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Author Topic: Smoke and Shadow, Parts 1, 2 & 3- speculation thread [NO SPOILERS!]  (Read 152388 times)
Misty23
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« Reply #750 on: Aug 16, 2015 04:12 pm »

My feeling anything for Gene is mitigated by the fact that he didn't have to do anything with the canon ships. He wanted to step into that minefield, and it was only the Mike and the Bryan who prevented him from dragging Kataang into it.

If you play with fire, you're going to get Azula'd.

I think Ive warmed to him because he is making a comic about characters I actually want to read about.

But yes very true! he brought this all on himself
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« Reply #751 on: Aug 16, 2015 04:14 pm »

The fact that's he's keeping a lock on characters I want to read about is my whole beef with him. Cheesy

But I don't want to turn this into a bashing fest. I judge each story on its own merits, and I'd be thrilled if S&S turns out good.
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Misty23
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« Reply #752 on: Aug 16, 2015 04:17 pm »

I really didn't enjoy the Rift and The Promise was ok but I get why so many people disliked it. I dunno I felt like they needed to address the Fire Nation after the war which is why I am excited for this comic.

Can't really judge it until I have read it but it just sounds like it has a lot of potential especially with the whole Azula situation. Who knows though!
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Maivry
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« Reply #753 on: Aug 16, 2015 04:26 pm »

Considering that the trilogies happen at max 2 months difference and they take few weeks at most, unless they publish 4 more trilogies before getting them together, it will be right away.

I fail to see how a realistic timeline matters here (but, wait, who's to say your proposed timeline would even be realistic, considering the causes and circumstances of the breakup? Is Zuko still being a paranoid, secretive Firelord who relies on Ozai's advice?) but not in other aspects of the comics. Forgive me if you've been outspoken about other such problems in the comics, I haven't followed enough discussions to know that... But, for instance, the events of pretty much every plot involves things happening right away in a much more literal sense with equal or lesser realism to what you fear a Maiko reunion would incur. The Earth King, Zuko, and Aang all jumped to their respective positions in the Yu Dao conflict, without any particularly meaningful deliberation. Toph's students learned how to metalbend overnight after practicing uselessly because they got a little insight. Zuko was all ready to give up his right to rule when he found some "evidence" that he wasn't Ozai's son -- which, I may remind you, was mainly a dramatic cliffhanger that was overturned almost immediately. Toph's dad was completely estranged from her in the Rift, but finally saw her in a new light even though he had a really good seat for watching her in action in the show proper.

The comics abbreviate almost everything that happens. Everything has to happen right away, if they want their succinct stories to be trackable by kids, pretty much. It's not like all these things are untenable -- the metalbending students didn't make a huge leap in progress, they just got over the starting barrier. Toph's dad was overdue to see Toph as she sees herself, so it's easy enough for us to accept him changing his mind at a specific turning point.

So, with Maiko... I don't see the timeline as being something that's going to get any attention to realism, and I don't see why it necessarily needs a long time to be realistic, anyway. If Zuko's developed (he has, right? Right?) then it doesn't have to reflect badly on Mai that she accepts him again. If it takes Zuko a long time to reach that point, sure, but it's not like Mai's just waiting for a deadline. It's Zuko's progress that matters more.
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Fieryfurnace
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« Reply #754 on: Aug 16, 2015 04:49 pm »

How would them getting back together after a couple trilogies have already come and gone be "right away"? Especially since we have absolutely no reason to expect them to get back together on sight -- it'd have to take a volume or two or all three. I mean, c'mon, cliffhangers between volumes have been far worse than that.
Considering that the trilogies happen at max 2 months difference and they take few weeks at most, unless they publish 4 more trilogies before getting them together, it will be right away.

I dunno, it's been at least a year. Though the trilogies themselves take place over a short period there's obviously large gaps between, cuz Yang says we're about two years out from the series now. (And The Promise's main plot started exactly one year out.) There's the gaps, plus the three month timeskip at the end of The Rift Part 3. Though why Zuko would wait 3 months to escort his mum back to the Fire Nation when Iroh says that she was going at the beginning of The Rift Part 1, i dunno. Maybe Smoke and Shadows takes places before the timeskip?? (Or the writing is inconsistent - probs this.)
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Chinoiserie
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« Reply #755 on: Aug 16, 2015 05:09 pm »

How would them getting back together after a couple trilogies have already come and gone be "right away"? Especially since we have absolutely no reason to expect them to get back together on sight -- it'd have to take a volume or two or all three. I mean, c'mon, cliffhangers between volumes have been far worse than that.
Considering that the trilogies happen at max 2 months difference and they take few weeks at most, unless they publish 4 more trilogies before getting them together, it will be right away.

I dunno, it's been at least a year. Though the trilogies themselves take place over a short period there's obviously large gaps between, cuz Yang says we're about two years out from the series now. (And The Promise's main plot started exactly one year out.) There's the gaps, plus the three month timeskip at the end of The Rift Part 3. Though why Zuko would wait 3 months to escort his mum back to the Fire Nation when Iroh says that she was going at the beginning of The Rift Part 1, i dunno. Maybe Smoke and Shadows takes places before the timeskip?? (Or the writing is inconsistent - probs this.)

It would be great if Mai and Zuko would meant ion how long since they broke up in comic or some other even of referenced so we would get better idea about the timeline. I think that there could be a couple of months in-between each comic, since there were some conferences about Yu Dao between the Promise and the Search and then there had been election between the Search and the Rift and then the later had a 3 month time-skip- And there could be moths between the Rift and Smoke and Shadow as well. And the free-comic book stuff would fit better if everything is not happening in couple of weeks. But if Ursa was already visiting in the beginning of the Rift that comic and Smoke and Shadow could really overlap or it is a mistake. But it would be really easy mistake to notice so I do not think it is.
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Cybersun
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« Reply #756 on: Aug 16, 2015 07:26 pm »

Well whatever side you are on in regards to zuko's future relationship I think the most important relationship that needs resolving is the one between Ursa and Azula. (Plus I'm super excited see her return)
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« Reply #757 on: Aug 16, 2015 08:45 pm »

cuz Yang says we're about two years out from the series now.

When did he say that? I always thought The Promise though The Rift took place during about 6 months of each other, not a year.

 
Quote
Though why Zuko would wait 3 months to escort his mum back to the Fire Nation when Iroh says that she was going at the beginning of The Rift Part 1, i dunno. Maybe Smoke and Shadows takes places before the timeskip?? (Or the writing is inconsistent - probs this.)

I brought this up when this trilogy was first announced. I think it's just inconsistent writing. They probably didn't know they were going to go this route when they included that bit of dialogue in The Rift part 1.
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fireywaters
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« Reply #758 on: Aug 16, 2015 09:41 pm »

Also does anyone think Azula will become friends with Mai and Ty Lee by the end of this trilogy???

I think they become friends again, but probably not as close as they once were, being civil towards each other. If things go the way they should with the shipping, Mai should try to get along with Azula, because they will be family.
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Freedom153
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« Reply #759 on: Aug 16, 2015 10:08 pm »

On dates, look at Azula's age on wiki:
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Azula Azula's Age : 14 in the series
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Azula#cite_note-CBR-1 Direct source link: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=39354 Azula's Age : 15-16 in The Promise trilogy
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Azula#cite_note-Geneint-2 Direct source link: http://www.nerdist.com/2013/03/comic-book-day-join-the-search-with-gene-luen-yang/ Azula's Age 16-17 in The Search trilogy
Aang's age on wiki says that he's the same age (14-15) in both The Search and The Rift.

So time has passed - between two and three years. Perfectly reasonable for people to shift relationships around in.

One thing as far as shipping, especially Toph goes: there's only so far the comics can go answering things.

Forget minor questions like who Izumi's mother is(though if Smoke and Shadow ends with Maiko, plus already established resemblance, it's pretty certain to be Mai) - I don't think we're ever getting something "concrete" on one of the biggest questions. Who fathered Toph's second kid, or any shipping revolving around that..

Suyin Beifong was born in 126 AG, and unless the comics cover until, what, 125 AG or around there, minus ten years for possible relationship buildup, getting into Republic City/ United Republic of Nations stuff... it's unlikely we'll get to know who Suyin's father is. Especially given in TLOK Toph talks about dating someone named Kanto before Suyin's father and it not working out with Kanto, despite having Suyin's older sibling (Lin) with him.

Not to mention the comics do not seem to be aimed at that kind of crowd (who's the kids' father, more heavy duty geopolitics of founding of URN) anyways.
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Misty23
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« Reply #760 on: Aug 17, 2015 05:38 am »

I think it will be interesting to see how Zuko and Kei Lo interact with each other though Cheesy

I do too! I hope there is much interaction between those two.

The reviews make it sound like were not going to be sure whether we can trust Kei Lo or not.
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Fieryfurnace
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« Reply #761 on: Aug 17, 2015 08:39 am »

cuz Yang says we're about two years out from the series now.

When did he say that? I always thought The Promise though The Rift took place during about 6 months of each other, not a year.

It took me a while to find it, but i finally did. In a recent interview with ICv2.

Quote from Yang: "We started our story immediately after the end of the show and then we skipped a year. And from then until now it’s probably a year or two out from there. We’re about two years out from the original show. We have about 68 years of work left."


Also, while on my travels, i found confirmation that the in hindsight pointless drama with Zuko's lineage in The Search was 100% Mike and Bryan's idea. I'm not sure if everybody already knew this but eh.

Quote from Yang: "The questioning of Zuko’s lineage came from them–‏I just don’t feel like I have the authority to mess with Fire Nation bloodlines in that way, you know?"
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FireNationPhoenix
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« Reply #762 on: Aug 17, 2015 09:07 am »

I think this is going to be zuko's greatest challenge, azula is back, and will be causing damage, zuko has to deal with the stress of his mother, his little half sister getting used to everything, and of course, ikem, so i think that this will be one epic new trilogy
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Freedom153
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« Reply #763 on: Aug 17, 2015 09:59 am »


It took me a while to find it, but i finally did. In a recent interview with ICv2.

Quote from Yang: "We started our story immediately after the end of the show and then we skipped a year. And from then until now it’s probably a year or two out from there. We’re about two years out from the original show. We have about 68 years of work left."


Also, while on my travels, i found confirmation that the in hindsight pointless drama with Zuko's lineage in The Search was 100% Mike and Bryan's idea. I'm not sure if everybody already knew this but eh.

Quote from Yang: "The questioning of Zuko’s lineage came from them–‏I just don’t feel like I have the authority to mess with Fire Nation bloodlines in that way, you know?"

I didn't know that. Great... that bodes... "well" for the TLOK comics, if they were behind that malarkey, considering Mike's writing the story.
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Loopy
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« Reply #764 on: Aug 17, 2015 06:32 pm »

Oh my Koh, it's been two-three years since the cartoon?

How is Aang still shorter than everyone else?!
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Freedom153
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« Reply #765 on: Aug 17, 2015 07:19 pm »

Because marketing. If Aang shoots up a foot and matures, bam, he doesn't look like in ATLA anymore. Can't put that on the cover of a comic.

Either that, or Aang's one hell of a late bloomer.
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« Reply #766 on: Aug 17, 2015 07:43 pm »

How is Aang still shorter than everyone else?!

Um...I don't think he is. At the very least, he's taller then Katara now.

I would link a screenshot but I don't know how. As in the show, the heights are sometimes a little inconsistent but he seems to be taller then her more often then not in the panels. At least when they kiss she has to lean up a little instead of down like in the show (yes, as a Kataanger I notice stuff like that Embarrassed).

Sokka and Zuko are still taller then him though.
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« Reply #767 on: Aug 17, 2015 10:24 pm »

Does this mean that we'll get to see their faces gradually morph into what they look like in the "Old Friends" poster?
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fireywaters
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« Reply #768 on: Aug 18, 2015 06:15 am »

cuz Yang says we're about two years out from the series now.

When did he say that? I always thought The Promise though The Rift took place during about 6 months of each other, not a year.

It took me a while to find it, but i finally did. In a recent interview with ICv2.

Quote from Yang: "We started our story immediately after the end of the show and then we skipped a year. And from then until now it’s probably a year or two out from there. We’re about two years out from the original show. We have about 68 years of work left."


Also, while on my travels, i found confirmation that the in hindsight pointless drama with Zuko's lineage in The Search was 100% Mike and Bryan's idea. I'm not sure if everybody already knew this but eh.

Quote from Yang: "The questioning of Zuko’s lineage came from them–‏I just don’t feel like I have the authority to mess with Fire Nation bloodlines in that way, you know?"

That means whoever Zuko ends up with and who Izumi's mother is, will all be on Mike and Bryan.
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mmoon24
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« Reply #769 on: Aug 18, 2015 09:26 am »

If Suki ended up being Izumi's baby momma, it would be very interesting to see how they spin Izumi's physical looks that callback to Mai (and even personality from the brief bits we got of her).
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #770 on: Aug 18, 2015 12:21 pm »

If Suki ended up being Izumi's baby momma, it would be very interesting to see how they spin Izumi's physical looks that callback to Mai (and even personality from the brief bits we got of her).

Nah, no way that Izuki's mother is Suki. A redhead Fire Lord is not something the Bryke would have missed.
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Misty23
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« Reply #771 on: Aug 18, 2015 01:16 pm »

If Suki ended up being Izumi's baby momma, it would be very interesting to see how they spin Izumi's physical looks that callback to Mai (and even personality from the brief bits we got of her).

Either Izumi's mother is Mai or someone we have not met before. Izumi and Suki look nothing alike lol
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Tamerlan Pahlavi
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« Reply #772 on: Aug 18, 2015 02:28 pm »

If Suki ended up being Izumi's baby momma, it would be very interesting to see how they spin Izumi's physical looks that callback to Mai (and even personality from the brief bits we got of her).

It's possible that Mai is Zuko's distant cousin. Royals/nobles in pretty much any society ever liked keeping to themselves. Thus, Izumi might look a bit like Mai without being directly related to her. Also, I always thought she resembled Ursa the most.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #773 on: Aug 18, 2015 03:37 pm »

Children don't have to be an exact mix of their parents and they mostly aren't. Izumi have features of Zuko's line of the family. Also, I never felt like Izumi looked anything remotely similar to Mai.
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mmoon24
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« Reply #774 on: Aug 18, 2015 04:40 pm »

Just realized Nick's official family tree picture doesn't have Zuko linked to Mai.

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