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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 26 (24.8%)
9 - 24 (22.9%)
8 - 36 (34.3%)
7 - 11 (10.5%)
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Author Topic: [202] The Southern Lights  (Read 41766 times)
Akim
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« Reply #400 on: Sep 17, 2013 02:59 am »

Agreed with this. I doubt Tenzin is all that responsible for Korra being locked up down in the SWT, and that it was mostly her father's work. I could see Katara protesting it, but Tenzin went along with Tonraq mostly because it was his father's soul and legacy they were talking about and also wanted her safe as possible. I seriously doubt that Tenzin was the one to propose the idea of isolating Korra and it was entirely about Tonraq keeping her close and maybe away from Unaloq, who I think just about insisted on being the one to train her in waterbending.

I dunno. During the part where Korra "fires" Tenzin, one of the main reasons she gives is that she was kept locked up. If Tenzin had little/nothing to do with that, then why did he not say so. Why did he not defend himself from Korras accusation, when doing so might (and probably would) have changed her mind about no longer wanting to to train with Tenzin. He even acknowledges the fact that Korra is angry, while Tenzin who was not involved would surely have pointed out that she is being unfairly angry at him. I would say that the fact that Tenzin does not deny her accusations about Tenzin keeping her locked up is basically an admission from Tenzin that he was as responsible as anyone else.

Whats more, when Korra learns the truth, Tonraq tries to defend himself by claiming that "We all did what we thought was best for you.". Tenzin was sitting close enough to hear it, and he does not jump up and say "I had nothing to do with that", further making it clear that Tenzin was just as responsible for keeping Korra locked up as everyone else.

I don't really know whether or not Korra has suffered any permanent psychological damage from her isolation or not, but I atleast got the vibe that her childhood was not a happy one. Korra herself clearly hates the fact that she was kept imprisoned, and wishes it had not happened. In another message, there was discussion about Tenzin and his siblings, and I pointed out that it did not matter if Bumi and Kya thought their "bullying" of Tenzin was harmless. The only thing that mattered is whether Tenzin was hurt by it. Same applies here. Korra repeatedly points to her confinement as something that has hurt her, both in these episodes and last season too. Add to the fact that she has repeatedly made that clear, and no one has really cared much, and my sympathy for Tenzin, Tonraq and the OWL is not all that high. Add in the fact that Tenzin, Tonraq and the OWL actually openly deceived her by blaming Aang for everything, rather than having the courage to admit that they were the ones who ordered it all, and I just don't see why people think Korra should not have the right to be angry.

I figure Tenzin and Korra will no doubt reconciliate in later episodes, but I will say that I will be truly disappointed if that reconciliation is going to only be Korra apologizing to Tenzin. I want Tenzin to also acknowledge that he too made mistakes and apologize to Korra for lying and for keeping her locked up and preventing her from having the same life experiences that every other avatar has had (including Tenzins own father, Aang). If Korra goes groveling for Tenzin for help, and if the show portrays Tenzin as somekind of saint that did nothing wrong, then I will be upset.

Quote
Plus her father lied about his entire past with her, so is say she's rightfully pissed at her father, but she's going to the wrong person, and that person is a manipulative man who tells Korra everything she wants to hear and none of the negatives to where he can easily manipulate her.

Yeah, I kinda feel same here as with Tenzin. I want Korra and her father to make peace, but I don't want Tonraq to be shown to be 100% right and Korra 100% wrong. I would like it if the show did acknowledge that the Tonraq messed up big with Korra, and I want him to realise that and also apologize.

As for Unalaq, its extremely likely that he is a villain and that Korra should not trust her. But can you truly blame her? Unalaq was the one who told her the truth about who was truly responsible for her isolation, while Tonraq could only spout empty platitudes like "it was the best for you". Maybe if Korra was more worldly, and had actually traveled all over the world and met people from all cultures and so on, she would not so easily fall into Unalaqs trap. For that matter, if Tenzin for example had been honest from the start, Korra would likely have wanted him to come with them to the trip to the southern portal, which might have changed things.

Basically, I feel that while Korra is certainly not acting at her best, I don't really feel that Tenzin or Tonraq have any right to be upset about it, since their actions have been just as bad in my eyes. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If Tenzin had been a better man, Korra would almost certainly have sided with him over Unalaq
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #401 on: Sep 17, 2013 05:22 am »

I just noticed something new. Whenever the spirits appear, one of them always pins Korra so that it can look at her face. It happened on every attack. As if they are "trying" to tell her something. Both times the spirit was attacked by Mako and Unaloq, who "calmed" it down. So, this further strengthens my theory :

Unaloq has something in mind (this one is obvious ) and Spirits are aware of it. They attack all the ships because they know Unaloq is coming to the south because of the festival. They take out every ship that could possibly be him. It's a risk they would take for the "greater good". Unaloq says that the reason spirits are attacking is because Tonraq is there, nice cover for him huh? Tonraq and the rest of the village was fine before he arrived. Anyway, Unaloq uses the spirit attacks as his advantage, gets Korra, sweet talks her and turns her into a puppet for the time being. Spirits try to warn Korra at first but later they try to "STOP" her entirely. Before she opens the portal, many spirits tried to make her stop moving. Also they attacked the engine precisely? Why? Maybe they thought that would make Korra and the group leave? Anyway they fail, Unaloq gets what he wants and Korra realizes it at the end.

What is Unaloq after? I have no idea.

PS :  I might be overthinking things and preparing myself for disappointment...XD
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Lavanya Six
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« Reply #402 on: Sep 17, 2013 06:02 am »

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SMBH
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« Reply #403 on: Sep 17, 2013 04:39 pm »

2265 HD screenshots (courtesy of plushu):

http://korra.avatarspirit.net/screenshots.php?quality=hd&num=202
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Avatar Epsilon
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« Reply #404 on: Sep 17, 2013 04:40 pm »



Yeah, I kinda feel same here as with Tenzin. I want Korra and her father to make peace, but I don't want Tonraq to be shown to be 100% right and Korra 100% wrong. I would like it if the show did acknowledge that the Tonraq messed up big with Korra, and I want him to realise that and also apologize.
 

I don't think you have to worry about that happening. I'm sure it will go both ways. In A Leaf in the Wind Korra and Tenzin both apologized to each other and admitted they both made mistakes. I'm expecting something similar to happen here as well with Tonraq and Korra. Same for the argument between Korra and Tenzin.
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Rava
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« Reply #405 on: Sep 17, 2013 05:41 pm »

What bugs me is that Korra just trusts him blindly becuase she's mad at her father and Tenzin. If the spirits at the South were that unbalanced, wouldn't have Aang have fixed it? He probably left that 'portal' alone for a reason. At the very least Korra should have talked to Katara, the previous avatar's wife, and learned a little more.

Well, we know from one of the trailers that Korra gets back to Tenzin some time in book 2....

I just hope the starts to realize that how Tenzin taught her, and what he tried to teach her was not about making her miserable, but about the needs of any Avatars, and that includes her...

Running after a man she knew, but only recently got so much new info from while abandoning her own father and the teacher who always tried to help her...

I'm interested in seeing Katara's reaction to the southern lights.

I hope this will we shown... Well... just a few days till we get the next chapter...

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« Reply #406 on: Sep 17, 2013 06:35 pm »

The ending was pulled off beautifully, and the animation is spectacular. So far, I'm VERY satisfied with the way Book 2 is going.
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Twilight
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« Reply #407 on: Sep 18, 2013 12:01 am »

Book 2 is a huge improvement. The pacing, writing, organization, and interest; everything is fascinating. Excellent work. Similar to ATLA, where it's book 2 also had a noticeable jump in quality. Everything was more connected and of course less exposition.

Mako is much less of a jerk. He's tolerable.

But Korra, my goodness. I couldn't hate a character more.
Rude, selfish, arrogant, short tempered, petty, willfully ignorant, and obnoxious. Just all bad and never enough redeeming qualities to make up for it.
The worst of all, she learned absolutely nothing. In fact, she got worse.
No, deary, you didn't beat Amon; that was pure luck.
As much as I enjoy watching her crash, burn, and receive her comeuppance, it's pointless; she's God Mode Sue or Anti Sue. Whatever, a Sue. A terrible Sue. Just a terrible person.

You are supposed to hate her, right? This can't be unintentional. Not with all these brilliantly realistic, likeable, and flawed characters all around. Literally anyone else is more likeable. Everyone else. Everyone. Else.
This is no mistake.

I wish Jinora (or a character like her) was the Avatar. Pensive, quieter, a bookworm, patient, and intellectual; these qualities are just different enough from Aang yet she has kindness, humility, curiousity, and respect in common with him. All of which Korra lack, and all of which show why you do not want "the opposite of Aang"; different is good, but as we are shown, the complete opposite is a wreckless bully.
At least Jinora's getting more focus. What with the B plot and all.
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The Mug Mugger
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« Reply #408 on: Sep 18, 2013 12:10 am »

Yeah I think the writers want us to hate Korra so we can see she needs a lot of growing up to do and we can be happy once she finally does.
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Twilight
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« Reply #409 on: Sep 18, 2013 12:16 am »

Kind of like book 1 Zuko? He was an entertaining character because you loved to hate him, was identified as a villain, and treated as such. And when his backstory was fleshed out, you felt sympathy and his transformation was believable. It was well done and satisfying.

The Gaang in book 1 also had a lot of growing up to do, but we never had to hate them to make that apparent.

For me, Korra is not enjoyable on any level and she's past the point of no return. There is literally nothing this character can do that can make me like her (without completely obliterating who she is).
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« Reply #410 on: Sep 18, 2013 12:36 am »

There is literally nothing this character can do that can make me like her (without completely obliterating who she is).

Never say never.Wink

Still got nearly 3 seasons left.

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SessKo
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« Reply #411 on: Sep 18, 2013 12:59 am »

Mako is much less of a jerk. He's tolerable.

I actually don't really like Mako's shift in characterization, it doesn't feel natural. Then again I haven't seen season one in a while, maybe all the Mako haters made me forget his actual characterization in the series.
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« Reply #412 on: Sep 18, 2013 01:04 am »

^ I think you'll find that he isn't the jerky emo that the haters make him out to be. I just finished re-watching the first season two weeks ago and he didn't come across as that bad of a guy.

Therefore, I think the shift in characterization is not as jarring as you said it was for you. It's a little odd, but not to a distracting level.
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« Reply #413 on: Sep 18, 2013 01:45 am »

Mako is much less of a jerk. He's tolerable.

I actually don't really like Mako's shift in characterization, it doesn't feel natural.

Also, his jerkiness wasn't the problem. Hell, I liked him when he was at his jerkiest!
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« Reply #414 on: Sep 18, 2013 01:55 am »

^ Me too!

There must have been a significant time gap between seasons, since people are settling into new jobs etc. so it does make sense for their relationship to have progressed and become more comfortable as a couple, but it's just a bit jarring for the viewer. I guess, I'm just not accustomed to boyfriend Mako.
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« Reply #415 on: Sep 18, 2013 02:01 am »

Well it did say that 6 months have past so...yeah, there was a time jump.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #416 on: Sep 18, 2013 02:47 am »

Okay. I know I said I didn't want to get into this discussion but I'll try to defend Korra.

So, the episodes opens with Korra being a child and using Avatar State to win a race...  What's the problem with this? She's just playing around with the kids and is having fun. Tenzin arrives and gives her a lecture, which is legit and Korra replies with "It's the Avatar state and I'm the Avatar, who appropriates it more than me?" Arrogance? No, Korra is trying to joke it up. She doesn't yell at Tenzin with "I'm the Avatar, you gotta deal with it." And the reason she is upset of having "more attention" is because nobody trusts her with anything. There has to be always someone who has to make sure she is doing everything right. That pisses her off, if she can't be trusted once than how will she begin being "Mature". She acts like a brat because that's the treatment she's getting. She wants to grow up from that point.

Then we have that conversation with Mako on the boat. Was she being a b*itch here? Well, I didn't see it. She left before the argument even started. Then she talks with Unaloq, who happens to be his uncle? Hey, if you can't trust your family members, who can you really trust in life. Unaloq talks to her about a subject she hasn't explored. She wanted to get spiritual but it didn't work with Tenzin, maybe she needs a different approach. I'm sure she thought it like that. She wasn't a bit disrespectful or rude in that scene. Then, in the hall, she is told that every Avatar traveled the world before her yet she was locked up under Tenzin's and Tonraqs orders ( Which she thought was Aang's. She was lied to, why did they lie to her? ). I'm sorry, why can't she get a bit mad here? She has every right to! And she doesn't yell "I'm the Avatar, you gotta deal with it" here either, she says it nice and calm "Who I train with is not your decision dad." Did Roku's parents decide his mentors? No. He was sent to fire sages and he traveled the world, like every Avatar. Then we have the fight scene, Unaloq displays a new technique and she was impressed with it. Tenzin and Tonraq still say stuff without asking what she thinks. What? 17 year olds don't have opinions now? We aren't dumb. She says it reasonably that "This is as far as she goes with Tenzin". Not "Get the hell out, you geezer, you suck." Yes I felt sad for Tenzin but no way did I think that Korra was a b*tch here. She even feels guilty in last seconds - "Did I make the right choice?" This question wasn't directed to Mako, it was directed to her heart. She felt guilty and asked herself this. Cut her some slack and stop pointing out all the bad traits of this character.

On to Episode 2. Talking, talking, talking. She trusts her Uncle and you know what, I would have done the same too. How can I not trust my uncle? Yes, Unaloq was up to something but how could Korra expect that? Tonraq still doesn't trust Korra with anything but he's more worried about her being with Unaloq. Okay, that is reasonable and Tonraq is right. But Korra can't see this,  the only picture she gets is "Her father doesn't even trust her to go with a trip with her uncle alone". She's hurt but it's not Tonraqs fault that she trusts Unaloq. That was her mistake and she should have listened to her dad. She wasn't being rude, just upset - "Dad come if you want, but don't get in the way of my training." They took off, things are fine for a while and then she hears the story of how her Father was banished. ...Hm, banishment of a member from the royal family. If this isn't a serious deal, I don't know what is. And she never knew. She wasn't mad at her dad for being banished, she was mad that he didn't tell her about this sooner. And I would have been too. And now she gets pissed. Very pissed. Makes Tonraq leave and talks to Mako. That conversation really brought out this bad side of her. But at the end of the episode, Unaloq trusts her to do something ALONE, she's happy. Someone believes in her and you know what? She doesn't go into the forest with "Come on, portal. I'm gonna kick your dirty butt." She walks there, doesn't rush in and has everything under control. And she opens the portal. Everything is looking good, jokes, beautiful scenary. And then we get to the ending. Did you look at the face she had? it clearly read "What...have I done."
I wasn't mad at her, I felt sorry for her that she was tricked.

And one more thing, apparently it's okay when Aang gets jerky (The Desert) and spats on Katara, Toph. We don't even see him apologize to them. Hah, but when Korra does something it's the end of the world.
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Mr Grieves
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« Reply #417 on: Sep 18, 2013 02:56 am »

And one more thing, apparently it's okay when Aang gets jerky (The desert) and spats on Katara, Toph. We don't even see him apologize to them. Hah, but when Korra does something it's the end of the world.

Its not about being a jerk though, its about quality of writing. The Desert is totally understandable from a character perspective and climaxes in one of the series' best character interactions. And we do get resolution, after the birth of Hope, and there's a feeling that everyone has developed as characters.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #418 on: Sep 18, 2013 02:58 am »

Oh don't get me wrong, I love that Episode and it's one of my favorites. I also enjoy the jerky Aang a lot Cheesy And the "Hope" part happens in the next Episode. And so will Korra's development. We just gotta wait for the next Friday XD
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« Reply #419 on: Sep 18, 2013 03:02 am »

And the "Hope" part happens in the next Episode. And so will Korra's development.

I hope so (lolol). And for the record, I think Korra's reaction to the developments of these first two episodes was pretty well handled if you take them on their own merits.
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« Reply #420 on: Sep 18, 2013 03:48 am »

I'm going to throw in my two cents here on this Korra debate.

I can understand where her dad and Tenzin are coming from.  Any good parent will want to protect their child.  But imagine your child is the most powerful being on the planet?  Her predessor was hunted most of his childhood.  If I was that parent, I'd be mortified.  It's a parent's right to make certain choices for their child until they come of age, even if they are choices that the child disagrees with, because more often than not the parent is doing it for good reasons & have more foresight.

That's the case here.  I don't see this as maliciously as others here see it.  I've seen people accuse Korra's father and Tenzin of controlling her, just like Korra did.  But her reaction was shown to be a typical stereotypical over-reaction that teenagers often have.  I think the reality was everything that was done was to protect her.  She acts like they actively sought to hurt her and I find that to be very immature of her.

Korra's many flaws are by design.  She is supposed to be immature.  She is supposed to be imperfect.  Because if she knew everything and acted like an Avatar really was supposed to, then there would be no point in watching her.  She's still a long way from being a fully realized Avatar.  Personally, I'm dying to see her grow and mature, to connect to her spirituality.  But because it is going to be a long process, this ultimately kind of puts me off in favor of characters on the show I think are more appealing.  I know ultimately one day I will like Korra a lot more, but until that time I'm trying to patiently wait for her.

Yes, like others here, I am frustrated to see how long it has taken for her to grow.  There are times where her arrogance does irk me, mainly because I find that type of personality trait offensive in real life people, to watch the Avatar act that way is disappointing. She over-reacts a lot.  BUT I know with time she will learn humility.

I can see why she was mad about being sheltered, but I think people here are exaggerating exactly how bad she had it.  I don't recall the show ever showing she didn't have friends as a child.  Yes she was sheltered, but that didn't mean she was alone and unloved.  Regarding the lying, yes she should have been told earlier, I 100% agree.  But if Tonraq and Korra's mother made this decision, is it really Tenzin's or Katara's right to tell Korra? 

And to be fair to Korra's parents, when Korra decided to leave for Republic City, her parents weren't tying her down and ratting her out to the OWL.  They let her go!  That was her ultimate act of rebellion on the show and they both supported her in her decision.  That doesn't sound like control freaks to me.

One thing I really hated seeing was how Korra lashed out at Tenzin. She was snippy with him from the get go, which made me sad considering how close they were last season.  In all honesty, I think the decisions to protect her was something that Korra's parents decided for her as a child and Tenzin and the Order followed their wishes.   

In fact, to be fair she had it better than Aang did.  She had it better than Mako or Bolin.  That's why it's hard for me to feel pity for her because I don't think she sees how much the people around her have fought to keep her safe.  Her parents.  The Order of the White Lotus.  Her tribe.  There have been sacrifices made by people in her life because they love her and she does little to acknowledge that.
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« Reply #421 on: Sep 18, 2013 05:09 am »

I think people are also getting bored of waiting. In the first episode of Book 1, we see Korra screwing up, learning a lesson, and apologising. And that’s fine; teenagers should make mistakes and learn from them. And then in the next episode, she does it again. And again. And every time she ‘learns’ and apologises, but she never really learns, because she keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Is what she does in the first episodes of Book 2 really different from how she acted in the very beginning? No! She’s still immature, brash, self-entitled and guillable. If you compare the two first episodes, how has she changed? It’s been 12 episodes. How did she grow?

I think that’s why many people are getting annoyed with her, because it seems they are repeating the same pattern over and over and yet nothing really changes. We’d love to see Korra grow, really, but at this point, it just feels like it’s taking too long.
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« Reply #422 on: Sep 18, 2013 05:22 am »

^I agree with this.

I mean, as much as I can understand why Korra's being the way she is, the fact it feels like it's just a repeat is what's frustrating. Changes might begin and stick next episode (I doubt it'd be that easy though) but it doesn't change how frustrating it is to watch at the moment since we don't have the guarantee of knowing when she's going to learn.
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« Reply #423 on: Sep 18, 2013 05:27 am »

When we got our final trailer, I was actually thinking "Wow, she looks so mature in these shots". So, we'll get there. It's not like Book 2 is gonna have 20 episodes. She'll probably go back to Tenzin after the Civil Wars. Can't wait for Civil Wars and her mature self Cheesy
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« Reply #424 on: Sep 18, 2013 07:32 am »

I'm going to throw in my two cents here on this Korra debate.

I can understand where her dad and Tenzin are coming from.  Any good parent will want to protect their child.  But imagine your child is the most powerful being on the planet?  Her predessor was hunted most of his childhood.  If I was that parent, I'd be mortified.  It's a parent's right to make certain choices for their child until they come of age, even if they are choices that the child disagrees with, because more often than not the parent is doing it for good reasons & have more foresight.

That's the case here.  I don't see this as maliciously as others here see it.  I've seen people accuse Korra's father and Tenzin of controlling her, just like Korra did.  But her reaction was shown to be a typical stereotypical over-reaction that teenagers often have.  I think the reality was everything that was done was to protect her.  She acts like they actively sought to hurt her and I find that to be very immature of her.

Believe me, I can understand overprotective parents, but I think most of Tonraq and Tenzin's faults lie outside of wanting to protect Korra.  For one thing, highly overprotective parents tend to have the benefit of being incredibly supportive and concerned with their children's happiness -- my mom always went everywhere with me when I was performing or taking big tests or whatever, and she always pushed me to interact more with other kids if I didn't have many friends.  Tonraq, on the other hand, seems to be pretty hands-off as far as everything but controlling Korra is concerned.  We don't see him and Senna showing up to see Korra take her firebending test.  We don't see them staying in the compound.  Korra doesn't get the constant appreciation and affection that kids with overprotective parents tend to get, just a whole ton of unwanted control.

For another, Tonraq and Tenzin lied to her.  They didn't respect her enough to even tell her why they were trying to protect her.  Instead, they told her that her dead predecessor wanted it that way, so they didn't have to bother explaining it to her and risking her anger.  That's a jerk thing to do, and even if it's not overtly malicious, it's definitely an attempt to get something from Korra (her continued goodwill) by trampling over her rights.  There's no benefit to Korra from the lies, just Tonraq and Tenzin.


Quote
I can see why she was mad about being sheltered, but I think people here are exaggerating exactly how bad she had it.  I don't recall the show ever showing she didn't have friends as a child.  Yes she was sheltered, but that didn't mean she was alone and unloved.  Regarding the lying, yes she should have been told earlier, I 100% agree.  But if Tonraq and Korra's mother made this decision, is it really Tenzin's or Katara's right to tell Korra?

Whether you see it in the show or not, Bryke have definitely said, in supplemental canon, that Korra didn't have any close friends.  Whether you accept that as canon or not is up to you, but that's definitely the sort of thing that underpins the way Korra's going to be written.

As for whether it's Tenzin or Katara's right to tell Korra over Tonraq's objections... I'm not sure, but they should definitely have done everything they could to convince Tonraq that starting a campaign of lies was a terrible idea.
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Korra Ramblings on Tumblr

Child of the Elements - A look at Korra's childhood with the Order of the White Lotus. (Complete)
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