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Author Topic: [DH Comics #6] The Search, Part 3  (Read 69678 times)
Yougo
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« Reply #575 on: Jul 18, 2014 06:44 am »

so much for the whole mother bear analogy then :-/
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #576 on: Jul 18, 2014 06:55 am »

I call Hanlon's razor on this case: Ursa was just a really dumb woman, that's all.
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« Reply #577 on: Jul 18, 2014 07:05 pm »

(Basically, you know how Zuko was semi-suicidal in The Promise?  I think he inherited that tendency from Mom, even if she expressed it differently)

I'm still not sure where Zuko's suicidal tendencies came from or what they were supposed to say about him or his situation.

Really, I want to know what happened during that year-long-gap in The Promise that everyone in the entire cast changed so dramatically.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #578 on: Jul 19, 2014 03:37 am »

I agree with Wan-Shi-Tong. Ursa's character was completely destroyed by the comic. She acted as if she didn't give a damn about her children and only cared about herself. The fact that she willingly lost her memories upset me and then she was like "Sorry, I didn't love you enough." to Azula basically confirming that she was biased against her. To be honest, I consider Ursa to be the example of how not to act for mothers. The fact that she left her children with an abusive freak without even trying to help them and forgot the inconvenient memories just to be with her former love and make new kids with him is just frustrating.
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #579 on: Jul 19, 2014 05:30 am »

I just love how the fandom went for "Ursa was a nice mother and one of the only kind members of the FN Royal family ! GOD BLESS YOU URSA !" to "HO GOD ! SHE'S A TOTAL NUTBAG ! KILL HER WITH FIRE !"
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« Reply #580 on: Jul 19, 2014 08:00 am »

I just love how the fandom went for "Ursa was a nice mother and one of the only kind members of the FN Royal family ! GOD BLESS YOU URSA !" to "HO GOD ! SHE'S A TOTAL NUTBAG ! KILL HER WITH FIRE !"
You can always count on fandom to make a big deal out of something we didn't see. Cheesy
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #581 on: Jul 19, 2014 11:06 am »

I know that, my first posts as a naive, fresh newbie were about Ursa's characterization.
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DynaDratina
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« Reply #582 on: Jul 19, 2014 01:23 pm »

I can see a way that Ursa leaving for Hira'a and even abandoning her memories of her children could be justified without Ursa appearing to be dumb or a bad mother. But this requires something that the comics don't give a basis for, namely her trusting Ozai. If Ursa had reason to believe that Ozai had good in him, and that he loved their children, then she could leave them with him and be assured that they would be safe, even given Ozai's current obsession with the throne and his delusion that he could carry out Azulon's orders. Then, Ursa could depart with a sense of security, hoping that Ozai would lift himself and his family out of its dark days, and the fact that Ozai didn't do this would be a sad, tragic occurrence that Ursa had no way of predicting.

But in order for this to work, the comics would have to show us that Ursa had a basis for this trust, that Ozai really wouldn't have been able to harm Zuko at that point, and that the family had been strong and mutually loving enough for Ursa to be justified in believing it could survive without her. She could still love Ikem more than Ozai, and she could wish to be back in Hira'a all she wanted. She could even find Ikem and have another child with him. She would have erased her memories to ensure Ozai's success on the throne, and prevent anyone from the palace finding her and getting the truth of Azulon's fate out of her. Then, when she got her memories back at the end of the Search, she could have looked in horror at what happened to her old family, realized how wrong she had been about Ozai staying good, and worked with Zuko to mend things as much as possible. But for this to work, Ursa and Ozai had to be in love, or at least care for each other and their children enough to keep the family strong early on.

The Search sort of takes a step in this direction in the beginning. My favorite Ursa/Ozai scene is when they're in the carriage and Ozai calls off the guards for her sake. This sort of shows how he wants the chance of her love and is willing to help her out. But for the rest of the comic, the characters become monotone. Ozai is excessively cruel, and acts towards Zuko in such a way that the hand on Zuko's shoulder might as well be the painter's fictional addition. His relationship with Ursa has no love whatsoever. Ursa acts distantly towards Azula, without an explanation as to why. And the end result is something that doesn't click together with the show. The show implied that Zuko's family was actually happy once -- but happy as in everyone happy together, not just Ursa happy with Zuko and Ozai happy with Azula. Otherwise, Zuko's statement: "back when my family was actually happy" wouldn't have much force, since it would only be implying the Ozai-and-Azula, Ursa-and-Zuko division we already know about. If the comics had shown the family to be "actually happy", then we could justify Ursa doing what she did. (Even though it still wouldn't explain why Ursa would leave that family to go back to Ikem, but if we're intent on salvaging the current plot, I'm sure her greater love for Ikem can be incorporated here too.)

But as things currently stand, I agree with Wan-Shi-Tong-Servant. I can't call Ursa's actions anything but foolish, especially the letters, since those were quite a dangerous game to be playing with someone like Ozai. Personally, I'm not a fan of the flashback plotline itself, but even so, I still think it could have been salvaged if the comics had focused a more on the good in Ursa's and Ozai's family life.
« Last Edit: Jul 19, 2014 01:54 pm by DynaDratina » Logged

Loopy
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« Reply #583 on: Jul 19, 2014 01:54 pm »

That was very well said, but I personally disagree that Ursa was depicted as treating Azula poorly. Really, only Ursa's decision to give up her face/memories/children aligns with Azula's fears. Granted, we didn't see a lot of focused intereaction between the two, but Ursa was shown to spend time with both of her kids, and the scoldings she gave to Azula were justified and not harsh. We even got confirmation that Ursa visited Azula's bedroom before leaving.
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DynaDratina
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« Reply #584 on: Jul 19, 2014 02:01 pm »

I edited my post seconds before yours appeared. Tongue To be fair, what I originally said was "Ursa treats Azula in such a way that sort of justifies Azula's contempt for her", but now I've thought about it some more and decided that what I should have said was that Ursa doesn't treat Azula poorly, but distantly. (I was originally thinking about the page where Ursa is walking and interacting with Zuko while Azula is trailing behind.) I think we could have used more explanation as to why this relationship developed. I have a long-winded interpretation of why the Azula-Ursa relationship is what it is, and I was trying to fit it all into a few words. But yes, I agree with your point.
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Loopy
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« Reply #585 on: Jul 19, 2014 02:08 pm »

Okay, yeah, I can agree that there's a distant vibe to them.
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AvatarReiko
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« Reply #586 on: Jul 21, 2014 04:19 am »

What I don't get is this. When Ozai confronts her about the letter, which he states was obviously a lie, why did he a few panels early state 'I will let the child live, despite the lowliness of his true heritage'. What does he mean by this. He knows that Zuko is his son and  then goes on to say that the letter was an obviously. Isn't he contradicting himself.

Secondly, If Ozai knew that the Ursa was sending letters to Hir'ra, as he was filling them away, why was he angry at the fact that Ursa hadn't forgotten about her old life, when he confronts Was angry at the lie she made or

As for Ursa and Azula. I think she loved them both equally and this is shown. I think the reason it appears that she loved Zuko more contributed to the fact that she was always telling Azula off for her sociopathic behaviour, which strained their relationship, but that doesn't mean she didn't love Azula as much as Zuko.If I had two children, one whom was perfectly behaved, and the other I was constantly telling off, it could be perceived as me not loving that one as much as the perfectly behaved child. Zuko was just more pleasant, so it was easier for her to connect with Zuko, which Azula perceived as her favouring him. Furthermore, Zuko's personality and kind nature mirrored hers. All things considered, I do think that Ursa should have tried much harder to connect with Azula and show her that she loved her. Azula always felt that Ursa never loved her, so those feelings must have come from somewhere.

If I were in Ursa's she's, I would never forget my children, never. She knew what she would be giving up and she thought 'Ah, I'am a bad mum, screw it' I would have asked for a new face and thats it. With a new face, she could have returned to the capitol, perhaps get a job as a palace servant. When Zuko and Azula reached maturity, she could have revealed herself.
« Last Edit: Jul 21, 2014 04:34 am by AvatarReiko » Logged

Ikkin
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« Reply #587 on: Jul 21, 2014 06:35 am »

What I don't get is this. When Ozai confronts her about the letter, which he states was obviously a lie, why did he a few panels early state 'I will let the child live, despite the lowliness of his true heritage'. What does he mean by this. He knows that Zuko is his son and  then goes on to say that the letter was an obviously. Isn't he contradicting himself.

He was playing along in order to punish her for writing the letter in the first place -- basically, it's a "look what you made me do" kind of thing.


Quote
Secondly, If Ozai knew that the Ursa was sending letters to Hir'ra, as he was filling them away, why was he angry at the fact that Ursa hadn't forgotten about her old life, when he confronts Was angry at the lie she made or

He was angry because he realized how far she'd go to resist his control.  Sending letters home was pretty natural; coming up with that kind of lie to hurt him wasn't, really.
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AvatarReiko
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« Reply #588 on: Jul 21, 2014 07:26 am »

What I don't get is this. When Ozai confronts her about the letter, which he states was obviously a lie, why did he a few panels early state 'I will let the child live, despite the lowliness of his true heritage'. What does he mean by this. He knows that Zuko is his son and  then goes on to say that the letter was an obviously. Isn't he contradicting himself.

He was playing along in order to punish her for writing the letter in the first place -- basically, it's a "look what you made me do" kind of thing.


Quote
Secondly, If Ozai knew that the Ursa was sending letters to Hir'ra, as he was filling them away, why was he angry at the fact that Ursa hadn't forgotten about her old life, when he confronts Was angry at the lie she made or

He was angry because he realized how far she'd go to resist his control.  Sending letters home was pretty natural; coming up with that kind of lie to hurt him wasn't, really.

Thank you for clearing that up. I never understood those parts before.

It's clear that the only reaosn Ozai treated Zuko the way he did all those year  was just to spite Ursa. Obviously, Ursa's wish came true as his mistreatment of Zuko inadvertently led to Zuko becoming the person his mum wanted him to be. Is this to say that had Ursa not said what she said, taht Ozai would have treated Zuko as well as Azula and not have burned his face banished him.
« Last Edit: Jul 21, 2014 07:31 am by AvatarReiko » Logged

Loopy
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« Reply #589 on: Jul 21, 2014 05:51 pm »

I think Ozai is just a jerk and Azula was an anomaly when it came to people liking him. Like, I don't expect that Ozai would have been understanding of Zuko's empathy and lackluster Firebending in any universe.
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Yougo
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« Reply #590 on: Jul 22, 2014 12:15 am »

I also wouldn't attribute zuko's turning out right to Ozai treating him badly. I give that one to Iroh patching him up, teaching him the good stuff through discovery and showing him the world.

Take away Iroh and an emotionally and physically scarred 12 yo boy who can't wash and clothe himself without servants on a boat is doomed
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« Reply #591 on: Jul 22, 2014 07:04 am »

Merged with The Search Part 3 discussion as people were discussing about this. Also, the title was too spoilery for those who did not read the comics.
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fraroc
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« Reply #592 on: Sep 12, 2014 07:46 am »

I agree with Wan-Shi-Tong. Ursa's character was completely destroyed by the comic. She acted as if she didn't give a damn about her children and only cared about herself. The fact that she willingly lost her memories upset me and then she was like "Sorry, I didn't love you enough." to Azula basically confirming that she was biased against her. To be honest, I consider Ursa to be the example of how not to act for mothers. The fact that she left her children with an abusive freak without even trying to help them and forgot the inconvenient memories just to be with her former love and make new kids with him is just frustrating.

Are you kidding me, did you even SEE that part? As soon as she said "yes" to the offer to have her memories of Zuko and Azula wiped, she started to cry. Obviously, that points to having deep regrets to her decision. Ozai put her through hell, combined with the fact that he decided to treat Zuko like absolute sh*t simply to spite her wishes that Zuko was not Ozai's child.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #593 on: Sep 12, 2014 07:58 am »

It's clear that the only reaosn Ozai treated Zuko the way he did all those year  was just to spite Ursa. Obviously, Ursa's wish came true as his mistreatment of Zuko inadvertently led to Zuko becoming the person his mum wanted him to be. Is this to say that had Ursa not said what she said, taht Ozai would have treated Zuko as well as Azula and not have burned his face banished him.

In a better world, Ursa would intentionally turn Ozai against Zuko to alienate the two and prevent Zuko from turning into Ozai 2.0. In this world, fan would argue about whether Ursa's cold pragmatism was justified or not instead of wondering about her apparent stupidity. In a better world  Tongue...
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #594 on: Sep 12, 2014 08:23 am »

No purfuct world 4 you AtoMaki.
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Just passin' through


« Reply #595 on: Sep 13, 2014 02:17 pm »

Since this thread has been bumped up, i'd like to mention that there are some cool production stills from the The Search fan movie that were recently uploaded. Seems like it's progressing nicely. It should be coming out Spring 2015 apparently.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #596 on: Sep 14, 2014 11:39 pm »

It does look like it will be good and the Avatar version of Risk looks pretty cool, hopefully the creators will see it (the game and movie). Also am I the only one who noticed that Ursa after getting her face back seems to look aged? It's pretty funny that Ozai still pretty much looks the same (can't really claim it's because he's still royalty, Sozin looked decrepit at only age 70) and the Water Tribe brother looks like he was de-aged, getting back the appearance he had when he originally lost it as opposed to looking the age he is now. I feel bad for his sister, she spent forty years trying to find the mother of all faces and failed to do so until much later. Plus I'd say the brother deserved to have his face restored before Ikem and Ursa were granted new identities, seriously spirit what the heck?
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daventry
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« Reply #597 on: Nov 15, 2014 02:18 am »

What happened to Azula at the end when she ran away, did the Mother of All Faces changed her appearance and Identity or was she captured again. Do we see her again in the Rift Comic
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #598 on: Nov 15, 2014 05:35 am »

I think MOF was like "screw you guys" at the end of it all, with this human darncrap. Plus, Azula at this point could probably communicate only by screaming, foaming or something else.
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Red Lotus Grandmaster
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« Reply #599 on: Nov 15, 2014 08:29 am »

What happened to Azula at the end when she ran away, did the Mother of All Faces changed her appearance and Identity or was she captured again. Do we see her again in the Rift Comic

This raises an interesting question; If the mother of faces changed Azula's identity, would she lose her bending as well?
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