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Author Topic: [DH Comics #7] The Rift, Part 1  (Read 60613 times)
Nausicaa
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« Reply #50 on: Mar 08, 2014 11:37 am »

I read the comic yesterday, and liked it for the most part:

-Gurihiru's artwork is as nice as ever. I'm glad the comics have much better artwork than most cartoon adaptations do.

-I liked seeing the continuation of the Air Acolytes storyline, and seeing more Air Nomad stuff in general.

-Storyline so far reminds me of The Mechanist and The Painted Lady. Hopefully it'll differentiate itself more in the later instalments.

-How old is Satoru supposed to be? Anyway, he seems interesting enough so far. He seems like he'll have something to do with the Satos (similar name, focus on industry, wavy black hair)

-As others have said, the sudden appearance of the two SWT girls bugged me, because they so obviously weren't around in those episodes (and presumably can't be waterbenders either). Hopefully this'll be cleared up in the next comic. I'm hoping the girls have a decent reason to be around, and aren't just there because they suddenly realised that Katara hasn't really done much in the comics so far.

-Okay, Toph annoyed me. I get that she has her reasons for disliking traditions and whatnot, and that the reader isn't supposed to agree with her... but her personality seemed too grating in this one. Like, it came across as too mean. Though, at least she seemed to make it up with Aang at the end, so hopefully they won't be arguing in the next two comics.

However, one line of their reconciliation annoyed me. "Not everybody's past is like yours, Aang. Some of us have to run away just to... just to live." Okay, I get that Toph had a bad upbringing, and her parents kept her sheltered, and that she wasn't really free until she met the Gaang. But this line bugs me because it seems like a very callous thing to say to somebody who lost almost all of their friends, surrogate family, and culture. It's not like Aang's past is without suffering.

-Speaking of Toph's family, I was surprised that she apparently hasn't seen them since she left them. I mean, she sent them that letter in The Runaway- I kind of assumed that she'd go to see them again shortly after the war ended, and that they'd concede that they were wrong about her. I feel like this comic kind of presents their relationship as being worse than it was in the show. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a very healthy relationship in the show, but Toph seemed to at least like them enough to miss them. It seemed odd that she'd send them a letter, but wouldn't even give them a brief visit. 

-I'm interested in seeing more of Yangchen. Hopefully we'll learn a little bit about her soon.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #51 on: Mar 08, 2014 12:05 pm »

The fact she did it at all is very disrespectful, of the traditions of those around her.
It wasn't a traditional instrument. If Aang brought an electric guitar, jam there and she would bend it would it be disrespectful to tradition?
« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2014 12:07 pm by HikaruIzumi » Logged

Nebulagate
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« Reply #52 on: Mar 08, 2014 12:21 pm »

I meant to type "of the traditions *and* those around her". And yes, it would be disrespectful to bend an electric guitar. It wouldn't be disrespectful to tradition, but it would be disrespectful to Aang as a person,  because she chooses someone else's good time instead of calmly removing herself from the situation.

In bending those cymbals, she ruined the good time that the acolytes were having(those who WANTED to continue the traditions even if they didn't have all the facts), when she had the option to just distance herself from the noise.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #53 on: Mar 08, 2014 12:28 pm »

^So turning around and leaving wouldn't be disrespectful? And forcing your friends to join you on a festival you know nothing about because you want to is respecting their wants and opinion? Ignoring them when they ask for clarification is respectful too? Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with everything Toph did but Aang is just as in the wrong as she is. Yet I feel like everyone here is praising Aang for reviving a festival he knows nothing about because "it's done that way" and wanting to destroy the biggest step in cooperation between nation for a tea party once a year because it is the right thing to do.
« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2014 12:30 pm by HikaruIzumi » Logged

Nebulagate
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« Reply #54 on: Mar 08, 2014 12:48 pm »

Turning and leaving would at least give the others a chance to celebrate in peace.

 Aang didn't force anyone to come. The only real way to *force* any of them to come would be to bound and gag them, and then throw them on the saddle. Which obviously didn't happen.  Katara, Sokka and Toph are perfectly capable of standing up for their own desires. Toph especially. 

Sokka was the one asking for clarification about the bowing, and Aang answered, admitting he didn't know everything.  When Toph asked a few minutes later, there was really no point. Aang had already given all the information he had, admitted to what he didn't know, and was just trying to have a good time. Asking a question again when you know there isn't any new answers is just being antagonistic. She wasn't asking questions to gain information, she was asking questions just to be hurtful.



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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #55 on: Mar 08, 2014 12:51 pm »

She wasn't asking questions to gain information, she was asking questions just to be hurtful.
This is just your assumption. I saw it as nothing else but her demanding an explanation and being angry at being expected to do something without a reason. Which is perfectly justified. What did Aang do? He completely ignored her. That wasn't supposed to be meant hurtfully? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know so I'm not going to assume, however, it definitely wasn't a nice thing to tell your friends to tag along to something that means nothing to them and then expect them to do everything you say without an explanation.
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #56 on: Mar 08, 2014 04:07 pm »

He probably just wanted them to see something they never saw in their entire life, not realizing it bore them or they don't want to do it.
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« Reply #57 on: Mar 08, 2014 04:38 pm »

She wasn't asking questions to gain information, she was asking questions just to be hurtful.
This is just your assumption. I saw it as nothing else but her demanding an explanation and being angry at being expected to do something without a reason. Which is perfectly justified. What did Aang do? He completely ignored her. That wasn't supposed to be meant hurtfully? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know so I'm not going to assume, however, it definitely wasn't a nice thing to tell your friends to tag along to something that means nothing to them and then expect them to do everything you say without an explanation.

I dunno. If some of my Muslim friends were staying with me during Christmas, I would expect them to celebrate Christmas with me. I wouldn't be able to explain every detail to them (why do we put presents under the tree? Does anybody even know?) and I wouldn't expect them to pray or anything like that (I don't do that myself), but I would tell them that the holiday is supposed to bring people together and let them have a good time, and that should be enough.

If they really don't want to be part of it, they can go to their room or take a walk, I don't mind. But I definitely wouldn't take kindly to them trashing the Christmas tree because I can't explain it well enough. What kind of baboon would even do that? How can you not find it disrespectful? It would be different if Aang was holding the festival in Toph's home (in that case, I could understand throwing him out), but to go and ruin someone else's holiday tradition just because you're not enjoying it is just plain rude.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #58 on: Mar 08, 2014 04:55 pm »

^There's a huge difference between that situation and Aang's. Like you said, you'd tell them WHAT it is about because it means a lot to you. Not the celebration itself but what it means. Aang has no idea and it NEVER mattered to him enough to learn about it. He also told (not asked) everyone to go with him. They had no idea what it included. It's not that he isn't able to express it, he simply doesn't know. He is celebrating something without a purpose, without a deeper meaning. If he just went and said that he was doing it for the sake of AN and to honour it, it would be a different thing. He insisted on celebrating Yangchen's festival yet he never truly lived it. Another thing is, Toph never destroyed anything of sentimental or traditional value. The cymbals weren't a traditional AN instrument. The girl just brought them along because she likes it. She even calls it HER cymbals. Also if you notice the AN people in the flashback, no one has any cymbals.

So, to alter your comparison to this situation, it would be as if you told your muslim friends to join you celebrating christmas, not taking no as an answer. When they come you admit that you have no idea what Christmas is about because you spent all years stuffing with cookies. You tell them to say a prayer, which they refuse to do and your friends yell at them. You politely accept their decision. Afterwards, your friend proceeds hitting with a chair close to them because she likes it. Then they pull out a leg of the chair which is easily fixable since they would just have to screw it back in. They ask you why it must be done and if you can't celebrate without it. You ignore them and mind your business. They were wrong when they temporarily destroyed your chair but can you say that you did nothing wrong and they acted unreasonably?

He probably just wanted them to see something they never saw in their entire life, not realizing it bore them or they don't want to do it.
I get it that Aang got overly excited because it hit home but Toph got overly upset because it hit home just as well. You can't blame one and praise another for the same thing. Aang didn't respect their opinion and immediately included them in something he himself doesn't know. Toph didn't respect air acolytes and their happiness and took out on them something they didn't know. Both acted selfish but I still lean towards Toph in that argument because expecting everyone to respect a festival not even Aang knows what it is is extremely childish especially when he wants to stop cooperation of nations and something that took a very long time to establish for this single reason.

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D3stiny_Sm4sher
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« Reply #59 on: Mar 08, 2014 05:23 pm »

Definitely the best read of all comics so far for me!
I have to agree with the already stated opinions – it's more focussed, the things that happen seem to make a sense and the story arch is simply more interesting than Promise or Search.

My only problem was that Toph went WAAAY too fast from "Hey Satoru" to "let's make a partnership together and make a Lin". Seriously? This felt so artificial it made even Maiko look like a legit couple. (Tongue)
I think that for Toph, there were a few factors for this rapid developement: Firstly Satoru's adoration that she clearly enjoyed, secondly the fact that teaming up with him meant to score off Aang in their argument, and thirdly the fact that he really cherished her skills and what she has accomplished by inventing metalbending. Usually when she's travelling around with the Gaang, she doesn't get that much of attention...

I also was really surprised for the first time in a long time by the ending of Part One. I really didn't expect Toph's father to be the co-owner of the factory, and it also didn't seem forced as some of the cliff-hangers of previous issues.

Yea, I mean, Aang calls it out as a "crush," which...seems about right. You can easily get a crush on someone from a single social encounter with them. Unfortunately, these comics literally can't afford to build up a true romance that we'll buy into, at least not in a single volume, especially with all the plot going on. At least in The Search it was implied that Ursa and Ikem were already very close with each other, already romantically involved, etc. I definitely think this volume was the most focused so far.

But, oh, you have Daddy issues. Yea. Woe is you. Tongue
It's not about her daddy issues, it's about the fact that Aang has no idea what the festival even is. Doing some random stuff without a reason and expecting everyone to comply is just very childish. Toph made a good point many times that he needs to explain it. What are they celebrating? Why are they celebrating it? What purpose does it serve? How can you pay respect to something when you have no idea what it is? What if they were supposed to bow down to sky or the birds on that exact place? What if they weren't supposed to sing, play on instruments and have picnic and it was simply what the kids were doing because they couldn't do the real thing like sealing a dark spirit? Aang literally does what he does for no reason simply because it was done that way before. He wanted to keep nations separated because it was that way before. Did he really learn nothing about that?

"Aang literally does what he does for no reason simply because it was done that way before. He wanted to keep nations separated because it was that way before."
Aang is doing what he's doing out of a combination of personal desire to relive his past but also because he HAS to learn and re-experience that past in order to preserve it, and rebirth the culture. He only wanted to keep the nations separate in a fit of hormonal silliness in The Promise -- a fit he quickly got over and retracted. At this point in the story, Aang is right back on track where he was when the war ended: he and Zuko want to create a new world of harmony. So while what you're saying is true, it's only true for brief parts, whereas Toph's brattiness and lack of perspective has more or less been a constant factor with her since her introduction, and so on the rare occasions she recognizes her issues, it's a big deal -- kind of like when Aang actually has those bursts of anger, it's kind of a big deal.

What I'm liking most about The Rift so far is that Aang AND Toph are both having their immaturities and their flaws exposed and pitted against each other -- but Aang's is more out of ignorance or lack of knowledge, while Toph's is more out of suppressed emotional problems. I like that neither of them are clearly "right" or "wrong" because that's more realistic a conflict, and since it's personal rather than political (like The Promise) it's a lot easier to sympathize with and buy into it. I can understand both sides of the conflict and agree with things both characters are saying.

Toph is just being more rude and self-centered about it, and Aang is being more passive. It's funny to me that you seem to comprehend Toph's support of the factory as something that represents something GREATER, yet you aren't doing the same with the festival and why Aang cares about it. It's also amusing to me that you call Aang 'childish' yet you don't seem to comprehend that Toph is also acting as such. They're both being childish. Toph's just being more of a brat about it. (doesn't make one more 'correct,' it just means Toph's personal approach is less mature)

As for her daddy issues, my point is that it actually ISN'T about her daddy, but Toph is so easily triggered by it. She acts like her daddy issues are even remotely comparable to Aang's problems. Which, quantitatively, they just aren't. It's a selfish, disrespectful attitude she carries through the entire volume -- but that's who Toph is, she just very rarely gets called out on it. And I actually really like that the comic is doing this, because it was a big point made a couple of times when Toph was with the Gaang but she never really settled it. I always figured it was because of her issues with her parents, and it seems that Gene must've felt that way, too.

Quote from: Nausicaa
However, one line of their reconciliation annoyed me. "Not everybody's past is like yours, Aang. Some of us have to run away just to... just to live." Okay, I get that Toph had a bad upbringing, and her parents kept her sheltered, and that she wasn't really free until she met the Gaang. But this line bugs me because it seems like a very callous thing to say to somebody who lost almost all of their friends, surrogate family, and culture. It's not like Aang's past is without suffering.
Nausicaa, you took the words out of my mouth. This is what I was referring to.



Toph's not had it as bad as ANYONE ELSE she's traveled with. Aang, Katara and Sokka, Zuko...they've all had it worse than her, they've all lost more than her and struggled more than her, took on more responsibility than her, and they all have had their families permanently ripped apart, often through violence/death.

"Not everyone's past is like yours?"
You're right, Toph. Not everyone has had to live through freaking genocide and then been expected to resolve the aftermath.
But Toph still, even now, gets reminded of her dad and then starts being a pissy little brat and taking it out on her friends, like it's even comparable.

It annoys me, too, in the sense that it's rude and immature of her character -- but this also means I love it, because it's also very in line with things she has previously done or said both in the comics and the cartoon. She really seems to think she has it so rough and it's a total lack of consideration or perspective toward those around her. Which is actually extremely adolescent, so it's not like it doesn't make sense. Sure, Aang is having some of that, too, but it's out of desire to relive and rebuild his entire race's culture, which is kind of bigger than just him as a single person. Toph's only motivated by her own stubbornness. BUT both of them are trying to support something that actually will serve the greater good. It just comes down to attitude and the way they're treating each other.

And sure, Hikaru, it is arguable whether Toph intends to hurt Aang's feelings, technically. It's an "assumption," just like it's YOUR "assumption" that Aang 'forced' everyone to come and wouldn't take no as an answer. Or that it's an "assumption" any time a character says something rude whether or not they meant to hurt someone. When Katara was mean to Toph at the start of things, back in Book 2, and vice versa? Did they mean to hurt each other? I surely think so -- but it's an "assumption." Assumptions are based on what characters say and how they say them.

And the way Aang phrases stuff in this volume is more out of short-sighted excitement and wary concern. The way Toph phrases stuff is just really rude and dismissive. Aang could've interrupted Toph letting Satoru stroke her ego because bigger stuff was going on, but he tried to not actually be rude about it. Toph on the other hand would just smack-talk stuff with no greater purpose in mind. 'Oh, well, if the world didn't end because your entire race was murdered and thus no one was around practice this ritual, then I guess it must not've been important. Toph Beifong doesn't bow to anyone.' Or referring to his culture as 'fuddy-duddy,' or various things like that. It's just plain rude, and if she wasn't meaning to hurt him, she wouldn't have used rude language. I actually liked that Aang passive-aggressively called her a stubborn dunderhead -- it showed that what she was saying was actually getting to him and annoying him enough where he'd bite back a bit. Obviously, a lot of this comes down to personal preference. It sounds like you must think more like Toph does -- or you seem to be giving her benefit of the doubt whereas I personally am trying to not give either of these kids that. They're both acting childish -- they ARE young teens, after all.

Both have acted inconsiderately, the difference for me is that Aang is doing so in a more polite way with a motivation that is much grander than just his own individual person, whereas Toph's is literally just, "No, I don't like it, so I'm going to have a tantrum." Toph can conveniently point to the factory as something to backup her opinion after the fact. Aang has been trying to preserve his culture's teachings since his character came out of the iceberg. I don't think either is more "right" than the other, and both characters are doing things that aren't considerate of the rest of the group, Toph's just being less mature about it and making things worse, while Aang is actively trying to resolve things and keep the peace.

This is all to say, I really loved a lot of these details in how the characters interacted, especially Toph and Aang. I love that they argue, that they apologize, that Aang's ignorance is called out, and that Toph's blunt lack of perspective is thrown at us right before her dad shows up (which is something I saw coming the second Satoru mentioned his Uncle was meeting someone, so it didn't feel out of place).

Toph acts like a brat who doesn't take others' perspectives into account, and she often has since she was introduced, but she's a pubescent kid with her own issues and sensitives like the rest -- and the fandom usually gives her a free pass on being a jerk, because she's the idol-worshipped fan-favorite. So I appreciate that Gene is actually bringing attention to this aspect of her character. Toph and Katara are my favorite characters in the series, so any time their flaws are being addressed and made as plot points, I'm inherently going to be biased toward that story arc (ex. The Runaway is probably my personal favorite episode).

In July, I'm hoping that Toph will be forced to confront her problems, and hopefully by the end of this arc either someone will call her out on her BS or she'll figure it out herself (as she did in The Promise). Likewise, I hope Aang learns something neat or intriguing about the Air Nomads and likewise realizes the error of pushing traditions just for the sake of doing so.
« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2014 05:33 pm by D3stiny_Sm4sher » Logged


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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #60 on: Mar 08, 2014 05:47 pm »

Quote
"Not everyone's past is like yours?"
You're right, Toph. Not everyone has had to live through freaking genocide and then been expected to resolve the aftermath.

I think what she means is that Aang's past is important to him. He has good memories of his people, and he knows they loved him. Toph on the other hand has a past where she was a hindrance, a shame to the family and a helpless person. Aang dealt with more pain, no question about it, but he likes to remember them, Toph doesn't. She needs to ignore it. Or that's what she believes anyway.
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NeeNee
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« Reply #61 on: Mar 08, 2014 05:57 pm »

^ That's how it looks to be too. "Not everyone's past is like yours" = Not everyone has a past they like to remember.

She's talking about his upbringing, not the genocide.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #62 on: Mar 08, 2014 06:50 pm »

What I'm liking most about The Rift so far is that Aang AND Toph are both having their immaturities and their flaws exposed and pitted against each other -- but Aang's is more out of ignorance or lack of knowledge, while Toph's is more out of suppressed emotional problems. I like that neither of them are clearly "right" or "wrong" because that's more realistic a conflict, and since it's personal rather than political (like The Promise) it's a lot easier to sympathize with and buy into it. I can understand both sides of the conflict and agree with things both characters are saying.
I agree with this but I disagree with pretty much everything else.

First of all, like those above me say, Toph is the only one in Gaang who wants to lose their past. The rest lost it against their will and it hurts them. Each of them to a different degree. But all of them remember their past and smile because it made them happy. Toph doesn't. Toph remembers her past and knows that she's better off without a home. And if you believe that being treated like a nuisance and worthless human being that can't even breathe on its own and is just a problem in someone's happy family life is not a real issue then I really don't know what to tell you. So many people commit suicide or deal with depression because of this that having someone tell me that it's a spoiled brat makes me feel like even replying to it is a waste of time but I don't want to be offensive or anything so if you feel like following is not worded in a comfortable way, I apologise since this is a topic that extremely irks me.

What Toph's parents did to her is emotional abuse. I don't care whether it was on purpose or not. They made her believe that she was nothing else but trouble and her existence was a doom to them. They treated her as something wrong as a mistake they were ashamed off. She wasn't their daughter, she was their trouble. Trouble they had to protect because to them she wasn't able to do anything on her own. Yet Toph fought and found herself in her life. Instead of accepting that, they decided to take away from her the only thing she was and she wanted to be. So she ran away. What they were doing before this is that they were completely denying her existence and life not only to the outside world but to her as well. They locked her up and didn't forget to mention how much trouble that was. From everything they've done, her existence was treated as a curse. Her only luck is that she had something to define her since early childhood.

I have a friend who worked with blind and otherwise disabled children and this was something she saw daily. Even though the kids behaved like all other kids and tried to get the best of their life their existence was denied or treated like waste of air by their parents. Majority of the kids were lead to believe by their parents that they were worth nothing but she worked in a facility where the parents left their children for temporary care-taking (which sometimes took months including holidays like Christmas) so she had to meet with it. If you never went through that and can't sympathise with it then you're better off not calling people issues like these "pissy little brats" because you're only lucky you have no idea how it feels. I know this isn't exactly what Toph went through but that's just because dumping her somewhere would hurt their name.

Like I said before, Toph is in the wrong but so is Aang and I think he's acting as childish as Toph but much more selfish. Expecting the whole factory to go because he wants to celebrate a festival without a meaning is messed up regardless what way you look at it. Regarding her being as rude as you're describing, people are different. Aang handles everything in a passive aggressive way while Toph says and does what she feels like. They can both push it sometimes and in this comic that was what they were doing. However, everything is as bad as they intend it to be. It's a comic, we can't hear the tone of their voices so a lot is left for interpretation. I see her remarks about her being pissed that he can't explain it and I say that she's right. He didn't even defend in any way he simply ignored her which is basically how she's been treated her whole life.

Aang could have explained to her that it was a stereotype festival she probably wouldn't enjoy but she wanted all of them there regardless how it would make them feel. He wanted them there because it means a lot to him not because they would want to. This is the first point where he acts selfishly and if he avoided this, everything that happened could have been avoided. I can understand why he wanted them there but he was still wrong because he was pushing his wants on others ignoring how it would make them feel. Toph was also selfish for taking it too personally and not accepting that it meant a lot to them. However, like I mentioned before, I still lean to Toph in this argument. Aang wanted to celebrate something without a reason just because it was celebrated before. He has no idea what it is or why it is celebrated. He doesn't even know who he is bowing to. I wouldn't bow to a statue if I didn't know what it represented. It was perfectly normal of him not to force her to bow. Not good, not nice, just normal. No one has any right to force their beliefs on someone.

She was in the wrong for insulting it and also for not explaining how she felt about it all but he was guilty of the very same thing. His passive aggressive behaviour was mean just as her remarks. He also handled it in the wrong way. He wanted to celebrate something he has no idea what it was. That's like drinking 10 glasses of water before going to sleep because the rest of your family does it. What he should have done since the beginning is to turn it into a new festival that's about respecting everything the old AN was. I have no idea how in the world it occurred to him to celebrate something for no reason. It wasn't about AN, it was about Yangchen. It wasn't about Yangchen because he has no idea how it connects to her. So it was basically about nothing. And clearly Yangchen didn't want him to revive it but rather show him something else because she kept leading him somewhere and her face was of worry rather than "you like totally forgot about my festival you jerk".
« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2014 06:53 pm by HikaruIzumi » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: Mar 08, 2014 06:50 pm »

I love how Aang literally did run away in order to live. Cheesy I hope that was supposed to be a joke.
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« Reply #64 on: Mar 08, 2014 07:05 pm »

I think the point is that Toph is running away from her problems, which are her parents. Toph can't spend the rest of her life resenting and avoiding her parents simply because the were overprotective of her. At the very least she has that choice to reconcile with them where unlike her friends they can't because they are either dead or just beyond redeemable.

I am quite curious to see how this father and daughter reunion will play out. Has Lao Bei Fong changed his view about his daughter or is he still the same as we last saw him? I like to believe that he has changed but since we have two parts to go through there will be conflict.

What do you guys think?
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« Reply #65 on: Mar 08, 2014 07:47 pm »

As soon as Toph pays him back that box of pure gold pieces he paid to the bounty hunters she murdered, I'm sure they'll get along fine.
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« Reply #66 on: Mar 08, 2014 08:08 pm »

I am quite curious to see how this father and daughter reunion will play out. Has Lao Bei Fong changed his view about his daughter or is he still the same as we last saw him? I like to believe that he has changed but since we have two parts to go through there will be conflict.

What do you guys think?

Personally, I think that he'd probably be kind of ashamed of what he did. We've seen that Toph has become famous for her earthbending, which may have led him to reconsider his attitude towards her. However, I suspect that there will still be some kind of issue between them- he wants her to go back to being a 'lady', or she needs money for her metalbending school but does not want to accept it if it's from him. Or Toph'll probably be wary of reuniting with her parents because she clashed with them so much before, even if they've changed.
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« Reply #67 on: Mar 08, 2014 10:48 pm »

Just read it.  Why were people so convinced that Sokka and Suki are breaking up? Clinging to false hope isn't healthy.
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« Reply #68 on: Mar 09, 2014 12:19 am »

I don't really agree with the argument that because Toph hasn't been through as much as the rest of the Gaang, her feelings don't deserve consideration. She's still pretty young and her parents brought her a lot of pain for a long time. Letting your family control you like that for a long period of time can do a lot of damage. Just look at what happened to Korra and Azula. Korra didn't believe she had an identity other than the "Avatar" for about 14 years and Azula went nuts because she didn't get the right love from the right person(s).

I don't think Toph was completely right to bend the cymbals and bluntly disrespect Yangcheng's festival but Aang shouldn't have expected Toph to follow every single tradition even though he has no explanation for it and she isn't compelled in the slightest to follow any of them. At least they recognized that and settled the dispute. Good for them.

On a side note, I'm not sure if Satoru has anything to do with the Satos because it was Asami's mother with the black wavy hair and Hiroshi grew up poor. Hiroshi could've adopted Satoru's name because he was an inspiration to Hiroshi as an industrialist who's (presumably) successful and shortened it to Sato. Something is a just a miss here and I hope the Rift explains the connection between Satoru and the Satos if it exists.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #69 on: Mar 09, 2014 12:31 am »

Satoru could also have ended up poor. We saw that his uncle didn't particularly care much for him and flatly called him incompetent and regretted not having himself or Lao be present to ensure Satoru didn't screw things up. Many things can change within the 20 years before Hiroshi's birth.
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ideae
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nnf

12174006 thathaveflownpastusandleftnothingbutascarinmemoryofitspainful@hotmail.com to+ask+of+days impact
« Reply #70 on: Mar 09, 2014 12:40 am »

The characters felt off. Toph was bratty and childish ("fuddy-duddy"), Aang was stupid and uppity, Katara did nothing and Sokka really could be made useful here when he only said stupid things and made references to keep the fandom content.
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I gave up and asked Sifu.

Maybe if this Noatak guy is real, he is the last Water avatar before Kuruk (and the unmentioned Avatar Sifu likes.)

I bet that unmentioned Avatar was Wan.
Nebulagate
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« Reply #71 on: Mar 09, 2014 01:23 am »

^There's a huge difference between that situation and Aang's. Like you said, you'd tell them WHAT it is about because it means a lot to you. Not the celebration itself but what it means. Aang has no idea and it NEVER mattered to him enough to learn about it. He also told (not asked) everyone to go with him. They had no idea what it included. It's not that he isn't able to express it, he simply doesn't know. He is celebrating something without a purpose, without a deeper meaning. If he just went and said that he was doing it for the sake of AN and to honour it, it would be a different thing. He insisted on celebrating Yangchen's festival yet he never truly lived it. Another thing is, Toph never destroyed anything of sentimental or traditional value. The cymbals weren't a traditional AN instrument. The girl just brought them along because she likes it. She even calls it HER cymbals. Also if you notice the AN people in the flashback, no one has any cymbals.

So, to alter your comparison to this situation, it would be as if you told your muslim friends to join you celebrating christmas, not taking no as an answer. When they come you admit that you have no idea what Christmas is about because you spent all years stuffing with cookies. You tell them to say a prayer, which they refuse to do and your friends yell at them. You politely accept their decision. Afterwards, your friend proceeds hitting with a chair close to them because she likes it. Then they pull out a leg of the chair which is easily fixable since they would just have to screw it back in. They ask you why it must be done and if you can't celebrate without it. You ignore them and mind your business. They were wrong when they temporarily destroyed your chair but can you say that you did nothing wrong and they acted unreasonably?

He probably just wanted them to see something they never saw in their entire life, not realizing it bore them or they don't want to do it.
I get it that Aang got overly excited because it hit home but Toph got overly upset because it hit home just as well. You can't blame one and praise another for the same thing. Aang didn't respect their opinion and immediately included them in something he himself doesn't know. Toph didn't respect air acolytes and their happiness and took out on them something they didn't know. Both acted selfish but I still lean towards Toph in that argument because expecting everyone to respect a festival not even Aang knows what it is is extremely childish especially when he wants to stop cooperation of nations and something that took a very long time to establish for this single reason.



Thinking that your friends will support an event that's important to you is not childish.  It's part of what friends do. Aang participated in a water tribe custom that was important to Sokka and Katara. Aang and Sokka joined in Toph's scams because it was fun for her, even if it lead to trouble later.  There was nothing in that festival that was morally offensive to anyone present. And again, everyone had the choice of walking away if they found it out to their liking.

You keep saying Aang has no idea what the holiday is about, but that's not true. The only thing he wasn't certain about was the statue. He explained how the holiday works, that should be enough for someone to determine if they want to participate or not.  Is it really a sin not to know the small details that don't really effect the holiday anymore?  Like in NeeNee's example, does it really matter why exactly presents are put under a Christmas tree rather to the side or in front of the chimney? Why on earth would it matter?

You keep saying Toph was only asking for a simple answer, but is a question surrounded by insults to a dead culture really innocent? I think not.  Even if she did have a reasonable grudge against Aang, how can you justify her taking it out on people that are not Aang?  Her actions didn't just affect Aang, but the acolytes as well.

I wouldn't dismiss willful destruction of personal property just because it was temporary. The fact it happened in the first place was mean spirited.

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Katherine
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« Reply #72 on: Mar 09, 2014 02:07 am »

So what if Aang knows what to do? Its why do it that he can't answer at all. That was Toph's problem. The last time someone (Katara) reminded Toph of her parents, she yelled and kept scamming despite Katara's warning. I'm not surprised Toph acted in a similar fashion here. Its just her temperament: uncompromising, stubborn, and blunt. Toph's behavior is rude both times but she had a point both times.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #73 on: Mar 09, 2014 03:28 am »

^Agreed.

Thinking that your friends will support an event that's important to you is not childish.  It's part of what friends do. Aang participated in a water tribe custom that was important to Sokka and Katara. Aang and Sokka joined in Toph's scams because it was fun for her, even if it lead to trouble later.  There was nothing in that festival that was morally offensive to anyone present. And again, everyone had the choice of walking away if they found it out to their liking.
Thinking that your friends have to join everything you want to do IS childish. Friends aren't some toys you carry around and play with. They are real living beings. I'd never ask any of my friends to join something without making sure they want to. They can support me from sidelines by cheering on me. Aang could have easily asked them to watch it instead of participating. Yet, he expected them to participate in something he wasn't sure they would like or not. He didn't even care if they would like it he simply took them along because he wanted them there. That's very selfish and childish. 

Yes, there was something offensive to Toph. The fact that she was forced to cooperate without being given explanation which Aang didn't have. There doesn't need to be something offensive to everyone to make one person's complaints valid. If she doesn't like it, if it offends her, she shouldn't be there. No, they didn't have to choice to walk away. Walk where? They came there on Appa and there was literally nothing. Besides, do you really believe they wouldn't pull her along? Aang already "invited" them by not accepting no as an answer, if he wanted to take along someone who doesn't like it, he would have explained what it was and ASKED them to come along. It's not so difficult but this gives Toph chance to refuse which he didn't want to happen.

To those insults, yes she was wrong to insult his culture but I saw it only as calling Aang out on the fact that he has no idea why he's doing what he's doing. He had no idea what the festival is about, he had no idea who they were bowing to and he had no idea how it was all connected to Yangchen yet he expected everyone to cooperate and even went as far as to expect a whole factory to get removed just because of a tea party without a meaning. If this is alright according to you then I really don't know what to tell you because this is such perfect example of childishness that you wouldn't find a better one.
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 2014 03:52 am by HikaruIzumi » Logged

Nausicaa
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« Reply #74 on: Mar 09, 2014 08:15 am »

With the whole Toph vs. Aang thing....

Personally I found Aang the more sympathetic character of the two during this conflict. Both of them do bad things, but for me personally Toph comes across as the worse of the two. I think it's because Aang's motivations should be obvious to everybody around him- there are no more Air Nomads, so he wants to try and recapture part of that culture himself. Whereas Toph never outright says that going through the ceremony with no clear reason reminds her of her parents, and the others don't know anything about that to think that it would be a problem.

Also, Aang's a bit too pushy, but he never actually forces her to do anything. At the dinner he says "You guys are coming too!" and she doesn't disagree with him. He explains the ceremony on the ride over there, and she seems fine with it then. When she says no, the only protest he gives is "Toph, come on. Don't be like this.", and when Katara starts getting involved, he says it's okay, only for Toph to straight-up insult the custom.

Aang's wrong for insulting her of course, and he probably shouldn't have pressed her when she said no. (Though, from his perspective, she's refusing to do something she seemed fine with 5 minutes ago). But Toph is repeatedly insulting, without actually explaining why its a touchy subject for her. As far as we know, the Gaang only know that Toph's parents thought she was delicate, and wouldn't let her out on her own much. They don't know anything about this "that's just how it's done" stuff.

Whereas Aang's motivations seemed like something everybody else would be able to grasp, because they were so obvious.

On another subject, I found it weird that the Rough Rhinos were working there. I mean, wouldn't they pretty much be war criminals? I assume they're going to be a problem in a future comic.   
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