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Author Topic: A Water Tribe Kyoshi?  (Read 10208 times)
HappyPandaGamer
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« on: Oct 01, 2013 07:06 pm »

From what we know about Kyoshi's method of being the avatar and what Korra did in the most recent episode, I cans simply say that Korra is basically a water tribe version of Kyoshi. The Avatar is supposed to be neutral, and not take any sides; the way Korra did it seemed to be violent, and how she got the information out of the judge. Also Korra's diplomatic skills needs a ton of work.

I know that Korra is supposed to be everything that Aang wasn't, but seeing an older teen going on Kyoshi's path right after we had Aang who tired to have a voice of reason and avoid fighting is well a bit scary.

« Last Edit: Oct 01, 2013 08:05 pm by HappyPandaGamer » Logged

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Clowngoon
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 01, 2013 08:01 pm »

^Hey we've seen an Air Nomad Kyoshi (Yangchen) and the Fire Nation Avatar before her may have been like Kyoshi as well. But honestly, sometimes you have to threaten someone with violence to get him/her to talk because some people are just that stubborn.
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Lavanya Six
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 01, 2013 09:21 pm »

From what we know about Kyoshi's method of being the avatar and what Korra did in the most recent episode, I cans simply say that Korra is basically a water tribe version of Kyoshi. The Avatar is supposed to be neutral, and not take any sides; the way Korra did it seemed to be violent, and how she got the information out of the judge. Also Korra's diplomatic skills needs a ton of work.

Kyoshi wasn't violent.

That's just fanon, from one particular fan comic. What we actually saw of Kyoshi in the series wasn't of a "bathe in their blood" mentality. Far from it. She acted in a fairly tactical manner against her enemies, and was often merciful.

Kyoshi didn't slaughter Chin's armies. She split her home village off the mainland, rather than force a battle. Chin did in the process, but Kyoshi was up front about being willing to kill him if it came to that. She even allowed Chin's lieutenants to form a rival village on the mainland, just across the straight from Kyoshi Island, where they were free to glorify Chin and rail against the evils of the Avatar.

When the Earth King called her in after the peasants of Ba Sing Se revolted, she didn't wade into the peasants (as the king wanted) or kill the king (as the peasants apparently wanted). She struck a compromise where the king maintained power, the peasants got to check his power in the Dai Li, and the cultural artifacts of the city itself were safeguard. Sure, the Dai Li went evil in time, but Kyoshi's intentions at the start were for a political compromise between all parties.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 01, 2013 10:54 pm »

Korra's a little better than Kyoshi. Kyoshi allowed the war to spread far and wide until it hit HER area and then only split it from the mainland. If Chin didn't fall into the ocean and die, then the entire continent (except Ba Sing Se) would've been under the rule of a horrible tyrant (we did see him possibly kill a man that had already surrendered and giving offerings).
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Loopy
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 02, 2013 07:22 pm »

It's worth considering, though, what kind of rule the entire continent (except Ba Sing Se) was under before Chin conquered it. Kyoshi may not have been talking about why Chin had to die when she described him, but simply shattering some apologist illusions that his modern-day fans were holding onto.
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jonms
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 03, 2013 08:04 am »

I more wonder what kyoshi looks like without the make up
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 03, 2013 09:04 am »

^I think I have an idea. She's already hot with it.
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Uzuko
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:01 am »

I can imagine that Kyoshi was probably a lot like Lin, strict and by the book. It probably took a lot to shake her. As for Kyoshi and the Water Tribe, she probably had some kind of connection with the Southern Water Tribe. The clothes of the residence of Kyoshi looked like Water Tribe clothes more, and there must have been a reason why Kyoshi sent the island south and toward the cold.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:02 am »

Okay, fanon is one thing. It's fun, cool and makes fun AU comics. But right now you're seriously confusing fanon and canon. Kyoshi was the exact opposite of Korra. She was an extreme Aang. She let Chin the conqueror lead his conquest, murder and take over towns and cities. She didn't do ANYTHING at all until he came to her area. Then what did she do? She simply disconnected it from the mainland turning it into an island. Sure, Chin died while she was doing that but if he stepped back and continued conquering the mainland, I seriously doubt she would do anything to stop him. As long as her hometown was safe, she didn't give a crap. Calling her "blood thirsty" is giving her way too much credit because that would imply she did something.
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Uzuko
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:20 am »

She let Chin the conqueror lead his conquest, murder and take over towns and cities. She didn't do ANYTHING at all until he came to her area.

The problem is we aren't sure that Kyoshi was an extreme doormat either. We know that Chin conquered the Earth Kingdom, but this occurrence may have happened while Kyoshi was training to be the Avatar and her handlers decided it wouldn't be wise to send an unrealized avatar into a fight. Without any background or situational information it is hard to say anything concrete about the past Avatars. I like to imagine that Kyoshi had a connection with the Southern Water Tribe, but the Kyoshi island resident most likely adapted their clothing style because of living and trading with them for centuries.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:24 am »

It must be noted though that Chin's conquest spree didn't threaten the balance between the Four Nations so Kyoshi wasn't obliged to interfere in any ways. She wasn't an EK nationalist at all (unlike Korra who is clearly pro-SWT), so she could lay back and watch and maybe do Avatary stuff somewhere else. 
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:27 am »

The problem is we aren't sure that Kyoshi was an extreme doormat either. We know that Chin conquered the Earth Kingdom, but this occurrence may have happened while Kyoshi was training to be the Avatar and her handlers decided it wouldn't be wise to send an unrealized avatar into a fight. Without any background or situational information it is hard to say anything concrete about the past Avatars. I like to imagine that Kyoshi had a connection with the Southern Water Tribe, but the Kyoshi island resident most likely adapted their clothing style because of living and trading with them for centuries.

You think that an unrealised Avatar could disconnect a huge piece of land from mainland? I honestly doubt that. Even if, I'm pretty sure Earthbender of that level could wipe an army with ease. If anything they could make the ground crack under their feet. So that point is invalid.
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Ikkin
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:28 am »

Okay, fanon is one thing. It's fun, cool and makes fun AU comics. But right now you're seriously confusing fanon and canon. Kyoshi was the exact opposite of Korra. She was an extreme Aang. She let Chin the conqueror lead his conquest, murder and take over towns and cities. She didn't do ANYTHING at all until he came to her area. Then what did she do? She simply disconnected it from the mainland turning it into an island. Sure, Chin died while she was doing that but if he stepped back and continued conquering the mainland, I seriously doubt she would do anything to stop him. As long as her hometown was safe, she didn't give a crap. Calling her "blood thirsty" is giving her way too much credit because that would imply she did something.

In Kyoshi's defense, I'm pretty sure a lot of that is the result of the writers writing themselves into a corner with the kid-oriented nature of Avatar Day.

Kyoshi's characterization in the Escape From the Spirit World shorts and in The Old Masters, while still not justifying her fanon characterization, paints her as a much more decisive individual.  I get the impressIon that Avatar Day took things way too far to justify Kyoshi's involvement in Chin's death, and Bryke would probably George Lucas that episode if they were given the chance.

(To be honest, if I could ask for any episode to be entirely remade, it'd be that one.  Let Kyoshi announce her decisIon to end Chin's reign, offer a reason for her earlier lack of involvement... and, for goodness' sake, get rid of the stupid underwear gag.  Aang and his friends' plot can stay comic relief, but Kyoshi's entire flashback is character assassinatIon compared to her portrayal everywhere else.)
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:30 am »

It may not threaten the balance between the Four Nations, but she still should've done something. The peasant revolt didn't threaten anything but the king's leadership, so why did she even intervene with something so trivial? She went to fix a problem in a city that was so far removed from many other matters, but did nothing when many were losing their lives and homes to a warmongering tyrant? I know she's a fan favorite, but she's just as bad as Roku was and possibly worse as the war went on AFTER his death.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:35 am »

The peasant revolt didn't threaten anything but the king's leadership, so why did she even intervene with something so trivial?

The rebellion did threaten the existence of the EK as it would throw the nation into anarchy. Chin was a tyrant, but at least a strong tyrant. He was a better option than the weak Earth King so Kyoshi let him conquest everything. Maybe it was at the cost of some tears and suffering but Kyoshi liked to pay that price (ref.: Dai Li) as long as it wasn't her people's tears and suffering.
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2013 11:37 am by AtoMaki » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:41 am »

Which makes her a terrible person overall, its okay for the rest of the nation to be conquered but her people should stay free? What a horrible Avatar when one thinks about it.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:46 am »

Which makes her a terrible person overall, its okay for the rest of the nation to be conquered but her people should stay free? What a horrible Avatar when one thinks about it.

Nah, just the usual self-righteous Avatar with her double standards. So far, every Avatar fell for it. Except maybe Yangchen, but we know very little about her.
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Keeper of Suki's firebending ancestry, the Kyoshi Warrior dojo, the love potion made from rainbows and sunsets and the mecha tanks.

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« Reply #17 on: Oct 03, 2013 11:55 am »

Aang and Roku didn't sit by and do nothing when they were able to do something about it. However I think the world didn't try hard enough to work for themselves and not rely on the Avatar so much. There was roughly 40 years from the first attempt at conquest until the war started. That should've been a wake up call to the Earth Kingdom and the other nations that the Fire Nation was ready for war when Sozin took an Earth Kingdom city.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 03, 2013 12:06 pm »

Aang and Roku didn't sit by and do nothing when they were able to do something about it.

No they went out and messed up everything instead. But really: Koru was like "Screw the world, I have my ego!", Kyoshi was like "Screw the world. I have my people!", Roku was like "Screw the world, I have my bromance!" and Aang was like "Screw the world, I have my beliefs!".

And Kyoshi was still the most successful of them: after ~200 years of being the Avatar, she had two major problems (solved both of them) and left no real mess behind herself (the corruption of the Dai Li was inevitable, they had some 400 years to catch Power Sickness).
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2013 12:08 pm by AtoMaki » Logged

Keeper of Suki's firebending ancestry, the Kyoshi Warrior dojo, the love potion made from rainbows and sunsets and the mecha tanks.

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Uzuko
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 03, 2013 12:41 pm »

Which makes her a terrible person overall, its okay for the rest of the nation to be conquered but her people should stay free? What a horrible Avatar when one thinks about it.

The problem is we don't know the situation behind the Chin conflict. For all we know his entire war could have taken place in the course of a year because of dumb luck, wheeling and dealing, Napoleon like charisma, or Kyoshi herself being involved in another conflict.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 03, 2013 01:40 pm »

Or she could've just been a terrible Avatar who is way too celebrated.
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Lavanya Six
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« Reply #21 on: Oct 03, 2013 04:23 pm »

Aang and Roku didn't sit by and do nothing when they were able to do something about it.

The same guy who let Sozin off with a slap on the wrist for invading another country, and managed to let him continue shaping the Fire Nation in such a way so that, twelve years after Roku's death, it was primed to launch a simultaneous worldwide genocide against one nation and attack two others? That Roku?

Say what you will about Kyoshi, but when she got her hands on an evil overlord, they weren't a problem anymore.
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jonms
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« Reply #22 on: Oct 03, 2013 07:40 pm »

Roku is responsible for the genocide of a race of people, he was worse then kyoshi, granted my favorite avatar was also in my opinion the worse
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« Reply #23 on: Oct 03, 2013 08:40 pm »

He didn't anything to ensure Sozin wouldn't try anything after his death or try to remove him from power, that was his biggest folly. However the world is to blame for letting the war continue as well. From the time Sozin first attempted to take over the world and the time the war really started, that was roughly 40 years. They had nearly 40 years to develop and become united in the event that the Fire Nation would try to take over again, but they slacked off as well.

Kyoshi didn't even really get her hands dirty, she didn't do anything until it directly affected HER and even then only created an island. If Chin moved and decided her island wasn't worth it, it seems like he would've had the entire Earth Kingdom (except Ba Sing Se, for the moment) under his tyrannical rule. At least Roku ensured that people were safe as long as he had lived.
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jonms
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« Reply #24 on: Oct 03, 2013 08:44 pm »

He should have killed Sozin, now what I wonder is what yangchen did
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