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Author Topic: The Search Part 2 - Speculation (DO NOT post spoilers for Part 2!)  (Read 179789 times)
Singe
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« Reply #4275 on: Mar 27, 2013 03:07 am »


If Ursa and Ikem were going to do it, then right after they got engaged before she got home. They were going to get married. The proposal was in a heat of a moment. Ikem was very strong about kissing Ursa. Time changed from day to night.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 03:10 am by Singe » Logged
Gundleer
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« Reply #4276 on: Mar 27, 2013 03:11 am »

Another piece of useless speculation, Azula's eye's when she becomes unbalanced are very reminiscent of the eye markings on the Wolf and Insect's wings. Smiley

I'm loving the speculation, It's all we have got until July, so it's a great football to throw around (or Kick, I'm English and our footballs tend to be booted about). At the very least (after I actually thought it through, Initially I hated it) The "Zuko is not Ozai's child" is a great plot device to force Zuko to re-evaluate his family and his place in it and if and when he confronts Azula about it, to force them to face their anger, jealousy and bitterness at one another and their parents.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 03:19 am by Gundleer » Logged

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« Reply #4277 on: Mar 27, 2013 03:33 am »


If Ursa and Ikem were going to do it, then right after they got engaged before she got home. They were going to get married. The proposal was in a heat of a moment. Ikem was very strong about kissing Ursa. Time changed from day to night.

Like I've said before, the question is all a matter of whether Nick would feel comfortable actually letting the story say they did it.

And Zuko being led into doubt by Ursa's grammar isn't really evidence the story will say they did it because Zuko doesn't know the context of the letter or who Ikem is or even how his mother and father first met. So, the truth is the story isn't even suggesting that Ursa and Ikem consummated their love by having Zuko confused about his parentage. Zuko's not thinking that his mother must have slept with Ikem before going after Ikem proposed to her. He's asking himself "Who the hell is Ikem and why does mom say 'our son' in this letter when she's addressing him?" The whole point of showing us the context of the letter through flashbacks was so we wouldn't jump to so many conclusions. But because many of us here and on sites like tumblr are older, we can more easily imagine a situation where Ursa could have gotten pregnant before marrying Ozai, but even then it's kind of a stretch because the portrayal of Ursa's character doesn't even suggest she would have slept with Ikem before just marrying him anyway later during the week or month.

Edit: On this note I must ask, does it even make sense for her to feel like she needs to sleep with Ikem when she's just gonna marry him soon anyway? It's not like she foresaw they'd be separated. If that were the case, then the theory would have more weight. 
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 03:37 am by Spirit of Flame » Logged

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« Reply #4278 on: Mar 27, 2013 03:34 am »

I know for sure Azula is Ozai's daughter. They look like each other, so much that in the series they changes via their similar faces.

So does Zuko. I think Azula tends to look a lot more like Ursa, the difference being her hair, Azula has a widows peak (as does Zuko) Like Ozai. But if you look Ikem also has a widows peak, and a couple of loose hairs in front of his forehead. I've only noticed it in this book (never in the show) but Azula has started to have a couple of loose hairs in a similar position at various points. Mainly when she's lost control. Zuko does not. Could well just be a coincidence.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 06:05 am by Gundleer » Logged

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Singe
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« Reply #4279 on: Mar 27, 2013 04:01 am »


If Ursa and Ikem were going to do it, then right after they got engaged before she got home. They were going to get married. The proposal was in a heat of a moment. Ikem was very strong about kissing Ursa. Time changed from day to night.

Like I've said before, the question is all a matter of whether Nick would feel comfortable actually letting the story say they did it.

And Zuko being led into doubt by Ursa's grammar isn't really evidence the story will say they did it because Zuko doesn't know the context of the letter or who Ikem is or even how his mother and father first met. So, the truth is the story isn't even suggesting that Ursa and Ikem consummated their love by having Zuko confused about his parentage. Zuko's not thinking that his mother must have slept with Ikem before going after Ikem proposed to her. He's asking himself "Who the hell is Ikem and why does mom say 'our son' in this letter when she's addressing him?" The whole point of showing us the context of the letter through flashbacks was so we wouldn't jump to so many conclusions. But because many of us here and on sites like tumblr are older, we can more easily imagine a situation where Ursa could have gotten pregnant before marrying Ozai, but even then it's kind of a stretch because the portrayal of Ursa's character doesn't even suggest she would have slept with Ikem before just marrying him anyway later during the week or month.

Edit: On this note I must ask, does it even make sense for her to feel like she needs to sleep with Ikem when she's just gonna marry him soon anyway? It's not like she foresaw they'd be separated. If that were the case, then the theory would have more weight.  

The engagement is a grey area that satisfies just enough for them to pull this other father story plot and it's the simplest answer. I think they ran this idea by Nick first and compromised on how exactly they could make it work.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 04:03 am by Singe » Logged
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« Reply #4280 on: Mar 27, 2013 06:15 am »

Yes they are certainly cutting it close "Huum how do we imply she copulated, without actually implying she copulated?" I personally think it all misdirection and that zuko (and azula's) father is Ozai, if not it trashes much of what we know about the show's mythos and... well there is a reason soap opera are not respected.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 06:19 am by FOXP2 » Logged
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« Reply #4281 on: Mar 27, 2013 07:08 am »

Here is the line not crossed by kids shows:
--------------------------
See Mike and Brian:
Jump over it
Skip rope with it
Twist it
Limbo under it.

Nothing from these guys would surprise me anymore.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 07:10 am by proudinfidel » Logged
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« Reply #4282 on: Mar 27, 2013 07:25 am »

^ Well, if someone had told me we'd see some of the stuff we saw, I wouldn't have believed it. But that's not necessaily a GOOD thing XD
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 09:48 am by nukilik » Logged
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« Reply #4283 on: Mar 27, 2013 07:34 am »

Well this story which was Azula's big return, what are we all talking about, who is Zuko's father? Zuko has done it again, he has stolen Azula's spotlight. LOL
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 08:13 am by fireywaters » Logged

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« Reply #4284 on: Mar 27, 2013 08:05 am »

Not for me!  The raving psychotic is far more interesting in my opinion. I freaking love Azula in this comic!
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« Reply #4285 on: Mar 27, 2013 08:57 am »

What if Ozai has that man greater than woman mentality. He always wanted a son that was able to live up to his standards. Zuko was weak but maybe he might toughen up. Azula is a girl despite all that she accomplished.

Seeing how he treats Ursa as property might ask the question of how he sees Azula.

I don't think Ozai is really sexist. Zuko is his son and he's a man. Fathers usually look to their sons to be the greatest reflections of themselves. Doesn't make them sexist or anything.

Also, the Fire Nation may offer more opportunity for women than other countries, but it's still traditionally a patriarchy. The first born son pretty much takes the throne like in almost any monarchy. Zuko's birthright was the throne and the only way Azula almost got it was by Zuko being taken out of the picture. The same would have been the case if she was a boy.

I also don't think he was really trying to belittle Ursa as "property." I think that's breathing a little too much into his statement because he happens to be a man saying that to a woman, but I don't think he sees her as just some "item." There's a difference between longing for somebody, not wanting to let them go and saying "Well, she's just a woman, I have every right over her being." The fact that Ozai kept all those letters suggest he may have been in love with her. He can still be a tad possessive of her without thinking less of her because she's a woman. These two states of mind aren't necessarily the same.

I bring this up for one reason. Where are the wives?

Azulon appears but his wife is no where. Iroh's wife is no where, but he has tendencies to flirt with younger women. Ozai banishes his wife. The only girl in the whole family is Azula.

Even if Azulon and Iroh wife are dead, it appears disturbing.

It is mentioned in "Zuko Alone" that Azulon's wife, Irah, died earlier.

I really do hope that neither Zuko or Azula are illegitment and that Nick, if Mike and Bryan even subjest the idea, that they vetoed it. My small worry is that Nick has let them get away with too much already, as others have mentioned. These seven months are going to be long in fandom. Not knowing for sure where they are going with this and the fan spectulation is bugging me.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 09:07 am by colle » Logged
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« Reply #4286 on: Mar 27, 2013 09:23 am »

I really don't think Bryke go that far for a cartoon... have you seen Superjail, Venture Brothers, those Animes from japan that involve a bus load of school girls and a demon with like 50 slimy throbbing tentacles? Heck even if we negate most of the violence and sex, ATLA or LOK are only just good enough to spit-shine Cowboy Bebops boots! Sure Bryke have put a foot over the line by Nick standards and it appears they are trying ever way they can to stick their foot out further without it getting run over: insinuating teen play doctor behind closed tent flaps, the pathetic brothers suicide at the end of LOK, what ever tarrlok's assistant was, etc, now going soap opera with Zuko the possible love child? Its... well its childish, it really is not adult usage of adult subject matter for REAL drama and tension, its adult subject matter for attention and not much more.  
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nukilik
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« Reply #4287 on: Mar 27, 2013 09:58 am »

^ Again,

Adult stuff=/=Good narrative

Kid stuff=/=Bad narrative

The fact that they're adding mature subjects doesn't mean they're handling them well. What made ATLA good for me wasn't just how many adult' themes there was, but rather that it was simply a good story with really good characters IMO. I'd rather have a tighter story and clearer character arcs without all that stuff then a supposedly 'adult' mess.


I'm still hoping this letter will have a point other then drama. Otherwise this sucks Sad
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 11:32 am by nukilik » Logged
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« Reply #4288 on: Mar 27, 2013 10:28 am »

Not for me!  The raving psychotic is far more interesting in my opinion. I freaking love Azula in this comic!

i know! a bit off topic, but i read your story about Azula finding a wild sky bison, and upon reading the part in The Search where she talked to her mother's hallucination in the water, it reminded me of your fanfic, where the same thing happens! good job! Grin

I'm still hoping this letter will have a point other then drama. Otherwise this sucks Sad

i'M hoping for some epic trolling in the letter than have it proven true that Zuko is illegitimate. i don't care if The Search sucks as a consequence; i want Zuko to be Ozai's son in the end! Sad
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« Reply #4289 on: Mar 27, 2013 11:07 am »

Thanks, I'm glad you liked my version of Azula's redemption. Currently working on another one involving Dominatia (Azula's therapy bison)

I am also hoping for a point to this letter. My guess is that its something Ozai concocted to build more angst and troll his kids  But ehh, who knows at this point.
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« Reply #4290 on: Mar 27, 2013 12:38 pm »

^ Again,

Adult stuff=/=Good narrative

Kid stuff=/=Bad narrative

The fact that they're adding mature subjects doesn't mean they're handling them well. What made ATLA good for me wasn't just how many adult' themes there was, but rather that it was simply a good story with really good characters IMO. I'd rather have a tighter story and clearer character arcs without all that stuff then a supposedly 'adult' mess.

My point can be construed with your logic as "handling adult themes childishly = Bad Narration"

Quote
I'm still hoping this letter will have a point other then drama. Otherwise this sucks Sad

Yes I can agree with that.
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nukilik
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« Reply #4291 on: Mar 27, 2013 02:50 pm »

^ Again,

Adult stuff=/=Good narrative

Kid stuff=/=Bad narrative

The fact that they're adding mature subjects doesn't mean they're handling them well. What made ATLA good for me wasn't just how many adult' themes there was, but rather that it was simply a good story with really good characters IMO. I'd rather have a tighter story and clearer character arcs without all that stuff then a supposedly 'adult' mess.

My point can be construed with your logic as "handling adult themes childishly = Bad Narration"

Exactly. I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just throwing my two cents and how they related to what you said. I got what you meant Smiley
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« Reply #4292 on: Mar 27, 2013 02:59 pm »

Well, its my opinion that some adult themes (love triangle, #cough, cough#) were handled very poorly in Korra.  I seriously hope that doesn't happen in The Search  Tongue
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« Reply #4293 on: Mar 27, 2013 03:22 pm »

Skip having a second comic, establish a talk show setup, and put Sokka as the host. Then Jerry Springer the whole Ursa moment reveal truth about who's baby daddy is who. Ikem and Ozai get into a scuffle. Azula tries to attack Ursa and Katara gets in the way her to fight her, no bending. Aang tries to calm the ruckus down but gets knocked out by Cabbage Man smashing him with a chair. Crowd chants, "Sokka!"
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« Reply #4294 on: Mar 27, 2013 03:30 pm »



Skip having a second comic, establish a talk show setup, and put Sokka as the host. Then Jerry Springer the whole Ursa moment reveal truth about who's baby daddy is who. Ikem and Ozai get into a scuffle. Azula tries to attack Ursa and Katara gets in the way her to fight her, no bending. Aang tries to calm the ruckus down but gets knocked out by Cabbage Man smashing him with a chair. Crowd chants, "Sokka!"

Security doesn't stand a chance. Wink
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« Reply #4295 on: Mar 27, 2013 04:24 pm »

Skip having a second comic, establish a talk show setup, and put Sokka as the host. Then Jerry Springer the whole Ursa moment reveal truth about who's baby daddy is who. Ikem and Ozai get into a scuffle. Azula tries to attack Ursa and Katara gets in the way her to fight her, no bending. Aang tries to calm the ruckus down but gets knocked out by Cabbage Man smashing him with a chair. Crowd chants, "Sokka!"



Like this?
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Singe
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« Reply #4296 on: Mar 27, 2013 06:52 pm »

^
Yeah. It's a shot of Azula's reaction, also.

« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 07:42 pm by Singe » Logged
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« Reply #4297 on: Mar 27, 2013 07:02 pm »

I think it's possible, but there's actually no evidence in the cartoon whatsoever.

And there's no evidence Iroh was considered weaker than Ozai. But again, Iroh's the one with medals under his belt. So far, the only medal we've ever seen Ozai receive is Ursa.

So? Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. That's my point, that your "headcanon" isn't the only possible legitimate interpretation of what we were shown.

The fact of the matter remains that Iroh is the only one we've seen to have possessed any amount of respect or fear from others without being Fire Lord. Meanwhile, the only time we've ever seen Ozai receive any amount of respect is after he became Fire Lord and we still haven't seen him do anything great before becoming king except burning some practice dummies and getting Ursa knocked up. And Azulon shows him little to no respect in the flashbacks. The closest he gets is the scene with Ursa, in which he never even addresses Ozai personally.

But we can easily turn all of that around on Iroh. The only time we've seen Iroh get any kind of respect is after he retired, and only from a bunch of exiles like Zuko's crew. We never saw Iroh do anything great before Zuko's exile; in fact, the only thing we know about Iroh's career is a phenomenal failure that left him completely dishonored. Azulon shows no respect to Iroh in any flashback, aside possibly from some nebulous statement about the importance of birth order in heirs.

There's just no evidence that Azulon favored Iroh as anything but The One Who Was Born First.

For his own gain, we don't know why exactly he chose Ozai instead of Iroh, but the one other flashback we have of Azulon and Ozai doesn't suggest he admires Ozai over Iroh. Granted, he may have seen Ozai as possessing great strength in his own right, but that doesn't mean he saw him as competent or skilled or better.

Nor does it mean he doesn't. It's that whole "lack of evidence" thing. It means it can go both ways. And considering that this comic is already trying to make us think that it will completely upend Zuko's character arc by making him an illegitimate child of Ursa's who didn't inherit Sozin's legacy and was abused by his father solely for being a sign of his wife's infidelity, I don't think you can argue that we need to stick to your read of the intent of the original scenes and story.

As to Azulon's mourning for Lu Ten. While we see no real signs of remorse for Lu Ten, he acknowledges Iroh's suffering and finds Ozai's request immediately after Lu Ten's death insulting:

"You dare suggest I betray Iroh? My first born? Directly after the demise of his only beloved son? I think Iroh has suffered enough, but you...your punishment has scarcely begun!"

Two things seem clear here:

1.)Azulon was likely going to give the throne to Iroh anyway, regardless of Lu Ten's death since to take the birthright away from Iroh was "betrayal" in his mind, regardless of the circumstances.

...yeah? That doesn't mean he favors Iroh over Ozai, he just respects how things are supposed to be. You make your first born heir, you don't steal something from someone immediately after their whole world was collapsed, and you don't make requests with a timing that suggests you believe the guy you're requesting things from is going to kick the bucket soon. Grin

2.)The death of his grandson and the shame of his second son is well worth the price for insulting Iroh and Azulon himself as far as the old Fire Lord is concerned.

...yeah? We are talking about a dude who's perpetrating a war of conquest and ethnic cleansing who comes from a warrior culture. I don't think this is as big a deal as you're making it out. Azulon looked like he never even met his grandchildren before, and he certainly didn't seem impressed by Zuko.

Nothing suggests that Azulon would have ever considered giving the throne to anyone else but Iroh, although he appears to have known why Ozai wanted to see him.

I'm not saying that Ozai had a shot. I'm saying that he didn't necessarily value Iroh any more than Ozai aside from the order-of-birth thing. Which is the rule of the land.

You really need to read what I'm typing and not go off on why your headcanon works.

Ozai cited Iroh's loss of his son and his abandonment of the Siege as proof that Iroh did not deserve the throne any longer, but there is nothing to suggest that Iroh had a history of failure.

Nor is there anything to suggest that Iroh had anything more than a mediocre career. Again, "lack of evidence is not evidence of lack."

There is much more to suggest that Iroh had a long history of success since characters who know his past tend to speak of him as being a legend before his failure.

Actually, if you go back and actually look, no one but Jee and one Earth Kingdom soldier refers to Iroh as anyone but the guy who lost Ba Sing Se. Literally, Jee simply says "esteemed," and the Earth Kingdom guy says (very sarcastically) "the once great." Keep in mind, the Fire Nation is a giant propaganda machine, and would likely hype up the Crown Prince leading and army out to conquer the capital of the enemy nation. I'm sure Iroh was hyped up, and probably even had some talent and a lack of major failure. But he probably also given all the best troops, all the resources he needed, and of course had the ear of the Fire Lord himself.

Iroh was possibly the most over-hyped military leader the Fire Nation ever had, a mediocre commander who couldn't deliver when things got tough.

And, certainly, Azulon said nothing to indicate he bought into that hype.

We don't have anything comparable with Ozai. Perhaps there's nothing to suggest that Ozai was a big screw up, I'll give that. The fact that Azulon was willing to give him Ursa to create his master race suggests he at least saw some potential in his second son, if only to just make strong descendants who could eventually marry their cousins.

This is good.

But he could have considered Iroh for the job first, which is entirely possible since Iroh was going to take the throne and Azulon sees this as not being up for debate.

It's possible, I'll definitely give you that. But it's also possible that, because the point was to create powerful Firebender babies, Azulon honed in on Ozai because Ozai was possibly the better and stronger Firebender.

But Iroh could have still been married or his wife could have just recently passed.

Possible, far from definite.

Since Azulon cares so much about Iroh's feelings it seems, he probably would have thought it improper to ask Iroh, who would have only within the last few years had a son with his wife at the time or who could have lost his wife and may have still been shooken up, to take another woman.

You string together a good story, but at this point you're doing what I'm doing- taking tidbits that can be interpreted in various ways (and assuming that Iroh's wife wasn't already ten years in the ground) and making up a story that's merely possible.

I'm not sure why you're so intent on bashing any other theories. It's not really in the spirit of "discussion," you know?

It's possible that Iroh could have been a slacker or not very talented when he was younger and that Azulon sent him into battle to shape him up, sure,

Thank you.

but the idea that Iroh was seen as bringing shame upon his family and was just a Zuko-tier failure in Azulon's eyes doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, if any.

Well, how do you define "Zuko-tier?" I'm talking Zuko before he got banished, since Iroh obviously did nothing to merit being banished. I'm just saying it was possible that Iroh was a weak Firebender who only got better later in life, long after a Crown Prince would have been expected to, and had an unremarkable military career up until he convinced his father and some political allies to back his "grand adventure" to Ba Sing Se.

Azulon is still willing to give the throne to Iroh even after Iroh lost his son and abandoned the campaign against the EK capital. He wouldn't be willing to do that if Iroh's recent disgrace was just a colossal failure to him.

I'm not sure what you're saying. It was a colossal failure. Are you saying that Azulon didn't care about Ba Sing Se at all?

Iroh at least, in Azulon's mind, well deserves his birthright

By virtue of being first born. Nothing more is said.

and Azulon sympathizes with his loss.

So? I'm not saying he hated Iroh, just that he didn't consider Iroh his special flower?

Ozai must have shown some promise for Azulon to think it'd be worth it to give him Ursa and so there is a possibility that in terms of skills as a Firebender he could been Iroh's equal or even his superior, but Azulon still saw Iroh as fit to rule, even without descendants.

No, he saw Iroh as having a right to rule. You know, "birthright?" Big difference.

Iroh could have been weaker than Ozai, but he must have at least shown better leadership skills or had plenty of successes that even if Ozai was more powerful and more intelligent, coupled with Iroh's birthright it still made Iroh more than capable of being Fire Lord.

This is all supposition, but I'm really not sure what point you're driving at here. Nothing here suggests that Azulon liked Iroh better throughout their lives. He was upset with Ozai for one really stupid move. All parents get really upset with their kids at some point.

Perhaps calling Ozai "second rate," is not right, but he'd have to be at least "second best" in Azulon's eyes for some reason.

See, this is where you go off the cliff and start making junk up with no evidence. You yourself said that Iroh had the birthright thing going for him. If Azulon favored both sons equally, and then Iroh had the birthright, that's enough to explain everyone's actions and dialogue.

By Azulon's standards, Iroh was perfectly suited to be Fire Lord even after his failure at Ba Sing Se and Ozai was not.

Again, you're making junk up. Iroh was suited to be Fire Lord, but not necessarily perfectly, and nothing ever indicated that Azulon didn't think Ozai wasn't suited. Just that he didn't want to overturn the birthright.

Either Ozai was "good, but not great," or he was better than Iroh, but Azulon just liked Iroh better.

Or, hey, both guys were good or great, and Iroh was born first.

WHAT A TWIST. Roll Eyes

But Iroh being a total screw-up just doesn't make sense.

I never said "total screw-up." Just that he had his share of weaknesses and that they were apparent.

I'm getting the sense that you're a big fan of extreme opinions. Cheesy It's okay, I've been known to indulge, myself.

The real second best son, but still the most loved one? Sure, that could work. Ozai could be the better one, but his talents just go unused or unrecognized because Azulon likes Iroh's character better. I could see that.

Yeah, I don't know what you even think I was proposing, before.
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[Roku] tried to push the conflict [with Sozin] out of mind instead of confronting it before it spiraled out of control. (In a way, his style of being Avatar was a lot like Mako's style of handling romantic conflicts xD
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« Reply #4298 on: Mar 27, 2013 10:59 pm »

^ ^ ^

If you're going to respond to any of my posts, you don't need to break them up in so many quotes like that in order to address each point or idea I bring up. I have a feeling you might just be doing that so its harder to respond to any of your own posts. Either way, it's bit of an eyesore and kind of a waste of space if you have a lot to say. I'm sorry if I misunderstand. Undecided


I'm not really arguing that your theory of Iroh being the less powerful one isn't possible. It's quite possible. But the impression I got from your theory was that you were saying that Iroh was to Ozai what Zuko was to Azula, that is that Iroh was seen as something of a failure in Azulon's eyes like Zuko was in his father's, and that the actual odds of this being the case were somehow in great favor of it. Again, I apologize if I misunderstood. I just think it's easier to infer that Iroh was always kind of seen as the "successful one." This doesn't mean that Azulon didn't recognize Ozai's potential for greatness, but so far Ozai has no real honors besides his marriage and we've never actually seen or heard of him ever doing anything of significance, unlike his brother.

Also, we know that if the first borns screw up bad enough, the Fire Lord can disown them and revoke their birth rights. The fact that Azulon still refuses to revoke Iroh's birth right even though he has every right to and even though Iroh failed at Ba Sing Se is very telling, especially when we remember how Ozai banished and disowned his own first born son for far less and nobody questioned his right to do so. Azulon at least respected and liked Iroh enough that he didn't feel his failure warranted taking away his birth right and giving it to Ozai and he clearly empathizes with Iroh's "suffering," that he doesn't want to add insult to injury by "betraying," him. Iroh still meets Azulon's standards to keep his birthright, even though he is free to revoke it at anytime for whatever reasons he sees fit, and that's what matters. And the fact that Azulon was still going to let Iroh keep his birthright suggests that Ozai may have lacked something Iroh had that Azulon seemed to have valued. It's not like Azulon's compelled by outside pressure to give the throne to the firstborn son, he's the one who deems the firstborn to be worthy or unworthy of his birthright. And Azulon's firstborn must have done something for him that made him say that he still deserved his birthright even after the big failure at Ba Sing Se. Perhaps it was just that Azulon felt sorry for Iroh, but then why does Azulon feel no problem having his grandson killed by his own father if he is so kindhearted?

I guess my only point is that Iroh still met Azulon's standards for Fire Lord after Ba Sing Se and nothing really stopped Azulon from taking away Iroh's birthright if he wanted to. So why didn't he want to? One of the only answers I can come up with is that Iroh was possibly Azulon's favorite. Why would he be the favorite? I'm not sure, but it could possibly be that Iroh was considered a greater success. The other possibility could be that Azulon didn't play favorites, but something about Ozai still rubbed Azulon the wrong way, even if he acknowledged Ozai was superior to Iroh in power and intellect or acknowledged that Iroh had always been a bit of a handful. Perhaps Ozai didn't possess what Azulon saw to be good leadership qualities or perhaps Azulon saw that Ozai was a little too ambitious and arrogant for his own good and that even someone like his royal tea-sucking kookiness was a safer bet. This would make him giving Ursa to Ozai to create the "legendary bloodline," but his unwillingness to revoke Iroh's birthright make sense too. Ozai is powerful and skilled, much more than his older brother and enough to make super powerful heirs to the throne, but Ozai himself is unpredictable and reckless.
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 11:19 pm by Spirit of Flame » Logged

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« Reply #4299 on: Mar 27, 2013 11:54 pm »

 Ozai kind of strikes me as a feral dog with a grudge against the world.  Zuko will be better off if he cuts ties with the man.
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