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Author Topic: The Search, Part 3 - Spoilers  (Read 77560 times)
KpKimberly
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Azula ist die wertvollste.


« Reply #475 on: Oct 27, 2013 03:13 am »

But Iroh really doesn't want her in his family. If, then why he should ignore his 14-year old niece?? Call her crazy and needs to go down (maybe even wanting her to be killed) making Zuzu hate her more and sending him to fight his sister??
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Goodfella
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« Reply #476 on: Oct 27, 2013 03:40 am »

But Iroh really doesn't want her in his family. If, then why he should ignore his 14-year old niece?? Call her crazy and needs to go down (maybe even wanting her to be killed) making Zuzu hate her more and sending him to fight his sister??

....Except a) She IS crazy, had tried arresting them, AND had no problems trying to lightning bend Zuko to death (not to mention one of her bolts hit Iroh and she was okay with that) b) He doesn't have much of a reason to interact with her onscreeen c) She DID need to go down, as shown by the finale d) Azula does a bang up job making Zuko dislike her without anyone else jumping into the fray.

As tragic as Azula's circumstances are, she was already on the edge and taking jump skips into barking nuts land even before she dive nosed on in there on top of the whole homicidal, blood-thirsty, lightning-trigger happy finger she had.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 04:54 am by Goodfella » Logged
Furudo Erika
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« Reply #477 on: Oct 27, 2013 04:39 am »

But Iroh really doesn't want her in his family. If, then why he should ignore his 14-year old niece?? Call her crazy and needs to go down (maybe even wanting her to be killed) making Zuzu hate her more and sending him to fight his sister??

Maybe because his cute, lovable and cuddly 14 year old niece is trying to kill him everytime she gets the chance?

Here we go again, Azula is the sheep, everyone else is the wolf.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 04:41 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
queen_lynxana
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« Reply #478 on: Oct 27, 2013 05:36 am »

Somebody must pay for 100 years of the war the fire nation started.  Well it sure can't be Zuko (who cares that he attacked the water tribe with Iroh and hunted the avatar for a long time)  and Lord knows we can't hold Iroh responsible (even though he had the 600 day war with Ba Sing Se that actually ended up killing his son Lu-Ten), nope they are the good guys.  Azula is bad and must be punished.    Somebody has to pay the piper.  
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 05:38 am by queen_lynxana » Logged

Goodfella
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« Reply #479 on: Oct 27, 2013 05:50 am »

Somebody must pay for 100 years of the war the fire nation started.  Well it sure can't be Zuko (who cares that he attacked the water tribe with Iroh and hunted the avatar for a long time)  and Lord knows we can't hold Iroh responsible (even though he had the 600 day war with Ba Sing Se that actually ended up killing his son Lu-Ten), nope they are the good guys.  Azula is bad and must be punished.    Somebody has to pay the piper. 

No one's saying she needs to pay for the war? People are saying she needs to face up to the things SHE'S done, which IMO, she'll never actually get to the road to sanity until she can face up to it, given how deeply tied it is to her insanity. Since, as I said earlier in this thread, it doesn't matter if anyone else reaches out to her if she can't recognize her own faults and what's she's done since right now she's in 'IT'S EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT BUT MINE' mode.
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Gundleer
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« Reply #480 on: Oct 27, 2013 05:52 am »

But Iroh really doesn't want her in his family. If, then why he should ignore his 14-year old niece?? Call her crazy and needs to go down (maybe even wanting her to be killed) making Zuzu hate her more and sending him to fight his sister??
Here we go again, Azula is the sheep, everyone else is the wolf.

Nah, Azula's a Cat. Beautiful and Graceful to look at. Intelligent, Cunning and Sadistic, Likes to play with things before killing them. Can be affectionate when she wants to be, and has a soft belly that if you try to reach and touch will result in you getting attacked!! Wink

Iroh and Azula's relationship is a difficult thing to pin down.

Azula's is straightforward, she holds little regard for him. Wether this is a reflection of Ozai's views or not I can't say, but maybe she picks up on Iroh's possible favouritism for Zuko and this clouds her judgement (Azula does seem to be driven to a degree with her jealousy towards Zuko).

Iroh does seem to hold some care towards Azula. His present is ill thought out but well meaning, he mistrusts her but is rarely openly hostile towards her. Although he fights her, he does not use lethal force or really bend at her. I will admit he wanted her stopped at Sozin's Comet but he did not mention if he wanted her dead (I think that one is up to interpretation). And he is advocating for her in The Search Part 1. He may not want her on the throne but I also get that he does not wish her any more harm. Iroh's sharpe and Its possible he may have worked out she was mentally ill quite some time ago.  

  
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 05:57 am by Gundleer » Logged

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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #481 on: Oct 27, 2013 05:57 am »

Unlike Azula, Zuko and Iroh showed the sings of honor from the very first episode. Zuko may have invaded the Water Tribe, but did he kill anyone? Or was he planning to? Intimidation =/= Murder. Did he keep his promise to not hurt anyone to Aang? If he is such a cold hearted demon, why listen to Aang. Why not just kill everyone for the sake of fun and blood?

They showed sings that they are not bad people. They showed that they don't enjoy killing or hurting others. YES, this is important. Because it's everything Azula didn't show. She took pleasure in defeating people, she took pleasure in seeing others hurt. The redemption for Iroh and Zuko was possible because they showed this sings. Because inside them, good always existed. Does Azula ever show this? And Azula's tragedy is that, IF she has a tiny piece of good inside her, she is ignoring it. Why did she force Ty-Lee to quit her life? It's really a really evil, yes evil, thing to do to a childhood friend. Ty-Lee knew well that if she didn't agree, she would hurt her. She knew, but she also cared about her at the same. But you know there is a line which Azula can't cross and because she did cross it, she got what was coming for her from Mai and Ty-Lee.

I am not saying Azula needs to be punished, executed or locked up, or murdered in sleep or whatever. And in no way, is Zuko or Iroh  responsible for what she did. If people can't see the difference between Azula, Iroh and Zuko...well idk. To you, Gaang must be a group of murderers if that's the case. Cuz, you know, they hurt people, like those poor fire nation soldiers who just want to win their war.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 06:02 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
Eire
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« Reply #482 on: Oct 27, 2013 06:51 am »

Yep, launching an attack at the city full of civilians or 600 days of siege are no way a murders an a way worse thing than showdown with opponent. You know, the commander didn't get his had dirty. You made my day.

The difference between Zuko is that this point he had survived 3 years of meddling Iroh. Who himself got his redemption at the old age, the day he suddenly realised that soldiers dying at the war aren't nameless cannon fodder- yet everyone forgives him.

 queen_lynxana - cheers, you are the second person on this board who didn't go into "He lost a son on the war he commanded, he must to be forgiven and never called out" mode.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #483 on: Oct 27, 2013 06:56 am »

Correction, Iroh never got his hands on the inner wall. But all the people who died fighting or defending Ba Sing Se are on his shoulders, yes. He is the responsible for every death that happened on that siege. Maybe this was the wake up call? Or maybe it was the death of his son? Who knows, we don't, the show didn't tell us. And did I deny his siege? I hardly mentioned Iroh in my post above. I was talking about Zuko. I only said that he, at least, has honer and doesn't enjoy others suffering. Or maybe he's hiding the inner psychopath deep inside him? Hey, it's a possibility, since this is not a mystery story and the Knox commandments can't be used.

Also I like how Azula can only be excused when she is compared to others ^_^  Guess we really like to hide everything she did by comparing and give her the "could have been worse" award.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 07:02 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
Goodfella
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« Reply #484 on: Oct 27, 2013 07:12 am »

Plus, adding onto Iroh, he HIMSELF acknowledges that he's a man with many regrets who has made many mistakes. Based on his comments about coming to Ba Sing Se to help it instead of conquer it in the finale, it wouldn't surprise me if that's one of those things he regrets. It's not a matter of him going 'OH YEAH, I DID THIS AT BA SING SE AND IT WAS AWESOME! ANYONE WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH IT IS AT FAULT!' and having people just randomly forgive him and make up sob stories about it.

Which again, is one of the biggest differences between Iroh or Zuko from Azula or even Ozai. With Zuko/Iroh, they REGRET and acknowledge their screw ups and in the case of Zuko, he had to spend most of the series trying to make up for it and still is in the comics. With Ozai, he has no regret for what he does and still seems to stick to the same philosophies even now. And Azula, enough said. Hell, she's at the point where, in her delusions, everyone is in cahoots with Ursa somehow to plague her and even before then, she only sees actions like Ty Lee and Mai turning against her as a 'betrayal' without seeing WHY. It's more than a little understandable why characters would be reluctant to trust or forgive her, especially when she's not ready to accept help.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 07:16 am by Goodfella » Logged
NoName999
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« Reply #485 on: Oct 27, 2013 09:04 am »

Huh.  It's implied during the series that Iroh doesn't view Azula as part of the Royal family, but rather as a wretched, psychotic tumor of a bastard child that needs to be surgically removed with a flaming hatchet...  I wonder if his (again, implied/supposed) treatment of Azula might have been a sort of petty, subtle form of revenge against Ozai for his treatment of Zuko...

Can I have this Chinese bootleg of A:TLA you have, please?

But Iroh really doesn't want her in his family. If, then why he should ignore his 14-year old niece?? Call her crazy and needs to go down (maybe even wanting her to be killed) making Zuzu hate her more and sending him to fight his sister??

Yeah how dare Iroh wants to put down someone who wants to flat out KILL him and her brother.

My God, it's bad enough when fans try to Draco up Zuko. Dracoing up Azula is just beyond cray.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 09:08 am by NoName999 » Logged

KpKimberly
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Azula ist die wertvollste.


« Reply #486 on: Oct 27, 2013 12:12 pm »

If he is the older one and wise, he'd never treat his OWN niece that way. No matter what happens. He didn't even talk bad about Ozai. Zuzu betrayed him. It was possible, that they would kill Iroh. He was months long in prison and was treated very bad. But, whatever, I think this is the wrong threat for that. And it wasn't my purpose to turn this into a conversation about Azula's, Zuzu's and Iroh's good/bad deeds or whatever...

The reason I started his "conversation" was, that someone disagreed that Iroh doesn't want Azula in the royal family. He doesn't want her. This is implied exactly, in the series and in the The Final Battle book.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 12:16 pm by KpKimberly » Logged

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fire nation spirit
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« Reply #487 on: Oct 27, 2013 01:09 pm »

^ that is just your interpretation. it was neither confirmed nor denied that Iroh does not want her in the family. Iroh's character is a bit inconsistent tbh, due to his conflicting and slightly hypocritical speech about siblings killing each other....yet was shown in part 1 of the Search to be concerned for Azula's well being as well.

KpKimberly, not everyone in the series is out to get Azula just for the lolz
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Loopy
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« Reply #488 on: Oct 27, 2013 02:37 pm »

Honestly, I'm shocked that Ozai may have been the better parent.

I've been taking great enjoyment from the assertions over the last couple of weeks that Princess "Did a stupid thing that put her song in danger" Ursa is a worse parent that Fire Lord "Lit his son's face on fire and then laughed about it and threw him out of the house" Ozai.

Yes, Ursa is now revealed to be a horrible person and parent, but come on, Ozai is the baddest guy on the planet.
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KpKimberly
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Azula ist die wertvollste.


« Reply #489 on: Oct 27, 2013 02:50 pm »

^ that is just your interpretation. it was neither confirmed nor denied that Iroh does not want her in the family. Iroh's character is a bit inconsistent tbh, due to his conflicting and slightly hypocritical speech about siblings killing each other....yet was shown in part 1 of the Search to be concerned for Azula's well being as well.

No it isn't. He shows that he hates her and he wants to keep her away from her brother. Just because he says maybe she needs peace it doesn't mean he is concerned.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 02:52 pm by KpKimberly » Logged

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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #490 on: Oct 27, 2013 02:52 pm »

Hate is a really strong word. Can you back it up?
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NoName999
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« Reply #491 on: Oct 27, 2013 03:01 pm »

The reason I started his "conversation" was, that someone disagreed that Iroh doesn't want Azula in the royal family. He doesn't want her. This is implied exactly, in the series and in the The Final Battle book.

Not wanting her to be Fire Lord =/= Not wanting her in the family
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Loopy
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« Reply #492 on: Oct 27, 2013 03:07 pm »

Eh, I think we're splitting hairs. If my niece tried to murder me, I probably wouldn't want her in my family, either. I don't see how it's anything noteworthy enough to argue about. But, either way, there was no direct confirmation in the cartoon.
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« Reply #493 on: Oct 27, 2013 03:10 pm »

Honestly, I'm shocked that Ozai may have been the better parent.

I've been taking great enjoyment from the assertions over the last couple of weeks that Princess "Did a stupid thing that put her song in danger" Ursa is a worse parent that Fire Lord "Lit his son's face on fire and then laughed about it and threw him out of the house" Ozai.
C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute. Having a point in action is the bare minimum I require from characters and ATM Ursa is far below it.
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« Reply #494 on: Oct 27, 2013 03:58 pm »

You know, some people on this thread must have a really twisted sense of morality if they can watch Azula try to kill Iroh and Zuko dozens of times and yet they are somehow able to twist that into Zuko and Iroh being terrible people and being unfair to Azula.

It's like some of you people forgot that Azula was the one hunting everyone down.


Here we go again, Azula is the sheep, everyone else is the wolf.

This. I couldn't agree more with this comment.

Part of me wishes that I can watch the series through the glasses that the 'Azula apologists' use. I mean, it will probably really odd cheering for the crazy psycho trying to kill people but at least I'll have the perspective.
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« Reply #495 on: Oct 27, 2013 04:04 pm »

Huh.  It's implied during the series that Iroh doesn't view Azula as part of the Royal family, but rather as a wretched, psychotic tumor of a bastard child that needs to be surgically removed with a flaming hatchet...  I wonder if his (again, implied/supposed) treatment of Azula might have been a sort of petty, subtle form of revenge against Ozai for his treatment of Zuko...


Whao. Just wait...what? I just...not really sure what to say here. What on earth makes you believe Iroh thinks that about Azula? They barely interacted. He hardly ever spoke of his feelings about her. The only times I can think of is when:

1. He was mistrustful of her during the "Avatar "State". Not really sure if you can hold that against him though. He was right after all and if anything, it shows that he is smart and knew her well enough to know that she was lying to him and Zuko.

2. In "Bitter Work" he says, she's crazy and she needs to go down. And he said that right after she almost killed him.

But where do you get Iroh seeing her as "a psychotic bastard child" and not seeing her as part of the royal family? Usually I get a little annoyed when I see twisted views of the series like this but that comment was just so odd that I actually find it kinda funny and half of me believes you were being sarcastic. I mean seriously, the two had barely any interaction outside of Azula attacking him and yet somehow from that you get that Iroh thinks badly of her? If anything its the other way around. In the Search Part 1 Iroh acts like that he wants her to get better.

I just...it pains me to see such a twisted interpretation of Iroh's character. There was never any indication that he mistreated Azula and there is no way he would be petty enough to do that just to get back at Ozai for treating Zuko badly.


Heh.  I have to be honest, I was mainly being sarcastic.  I do have the slightest inkling that Iroh may, while not outright rejecting Azula as his niece, perhaps doesn't feel comfortable associating with her.  Just a bit interesting that in the current-day timeframe of the story, he sooner refers to Ozai as his brother than he does Azula his niece.  You do present some good points on the nature of his dialogue regarding her, of course, and as dark as she did get as a person, again, I suspect it was more discomfort of association than outright banishment of her from his perceived familial inner-circle.

But on the plus side, I started up yet another firestorm.

Heh, I just wanna watch the forum burn. lol

Honestly, I'm shocked that Ozai may have been the better parent.

I've been taking great enjoyment from the assertions over the last couple of weeks that Princess "Did a stupid thing that put her song in danger" Ursa is a worse parent that Fire Lord "Lit his son's face on fire and then laughed about it and threw him out of the house" Ozai.

Yes, Ursa is now revealed to be a horrible person and parent, but come on, Ozai is the baddest guy on the planet.
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« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 04:07 pm by The_Xov » Logged

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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #496 on: Oct 27, 2013 04:19 pm »

Can someone remind me when Part 3 is coming out? I just can't wait to hear Ursa's cowardice in detail.
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« Reply #497 on: Oct 27, 2013 04:21 pm »

November 12, according to Amazon.

B&N confirms.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #498 on: Oct 27, 2013 04:22 pm »

Ahhh Novembeeer? For some unknown reason I thought it was definitely coming out this month. Ehh
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Random_Stranger
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« Reply #499 on: Oct 27, 2013 04:23 pm »

At this point I don't think it should matter who did what to whom anymore. what matters is that people have suffered.

It's no longer relevant. If there is to by hope of a happy ending to this tragedy, that is the FN Royal Family; then it must come together and everyone must support one another or else this cycle and anger and bitterness will continue.

Edit:I admit my opinion was influenced by this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39nvDbbrsmI

no not saying this an exact match, just undertstand the general message.
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 04:30 pm by Random_Stranger » Logged
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