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Author Topic: Comparing the villains from LOK to A:TLA  (Read 14339 times)
fireywaters
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« on: Feb 09, 2013 09:14 pm »

I don't know if there is a thread for this already, if not please forgive me.

But how do the villain gallery of Legend Of Korra compare to the villain of Avatar: The Last Airbender?

Well where do I begin, there are more villains in A:TLA than Korra, but I do feel the main villains Amon and Ozai are similar. And they have the flow, they are very generic and have no real personality or anything fun to them, though they are voiced by two great voice actors. Though Ozai does show more of a personality in "The Promise" but let's try to keep this only to the cartoon series. Though if I compare them, I think give Amon the edge in that I know he has great power and lives up to the hype. We just hear that Ozai is the greatest Fire bender in the world, we don't really see it.

In a way I think the secendary villains outshines them, in this case Tarrlok and Azula. They make up for the main baddies lack of a personality.

If I compare Amon to Azula, I say the difference is simple. Both very powerful, both has beaten the Avatar at least once, and give a great blow to the Avatar, but once get past that, for better or worse, Azula is fun. She is a fun character that has personality behind that awesomeness. She has some great one liners, has some catch phrases, and able to be funny while still being a serious threat. In a way that adds to her awesomeness that she can do that and not hurt her villain cred. Amon he is a very generic character, granted I guess he has to be, being a mask man.


Fixed typo in thread title. ~ Icy
« Last Edit: Jan 07, 2014 01:16 am by Icy_Ashford » Logged

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Singe
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 09, 2013 09:27 pm »

The main thing about Ozai is that he sits on his throne for most of the series, focused on building his hype. They say he's evil and must be defeated. The reason gets redefined to being politically symbolic.

Amon and Azula are different since we get to see them in action. We know what they are capable of.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 10, 2013 04:30 am »

If I compare Amon to Azula, I say the difference is simple. Both very powerful, both has beaten the Avatar at least once, and give a great blow to the Avatar, but once get past that, for better or worse, Azula is fun. She is a fun character that has personality behind that awesomeness. She has some great one liners, has some catch phrases, and able to be funny while still being a serious threat. In a way that adds to her awesomeness that she can do that and not hurt her villain cred. Amon he is a very generic character, granted I guess he has to be, being a mask man.

I think Jet is a better comparsion for Amon. They bot had "supposedly good stuff" in their minds, used charisma to win over messed-up people and fought a guerilla war against their opponents. They both went to the extremes, and they both had something "shoooooking" to justify it. At the end, they both went against the very cause they were fighting for, and proved that they are just as evil as their portrayed enemies. They both liked to hurt innocents. And lastly, they both have fairly popular ships with the main cast (Jetara/Amorra)  Cheesy.

Ozai is more like Hiroshi. Crazy dad with power. The only difference is that Hiroshi was set up as a good guy, while Ozai was evul all along.

Tarrlok is clearly just a waterbender rip-off of Long Feng. You can just replace them with each other, and the story will still work in both shows.

The Lieutenant is an original villain though. I can't recall a singe "fanatic devotee" type of character from the original show. No wonder he is so popular  Smiley...
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013 04:34 am by AtoMaki » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: Feb 10, 2013 08:44 am »

Quote
Tarrlok is clearly just a waterbender rip-off of Long Feng. You can just replace them with each other, and the story will still work in both shows.

I wouldn't say that. The only thing they have in common is their nefarious political scheming. Tarrlock has an interesting dynamic with the main characters (Korra, Tenzin and Amon) and an established background - something that Long Feng lacked (aside from what Azula mentioned in passing).
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In the aftermath of the Revolution, Republic City is in turmoil. As the Triads, Equalists and the URN battle for control of the city, Korra must accept that she can no longer be the world's Avatar.
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 10, 2013 10:37 am »

Individually I'd go

Amon>>>Azula>Tarrlok>Zhao>Lieutenant>Ozai>Hiroshi>Long Feng

But villians is really one place where the writers of Korra showed it learned a lot from doing ATLA first.
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 10, 2013 06:13 pm »

Quote
Tarrlok is clearly just a waterbender rip-off of Long Feng. You can just replace them with each other, and the story will still work in both shows.

Their ultimate goals and roles they play are more or less the same, but Tarrlok's character was more fleshed out then Long Feng. He's as much a power hungry social climber like Long Feng was, but Tarrlok's also portrayed as an extremely misguided man. The waterbender truly believed his actions were justified and is given a sympathetic history. While the earthbender's back-story is never explored beyond a single line and his actions all came down to being  just a corrupted politician.   
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 10, 2013 06:21 pm »

You really can't compare Azula to any other villain in the franchise. She's pretty much a head and her boots higher than anyone else as far as quality, memorability, and writing is concerned.
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Singe
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 10, 2013 06:42 pm »

There are a few other notable villains.
Sozin
Hama
Tahno before being debend. 
Yon Rha
Jet
Combustion Man
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 10, 2013 07:23 pm »

Tahno wasn't a villian. There is a difference between a villian and a jerk.
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 10, 2013 07:33 pm »

Tahno wasn't a villian. There is a difference between a villian and a jerk.

Exactly. There's a HUGE difference between a jerkbender in a tournament and a psychopath who wants to burn the whole world to ash.    
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013 09:11 pm by Avatar Lizzy » Logged


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« Reply #10 on: Feb 10, 2013 07:58 pm »

I would see Sozin, Hama, and Cumbustion Man as villains, not Jet and Yon Rha (And Tahno, but he was already explained.)

Jet and Yon Rha just did what they thought was right. Jet may have wanted to wipe out an entire town with a flood, but it was only because he thought it would rid the forest of firebenders and protect his gang. Yon Rha just followed orders and killed the "waterbender" in the Southern Tribe. He didn't think too much of it.
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Singe
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 10, 2013 08:49 pm »

Tahno wasn't a villian. There is a difference between a villian and a jerk.

Exactly. There's a HUGE difference between a jerkbender in a tournament and a psychopath who wants to burn the the whole world to the ash.    

Besides the bribing of the ref, his team is known for maliciously injuring the opposing team. You see how they take aim at the head for example and some lethal moves.

I would see Sozin, Hama, and Cumbustion Man as villains, not Jet and Yon Rha (And Tahno, but he was already explained.)

Jet and Yon Rha just did what they thought was right. Jet may have wanted to wipe out an entire town with a flood, but it was only because he thought it would rid the forest of firebenders and protect his gang. Yon Rha just followed orders and killed the "waterbender" in the Southern Tribe. He didn't think too much of it.

Yon Rha was evil, he committed crimes against humanity with murder and racial persecution.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013 09:27 pm by Singe » Logged
fireywaters
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 10, 2013 09:21 pm »

I would see Sozin, Hama, and Cumbustion Man as villains, not Jet and Yon Rha (And Tahno, but he was already explained.)

Jet and Yon Rha just did what they thought was right. Jet may have wanted to wipe out an entire town with a flood, but it was only because he thought it would rid the forest of firebenders and protect his gang. Yon Rha just followed orders and killed the "waterbender" in the Southern Tribe. He didn't think too much of it.

Jet is more of a anti hero than a villain. He was always on Team Avatar's side as far as taking down the Fire Lord. Yon Rha I assumed was told to capture all the waterbenders from the Southern Tribe, he took it upon himself to kill them. Granted Azulon wouldn't mind, but still he clearly enjoy what he did.

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Singe
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 10, 2013 09:38 pm »

Jet was a nationalist with a simple understanding that all Fire Nation are invaders and must be removed from the Earth Kingdom by any means.

One thing to note about both Jet and Yon Rha was their actions would have led to the murder of children.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013 11:01 pm by Singe » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 10, 2013 09:51 pm »

Tahno wasn't a villian. There is a difference between a villian and a jerk.

Exactly. There's a HUGE difference between a jerkbender in a tournament and a psychopath who wants to burn the the whole world to the ash.   

Besides the bribing of the ref, his team is known for maliciously injuring the opposing team. You see how they take aim at the head for example and some lethal moves.

He's a sadist jerk with fancy hair, but that doesn't mean he's a super villain. Tahno is more like a rival jerk jock in high school who does whatever it takes to get to the top. Not good, not right, but it's a pretty big leap to the guy leading terrorists or the guy who tried to wipe out an entire country just because it's there.   
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« Reply #15 on: Feb 10, 2013 10:45 pm »

Tahno wasn't a villian. There is a difference between a villian and a jerk.

Exactly. There's a HUGE difference between a jerkbender in a tournament and a psychopath who wants to burn the the whole world to the ash.    

Besides the bribing of the ref, his team is known for maliciously injuring the opposing team. You see how they take aim at the head for example and some lethal moves.

He's a sadist jerk with fancy hair, but that doesn't mean he's a super villain. Tahno is more like a rival jerk jock in high school who does whatever it takes to get to the top. Not good, not right, but it's a pretty big leap to the guy leading terrorists or the guy who tried to wipe out an entire country just because it's there.    

Villains can exist in any occupation to varying degrees. Tahno is a sports villain. He cheats at the game. Intimidates other players. He had malicious intent of injuring other players.

Power Rangers had the evil Rita and her minions. Then there was the local bullies Bulk and Skull who got their kicks by harassing others.

Batman Villains, Superman Villains, GL Villains all exist in the same Universe in various ways.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013 10:57 pm by Singe » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: Feb 10, 2013 11:07 pm »

Tahno wasn't a villian. There is a difference between a villian and a jerk.

Exactly. There's a HUGE difference between a jerkbender in a tournament and a psychopath who wants to burn the the whole world to the ash.    

Besides the bribing of the ref, his team is known for maliciously injuring the opposing team. You see how they take aim at the head for example and some lethal moves.

He's a sadist jerk with fancy hair, but that doesn't mean he's a super villain. Tahno is more like a rival jerk jock in high school who does whatever it takes to get to the top. Not good, not right, but it's a pretty big leap to the guy leading terrorists or the guy who tried to wipe out an entire country just because it's there.    

Villains can exist in any occupation to varying degrees. Tahno is a sports villain. He cheats at the game. Intimidates other players. He had malicious intent of injuring other players.

Power Rangers had the evil Rita and her minions. Then there was the local bullies Bulk and Skull who got their kicks by harassing others.

Batman Villains, Superman Villains, GL Villains all exist in the same Universe in various ways.

I agree that a villain can come from anywhere and reveal their evil in various ways; I just believe it's a stretch to place Tahno in the same league as Azula, Amon or Long Feng. To me, it's more along the lines of putting Flash in Spider-Man's rouge gallery right up with Green Goblin.    
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013 11:34 pm by Avatar Lizzy » Logged


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« Reply #17 on: Feb 10, 2013 11:27 pm »

More along the lines of putting Flash in Spider-Man's rouge gallery right up with Green Goblin.    

This is a perfect comparison. Tahno was a bully, an antagonist, but he was never a villain.

I think the problem is some people look at this issue like a black and white type thing, either you're good or you're bad, but in reality some of these characters are somewhere in between. I guess this could also depend on your definition of "villain" as well.
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Singe
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« Reply #18 on: Feb 10, 2013 11:35 pm »

Probending was an arc and Tahno was the villain in that one.

The standard for being a great villain is how successful they are in attaining their goals and maintaining their place.
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« Reply #19 on: Feb 10, 2013 11:46 pm »

More along the lines of putting Flash in Spider-Man's rouge gallery right up with Green Goblin.    

Tahno was a bully, an antagonist, but he was never a villain.

Right, there's no denying that Tahno was a bully who needed to be knocked down a few pegs, but I don't see him going to Azula's level in jerkbending.

Quote
I think the problem is some people look at this issue like a black and white type thing, either you're good or you're bad, but in reality some of these characters are somewhere in between. I guess this could also depend on your definition of "villain" as well.

In a show like ATLA/LOK, many of the characters have grey motives behind everything they do and categorizing them in "Pure Good" or "Pure Evil" is a bit unrealistic. Villain is a pretty broad and somewhat subjective title, so I suppose like you said King, it's how one defines a character as such.
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« Reply #20 on: Feb 11, 2013 12:00 am »

Remember all those Probender teams had to ante thirty thousand yuans into the pot to play in the Tournament. Whoever wins the tournament gets all that money. Now Tahno and his team has been winning by cheating for a few years. Translated, he has literally swindled the other players out of hundreds of thousands of yuan.
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« Reply #21 on: Feb 11, 2013 03:20 am »

^ And most likely a lot of it went to his benefactors and contacts in the underworld.

I find it hard to believe that the people he has partnered with would let most of the earning stay with a 'pretty boy' like Tahno.
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« Reply #22 on: Feb 28, 2013 01:30 am »

Quote
The Lieutenant is an original villain though. I can't recall a singe "fanatic devotee" type of character from the original show. No wonder he is so popular  Smiley

The Lieutenant makes an interesting villain. Essentially, he's the Dragon to Amon's Big Bad, but from what little development we get about the man, we see he's more complex then a typical minion. What sets hm apart from Zhao or Long Feng, is that he sincerely believes what he's doing is for the greater good. It's not about taking over For The Evulz to him, but because it's "logical."

He's a bit similar to Jet in that the Lt. has no conflicting feelings about morally; Because he sees all his and the Equalists' actions as an "end justify the means" taken to the extreme. His blind loyalty to the movement is what makes him that much more an intimidating opponent. No matter how many times he's knocked down, he's going to keep coming back until he sees the Revolution fulfilled.  
« Last Edit: Feb 28, 2013 03:15 pm by Avatar Lizzy » Logged


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« Reply #23 on: Feb 28, 2013 01:35 am »

But also, Lt. he only hesitates slightly before turning on Amon for being a closet bender. That took guts.

Do you see any parallels between Lt. Jee and Lt. Anonymous? Maybe I'm just imagining them.
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« Reply #24 on: Mar 03, 2013 07:34 pm »

Aw c'mon, Long Feng got more style than those Council punks...

Well, Amon is sort-of more interesting than Ozai. Not becuase of his cry story 'when he was a kid,etc' but because he is much more intimidating. He is kinda creepy, sinister, furtive and at the same time can make an entire city (its supporters,etc) as fools, before having his identity revealed.

Ozai is technically speaking, a buff guy with cool clothing (chinese emperor armor/clothing) and that's it. Nothing more, speicially if Azula wasn't there to strike down the avatar, coup inside Ba sing se,etc etc.

I dislike Amon's methodology, as it involves much more 'contact' with the common people of 'that' city, but rallying people to some dumb ideal is what makes war nowadays right?? heh ^_^
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