Reply #34 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:38 am »

Another cliffhanger. Bah! I was hoping that would get the Kuvira vs Korra fight. Oh well, at least Korra tried the peaceful way first.

Korra now seems to be in predicament. People have always tried to tell to take the peaceful way three years ago, only to tell her to take the violent way since Kuvira cannot be reasoned with. Korra may be better but she is a different person now.

Kuvira's backstory wasn't a big surprise because I think we saw the idea of the 'apprentice betrays the mentor' coming. BJ living in his father's/family shadow was also something I saw coming, but I still wished we knew more about the issue because BJ is just being a jackass for no reason. Kuvira on the other hand will no doubt be driven insane by the next episode since Korra, win or lose, will put a mark on Kuvira's pride.

The character development was really good in this episode. Asami finally got some development that I can be happy with, Varrick growing a conscious, Bolin coming to his senses, Zhu Li defecting (which is probably fake. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer, right?). Now all that's left if Mako getting development, which will likely be saved when Korra returns to RC or it will be a filler within the next episode like Asami's.

So overall a good episode.
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Landshark
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« Reply #35 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:43 am »

So, is anyone else wondering why Su "took in" Kuvira when she was 8? There's more background to Kuvira than we know right now, and there's a reason she's an orphan. Something tells me this picture is still important:



I think that earlier in life, Su was close friends with Zaheer. Zaheer may have bounced off some anarchy ideas with her, but I think Zaheer could tell that Su wouldn't go that far with her ideology. I also think that P'Li and Zaheer may have had a child (and if Zaheer is descended from Earth Kingdom lineage, it's completely plausible), and that before going to abduct a 4 year old Korra, Zaheer left his daughter Kuvira in Su's hands. Once Zaheer was caught trying to capture the Avatar, I think Su made it a huge priority to reeducate and mentor Kuvira in Su's own ideology, in fear Kuvira may take up her parents' cause when she became older.

The results went horribly right, and Kuvira was heavily loyal to Su and her ideology. Kuvira is also aware of who her parents are, and this is the reason Kuvira took up the cause of uniting the Earth Kingdom. She felt that her family's legacy at this point was one of destruction and chaos, and she needed to regain her and her family's honor by uniting the Earth Kingdom once more. She's definitely gone off the rails in being power hungry now, but she still thinks what she's doing is overall good for the Earth Kingdom.

I think Korra will learn of this story personally from Zaheer, who I think she still needs to face (not in a fight). And Zaheer would know basically everything, since Zaheer would have been able to go to the Spirit World and keep in touch with Aiwei, who would have given him constant updates on his daughter. I believe this is where Zaheer is currently being held (notice the White Lotus sentries)

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Rava
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« Reply #36 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:44 am »

^
Is that really her in that picture? Was that officially confirmed?

Kuvira has gone too far. However as Toph noted in the previous episode, it wasn't the ideologies of Korra's villains that were bad it was the methods they used to enforce them. She is definitely the villain we knew she would become, but I don't think wanting to reunite a nation and making it strong are the worst things possible. It's just how she did it that has gone overboard. Remove the slave labor and re-education camps, then it becomes somewhat reasonable.

But it seems, that force is the only answer Kuvira knows when it comes to resistance. A hard boiled military. But as you could even read in The Art of War by Sun Tzu, being flexible like bamboo is sometimes better, cause being unyielding like a tree of hard wood ends up in a broken tree, while the bamboo usually can withstand even strongest wind by being flexible...
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yours Rava

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you're the king of yuri on ASN
AvatarReiko
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« Reply #37 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:53 am »

I think Mako and Korra are visiting Zaheer in that picture posted above.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #38 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:54 am »

I wonder what possessed her to start becoming such a tyrant in the first place. It would've been more interesting if it turned out some of the allegations levied at her were things she was unaware of. Make it so that Baatar Jr. was the one behind the re-education camps and slave labor. Hey we've been doing the evil parent (well evil father, hopefully the next series gives us an evil mother) thing for years. It would be interesting to see some evil offspring, even though they came from a decent family. We got an inkling with Sozin. Under his father there was peace and prosperity, but we all know what happened with him.
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cycle112
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« Reply #39 on: Oct 31, 2014 06:59 am »

Did anyone think the animation for this episode was better
than previous ones? I don't know, the facial expressions and detail just
seemed more defined.
Also great episode, the tension is great and is building up to an
epic war.
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Fire Rose
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« Reply #40 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:08 am »

I wonder what possessed her to start becoming such a tyrant in the first place. It would've been more interesting if it turned out some of the allegations levied at her were things she was unaware of. Make it so that Baatar Jr. was the one behind the re-education camps and slave labor. Hey we've been doing the evil parent (well evil father, hopefully the next series gives us an evil mother) thing for years. It would be interesting to see some evil offspring, even though they came from a decent family. We got an inkling with Sozin. Under his father there was peace and prosperity, but we all know what happened with him.

Maybe Kuvira has a secret admiration for Korra. When Korra left to recover she was inspired to want to do good for the world while the Avatar was away. The problem with that is that like her villainous predecessors her ideals became twisted along the way.
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Goodfella
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« Reply #41 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:09 am »

I wonder what possessed her to start becoming such a tyrant in the first place. It would've been more interesting if it turned out some of the allegations levied at her were things she was unaware of. Make it so that Baatar Jr. was the one behind the re-education camps and slave labor. Hey we've been doing the evil parent (well evil father, hopefully the next series gives us an evil mother) thing for years. It would be interesting to see some evil offspring, even though they came from a decent family. We got an inkling with Sozin. Under his father there was peace and prosperity, but we all know what happened with him.

I thought about BJ being a potential culprit for runner of things behind Kuvira's back before this ep and I'm honestly kinda glad they didn't.

Slave labor and re-education camps? Undoubtedly terrible, but it would have taken away from Kuvira to handwave her convictions and actions by shifting the worst of it to someone else. It's part of what makes Kuvira compelling, even though you KNOW she's going about things the wrong way, especially since Korra remembers her as the woman who saved her father.
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Hand of Vaatu
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« Reply #42 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:15 am »

I wonder it Hiroshi still has any negative sentiment toward benders. Realising that he was horrible to his daughter doesn't have to mean that he has changed his viewpoint on bending.
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ismellbacons
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« Reply #43 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:23 am »

I hope this "Korra trying to solve things through peace" doesn't last long...Aside from that, good episode; wish they'd made it a 2 part episode, as well.

Agreed. Kuvira needs to get her butt handed to her with a good ol' watersmack to the mouth.

I miss punch-first-ask-questions-later-Korra.
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Sifu Metalbender
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« Reply #44 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:32 am »

Cliffhangers...
1. Are Su and the twins going to kill Kuvira and Bataar Jr.?
2. Is Zhu Li bluffing or do we have our elusive secondary antagonist?
3. Where is the father-daughter relationship between the Satos going to head?

Also... Darth Kuvira finds Varrick's lack of faith disturbing.
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Viper: You're in Triple Threat Triad territory, and we're about to put you in the hospital.
Korra: You're the only ones who are gonna need a hospital, and for your sake, I hope there's one nearby.
Viper: Who do you think you are?
Korra: Why don't you come and find out.
fireywaters
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« Reply #45 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:35 am »

^Thanks for reminding me, I think Su and Kuvira relationship, they remind me of Obi One Kanobi and Anaken Skywalker.
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Sifu Metalbender
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« Reply #46 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:52 am »

^Thanks for reminding me, I think Su and Kuvira relationship, they remind me of Obi One Kanobi and Anaken Skywalker.

Now that I think about it, yes, that could be the story arc between the two.

Honestly, my first thought when Kuvira used the metalbending copy of the force choke was "Who does she think she is, Darth Vader?"
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 07:55 am by Sifu Metalbender » Logged

Viper: You're in Triple Threat Triad territory, and we're about to put you in the hospital.
Korra: You're the only ones who are gonna need a hospital, and for your sake, I hope there's one nearby.
Viper: Who do you think you are?
Korra: Why don't you come and find out.
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« Reply #47 on: Oct 31, 2014 07:54 am »

You know something must be f'd up when Varrick thinks something is too dangerous and he won't work on it.

Wow. We've never heard Zhou Lee speak so much! Wow.

Kuviria is batsh!t crazy, yo. She's blinded by her own vision much like Sozin probably was.

The Asami-Hiroshi reunion seems really random. Holy wow did he age a lot in 3 years, but I guess he was decently grey in season 1 anyway. There's probably/obviously a plot in the future that significantly involves him or else they wouldn't have done this.

Suyin is obviously going to fail in whatever it is that she's planning as evident by the trailer.

These cliffhangers are getting SUPER old.
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mmoon24
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« Reply #48 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:11 am »

Am I the only one who found Su's refusal to help the Earth Kingdom a bit...cold? I mean, not to say karman is a b, but she should have done SOMETHING.

Varrick's moral conscious honestly came out of no where IMO.

I'm hating Kuvira more each episode. I really hope Korra does not lose to her next episode. A draw or Kuvira getting threatened before Kuvira pulls a "Stop or I'll kill yo friends" manuever.

The Sato plot better go somewhere in the long run. They are gonna need some mechs from him.

Bataar Jr can kiss my butt. He's a 20 something year old with a mind of a 13 year old "Wahhh, wahhh, I hate you mom! I hate you dad".
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Uzuko
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« Reply #49 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:21 am »

I wonder it Hiroshi still has any negative sentiment toward benders. Realising that he was horrible to his daughter doesn't have to mean that he has changed his viewpoint on bending.

I think all his anger went away with his hair color.
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