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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 56 (45.5%)
9 - 30 (24.4%)
8 - 26 (21.1%)
7 - 7 (5.7%)
6 - 4 (3.3%)
5 - 0 (0%)
4 - 0 (0%)
3 - 0 (0%)
2 - 0 (0%)
1 - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 123

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Author Topic: [401] After All These Years  (Read 83222 times)
luvavatar
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« Reply #375 on: Oct 05, 2014 10:56 pm »

There is the possibility that she has been behind some bandit attacks, however that still demonstrates how weak those provinces are and the bandits don't go for the kill. However if she hired the plane bandits, they may not have been aiming to kill because it was Opal that was on the sky bison.

Does anyone think that Tonraq pretty much knew that Korra wasn't on Air Temple Island? Tvtropes said that it's possible, since he didn't seem all too shocked that Korra wasn't there. He was a little surprised, but more likely it was just confirming what he may have already known. If Korra was really going to Air Temple Island, why would she leave behind Naga, especially for six months? That would've definitely been an out of character alert.
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morbosfist
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« Reply #376 on: Oct 05, 2014 10:58 pm »

Does anyone think that Tonraq pretty much knew that Korra wasn't on Air Temple Island? Tvtropes said that it's possible, since he didn't seem all too shocked that Korra wasn't there. He was a little surprised, but more likely it was just confirming what he may have already known. If Korra was really going to Air Temple Island, why would she leave behind Naga, especially for six months? That would've definitely been an out of character alert.
They are just guessing, but I wouldn't be surprised if he admitted to suspecting as much in the next episode. Frankly, I'm surprised she managed this ruse for six months. You'd think there'd have been a call or something between the two parties for them to figure out Korra played them.
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Old School
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« Reply #377 on: Oct 05, 2014 11:01 pm »

The only thing the army's done is protect the people, Kuvira didn't conscript anyone; when the Governor said no she moved her entire forces outside the border. When the dude with no army told her to leave she did anyway.  Kuvira never said " will kill you" she said "they will kill you." which they would. Kuvira didnt do anything without permission; she could have just barged in anyway when it became clear the Governor was going to gamble is people on ego; but instead she went through the proper legal channels and came in once he signed the deal fair and square. Kuvira hasnt even forced anyone to join by force of arms; all she did is do what any government should do; offer the people general welfare and common defense, and if there current regime couldnt provide that ,it was there responsibility to hand the reins over to someone who could.

You like to talk a lot about the governors ego while ignoring Kuvira's own.  She's the most egotistical person in the episode.

Kuvira has a lot of military and political power backing up her ego right now. What does the governor have to back his up? A town full of people who have already demonstrated that they are neither willing nor able to fight back?
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Omninaut
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« Reply #378 on: Oct 05, 2014 11:04 pm »

The only thing the army's done is protect the people, Kuvira didn't conscript anyone; when the Governor said no she moved her entire forces outside the border. When the dude with no army told her to leave she did anyway.  Kuvira never said " will kill you" she said "they will kill you." which they would. Kuvira didnt do anything without permission; she could have just barged in anyway when it became clear the Governor was going to gamble is people on ego; but instead she went through the proper legal channels and came in once he signed the deal fair and square. Kuvira hasnt even forced anyone to join by force of arms; all she did is do what any government should do; offer the people general welfare and common defense, and if there current regime couldnt provide that ,it was there responsibility to hand the reins over to someone who could.

You like to talk a lot about the governors ego while ignoring Kuvira's own.  She's the most egotistical person in the episode.

This is true, but like I said, it's about getting the job done. The Governors ego turned Yi into a failed state, Kuvira's saved it. He told the person with the massive Banditbusting army with provisions to get out of town. And she did. Ignoring any emotive nonsense and focuses on the hard facts, Kuvira's reign as shown in the show is objectively superior to the alternative. She's providing the basics of humanity (common defense and general welfare) that the Air Nation and Governor couldnt and she's doing it all only when being asked. Couple that with the technological advancement and the only "downside" is ceding authority; which isnst even that bad given how ineffective their own was.
It's like CPS with an unfit mother.

You seem determined to be apologetic for her. No, they aren't just protecting people, they're essentially running a country-wide protection racket. They offer disproportionate deals that the towns have to accept, and don't do a thing to actually stop the bandits because the bandits are part of her sales pitch. She's forcing these towns to join up, pure and simple, because she knows sooner or later their need to survive will outweigh their better judgement.

Say she had done nothing and the governor had refused to the very end. The town would have been wiped out by bandits and she could freely annex it without so much as a fight. The bandits would run. The deal benefits her either way.

Speak about legality all you like, that doesn't make what she's doing ok. Payday lenders trap you in a cycle of debt that can be impossible to escape, and everything they do is legal (well, most of the time). Is it legal? Yes. Is it exploitation? Yes.

By that definition, every state authority is a protection racket (which certain anarchists would claim is true). What is wrong about submitting to the only authority that's shown itself capable of taking care of you? The deal wasnt even that disproportional , it just gave administration over to the EK's Head of State (Kuvira as Internationally Appointed Provisional President) , and given she was the only power capable of providing the responsibilities to the government, there is no logical reason why they shouldnt join her.

People are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The current regime was severely incompetent on all those  fronts, so it was the governor's responsibility as there  established leader to secure those rights or yield to someone who could.

Given the Yi Government had failed to uphold any of its duties as a government, the people would have been well within there rights to overthrw the Governor and join Kuvira anyway
« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2014 11:14 pm by Omninaut » Logged


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Ikkin
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« Reply #379 on: Oct 05, 2014 11:14 pm »

It also funny because Kuvira literally IS asking please. She hasn't even conquered once, everything was done consent of the governed.  Might as well say Texas or Virginia was conquered.  States joining the union by choice because they are not better off alone.

Forget Texas and Virginia... how about Rhode Island?  "Join or we put giant tariffs on your tiny state's exports (...causing several of your major towns to secede)."  Gotta love politics.  =P
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« Reply #380 on: Oct 06, 2014 12:43 am »

I forgot to say my one slight minor problem with the episode is the pronunciation of the State of Yi.

C'mon, there's no 'a' in it! Why pronounce it as "yai"?? It's pronounced like the letter "E". So simple. For an Asian influenced show, the names are always said in a Westernized manner ever since the ATLA days. Why hire a person with a PhD to write all the texts in the show but can't teach you how to say the names properly? Roll Eyes
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Colonel_Brian
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« Reply #381 on: Oct 06, 2014 12:47 am »

I thought it was the State of Yai. Did anyone actually confirm that it is Yi?
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #382 on: Oct 06, 2014 12:49 am »

This is true, but like I said, it's about getting the job done. The Governors ego turned Yi into a failed state, Kuvira's saved it. He told the person with the massive Banditbusting army with provisions to get out of town. And she did. Ignoring any emotive nonsense and focuses on the hard facts, Kuvira's reign as shown in the show is objectively superior to the alternative. She's providing the basics of humanity (common defense and general welfare) that the Air Nation and Governor couldnt and she's doing it all only when being asked. Couple that with the technological advancement and the only "downside" is ceding authority; which isnst even that bad given how ineffective their own was.
It's like CPS with an unfit mother.

We've had this argument before.  Objectivity is more often than not, when bandied in politics, complete and utter bullturd that a person in power utilizes to gussy up their 'me me me' crap.  Objectively, I'd rather purchase and sit on one pile of crap than on two piles of crap but that doesn't make me any happier to have to sit on any crap at all, and the person forcing me to pick one is still just a seller of crap.

The only reason the air nation couldn't provide for them was because Kuvira sent one of her recently acquired bandits to steal the food.  We can even as freely assume that the food collected from the neighboring villages was supplied sympathetically by other villages that are as worried about Kuvira's collection of states as Yu seemed to be.

Once again, the Governor did not turn Yi into a failed state.  The government did when it set itself up to collapse having no workable plan for when their Queen was assassinated.
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2014 12:59 am by ViridianIV » Logged

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zukataang
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« Reply #383 on: Oct 06, 2014 12:50 am »

Ominaut, Is it really just "ego" that was preventing Yai's governor from handing over authority or was he just not comfortable with ceding his power to someone who he strongly suspects to have deleterious ulterior motives?

Maybe giving up all his power for food and shelter is the best thing to do in the short term, but it's justified for him to prefer the selfless help that Tenzin was supposed to provide over help that compels him to bow before someone who he believes to be likely to abuse her power in the future.

I don't think it's correct to say his only problem was his "ego". I think Kuvira was just being manipulative when she painted it that way.
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2014 01:11 am by zukataang » Logged
Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #384 on: Oct 06, 2014 01:01 am »

I thought it was the State of Yai. Did anyone actually confirm that it is Yi?
Closed captions from the episode says Yi. My translations say Yi too. =P

There is also no such word as "yai" in the Chinese dictionary...
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The_Xov
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« Reply #385 on: Oct 06, 2014 01:25 am »

Don't y'all know not to doubt ur resident Chinese language expert?! lol
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« Reply #386 on: Oct 06, 2014 01:30 am »

Any word yet on the view count for this first episode?
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« Reply #387 on: Oct 06, 2014 01:33 am »

I don't think they ever release those. They didnt for all the book 3 episodes that appeared online either.

On the subject of views though, the book 4 trailer is almost at 5.7 million.
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« Reply #388 on: Oct 06, 2014 01:48 am »

Good thing is Book 3 & the first ep of Book 4 are now on iTunes. Phew.
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Magicman710
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« Reply #389 on: Oct 06, 2014 02:07 am »

I forgot to say my one slight minor problem with the episode is the pronunciation of the State of Yi.

C'mon, there's no 'a' in it! Why pronounce it as "yai"?? It's pronounced like the letter "E". So simple. For an Asian influenced show, the names are always said in a Westernized manner ever since the ATLA days. Why hire a person with a PhD to write all the texts in the show but can't teach you how to say the names properly? Roll Eyes

Yai sounds better than yee?
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aa623
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« Reply #390 on: Oct 06, 2014 02:13 am »

It is a different world. Yes the writing is in Chinese, but they don't speak it nor is it called Chinese in the context of the world. They can pronounce things however they feel necessary. My name and several names of people I know are pronounced differently than they're spelled and said different depending on who is saying it.

However, I don't know why they pronounced it "Yai" because even when I look at it spelled "Yi" I pronounce it "Yee" and I was born and raised in the US, so who knows.
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« Reply #391 on: Oct 06, 2014 02:23 am »

The cultural background, most of the martial arts and philosophy and the writing might be eastern, but the pronunciations are Americanized. I wouldn't know whether it's intentional or if the voice actors take a pronunciation and they just run with it. It's a mish-mash of east and west I guess. Westernized East.
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« Reply #392 on: Oct 06, 2014 02:24 am »

It is pronounced as short "E" without the 'y' sound. There's no extended 'ee' effect either.

'Cos Yi has the letter "I" which sounds like "ai" so therefore, people pronounce it as "yai"... Aye.
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« Reply #393 on: Oct 06, 2014 02:56 am »

Yeah I'm not sure but I would never pronounce it "Yai" unless it was spelled that way.

The Avatar universe clearly take inspiration from various cultures so I never get too hung up on pronunciations because it is not our world.
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« Reply #394 on: Oct 06, 2014 03:15 am »

My explanation is that if you use Chinese to write down your words, then please, at least pronounce it the way it should be.
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« Reply #395 on: Oct 06, 2014 03:16 am »

In chinese, not English Cheesy
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« Reply #396 on: Oct 06, 2014 03:33 am »

I forgot to say my one slight minor problem with the episode is the pronunciation of the State of Yi.

C'mon, there's no 'a' in it! Why pronounce it as "yai"?? It's pronounced like the letter "E". So simple. For an Asian influenced show, the names are always said in a Westernized manner ever since the ATLA days. Why hire a person with a PhD to write all the texts in the show but can't teach you how to say the names properly? Roll Eyes

Funny seeing an ASN mod agree with Shamalan.
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« Reply #397 on: Oct 06, 2014 03:36 am »

That guy we don't talk about butchered the pronunciations...
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« Reply #398 on: Oct 06, 2014 03:38 am »

Didn't the movie use Japanese pronunciations instead?
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #399 on: Oct 06, 2014 03:42 am »

Didn't the movie use Japanese pronunciations instead?

Yes in his own words it was something that was very important to him and that he fought for.  He just HAD to use the real traditional oriental pronunciations.  It was incredibly important unlike casting actual oriental's for the roles... but like, I'm not a film guy so what do I know.
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