AvatarSpirit.Net
Nov 19, 2019 09:23 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
ASN Mainsite: AvatarSpirit.net
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Poll
Question: Would you prefer novels as part of the expanded literature of Avatar?
Yes, in conjunction with the comics. - 21 (44.7%)
Yes, replacing the comics. - 10 (21.3%)
No, stick to just the comics. - 8 (17%)
No, only the shows. - 8 (17%)
Total Voters: 47

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Would you prefer novels?  (Read 10990 times)
Avatar Epsilon
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 2971


I can't think of anything clever to say.


« Reply #50 on: Apr 18, 2014 08:44 pm »

Why would they need to rewrite them? Just have the hypothetical novel take place after the comics. Or they could do other stories with non-gaang characters that take place alongside the comics. Why would the novels need to replace the comics?
Logged

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character." (As said by me)
guyw1tn0nam3
Banned Member
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 6585


Why are you so salty?


« Reply #51 on: Apr 18, 2014 08:57 pm »

Why would they need to rewrite them? Just have the hypothetical novel take place after the comics. Or they could do other stories with non-gaang characters that take place alongside the comics. Why would the novels need to replace the comics?

Um....if you were following the conversation, Funkybender said the following:

Quote
I do think there are some things post-ATLA and prior to LoK that could be covered well in a novel; for one, I'm not so pleased with the portrayal of the immediate postwar era; the consequences of Zuko's ascent to the thrown, the EK-FN tensions, and the Yu Dao crisis. A lot more could have been done to play up the conflict between the jingoistic old ways of the Fire Nation and the new philosophy Zuko was trying to introduce, and just how difficult that change would be for FN society.

I was merely responded to the fact that if you disliked those things, they're canon, and the only real way to resolve your dislike of said situations (since so much has presumably happened in the comics), would be to rewrite them.
Logged

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of salt spilling all over the kitchen table.
Funkybender
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 808


« Reply #52 on: Apr 18, 2014 09:08 pm »

Why would they need to rewrite them? Just have the hypothetical novel take place after the comics. Or they could do other stories with non-gaang characters that take place alongside the comics. Why would the novels need to replace the comics?

Um....if you were following the conversation, Funkybender said the following:

Quote
I do think there are some things post-ATLA and prior to LoK that could be covered well in a novel; for one, I'm not so pleased with the portrayal of the immediate postwar era; the consequences of Zuko's ascent to the thrown, the EK-FN tensions, and the Yu Dao crisis. A lot more could have been done to play up the conflict between the jingoistic old ways of the Fire Nation and the new philosophy Zuko was trying to introduce, and just how difficult that change would be for FN society.

I was merely responded to the fact that if you disliked those things, they're canon, and the only real way to resolve your dislike of said situations (since so much has presumably happened in the comics), would be to rewrite them.

My bad, I could have worded that better. I wouldn't advocate rewriting anything already depicted in the comics; that would be really controversial, and I'd rather see other topics explored.
Logged
guyw1tn0nam3
Banned Member
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 6585


Why are you so salty?


« Reply #53 on: Apr 18, 2014 09:14 pm »

Ah, okay.

In that case, it's still a really trick patch of thorns. I mean, again, even if you dislike the comics, it's difficult to argue that there wasn't a lot of stuff that happened that has wide ranging implications, and I think trying to explore it more would be pretty difficult.

That being said though, I wouldn't mind an attempt at it.
Logged

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of salt spilling all over the kitchen table.
Funkybender
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 808


« Reply #54 on: Apr 18, 2014 09:53 pm »

Ah, okay.

In that case, it's still a really trick patch of thorns. I mean, again, even if you dislike the comics, it's difficult to argue that there wasn't a lot of stuff that happened that has wide ranging implications, and I think trying to explore it more would be pretty difficult.

That being said though, I wouldn't mind an attempt at it.

Oh yeah, I don't take issue with the events themselves, just the plot and pacing of The Promise. I felt The Search was much better. Plus, pulling a "yeah, Gene, we're rewriting your story" wouldn't go over well. That's another reason why I feel the side character or prequel approach is more feasible.
Logged
Avatar Epsilon
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 2971


I can't think of anything clever to say.


« Reply #55 on: Apr 19, 2014 12:27 am »

I honestly would like to see a story about the second Avatar. It would be a weird time. Human Civilizations would just be beginning to stabilize but the concept of the Avatar is still probably foreign. The second Avatar would probably not have the authority that he or she would in the present day story and their aren't that many past lives to fall back on for advice. I think that would be interesting since it probably took a few Avatar cycles to really get the concept grounded in society. It would be fun to see how the Avatar was treated before that happened.
Logged

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character." (As said by me)
guyw1tn0nam3
Banned Member
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 6585


Why are you so salty?


« Reply #56 on: Apr 19, 2014 12:28 am »

Yeah.....there were like thirty fanfiction stories of that exact same synopsis after Beginnings. Pretty sure a lot of people are a fan of that idea.
Logged

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of salt spilling all over the kitchen table.
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 32209


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #57 on: Apr 19, 2014 03:17 pm »

Why not, every franchise with licensed spin-offs do it all the time. Cheesy It's only Star Wars that stubbornly clings to the dreck and worships at the alter of a canon system.

Avatar has already started over-writing its own supplementary material, it's only another half a step to issue an apology and replacement for The Promise.
Logged

Red Hawk
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 917



« Reply #58 on: Apr 19, 2014 06:21 pm »

I honestly would like to see a story about the second Avatar. It would be a weird time. Human Civilizations would just be beginning to stabilize but the concept of the Avatar is still probably foreign. The second Avatar would probably not have the authority that he or she would in the present day story and their aren't that many past lives to fall back on for advice. I think that would be interesting since it probably took a few Avatar cycles to really get the concept grounded in society. It would be fun to see how the Avatar was treated before that happened.

The second Avatar was undoubtedly important and plenty of interesting stories could be written about him/her.  I doubt it will ever happen though; if the first Avatar only got a two-part TV special, albeit an exceptionally good TV special, then the second Avatar is not going to be high on Mike and Bryan's priority list.  I'd place odds on us getting a story, either animated or in comics, about Aang and company when they were adults before we would get story about the second Avatar.

Why not, every franchise with licensed spin-offs do it all the time. Cheesy It's only Star Wars that stubbornly clings to the dreck and worships at the alter of a canon system.

Avatar has already started over-writing its own supplementary material, it's only another half a step to issue an apology and replacement for The Promise.

Well it would be pretty rude to Gene to start with.  And what do you mean Avatar has started over-writing its supplementary material?
Logged
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 32209


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #59 on: Apr 19, 2014 06:40 pm »

Info from the old website has been overwritten. Ursa was explicitly stated to be noble-born, Zuko was said to have taught himself swordfighting during his exile, and Piandao was described as being a criminal who the Fire Lord was ignoring out of a desire to lose no more troops trying to arrest him after 100 had already died.

The former was of course contradicted by The Search, and one of the comics in the Nick magazine had Zuko being formally sent to learn swordfighting from Piandao before his exile, contradicting the latter two.

I think there are more, but those are my personal pet peeves and so I remember them.

As for whether it's rude, I don't know how published authors feel about that, but if the comic book industry is anything to go by, it's just part of the everyday business.
Logged

Red Hawk
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 917



« Reply #60 on: Apr 19, 2014 06:51 pm »

Info from the old website has been overwritten. Ursa was explicitly stated to be noble-born, Zuko was said to have taught himself swordfighting during his exile, and Piandao was described as being a criminal who the Fire Lord was ignoring out of a desire to lose no more troops trying to arrest him after 100 had already died.

The former was of course contradicted by The Search, and one of the comics in the Nick magazine had Zuko being formally sent to learn swordfighting from Piandao before his exile, contradicting the latter two.

I think there are more, but those are my personal pet peeves and so I remember them.

As for whether it's rude, I don't know how published authors feel about that, but if the comic book industry is anything to go by, it's just part of the everyday business.

Hmm...I feel like I've said this before, but I wouldn't equate information on the website with an actual published story like The Promise/The Search/The Rift.  It's nice for a little background but I don't think the writers should be constrained by it, while I do think the writers should pay attention to what actually happened in the comics.
Logged
Avatar Epsilon
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 2971


I can't think of anything clever to say.


« Reply #61 on: Apr 19, 2014 07:24 pm »

The way I see it, the info from the website is basically just a placeholder for stuff until the actual series addresses them. I wouldn't say anything is canon until its actually brought up in the story.

And I would personally hate it if they replaced the Promise. Yeah, it has its problems but it happened. There is really no reason to retcon it. Let's explore other stories and events instead of redoing already written ones just because a part of the fandom happens to not like it.
Logged

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character." (As said by me)
Funkybender
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 808


« Reply #62 on: Apr 20, 2014 01:18 am »

Info from the old website has been overwritten. Ursa was explicitly stated to be noble-born, Zuko was said to have taught himself swordfighting during his exile, and Piandao was described as being a criminal who the Fire Lord was ignoring out of a desire to lose no more troops trying to arrest him after 100 had already died.

The former was of course contradicted by The Search, and one of the comics in the Nick magazine had Zuko being formally sent to learn swordfighting from Piandao before his exile, contradicting the latter two.

I think there are more, but those are my personal pet peeves and so I remember them.

As for whether it's rude, I don't know how published authors feel about that, but if the comic book industry is anything to go by, it's just part of the everyday business.

Without going too in-depth into the social and political mores of the Fire Nation, I suppose it is possible for Ursa's backstory as detailed in The Search and the information from the site to coexist, if local mayors or magistrates are considered minor nobility. Jinzuk and Rina certainly didn't live like a prestigious family would, and didn't seem to have any direct control over the citizens of Hiraa, so we could infer that Ursa's family was not of noble status, or if they were that it wasn't a feudal relationship. Then again, it's still an overwrite of previous canon. As for Piandao, I actually never knew he was ever described as a criminal with such a reputation preceding him. Now I'm curious.

Hmm...I feel like I've said this before, but I wouldn't equate information on the website with an actual published story like The Promise/The Search/The Rift.  It's nice for a little background but I don't think the writers should be constrained by it, while I do think the writers should pay attention to what actually happened in the comics.

I wouldn't say the writers are constrained by it, but perceptive viewers and readers will catch the discrepancy. Since these are, as a whole, relatively minor changes (again, that's subjective, but no one's parents have been changed, or something like that), they probably aren't perceived as important enough to need to be addressed by an official retcon. The comics are effectively that retcon.

The way I see it, the info from the website is basically just a placeholder for stuff until the actual series addresses them. I wouldn't say anything is canon until its actually brought up in the story.

And I would personally hate it if they replaced the Promise. Yeah, it has its problems but it happened. There is really no reason to retcon it. Let's explore other stories and events instead of redoing already written ones just because a part of the fandom happens to not like it.

I'm in agreement based on the fact that retooling The Promise's plot could possibly equate to time and effort not being spent on exploring new stories.
Logged
plushu
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3708

157% PIANDAOIST


« Reply #63 on: Apr 20, 2014 08:37 am »

As for Piandao, I actually never knew he was ever described as a criminal with such a reputation preceding him. Now I'm curious.

According to the site, Piandao was a deserter who killed one hundred of Azulon's men when they came to arrest him.
Logged

Solid Sun
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3192


dio did nothing wrong


« Reply #64 on: Apr 20, 2014 10:18 am »

I believe they should make votes to see the most popular character outside Azula and stuff and then make a novel about him/her.
Logged



Featuring : Polaris, Zyrax HikaruIzumi, Blue Warpath, Prophet of Doom, Weegee the Airbender, TyLuko4Ever, Johan, Riptide, SunxFire and AtoMaki : D
Loopy
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 32209


I'm Loooooooopy!


« Reply #65 on: Apr 21, 2014 07:26 pm »

Hmm...I feel like I've said this before, but I wouldn't equate information on the website with an actual published story like The Promise/The Search/The Rift.  It's nice for a little background but I don't think the writers should be constrained by it, while I do think the writers should pay attention to what actually happened in the comics.

That's very nice for you, but what did you think "supplementary" was going to mean? The stuff on the website was supplementary to the main story, and now the main story is contradicting it.


And I would personally hate it if they replaced the Promise. Yeah, it has its problems but it happened. There is really no reason to retcon it. Let's explore other stories and events instead of redoing already written ones just because a part of the fandom happens to not like it.

Whether the fandom likes it or not, it fundamentally defines the relationship between Aang and Zuko, and sets the stage for everything involving the colonies to come afterward. The start of any reboot or alternative character interpretations is going to have to start by tossing The Promise. It's not like The Search and The Rift, where it's self-contained and the characters aren't really affected.


I believe they should make votes to see the most popular character outside Azula and stuff and then make a novel about him/her.

I admire your faith in the fandom.
Logged

Funkybender
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 808


« Reply #66 on: Apr 21, 2014 08:26 pm »

I believe they should make votes to see the most popular character outside Azula and stuff and then make a novel about him/her.

You know you want The Wolf of Omashu, the tell-all memoir from Cabbage Corp's ruthless CEO.
Logged
Avatar Epsilon
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 2971


I can't think of anything clever to say.


« Reply #67 on: Apr 22, 2014 01:24 am »

The start of any reboot or alternative character interpretations is going to have to start by tossing The Promise.

Yeah, I get that part. But why should their be a reboot or anything like that? Why not just expand the universe and write new stories instead of retooling an old one?
Logged

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character." (As said by me)
Solid Sun
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3192


dio did nothing wrong


« Reply #68 on: Apr 22, 2014 03:35 am »

Hmm...I feel like I've said this before, but I wouldn't equate information on the website with an actual published story like The Promise/The Search/The Rift.  It's nice for a little background but I don't think the writers should be constrained by it, while I do think the writers should pay attention to what actually happened in the comics.

That's very nice for you, but what did you think "supplementary" was going to mean? The stuff on the website was supplementary to the main story, and now the main story is contradicting it.


And I would personally hate it if they replaced the Promise. Yeah, it has its problems but it happened. There is really no reason to retcon it. Let's explore other stories and events instead of redoing already written ones just because a part of the fandom happens to not like it.

Whether the fandom likes it or not, it fundamentally defines the relationship between Aang and Zuko, and sets the stage for everything involving the colonies to come afterward. The start of any reboot or alternative character interpretations is going to have to start by tossing The Promise. It's not like The Search and The Rift, where it's self-contained and the characters aren't really affected.


I believe they should make votes to see the most popular character outside Azula and stuff and then make a novel about him/her.

I admire your faith in the fandom.

Rofl, at best, they can yell "ENOUGH OF YOU, FANS ! EAT THIS !" and launch a novel with Azula dying, some of the most bloody scenes ever (a river of blood will come out of the smallest flesh wound), OOC Aang who enjoy destruction, serious Sokka who crave for fighting, wangsty season 1 Zuko and Mary Sues.
The sheer nuclear explosion of hatred of the fans will block the sun.
Logged



Featuring : Polaris, Zyrax HikaruIzumi, Blue Warpath, Prophet of Doom, Weegee the Airbender, TyLuko4Ever, Johan, Riptide, SunxFire and AtoMaki : D
Red Hawk
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 917



« Reply #69 on: Apr 22, 2014 03:42 am »

That's very nice for you, but what did you think "supplementary" was going to mean? The stuff on the website was supplementary to the main story, and now the main story is contradicting it.

Exactly, it was supplementary to the main story, not a story on its own.  The comics are stories on their own.  Contradicting a little side information and contradicting an actual published story really aren't the same thing.  The former does not set a precedent for the latter.
Logged
Funkybender
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 808


« Reply #70 on: Apr 22, 2014 08:58 am »

The start of any reboot or alternative character interpretations is going to have to start by tossing The Promise.

Yeah, I get that part. But why should their be a reboot or anything like that? Why not just expand the universe and write new stories instead of retooling an old one?

I'm not in favor of a reboot, but the main problem with The Promise is that Gene's interpretation of the relationship between Aang and Zuko directly contradicts Aang's guiding ethos in ATLA. He spent several episodes seriously distressed at the prospect of having to kill Ozai, and tried to find a way by which he could defeat him without killing him. Within the first few pages of The Promise, Aang has already agreed to end Zuko should he become like his father, with little hesitation. You could say that the connotation of the word "end" is ambiguous, but I think it was clear what Zuko meant. That is very out-of-character.
Logged
guyw1tn0nam3
Banned Member
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 6585


Why are you so salty?


« Reply #71 on: Apr 22, 2014 10:54 am »

Reboots have happened before when you know...something is not good. #euphemism

I don't care enough for a reboot, but I was merely making the statement that the comments that people are making about wanting some in between novels that involve the Gaang will most likely have to tackle the events of The Promise, most of which I thought were not up to par. #euphemism

But as far as most other topics are concerned, I honestly think all the ideas are kind of fanfiction territory, since there's just no need to expand upon certain stories (there's a certain magic in leaving some tales untold at times), whether it's ideas about the second Avatar, or post-war ATLA fiction, or other side character stories. I guess people want them, but to that I'd say people should actually just check out fanfiction, since I think if you do your research and know what's good there's so much content out there that I'd say is stronger in every way to whatever The Promise was.
Logged

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of salt spilling all over the kitchen table.
Red Hawk
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 917



« Reply #72 on: Apr 22, 2014 04:06 pm »

I'm not in favor of a reboot, but the main problem with The Promise is that Gene's interpretation of the relationship between Aang and Zuko directly contradicts Aang's guiding ethos in ATLA. He spent several episodes seriously distressed at the prospect of having to kill Ozai, and tried to find a way by which he could defeat him without killing him. Within the first few pages of The Promise, Aang has already agreed to end Zuko should he become like his father, with little hesitation. You could say that the connotation of the word "end" is ambiguous, but I think it was clear what Zuko meant. That is very out-of-character.

Little hesitation?  He protests at the suggestion.  It's only thanks to pressure from Zuko and Katara that Aang agrees.  It was always pretty clear to me that it was a promise that Aang never wanted to make.  The prolonged character drama and conflict was saved for Aang deciding whether or not to carry out his promise, not making the promise in the first place.
Logged
Avatar Epsilon
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 2971


I can't think of anything clever to say.


« Reply #73 on: Apr 22, 2014 04:22 pm »

Also, according to the library edition, Gene (and Bryke) notes that in Zuko's case, Zuko WANTED to be killed if he turned out like his father. It was consensual. Hence why Aang promised Zuko with only a little bit of hesitation. I think there was more to it then that (and I'm to lazy right now to go get my book for a direct quote) but that was the general idea.

I'm not saying I personally think that justifies it or that is a good explanation but that was the idea behind it. If someone wants a direct quote I guess I can go find my book though.
Logged

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character." (As said by me)
plushu
Never Gonna Give Yue Up

Offline Offline

Posts: 3708

157% PIANDAOIST


« Reply #74 on: Apr 22, 2014 04:45 pm »

Also, according to the library edition, Gene (and Bryke) notes that in Zuko's case, Zuko WANTED to be killed if he turned out like his father. It was consensual.

Thanks, Library Edition, for telling us things we already know. Obviously, it was consensual because it was Zuko's idea.
Logged

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines LLC
MySQL | PHP | XHTML | CSS