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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 126 (78.3%)
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Author Topic: [313] Venom of the Red Lotus  (Read 49289 times)
NextFireBend
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« Reply #725 on: Sep 06, 2014 11:47 am »

That was like the exact point of that whole thing with Pathik, though. Aang always knew that he could (turn the Avatar State on/off) but that was what he struggled with. He was emotional and very passionate about Katara, the idea of even momentarily letting her go for the sake of the Avatar State wasn't something he wanted to wrap his head around. Tongue
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Or he watches Glee idk.
ZippyLittleRat
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« Reply #726 on: Sep 06, 2014 05:42 pm »

On a slightly different subject, my favorite line in the finale was from Lin: "Hang in there, Kid." To me, that spoke volumes. It's still classic, not-overly emotional Lin Beifong, but coming from a woman like Lin, that comment was high praise and sincere indeed.
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The_Xov
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« Reply #727 on: Sep 07, 2014 01:33 pm »

That was like the exact point of that whole thing with Pathik, though. Aang always knew that he could (turn the Avatar State on/off) but that was what he struggled with. He was emotional and very passionate about Katara, the idea of even momentarily letting her go for the sake of the Avatar State wasn't something he wanted to wrap his head around. Tongue
Did he, though?  W/regards to the Avatar state itself, I have no doubt he picked up on the user's ability to toggle it at will (even before Pathik, we and Aang were shown this - episodes 2-05 and 3-06 are examples).  But until this week, I was always of the belief that permanent detachment of worldly tethers was the key to such mastery of the Avatar State, not that such detachment was also an at-will thing.  And it's how Pathik sold it to Aang.

Poor communication.  The bane of heros everywhere.
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Rava
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« Reply #728 on: Sep 07, 2014 03:32 pm »

That was like the exact point of that whole thing with Pathik, though. Aang always knew that he could (turn the Avatar State on/off) but that was what he struggled with. He was emotional and very passionate about Katara, the idea of even momentarily letting her go for the sake of the Avatar State wasn't something he wanted to wrap his head around. Tongue

That makes me think... Zaheer did know he had to let go earthly bindings... and that means he had to let go of P'Li, which he would not have done if she was alive.

Was a part of him happy (in a twisted, perverted way) that she died? Was he pondering and meditating his live without her prior that moment already to be prepared, to be able to enter the void?
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ZippyLittleRat
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« Reply #729 on: Sep 07, 2014 11:02 pm »

I will say, the way he called out to P'Li just as she was leaving the temple did at least suggest that the thought of her being his tether had crossed his mind. He looked conflicted, and also sincere.
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The_Xov
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« Reply #730 on: Sep 08, 2014 12:10 am »

That was like the exact point of that whole thing with Pathik, though. Aang always knew that he could (turn the Avatar State on/off) but that was what he struggled with. He was emotional and very passionate about Katara, the idea of even momentarily letting her go for the sake of the Avatar State wasn't something he wanted to wrap his head around. Tongue

That makes me think... Zaheer did know he had to let go earthly bindings... and that means he had to let go of P'Li, which he would not have done if she was alive.

Was a part of him happy (in a twisted, perverted way) that she died? Was he pondering and meditating his live without her prior that moment already to be prepared, to be able to enter the void?
Ya know, in a sick way, her death was a mercy killing compared to what Zaheer might've done if he got frustrated and desperate...
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Rava
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« Reply #731 on: Sep 08, 2014 06:55 pm »

Ya know, in a sick way, her death was a mercy killing compared to what Zaheer might've done if he got frustrated and desperate...

RL makes for good fanficion, as in: really good. And by that I mean horrific, drastic, bizarre, brutal, M rated, or even PG35TM by Rava (only suitable for readers of 35 years old and above) xD
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yours Rava

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fraroc
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« Reply #732 on: Sep 11, 2014 02:25 pm »

One of my favorite scenes was when Jinora's tornado sucked up Zaheer and Korra while the original ATLA theme played.....That was so beautiful...

Ya know, in a sick way, her death was a mercy killing compared to what Zaheer might've done if he got frustrated and desperate...

RL makes for good fanficion, as in: really good. And by that I mean horrific, drastic, bizarre, brutal, M rated, or even PG35TM by Rava (only suitable for readers of 35 years old and above) xD

Oh like Ming Hua giving Ghazan a stump-..........on second thought, lets talk about something more family friendly....'


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Arban
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« Reply #733 on: Sep 21, 2014 04:57 am »

Just before Zaheer unlocked the ability of flight, I felt like he was contemplating suicide. I mean, he was backed in a corner with no option, and P'li had died so he just closed his eyes, and decided to jump off the cliff along with Korra.
Then all of a sudden, BAM, he could fly. And when Ming Hua asked him about it, Zaheer said "I didn't know I could".
So basically, was he about to commit suicide, taking Korra down with him?
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #734 on: Sep 21, 2014 05:48 am »

^That's a really good point. I saw it as him having no other option than to try that. But wanting to commit suicide works much better with "letting go of earthly attachments".
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Ikkin
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« Reply #735 on: Sep 21, 2014 07:07 am »

Just before Zaheer unlocked the ability of flight, I felt like he was contemplating suicide. I mean, he was backed in a corner with no option, and P'li had died so he just closed his eyes, and decided to jump off the cliff along with Korra.
Then all of a sudden, BAM, he could fly. And when Ming Hua asked him about it, Zaheer said "I didn't know I could".
So basically, was he about to commit suicide, taking Korra down with him?

I don't think it was as intentional as that, but I don't think he would have cared all that much if he died.

Reciting the mantra strongly suggested that he hoped he'd unlock the power of flight.  But he was desperate and in a bad position, and he knew there was a good chance it wouldn't work.  He was just so detached by that point that if he fell to his death, oh well, at least he'd take Korra down with him.
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Loopy
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« Reply #736 on: Sep 21, 2014 05:25 pm »

See, flying really is just throwing yourself at the ground and missing.
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Esperaholon
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« Reply #737 on: Sep 21, 2014 09:27 pm »

No, no, no... flying is throwing yourself at the ground and missing - while firmly forgetting that you should be falling. See you can't miss the ground on purpose, it has to be by accident - that is you have to suddenly have your attention drawn away from the ground. (Like I don't know... your girlfriend suddenly losing her head in the most literal sense.) Because the moment you remember that little detail gravity will look at you quite smartly and there will be hell to pay.

So basically... Guru Lagahima was the Avatar universe answer to Sir Douglas Adam. What is that warm feeling in my chest? It feels...it feels like happiness? Of all wonders...

Oh... wait! I was supposed to be agreeing with Loopy! For Science! Ugh! Okay, next time - and then we'll know...

Sidenote for Loopy: It has come to my attention that if you, I, Ikkin, and either NextFireBend or Fire Rose all agree on something (anything) together... the world will end. I need to see if that is true - for science. Also Cthulhu, but mostly science.

Ahem... The sky is blue. Do you concur? 
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Weege the Airbender
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« Reply #738 on: Sep 21, 2014 09:29 pm »

Just before Zaheer unlocked the ability of flight, I felt like he was contemplating suicide. I mean, he was backed in a corner with no option, and P'li had died so he just closed his eyes, and decided to jump off the cliff along with Korra.
Then all of a sudden, BAM, he could fly. And when Ming Hua asked him about it, Zaheer said "I didn't know I could".
So basically, was he about to commit suicide, taking Korra down with him?

He would have failed his mission if he killed himself with Korra coming down with him.
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morbosfist
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« Reply #739 on: Sep 21, 2014 09:50 pm »

He would have failed his mission if he killed himself with Korra coming down with him.
He would have failed his mission anyway. If you're going to fail, might as well do some damage on the way out. The world would be without an Avatar for a decade or so.
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Loopy
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« Reply #740 on: Sep 22, 2014 06:41 pm »

Ahem... The sky is blue. Do you concur? 

It depends how you define "blue." Grin


So basically... Guru Lagahima was the Avatar universe answer to Sir Douglas Adam.

How improbable.

I bet he left behind a book of 42 wisdoms.
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Esperaholon
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« Reply #741 on: Sep 22, 2014 07:13 pm »

It depends how you define "blue." Grin

Ha ha... the end approaches - one day we will reach agreement. And the Great Ones will rise from the deep to bring the Lasting Euphoria of the Song of Madness.

Also grass in areas not known as the Savannah is generally considered to be a color known as green, yes?

How improbable.

I bet he left behind a book of 42 wisdoms.

Improbable, hmm? I bet that and some spirit powers could make a truly awesome spaceship. Although I wonder if they have anything like the math for it...

And actually I think he added a post-script about ... dolphins? It was really unclear.
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zukofan21
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« Reply #742 on: Oct 04, 2014 10:40 pm »

Not to mention building P'li up as having a sympathetic backstory just before throwing her into her final battle.

Do you think they are setting any of that up for a sort of prequel? Either in show format or comic? You've got to wonder if they'd do a series following a character in the Avatar universe that isn't an Avatar. They made P'li, Ghazan, and Ming Hua somewhat likable and the audience curious. It would almost feel like a cheat to not explore those back-stories now.

I agree. I would love to read the White/Red Lotus comflict as well as how Zaheer, Ghazan, Ming Hua, and P'Li's backstories and came to be in this society.
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JuDee
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« Reply #743 on: Nov 21, 2014 12:28 am »

Hmm, I quite liked this finale, actually. Apart from Korra breaking free from her platinum chains (I mean, come on, I know the Avatar State's dead strong, but through force, she'd have more chance ripping her arms apart rather than the chains in that position).

P'Li's (why not, Pai Li, I wonder) death.... It was unnecessary, no? I don't know. In a show that tries to be as forgiving as possible, I just can't comprehend the reason behind her being killed off by the writer. Earlier I thought she could be a potential character to explain the reasons behind her supporting Zaheer and such, maybe also her team, make us sympathize with them, you know... But in the end the back story's only a few sentences of narration. Ah well.

Jinora totally takes after Aang it's adorable. Her looks, I mean

I think this season is less of a disaster the the previous one, at least they're not kidding around too much with romance nor badly thought actions... Oh whoops. I mean, there's less of that now. Having a smaller set of characters to focus on and smaller issue scale also helped the story take greater leaps forward. Though we haven't got much of character development, again; Slooowly... some of the characters are evolving. Quite a bit.

In the end, the wondrous cinematography, amazing animation quality and eargasmic soundtracks simply redeem this show in any way imaginable. I feel cheap admitting that, but it's just THAT good.
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Esperaholon
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« Reply #744 on: Nov 25, 2014 07:37 pm »

Hmm, I quite liked this finale, actually. Apart from Korra breaking free from her platinum chains (I mean, come on, I know the Avatar State's dead strong, but through force, she'd have more chance ripping her arms apart rather than the chains in that position).

She didn't break free from her chains - she ripped the chains out of the wall and used them to beat people with - and it was glorious. Besides which while this is more noir than wuxia the characters are made of iron and therefore realism must take a backseat to rule of cool.

Quote
P'Li's (why not, Pai Li, I wonder) death.... It was unnecessary, no? I don't know. In a show that tries to be as forgiving as possible, I just can't comprehend the reason behind her being killed off by the writer. Earlier I thought she could be a potential character to explain the reasons behind her supporting Zaheer and such, maybe also her team, make us sympathize with them, you know... But in the end the back story's only a few sentences of narration. Ah well.

Nah, it was necessary - also I totally predicted this would happen. Really though it's bad enough Zaheer isn't dead, we can't have the others sitting around too. So they all had to be killed off as completely as possible and also P'Li death made flying!Zaheer a thing so it's not a problem for me at all.

On top of that there is no real reason to keep her alive. And her having a backstory could be interesting, but doesn't really serve a purpose like at all. Also sympathizing with a villain is really overrated. Some of the best villains are people you can't really get a grasp on.

Quote
Jinora totally takes after Aang it's adorable. Her looks, I mean

Fan service I could have done without, especially since I do not in anyway support Master!Jinora. They really should just change her name to Marisu.

Quote
I think this season is less of a disaster the the previous one, at least they're not kidding around too much with romance nor badly thought actions... Oh whoops. I mean, there's less of that now. Having a smaller set of characters to focus on and smaller issue scale also helped the story take greater leaps forward. Though we haven't got much of character development, again; Slooowly... some of the characters are evolving. Quite a bit.

Season 2 doesn't really have any romance - it has several Take That and the realization that ATLA's romance was shallower than a kiddie pool. Besides which season 2 comes across as an attempt to actual build on the given characters - outside of Asami who is just a cardboard cutout that needs to "Be a Hero" already and go. That said at least you seem to be enjoying season 3.
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winterlotus90
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« Reply #745 on: Dec 03, 2014 02:33 am »

I have a question that I've been pondering for a while and it was kind of brought up in Season 4 Episode 8. Korra said she was upset when Toph said that the world didn't need her anymore. Well, in the Season 3 finale while she was hallucinating, all of her past enemies told her that the world didn't need her any more and Vaatu said she was "too weak to resist." I don't know if I personally believe this, but does anyone think that Korra has always had a fear of the world not needing her? This is different from her fear of being a bad avatar, obviously. But has she always had a fear of the world not needing her and is that where her hallucinations stemmed from? Or did the mercury poisoning make her mind think things she never previously thought before? My friend thinks that she has always had that fear of the world not needing her, and it came out in her hallucinations. I don't personally feel like she's always had that fear, because even when Toph said it, Korra didn't believe her at first. But then why would Korra hallucinate that? Unless it was just purely the mercury making her think things that is totally unlike her. Because I don't think drugs make you think normally or rationally, lol.. so I don't know why my friend would think that her hallucinations were her own thinking disregarding the fact she had been drugged. What do you all think?
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morbosfist
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« Reply #746 on: Dec 03, 2014 02:35 am »

All her enemies have been spouting that nonsense, which is why she hallucinates it. After getting nearly killed by three different enemies trying to convince you that you have no purpose, you're going to start thinking they might have a point.
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winterlotus90
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« Reply #747 on: Dec 03, 2014 02:38 am »

All her enemies have been spouting that nonsense, which is why she hallucinates it. After getting nearly killed by three different enemies trying to convince you that you have no purpose, you're going to start thinking they might have a point.

Do you really think in that moment though, that she was thinking "gee, they might have a point?" I don't know.. because when Toph told her "the world doesn't need you" Korra totally disregarded it. Anyway, so you're saying basically that Korra hasn't always had that fear? And that it's not an active fear holding her back? She just hallucinated those things because that's what her enemies kept telling her? I guess that makes sense.

That's basically what I told my friend, was that I think the point of the hallucinations was just Korra's psyche making the connection between all of her past enemies which is that they wanted her gone. Not that she always had that fear. Like, Korra finally saw the trend taking place from season to season and I think that's what the hallucinations were a culmination of. Like I don't think she was dealing with that though while she was recovering. Because she never told Katara or anyone that she fears the world doesn't need her. She wanted to jump back to her old self right away and she knew the avatar was important to helping the Earth Kingdom rebuild. Like.. I guess the hallucinations weren't anything new, right? Like it was just her mind replaying things her enemies from the past have told her and weren't a reflection of a deeper, subconscious fear, right?


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BlackPanther1012
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« Reply #748 on: Dec 03, 2014 10:02 am »

The Equalists, Unalaq and the Red Lotus weren't the only ones telling Korra that "you're irrelevant" "you're too weak" and "you're useless."

Remember, Tenzin has been re-iterating that in the nicest ways possible on several different occasions. And then there was Lin Beifong, Tarrlok, the Earth Queen, her parents (indirectly), the White Lotus and Raiko. And now Toph and Kuvira are now a member of this gallery of people.

Hmm, I quite liked this finale, actually. Apart from Korra breaking free from her platinum chains (I mean, come on, I know the Avatar State's dead strong, but through force, she'd have more chance ripping her arms apart rather than the chains in that position).

She didn't break free from her chains - she ripped the chains out of the wall and used them to beat people with - and it was glorious. Besides which while this is more noir than wuxia the characters are made of iron and therefore realism must take a backseat to rule of cool.

The Avatar State gives the Avatar superhuman strength.
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Esperaholon
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« Reply #749 on: Dec 03, 2014 01:29 pm »

The Equalists, Unalaq and the Red Lotus weren't the only ones telling Korra that "you're irrelevant" "you're too weak" and "you're useless."

Remember, Tenzin has been re-iterating that in the nicest ways possible on several different occasions. And then there was Lin Beifong, Tarrlok, the Earth Queen, her parents (indirectly), the White Lotus and Raiko. And now Toph and Kuvira are now a member of this gallery of people.

No, Tenzin has been reiterating that Korra is one person - one deeply traumatized (mentally and physically) person who doesn't have to handle the entire world. She needs to stop being the anti-Kuvurk and realize that people need to take care of their own problems - kind of like they did while she was in Training.

Lin and her parents are on that same tip, because they care about her as person and also because they are adults who don't believe that shoving all their problems off on a teenager is the way the world should work. This would be especially true for Lin who knows what an Avatar has to go through thanks to Aang and who had a mother that was part of Team Avatar.

Tarrlok and the Earth Queen were playing mind games - so your point stands with them. The White Lotus doesn't think she's weak - they do think she needs to work on her spirituality which is a valid thing to say to her. Raiko is a jerk... so... yeah. Toph is a jerk... so... yeah. And Kuvira got monkeystomped when Korra flexed her Avatar muscles... so yeah.

One other thing to recall is that - nevermind I'm taking this way too seriously.
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