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Question: Rate This Episode:
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Author Topic: [403] The Coronation  (Read 45397 times)
BlackPanther1012
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« Reply #425 on: Oct 21, 2014 11:15 am »

Watched the episode.

Interesting.

On the one hand, Toph made me laugh because she reminds me of a lot of senile old ladies I know. Was she being harsh? Yep. But that's within character and I don't mind the inclusion of someone who's 'not nice'. Her point that Korra has to want to be better is right.

But if 'tough love' becomes the answer to Korra's PTSD I will not be happy. There's a certain amount of discipline needed when caring for someone with a mental illness. But you don't berate a sick person to being healthy. It takes much more than that. I'll keep my opinion reserved for the moment. I don't think Korra's going to be herself again until much later this season.

Interesting to note, though, that the poison is still within her. Again, I will not be happy if the removal of said poison magically makes Korra better. Let's not reinforce the metaphor for lobotomies, please, as being the answer to mental illness. But I feel more confident here that we'll not go down that path. Please.

As of right now, Korra's problems are physical and psychological. Pulling the poison out of her will complete her physical healing process but will do nothing for her mental health. And, as for as I can see, it has absolutely nothing to do Raava's mysterious vacation.

Did anyone else point out it was pointless for Toph to fight with her back turned? She's already blind, it doesn't make much of a difference or one at all. It was kind of like when she was training Aang and made an opening where her eyes were in her rock armor, but she's blind so it was a moot point as well.

She didn't do it for her. She did it for Aang (and Korra).
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ALTA_FAN
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« Reply #426 on: Oct 21, 2014 03:31 pm »

When Toph talked about the streets always staying the same, I thought it was very wise.  Korra is haunted by her responsibilities as the Avatar.  But Toph let her know that no matter how much she kills herself, there will always come a new evil, and other people need to pick up the slack.  Not that Korra should give up, but that she can take a step back (as Tenzin wanted, commisioning the AN as peacekeepers), get right, and make sure her head is on straight.

The problem isn't what Toph said, it's that she said it as someone who had given up.

This.

And, the way she delivered it sounded like she was bitter about the above. That would be my opinion, though.

And I guess I'm not the only one who thought that Varrick is creating an energy source... am I?
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ThePilot
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« Reply #427 on: Oct 21, 2014 04:59 pm »

Im surprised i havent seen anybody else bring this up, but did any one notice when Wu threw his drink at those Kuvira supporters, one of them yells, "im covered in juice!" Then we see mako and Wu running away, and it appears that Mako is covered in juice, but then when the camera cuts to a new perspective, the juice magically disappears? I wish i had screenshots to show but this seems like a pretty big animation error
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Rava
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« Reply #428 on: Oct 21, 2014 05:53 pm »

^

Shouldn't that (also) be posted in "Interesting Things Noticed In Korra"?



Given that we know that forgiveness is a main key for book 4, my bet is on a development for Kuvira's background until the present, showing a path that evolves towards redemption. How it will happen, it's a matter of waiting and seeing, soon. So far, we haven't seen the 'villains' being redeemed in LoK (even in ATLA), but I guess we will see it now, for the first time.

Hopefully, we will. Sure, Kuvira now seems to be power hungry and nasty towards folks opposing her, but she started with helping fight chaos and robbers all over the EK when no one else wanted to step up doing that grunt work... and most probably got a high from that power...
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« Reply #429 on: Oct 21, 2014 06:33 pm »

^

Shouldn't that (also) be posted in "Interesting Things Noticed In Korra"?



Given that we know that forgiveness is a main key for book 4, my bet is on a development for Kuvira's background until the present, showing a path that evolves towards redemption. How it will happen, it's a matter of waiting and seeing, soon. So far, we haven't seen the 'villains' being redeemed in LoK (even in ATLA), but I guess we will see it now, for the first time.

Hopefully, we will. Sure, Kuvira now seems to be power hungry and nasty towards folks opposing her, but she started with helping fight chaos and robbers all over the EK when no one else wanted to step up doing that grunt work... and most probably got a high from that power...

Well frankly, the one thing she is right about is that Wu does not belong on the throne.  If I were her, and had just spent three years putting the pieces of Wu's Aunt's failure back together and the guy immediately began hitting on me in the goofiest manner possible before his coronation, I'd tell them to all go bend themselves before I'd hand the crown over to him either... difference being I'd simply be holding out until a better candidate was offered.
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« Reply #430 on: Oct 21, 2014 06:43 pm »

But who better than herself? ^^

Kuvira doesn't believe in the system of monarchy. It's archaic and succesion by bloodline is prone to chaos. Offering a better candidate for the position doesn't seem like something that'd convince her.
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« Reply #431 on: Oct 21, 2014 06:57 pm »

Did anyone else point out it was pointless for Toph to fight with her back turned? She's already blind, it doesn't make much of a difference or one at all. It was kind of like when she was training Aang and made an opening where her eyes were in her rock armor, but she's blind so it was a moot point as well.

She didn't do it for her. She did it for Aang (and Korra).

Psych warfare.  She knows she's blind, but it still trips out those who aren't used to it.  (Although the rock armor was a weird one.  Cheesy)
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« Reply #432 on: Oct 21, 2014 07:28 pm »

When Toph talked about the streets always staying the same, I thought it was very wise.  Korra is haunted by her responsibilities as the Avatar.  But Toph let her know that no matter how much she kills herself, there will always come a new evil, and other people need to pick up the slack.  Not that Korra should give up, but that she can take a step back (as Tenzin wanted, commisioning the AN as peacekeepers), get right, and make sure her head is on straight.

The problem isn't what Toph said, it's that she said it as someone who had given up.

It sounded to me like Toph was more annoyed that it wasn't obvious to Korra. Of course deafening Amon and Zaheer meant something, but that doesn't mean there won't be more Amons and Zaheers for future Avatars to face. I think what Toph was telling her was that while the world needs it's Avatar and always will, Korra shouldn't beat herself up for not solving every problem.
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Nastalgic99
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« Reply #433 on: Oct 21, 2014 09:30 pm »

Was highly disappointed with Tonraq for not saying anything when Kuvira grew a pair. Then again the EK never helped the  southern water tribe anyway so screw 'em.
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« Reply #434 on: Oct 21, 2014 10:37 pm »

Did anyone else point out it was pointless for Toph to fight with her back turned? She's already blind, it doesn't make much of a difference or one at all. It was kind of like when she was training Aang and made an opening where her eyes were in her rock armor, but she's blind so it was a moot point as well.

She didn't do it for her. She did it for Aang (and Korra).

Psych warfare.  She knows she's blind, but it still trips out those who aren't used to it.  (Although the rock armor was a weird one.  Cheesy)

The rock armor was actually an animation error. The hole was supposed to be over her nose and mouth. I think they mentioned in in the episode commentary.
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« Reply #435 on: Oct 22, 2014 02:13 am »

Korra is haunted by her responsibilities as the Avatar.  But Toph let her know that no matter how much she kills herself, there will always come a new evil, and other people need to pick up the slack.  Not that Korra should give up, but that she can take a step back (as Tenzin wanted, commisioning the AN as peacekeepers), get right, and make sure her head is on straight.

The problem isn't what Toph said, it's that she said it as someone who had given up.

Also, she did not correct Korra when Korra summed up her standpoint as "everything I've accomplished was pointless", and that made it look like she agreed. That's a problem. It's not right to jump to the conclusion that just because you can't make crime disappear forever, stopping some crimes is pointless. The few people you prevented from being victimized will never agree with you.
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shorewall
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« Reply #436 on: Oct 22, 2014 03:12 am »

Was highly disappointed with Tonraq for not saying anything when Kuvira grew a pair. Then again the EK never helped the  southern water tribe anyway so screw 'em.

See the shipping thread for Tonvira.  Wink
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« Reply #437 on: Oct 22, 2014 01:18 pm »

Korra is haunted by her responsibilities as the Avatar.  But Toph let her know that no matter how much she kills herself, there will always come a new evil, and other people need to pick up the slack.  Not that Korra should give up, but that she can take a step back (as Tenzin wanted, commisioning the AN as peacekeepers), get right, and make sure her head is on straight.

The problem isn't what Toph said, it's that she said it as someone who had given up.

Also, she did not correct Korra when Korra summed up her standpoint as "everything I've accomplished was pointless", and that made it look like she agreed. That's a problem. It's not right to jump to the conclusion that just because you can't make crime disappear forever, stopping some crimes is pointless. The few people you prevented from being victimized will never agree with you.

I think I see this a little differently. I am of the belief that Toph is trying to make Korra come to the point you described on her own. Korra is battling with whether or not her existence and her efforts make a difference. And she needs to realize for herself that it does not matter if she can fix the world so that nothing bad will happen ever again. Sometimes when you can't decide what you believe, it helps to hear the side that you ultimately disagree with from someone else. It can help you realize the flaws in that idea.

And I know I have seen this exact technique used on some TV show or movie. I really wish I could remember which one.
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« Reply #438 on: Oct 25, 2014 10:02 pm »

Okay, usually I'm primarily interested in Korra's storyline, and not so much in that of the secondary characters. I haven't rewatched 'the sting' in ages, for example, and I don't think i've even gotten around to rewatching 'original airbenders' yet (despite fairly liking the characters, I'm usually not too interested in them on their own too far outside of Korra's storyline), but in season 4 I'm totally hooked on Mako and Wu, and Kuvira and all the characters around her (Bolin, Bataar, etc,). In the previewclip before the season ajred Wu just seemed annoyingly obnoxious, but now I really love him Grin I was rewatching this episode again specifically for Mako and Wu's parts!
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« Reply #439 on: Oct 26, 2014 04:22 am »

Was highly disappointed with Tonraq for not saying anything when Kuvira grew a pair. Then again the EK never helped the  southern water tribe anyway so screw 'em.

In reality it makes sense that the world leaders tried a more diplomatic approach. The world had just put an end to a hundred year world war, the least that they need is to create more tension than the one the world most likely still has as a result of the changes the world war brought with it. Fighting Kuvira there would only make her supporters angry and defensive, and that would cause even more turmoil. The EK also has the largest resources so most nations can't afford to be at war again.
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Nastalgic99
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« Reply #440 on: Oct 27, 2014 08:08 pm »

Quote
In reality it makes sense that the world leaders tried a more diplomatic approach.
So diplomacy is sending someone who didn't even care about helping the EK to speak on their behalf Undecided
Quote
The world had just put an end to a hundred year world war, the least that they need is to create more tension than the one the world most likely still has as a result of the changes the world war brought with it.
Ok. So how does doing nothing solve the problem Huh
Quote
Fighting Kuvira there would only make her supporters angry and defensive, and that would cause even more turmoil.
I said speak out, not fight. She straight up depowered Wu at his own coronation, dared anyone to do anything about it, and threatened violent consequences for those who meddle in EE affairs.
Quote
The EK also has the largest resources so most nations can't afford to be at war again.
I Know that, so does Kuvira.
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« Reply #441 on: Oct 27, 2014 08:55 pm »

Diplomacy was sending the one person among them that knew Kuvira the best and actually was mentioned in her little speech about coming into the belief that the rule of succession was archaic. It made the most sense to send her former leader and mentor to try to reason with her.

What exactly could they do then and there? Say, "Sorry, Wan is the ruler now, you have no power". The army is loyal and devoted to her as well as several citizens who don't want another monarch. Also if they try to speak out against her it may incite resentment over the world trying to impose their rule on the Earth Kingdom/Empire again. It would be like "First they make us give up our land and now they're trying to make an incompetent man be a puppet king?!!!!" So they have to play this game very delicately, because they could end up being perceived as the enemy and Kuvira looking like a hero.
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Nastalgic99
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« Reply #442 on: Oct 31, 2014 01:20 am »

Quote
Diplomacy was sending the one person among them that knew Kuvira the best and actually was mentioned in her little speech about coming into the belief that the rule of succession was archaic.It made the most sense to send her former leader and mentor to try to reason with her.
Well it would have been diplomatic prior to that speech of her's but the cement dried up on that issue. She blatantly depowered Wu and dared them to do something. Talk time was over as soon as those words left her mouth.

Quote
What exactly could they do then and there? Say, "Sorry, Wan is the ruler now, you have no power".
Wasn't that the agreement she had with Riako Huh

Quote
The army is loyal and devoted to her as well as several citizens who don't want another monarch. Also if they try to speak out against her it may incite resentment over the world trying to impose their rule on the Earth Kingdom/Empire again
So how is Kuvira better? She blackmails and threatens people to work for her. She is the new monarch, her face is plastered all over the EK, people must pledge and bow to her, she manipulates states, destroys families Roll Eyes, etc. We're not even at halftime yet  Embarrassed

Quote
It would be like "First they make us give up our land and now they're trying to make an incompetent man be a puppet king?!!!!" So they have to play this game very delicately, because they could end up being perceived as the enemy and Kuvira looking like a hero.
Game? The game was over when they blindly trusted her with all that power. Riako's "she gave me her word" made me
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2014 01:42 am by Nastalgic99 » Logged

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Yangchen
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« Reply #443 on: Oct 31, 2014 05:29 am »


Game? The game was over when they blindly trusted her with all that power.

This was their first mistake. The second was to sit by while unsettling rumors of her "Great Uniter" project reached them and comfort themselves with the notion that she had given her word that she would hand over power ... So nothing bad was going to happen.

Perhaps we will find out later that there was some kind of attempt to oversee what she was doing. But as of right now it appears that she was given free rein to do as she pleased. She may have become a dictator but she is one that the other world leaders indirectly helped to create.
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Nastalgic99
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« Reply #444 on: Oct 31, 2014 08:12 am »

Was i wrong about Kuvira Roll Eyes
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BlackPanther1012
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« Reply #445 on: Oct 31, 2014 10:55 am »

Was i wrong about Kuvira Roll Eyes

Only time will tell...?
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« Reply #446 on: Nov 21, 2014 03:40 am »

It's quite funny when Kuvira rubbed 'revolution' and 'belligerence' right in front of all the world leaders faces and no one even at least tried to make her budge from that spot. Understand that her presence, with her supporters there, was very threatening and if someone really tried something we all know that it'll be all in vain, but the tension in the atmosphere wasn't conveyed very well.

On another note... why did Toph decided to help out Korra again? Because she can't stand her looking helpless like that? Hmmm.... I was expecting a different, harsher motive, or maybe she'd start out as uncaring at all but... Gotta admit she's worked with an avatar before, and as ex-chief of police I bet she still has a high sense of justice tucked inside that lovely grandma bun.

Korra is haunted by her responsibilities as the Avatar.  But Toph let her know that no matter how much she kills herself, there will always come a new evil, and other people need to pick up the slack.  Not that Korra should give up, but that she can take a step back (as Tenzin wanted, commisioning the AN as peacekeepers), get right, and make sure her head is on straight.

The problem isn't what Toph said, it's that she said it as someone who had given up.

Also, she did not correct Korra when Korra summed up her standpoint as "everything I've accomplished was pointless", and that made it look like she agreed. That's a problem. It's not right to jump to the conclusion that just because you can't make crime disappear forever, stopping some crimes is pointless. The few people you prevented from being victimized will never agree with you.

I think I see this a little differently. I am of the belief that Toph is trying to make Korra come to the point you described on her own. Korra is battling with whether or not her existence and her efforts make a difference. And she needs to realize for herself that it does not matter if she can fix the world so that nothing bad will happen ever again. Sometimes when you can't decide what you believe, it helps to hear the side that you ultimately disagree with from someone else. It can help you realize the flaws in that idea.

And I know I have seen this exact technique used on some TV show or movie. I really wish I could remember which one.
Another different opinion here. I think her line was truth. No matter how hard you try, chaos is the natural order. That's just how the world is But if humans are meant to leave things like that, then we don't need our brains and power of reasoning. Hence our lifelong journey for perfection.
Anyway if the problem is in the way Toph was conveying the message, then that's... actually not a problem. There's no way Toph can convey it the other way around. She wouldn't use a gentle tone, nor add a bit of "don't lose hope" lipservice in the end. Like I did above. Toph will simply let Korra figure out the rest of her message by herself or wouldn't even think about that at all haha
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