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Author Topic: Did you think Korra was thinking about committing suicide?  (Read 18060 times)
ViridianIV
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« Reply #275 on: Jun 11, 2013 12:01 pm »


They used energybending to solve the problem anyway.  And season two is going to show the world anyway.  So instead of instant gratification cheapening the effects of what Amon did, why not combine the two and have Korra work for her happy ending? 

How is that a rehash?  Korra isn't Aang, she wouldn't be relearning anything.  Yeah, she can only airbend, but she's not a natural airbender, so she has to continue to learn about it, and maybe utilize techniques from the other bending disciplines with her airbending.  It doesn't even have to be a whole season on that.  And while she is traveling the world, it's not for its own sake.  We could show Tahno and/or Lin struggling to deal with the loss of their bending, and their hope, or lack thereof, in the Avatar's mission.  And we could still weave in the spirit story lines. 

See?  Everything's the same, except for a deus ex Aang that a lot of people felt took away from the gravitas of the finale.  Or just not have her lose her bending in the first place if they don't have the guts to go through with it.  Either way.   Tongue

Korra DID work for her happy ending.  She ended a tyrant.  Amon's efforts were 'cheapened' because he was a villain.  A selfish, irrational human being whose efforts more than likely continue to be felt throughout Republic City throughout the remainder of the show, however that does not mean that he deserves some kind of lineage.  The only thing that a terrorist like him 'deserves' is to be forgotten, which he wont be so make of that what you will.  Korra fought a loosing battle throughout the ENTIRE series, she didn't give up, she did everything she could given all the information she knew, I understand the dissatisfaction with the brevity of the ending, it could have been done better, but that doesn't somehow make Korra 'undeserving' of her happy ending, because she earned it, more so than most of us with happy endings.

The showrunners have already expressed that while a few episodes will deal outside RC the bulk of the season will still take place there so they will not be 'showcasing' the world the same way as ATLA, and they would HAVE to if Korra needed to be on a 'learn the elements' main quest.  No it doesn't have to take up the whole season (Though it would have to in order to quiet all the voices who believe Korra hasn't earned her bending), yes the character details will be different and we'd learn a few things about how the world works now in this age, BUT that doesn't change that the goal for however many episodes is now essentially TLA lite.  There problem is that there isnt anything to be gained in telling that story that we as the viewer didn't already get in the last series.  I guarantee if that became the plot thread there would soon be topics questioning the decision and midway through the season questioning if the retread was necessary.  The show universe as a whole has so much more to offer us in examining a fully realized avatar now, than it does showcasing an airbender learning (or re-learning in this case) the other three elements.... again.
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« Reply #276 on: Jun 11, 2013 12:11 pm »

The showrunners have already expressed that while a few episodes will deal outside RC the bulk of the season will still take place there so they will not be 'showcasing' the world the same way as ATLA, and they would HAVE to if Korra needed to be on a 'learn the elements' main quest.  No it doesn't have to take up the whole season (Though it would have to in order to quiet all the voices who believe Korra hasn't earned her bending), yes the character details will be different and we'd learn a few things about how the world works now in this age, BUT that doesn't change that the goal for however many episodes is now essentially TLA lite.  There problem is that there isnt anything to be gained in telling that story that we as the viewer didn't already get in the last series.  I guarantee if that became the plot thread there would soon be topics questioning the decision and midway through the season questioning if the retread was necessary.  The show universe as a whole has so much more to offer us in examining a fully realized avatar now, than it does showcasing an airbender learning (or re-learning in this case) the other three elements.... again.

Korra regaining her bending doesn't necessarily mean she has to "relearn" them. She already knows how to use the 3 elements, it's just a matter of overcoming her "block". That could've been done in countless ways if the creators tried. One way is she goes on a spiritual journey to unlock the Avatar State and in turn breaks the block. We could have the main plot with the spirits tied along with it.

It's only a matter of exercising your creativity.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #277 on: Jun 11, 2013 12:25 pm »


Korra regaining her bending doesn't necessarily mean she has to "relearn" them. She already knows how to use the 3 elements, it's just a matter of overcoming her "block". That could've been done in countless ways if the creators tried. One way is she goes on a spiritual journey to unlock the Avatar State and in turn breaks the block. We could have the main plot with the spirits tied along with it.

It's only a matter of exercising your creativity.

Granted, there probably ARE ways to at least keep it from feeling familiar, but I still feel like there is more for the show to do with Korra as 'THE Avatar' and fully operational, than with her crippled going forward.  The alternative just feels like to much of a step backward.
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« Reply #278 on: Jun 11, 2013 05:29 pm »

Korra tried to murder Tarrllokk. Well, okay, she just might have been intending to horribly maim the guy, but given that no immediate medical experts were around to provide treatment, the resulting shock might have killed him.

We don't know all of what Kyoshi was up to, we don't know anything more about her except that she came and stopped Chin.  For all we know Kyoshi was ending slavery in the Norther Water Tribe and just didn't get the word on Chin until she got back.  What we DO know is that when she went to work, she told him to sit down and shut up and 'this is how it is' and when called upon to account for it she basically said 'yeah I did it, suck it up' and those seem to be the points of the story the showrunners intended for decisions about her character to be made.

At the same time, it's not the only evidence we have to extrapolate Kyoshi's character from. We see the way she spared Chin's followers; we see the way Kyoshi Island worships her memory, which would have been odd if she had been a dictator to them; we see the way she's blunt but helpful to Aang, and doesn't try to pressure him or offer anything more than her advice and opinion.

And, really, if the storytellers wanted it clear that Kyoshi would have smacked Chin down after he conquered his first village but was too busy saving orphan puppies in the Fire Nation at the time, they could have put hints of that in there. They didn't. Ergo, they want us to understand something based on that.

Unless you can speak for the storytellers, I don't think you can say what was intended. ATLA might have been half an hour, but there were a total of 61 episodes. If they wanted it clear that Kyoshi was a black-and-white Knight Templar and not just someone who didn't mince words and felt responsible for collateral damage, then there was more than ample room in which to sneak a throwaway line.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #279 on: Jun 12, 2013 02:27 pm »

At the same time, it's not the only evidence we have to extrapolate Kyoshi's character from. We see the way she spared Chin's followers; we see the way Kyoshi Island worships her memory, which would have been odd if she had been a dictator to them; we see the way she's blunt but helpful to Aang, and doesn't try to pressure him or offer anything more than her advice and opinion.

And, really, if the storytellers wanted it clear that Kyoshi would have smacked Chin down after he conquered his first village but was too busy saving orphan puppies in the Fire Nation at the time, they could have put hints of that in there. They didn't. Ergo, they want us to understand something based on that.

Unless you can speak for the storytellers, I don't think you can say what was intended. ATLA might have been half an hour, but there were a total of 61 episodes. If they wanted it clear that Kyoshi was a black-and-white Knight Templar and not just someone who didn't mince words and felt responsible for collateral damage, then there was more than ample room in which to sneak a throwaway line.

I'm not the show runners your right, but I DO have a lot of knowledge when it comes to narrative direction and story building.  Your wrong to think that 61 episodes of a half an hour show allows them all the time in the world to get everything they might like across.  Yes that gives them Thirty some hours of material, but that material is primarily dealing with Aang and the present.  Fitting in errata content is NOT simple.  You have to deal with where it all fits.  Obviously you can't slam Kyoshi into every old story anywhere.  She can only fit in episodes that concern her or make sense to include her  to begin with.  As the show is primarily Aang's story, that means that even an episode that does feature her still needs to be primarily based upon Aang, team Avatar and forward the plot of the week, slip in to much extraneous material and you lose narrative focus which is noted by the viewership in all sorts of unanticipated ways even if they don't realize it.

The previous Avatars were not often elaborated on.  Roku got the most attention because he was the most relevant, Kyoshi less so, and Avatars before her less and less.  I can obviously only take what I'm shown and build my opinions on that, and from what I saw I was given the impression that Kyoshi was indicated to be a strict "My way or the highway" Avatar just as Kuric was indicated to be a lazy do-nothing.  Just as I was given the impression that Lin was a great chief of police despite giving up to quickly and Tenzin is a great Airbender despite getting his but kicked continuously.

The challenges of telling your story in thirty minute segments (or in 12 episodes for that matter but there is another discussion entirely) should not be brushed off quite as haphazardly as I sometimes feel they are.

As for Korra attempting to "murder" Tarrlok, I cannot possibly comprehend where that assumption comes from.  She went up there to talk to him Avatar to man.  This is no different than when Roku went to speak with Sozin and they fought.  There is no evidence that murder or even maiming was intended.  Tarrlok was the one who attacked after his feelings got hurt for being compared to Amon.  Avatars talk to people they disagree with, it happens literally all the time, and murder has never been on any of their minds.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 02:54 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #280 on: Jun 12, 2013 04:16 pm »

As for Korra attempting to "murder" Tarrlok, I cannot possibly comprehend where that assumption comes from.  She went up there to talk to him Avatar to man.  This is no different than when Roku went to speak with Sozin and they fought.  There is no evidence that murder or even maiming was intended.  Tarrlok was the one who attacked after his feelings got hurt for being compared to Amon.  Avatars talk to people they disagree with, it happens literally all the time, and murder has never been on any of their minds.

She didn't go there intending to kill him, but she was way out of control once it started and clearly wanted to hurt him.  When Tarrlok bloodbent her, she was inches away from setting his face on fire, while still convinced that he was disarmed.

For my part, I can't comprehend how one could miss her murderous rage.  =P
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #281 on: Jun 12, 2013 06:15 pm »

As for Korra attempting to "murder" Tarrlok, I cannot possibly comprehend where that assumption comes from.  She went up there to talk to him Avatar to man.  This is no different than when Roku went to speak with Sozin and they fought.  There is no evidence that murder or even maiming was intended.  Tarrlok was the one who attacked after his feelings got hurt for being compared to Amon.  Avatars talk to people they disagree with, it happens literally all the time, and murder has never been on any of their minds.

She didn't go there intending to kill him, but she was way out of control once it started and clearly wanted to hurt him.  When Tarrlok bloodbent her, she was inches away from setting his face on fire, while still convinced that he was disarmed.

For my part, I can't comprehend how one could miss her murderous rage.  =P

Um... no.  Just no.  Ignoring the fact that once somebody attacks you with razor ice shards intended  to cut you into ribbons they deserve whatever is coming to them, I guarantee that was not the intended message.  In Avatar-verse fire is often shown to smack people, knock them down and cause no actual burn damage unless it's pretty much a focused burn.  People are thrown into walls by arcs of flame ALL the time on these shows, heck pro bending makes a sport out of it, Korra was just moving in for the knockout punch (and if he got a scar for it maybe he'd have learned a good lesson / a Martyr Tarrlok isn't)  I can't see how anybody could take that scene and assume Korra was there to 'murder' him.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 06:26 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #282 on: Jun 12, 2013 06:42 pm »

Tarrllokk is clearly defeated at the end of the fight (because Korra didn't know he was a Bloodbender), and yet she was clearly still acting in a threatening manner and even moved like she was going to continue the fight. I think the message was pretty clear that she was going to Ozai his Zuko butt.

Ikkin and I usually disagree on how to interpret what was on the screen, but this is one scene where we've agreed completely from the beginning.
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« Reply #283 on: Jun 12, 2013 06:46 pm »

As for Korra attempting to "murder" Tarrlok, I cannot possibly comprehend where that assumption comes from.  She went up there to talk to him Avatar to man.  This is no different than when Roku went to speak with Sozin and they fought.  There is no evidence that murder or even maiming was intended.  Tarrlok was the one who attacked after his feelings got hurt for being compared to Amon.  Avatars talk to people they disagree with, it happens literally all the time, and murder has never been on any of their minds.

She didn't go there intending to kill him, but she was way out of control once it started and clearly wanted to hurt him.  When Tarrlok bloodbent her, she was inches away from setting his face on fire, while still convinced that he was disarmed.

For my part, I can't comprehend how one could miss her murderous rage.  =P

Um... no.  Just no.  Ignoring the fact that once somebody attacks you with razor ice shards intended  to cut you into ribbons they deserve whatever is coming to them, I guarantee that was not the intended message.  In Avatar-verse fire is often shown to smack people, knock them down and cause no actual burn damage unless it's pretty much a focused burn.  People are thrown into walls by arcs of flame ALL the time on these shows, heck pro bending makes a sport out of it, Korra was just moving in for the knockout punch (and if he got a scar for it maybe he'd have learned a good lesson / a Martyr Tarrlok isn't)  I can't see how anybody could take that scene and assume Korra was there to 'murder' him.

Not unless you're in a scene where someone is coming in at the camera really fast with a load of fire in their hands. If I recall correctly, mostly every scene where there's a zoom in on someone running fast said camera with their hands building up with flames (so like...Zhao, Zuko, Azula, Ozai, etc.) is a scene where they intend to burn some part of their opponent's body off.
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« Reply #284 on: Jun 12, 2013 08:12 pm »

There is still absolutely no evidence to indicate that she was going to kill him or even seriously harm him.  I can't imagine how we can assume that Korra was going to ''smite' Tarrlok yet debate that she could be contemplating suicide during the final sequence. 
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« Reply #285 on: Jun 12, 2013 08:17 pm »

There is still absolutely no evidence to indicate that she was going to kill him or even seriously harm him.  I can't imagine how we can assume that Korra was going to ''smite' Tarrlok yet debate that she could be contemplating suicide during the final sequence.  

Context. Tarlok only did bloodbending to save his own life. Korra isn't Aang to where she'll spare anyone's life. Aang would have arrested him immediately at that point. Korra instead went in for the kill against a (as far as she knew) completely unarmed opponent. I'd say its safe to say she was either going to kill him or permanently immobilize him.
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ViridianIV
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« Reply #286 on: Jun 12, 2013 08:22 pm »

Context. Tarlok only did bloodbending to save his own life. Korra isn't Aang to where she'll spare anyone's life. Aang would have arrested him immediately at that point. Korra instead went in for the kill against a (as far as she knew) completely unarmed opponent. I'd say its safe to say she was either going to kill him or permanently immobilize him.

That's hardly context.  Tarrlok bloodbent to keep Korra from ruining his plans.  He still harbored a hope of hiding her away somewhere and keeping up his 'rule the city' plot which he can't accomplish from in jail, which Korra quite easily could have been moving to subdue him, like I said before, to knock him unconscious.  Korra has never been shown to have any sort of murderous impulses.  The fact that the only confirmable deaths in the show so far are suicides
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« Reply #287 on: Jun 12, 2013 08:23 pm »

A lot of times when people get in fights, the adrenaline takes over, and they act without really realizing what they're doing. Korra didn't go in there with the intention to kill, and I'm sure at no point did she think "I'm going to murderize this guy and burn his face off". It's more like the fight escalated to that point. It wasn't til Tarlock pulled out his bloodbending that they snapped out of it and realized the fight had gone that far.
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« Reply #288 on: Jun 12, 2013 08:28 pm »

A lot of times when people get in fights, the adrenaline takes over, and they act without really realizing what they're doing. Korra didn't go in there with the intention to kill, and I'm sure at no point did she think "I'm going to murderize this guy and burn his face off". It's more like the fight escalated to that point. It wasn't til Tarlock pulled out his bloodbending that they snapped out of it and realized the fight had gone that far.

That is still far from any indication that murder was EVER intended.  If Korra had burned him even the slightest bit, Tarrlok would have screamed in pain and she would have backed off.  If anybody seriously thinks otherwise they are completely misinterpreting her character.  At no point in that scene was anybody intending to kill anybody.  Even Tarrlok took Korra off to a cage rather than kill her.
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« Reply #289 on: Jun 12, 2013 08:49 pm »

A lot of times when people get in fights, the adrenaline takes over, and they act without really realizing what they're doing. Korra didn't go in there with the intention to kill, and I'm sure at no point did she think "I'm going to murderize this guy and burn his face off". It's more like the fight escalated to that point. It wasn't til Tarlock pulled out his bloodbending that they snapped out of it and realized the fight had gone that far.

I agree, Korra isn't Aang, she's a lot more powerful and impulsive and a lot less spiritual. I could see it getting to a point where she did kill someone, I'm sure it would destroy her emotionally, but things can get out of hand. Now as for the show actually show a main character taking another's life? I think that's still a bit intense for this show.

On topic, I did sort of get that sense when she reached the cliff, I didn't think she'd actually do it though. Even after I just thought it was in my head, it's interesting to see so many people had the same thought, it must have been intentional. I think, after the shocking double suicide scene with Amon and Tarlock, it puts you in that frame of mind. Now, that scene truly was shocking I never thought I'd see two Nickelodeon characters kill themselves on screen.
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« Reply #290 on: Jun 12, 2013 09:26 pm »

There is still absolutely no evidence to indicate that she was going to kill him or even seriously harm him.  I can't imagine how we can assume that Korra was going to ''smite' Tarrlok yet debate that she could be contemplating suicide during the final sequence.  

Absolutely none?



1. Tarrlok is on the floor. Korra has no reason to suspect that Tarrlok is a bloodbender, so for all intents and purposes, Tarrlok is on the floor near defeat.
2. In the screen shots before, Korra has a look of pure anger. She looks out of control and ready to destroy something.
3. Even if it's not necessarily her intention there's no question whatever she's doing is going to seriously hurt regardless of intent.

Is there any purpose to Korra continuing to fight other than to seriously wound/main/injure Tarrlok? There really isn't.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 09:28 pm by guyw1tn0nam3 » Logged

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« Reply #291 on: Jun 12, 2013 09:46 pm »

There is still absolutely no evidence to indicate that she was going to kill him or even seriously harm him.  I can't imagine how we can assume that Korra was going to ''smite' Tarrlok yet debate that she could be contemplating suicide during the final sequence.  

Absolutely none?



1. Tarrlok is on the floor. Korra has no reason to suspect that Tarrlok is a bloodbender, so for all intents and purposes, Tarrlok is on the floor near defeat.
2. In the screen shots before, Korra has a look of pure anger. She looks out of control and ready to destroy something.
3. Even if it's not necessarily her intention there's no question whatever she's doing is going to seriously hurt regardless of intent.

Is there any purpose to Korra continuing to fight other than to seriously wound/main/injure Tarrlok? There really isn't.

I stand by my statement.  I've seen the show, I know what happened.  Do I think Korra would have fire smashed Tarrlok right there, unquestionably.  Do I think she would have KILLED Tarrlok there, absolutely not.  People aren't little baloons that are going to pop, they aren't as frail as you think.  I'll admit Tarrlok could possibly have ended up with a burn somewhere (not that  he wouldn't have deserved it) but can you honestly tell me that you believe Korra would have blasted him with enough fire to completely immolate him, then leave him burning long enough to sustain deadly wounds?  Remember she's a fire bender so smothering those flames would take only a few seconds.  Undoubtedly Tarrlok would then be screaming in agony, are we assuming Korra will just leave him there like that 'Ha suck it Tarrlok, now your on fire Booyeah Team Avatar ROX!"

Korra wasn't going to murder anyone, and there is no evidence to support that she would.

Edit: As a side note we've seen people on this show take hits with more flame than what are in Korra's fists in that frame and come out of it perfectly fine.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 09:48 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #292 on: Jun 12, 2013 09:47 pm »

^

I mean it's fine to think that she's not going to kill the guy, but at the very least the intent is to cause some serious harm. Sometimes it's difficult calculating that if you get out of control.
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« Reply #293 on: Jun 12, 2013 09:52 pm »

^

I mean it's fine to think that she's not going to kill the guy, but at the very least the intent is to cause some serious harm. Sometimes it's difficult calculating that if you get out of control.

I am really still just not convinced he would take grievous injury if she had connected.  We see Avatar-verse characters take hits like this constantly.  As people have said elsewhere the Lieutenant falls huge distances, Aang looked like his friggin bones were being broken by Yakone.  Heck Iroh 2 was blasted out of his ship cabin by a missile and was perfectly fine when he woke up.
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« Reply #294 on: Jun 12, 2013 09:56 pm »

^

I mean it's fine to think that she's not going to kill the guy, but at the very least the intent is to cause some serious harm. Sometimes it's difficult calculating that if you get out of control.

I am really still just not convinced he would take grievous injury if she had connected.  We see Avatar-verse characters take hits like this constantly.  As people have said elsewhere the Lieutenant falls huge distances, Aang looked like his friggin bones were being broken by Yakone.  Heck Iroh 2 was blasted out of his ship cabin by a missile and was perfectly fine when he woke up.

I mean if we're operating under the assumption that people in the Avatar-verse are injury proof, then sure?

But even so, people in the Avatar world don't seem to know that, and if they intend on causing some serious harm, then it shows.

Fire is the worst of them all. Ozai just had to punch once for Zuko to be scarred forever.
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« Reply #295 on: Jun 12, 2013 10:08 pm »

^

I mean it's fine to think that she's not going to kill the guy, but at the very least the intent is to cause some serious harm. Sometimes it's difficult calculating that if you get out of control.

I am really still just not convinced he would take grievous injury if she had connected.  We see Avatar-verse characters take hits like this constantly.  As people have said elsewhere the Lieutenant falls huge distances, Aang looked like his friggin bones were being broken by Yakone.  Heck Iroh 2 was blasted out of his ship cabin by a missile and was perfectly fine when he woke up.

I mean if we're operating under the assumption that people in the Avatar-verse are injury proof, then sure?

But even so, people in the Avatar world don't seem to know that, and if they intend on causing some serious harm, then it shows.

Fire is the worst of them all. Ozai just had to punch once for Zuko to be scarred forever.

I know, but it is entirely subjective to the plot point.  The way it was depicted 'Agni Kai' all it takes to burn someones face and show that they lost is a quick jab that scars the side of their faces, but then you watch a Pro Bending match and people are being slapped into the side of the ring by columns of flame left and right.

Therefore we have to assume that people only get burned when it serves the plot, an in this case I sincerely don't think the indication was that Korra was going to bash Tarrlok's skull in until he was either dead or a crippled mess.  A few people have mentioned how adrenaline can effect a person during a fight like that and that much is definitely true.  Korra was amped up as Tarrlok had essentially just attacked her with deadly force (Though in the kung fu genre there tends to be an assumption by the attackers that most of their attacks will be blocked until they can find an opening so who knows if Tarrlok even meant to kill Korra with his ice Daggers)  The thing is Adrenaline wears off, and fast.  You had a lull where Korra comes down and shouts at Tarrlok a bit and then moves in with her flames, by this point that lull will have drained a good bit of that Adrenaline, and as we know Korra is a good person at heart we also can assume that as the chemicals balance out she will be more amiable towards a logical compassionate disposition.

The WORST injury Tarrlok could have sustained was maybe a third degree burn, which Korra being a waterbender could easily heal while it was still fresh and she would have, because she is not a murderer.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 10:09 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #296 on: Jun 12, 2013 10:33 pm »

I stand by my statement.  I've seen the show, I know what happened.  Do I think Korra would have fire smashed Tarrlok right there, unquestionably.  Do I think she would have KILLED Tarrlok there, absolutely not.  People aren't little baloons that are going to pop, they aren't as frail as you think.  I'll admit Tarrlok could possibly have ended up with a burn somewhere (not that  he wouldn't have deserved it) but can you honestly tell me that you believe Korra would have blasted him with enough fire to completely immolate him, then leave him burning long enough to sustain deadly wounds?  Remember she's a fire bender so smothering those flames would take only a few seconds.  Undoubtedly Tarrlok would then be screaming in agony, are we assuming Korra will just leave him there like that 'Ha suck it Tarrlok, now your on fire Booyeah Team Avatar ROX!"

Korra wasn't going to murder anyone, and there is no evidence to support that she would.

Edit: As a side note we've seen people on this show take hits with more flame than what are in Korra's fists in that frame and come out of it perfectly fine.

Yes, I think Korra could very well have blasted him with enough fire to immolate him, and I have picture evidence to back it up.

Here's a frame right after Tarrlok turns Korra's attack aside:



Note that Korra's fists are both extended forward, shooting two streams of fire at him with a circle of flame surrounding the point of origin.

Here's a frame of Korra's opening salvo in the fight:



Again, both fists are extended forward, shooting two streams of fire at him with a circle of flame surrounding the point of origin.  It's fair to assume that these two attacks are identical.

Now, what did that first attack do?



Right, it boiled off gallons of water like it was nothing.

The show gives us every reason to believe that the attack Korra's using in both of these scenes operates like nothing so much as a high-powered flamethrower.

Now, I agree that his screams of agony would probably knock her rage-fueled bloodlust out of her right quick and it's entirely possible that he'd end up surviving (as a horribly-disfigured burn victim, most likely =| ).  But that doesn't change the fact that she thought it would be satisfying to see a helpless man burn.


A few people have mentioned how adrenaline can effect a person during a fight like that and that much is definitely true.  Korra was amped up as Tarrlok had essentially just attacked her with deadly force (Though in the kung fu genre there tends to be an assumption by the attackers that most of their attacks will be blocked until they can find an opening so who knows if Tarrlok even meant to kill Korra with his ice Daggers)  The thing is Adrenaline wears off, and fast.  You had a lull where Korra comes down and shouts at Tarrlok a bit and then moves in with her flames, by this point that lull will have drained a good bit of that Adrenaline, and as we know Korra is a good person at heart we also can assume that as the chemicals balance out she will be more amiable towards a logical compassionate disposition.

The WORST injury Tarrlok could have sustained was maybe a third degree burn, which Korra being a waterbender could easily heal while it was still fresh and she would have, because she is not a murderer.

Adrenaline might make one see red, but that wasn't really Korra's problem.  She didn't fail to realize that the fight was over -- she made it really clear that she knew the fight was over ("What are you going to do now?  You're all out of water, pal!") and she didn't care (or she cared insofar as him being helpless made it even better >_>; ), because she wanted to hurt him.

Also... "only" a third degree burn is... still pretty terrible!  (And I could see her trying to heal him, but I could also see her taking off in a panic, too, because man would a scene like that be unpleasant)
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« Reply #297 on: Jun 12, 2013 10:44 pm »

I stand by my statement.  I've seen the show, I know what happened.  Do I think Korra would have fire smashed Tarrlok right there, unquestionably.  Do I think she would have KILLED Tarrlok there, absolutely not.  People aren't little baloons that are going to pop, they aren't as frail as you think.  I'll admit Tarrlok could possibly have ended up with a burn somewhere (not that  he wouldn't have deserved it) but can you honestly tell me that you believe Korra would have blasted him with enough fire to completely immolate him, then leave him burning long enough to sustain deadly wounds?  Remember she's a fire bender so smothering those flames would take only a few seconds.  Undoubtedly Tarrlok would then be screaming in agony, are we assuming Korra will just leave him there like that 'Ha suck it Tarrlok, now your on fire Booyeah Team Avatar ROX!"

Korra wasn't going to murder anyone, and there is no evidence to support that she would.

Edit: As a side note we've seen people on this show take hits with more flame than what are in Korra's fists in that frame and come out of it perfectly fine.

Yes, I think Korra could very well have blasted him with enough fire to immolate him, and I have picture evidence to back it up.

Here's a frame right after Tarrlok turns Korra's attack aside:



Note that Korra's fists are both extended forward, shooting two streams of fire at him with a circle of flame surrounding the point of origin.

Here's a frame of Korra's opening salvo in the fight:



Again, both fists are extended forward, shooting two streams of fire at him with a circle of flame surrounding the point of origin.  It's fair to assume that these two attacks are identical.

Now, what did that first attack do?



Right, it boiled off gallons of water like it was nothing.

The show gives us every reason to believe that the attack Korra's using in both of these scenes operates like nothing so much as a high-powered flamethrower.

Now, I agree that his screams of agony would probably knock her rage-fueled bloodlust out of her right quick and it's entirely possible that he'd end up surviving (as a horribly-disfigured burn victim, most likely =| ).  But that doesn't change the fact that she thought it would be satisfying to see a helpless man burn.


A few people have mentioned how adrenaline can effect a person during a fight like that and that much is definitely true.  Korra was amped up as Tarrlok had essentially just attacked her with deadly force (Though in the kung fu genre there tends to be an assumption by the attackers that most of their attacks will be blocked until they can find an opening so who knows if Tarrlok even meant to kill Korra with his ice Daggers)  The thing is Adrenaline wears off, and fast.  You had a lull where Korra comes down and shouts at Tarrlok a bit and then moves in with her flames, by this point that lull will have drained a good bit of that Adrenaline, and as we know Korra is a good person at heart we also can assume that as the chemicals balance out she will be more amiable towards a logical compassionate disposition.

The WORST injury Tarrlok could have sustained was maybe a third degree burn, which Korra being a waterbender could easily heal while it was still fresh and she would have, because she is not a murderer.

Adrenaline might make one see red, but that wasn't really Korra's problem.  She didn't fail to realize that the fight was over -- she made it really clear that she knew the fight was over ("What are you going to do now?  You're all out of water, pal!") and she didn't care (or she cared insofar as him being helpless made it even better >_>; ), because she wanted to hurt him.

Also... "only" a third degree burn is... still pretty terrible!  (And I could see her trying to heal him, but I could also see her taking off in a panic, too, because man would a scene like that be unpleasant)

Burns are treatable in Avatarverse as long as its done in time.  The only reason Zuko would have required the spirit water is because it was already scarred over.  If Tarrlok survived at all he would be fine.  Arrested, taken to a hospital and healed up, and were assuming a BIG if he was seriously harmed to begin with.  Picture evidence concerning this particular element of the show is sketchy at best as to what damage it  would have caused.  I can provide screenshots of the ice daggers Tarlock was firing at Korra and how it would be impossible not to be turned into a pincushion on the back wall with how long Korra was standing there but there would be no point.  It is still a cartoon and during action sequences follows cartoon/Hollywood logic.

Anyways.  I think we've taken this conversation far enough in a topic dedicated  to something else.  Maybe we can all just agree that Korra intended to hurt Tarrlok (I don't consider dangerous criminals as qualifying in the "helpless man" category though.  Obviously he was still plenty dangerous even if Korra didn't know it) but I think we can probably all also agree that Korra wasn't going to kill him and certainly didn't intend to murder him.  
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 10:50 pm by ViridianIV » Logged

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« Reply #298 on: Jun 12, 2013 11:28 pm »

Context. Tarlok only did bloodbending to save his own life. Korra isn't Aang to where she'll spare anyone's life. Aang would have arrested him immediately at that point. Korra instead went in for the kill against a (as far as she knew) completely unarmed opponent. I'd say its safe to say she was either going to kill him or permanently immobilize him.

That's hardly context.  Tarrlok bloodbent to keep Korra from ruining his plans.  He still harbored a hope of hiding her away somewhere and keeping up his 'rule the city' plot which he can't accomplish from in jail, which Korra quite easily could have been moving to subdue him, like I said before, to knock him unconscious.  Korra has never been shown to have any sort of murderous impulses.  The fact that the only confirmable deaths in the show so far are suicides

What are you talking about? This is the equivalent Korra and Tarlok getting in a sword fight, Korra disarms him, and still continues to try and stab him. Yeah, he may have had the concealed handgun that came out of his sleeve, but Korra would have no means of knowing this. Would he then be shooting her simply because she ruined his plans or self preservation of his own life? I'm going more with the later and the fact that Korra was going to kill him. You're forgetting that Korra is a shoot first and ask questions later character, which I don't think it's out of character, even if she would almost certainly regret it later.

Also flames don't knock out people. If she was going to do that, clearly Earth would be the element she'd go to, which was at her disposal at the time. Her only intent with the flames was to brutally burn Tarlok and make him pay. It wasn't a single jab like Ozai's was either to Zuko's face. it was going to burn 20%+ of his body, which typically means you're in deep crap and surviving it doesn't go into your favor.

Yet again, this is why this fanbase can't have nice things in things being implied.

Quote
I stand by my statement.  I've seen the show, I know what happened.  Do I think Korra would have fire smashed Tarrlok right there, unquestionably.  Do I think she would have KILLED Tarrlok there, absolutely not.  People aren't little baloons that are going to pop, they aren't as frail as you think.  I'll admit Tarrlok could possibly have ended up with a burn somewhere (not that  he wouldn't have deserved it) but can you honestly tell me that you believe Korra would have blasted him with enough fire to completely immolate him, then leave him burning long enough to sustain deadly wounds?  Remember she's a fire bender so smothering those flames would take only a few seconds.  Undoubtedly Tarrlok would then be screaming in agony, are we assuming Korra will just leave him there like that 'Ha suck it Tarrlok, now your on fire Booyeah Team Avatar ROX!"  

First of all, I don't think you remotely understand how lethal flames are. Getting a full flame thrower to the face and upper body (which was certainly what Korra was about to do) would in the very least mutilate his entire face and make him breath through a straw. Ozai's strike was precise on exactly where he wanted it to go and how much he wanted Zuko burned. Korra was unreasonable at the time, to where she wouldn't have given Tarlok a nice Zuko scar, and more like melt part of his throat off sort of thing.

And secondly, with this fanbase in particular, they can't fathom that our hero will do bad things and not think them through. Korra was about to kill him in a fit of rage. She wasn't rationally thinking, and had no other purpose but to cause Tarlok as much pain as possible. Sorry, but Korra popped. Every person has their breaking point, and Korra reached her's with Tarlok. All people are more or less balloons, and they all have the point where they pop. Any character that doesn't have this is bad and completely unrealistic.

A lot of times when people get in fights, the adrenaline takes over, and they act without really realizing what they're doing. Korra didn't go in there with the intention to kill, and I'm sure at no point did she think "I'm going to murderize this guy and burn his face off". It's more like the fight escalated to that point. It wasn't til Tarlock pulled out his bloodbending that they snapped out of it and realized the fight had gone that far.

This too. I don't think either of them planned on taking it that far, but it just happened. Korra just doesn't think things through and was planning on harming him as much as possible in a fit of rage, which would have in all likelihood killed Tarlok.

Quote
I know, but it is entirely subjective to the plot point.  The way it was depicted 'Agni Kai' all it takes to burn someones face and show that they lost is a quick jab that scars the side of their faces, but then you watch a Pro Bending match and people are being slapped into the side of the ring by columns of flame left and right.

Umm, Agni Kais are typically lethal, despite one not being shown on the show. They are typically fights to the death, even if it doesn't end that way. Combustion Man is confirmed to have murdered quite a few people in Agni Kais. Plus the 3 Agni Kais we saw in the series I don't think are very typical: Ozai wanted his son to live in shame, Zuko spared Zhao of any burns, and the final one between Azula and Zuko was over-the-top due to the comet, but it was certainly intended to be a duel to the death. So yeah, this more points to the fact that this would have likely killed Tarlok.

Also I'm guessing that the pro-bending uniforms are fire-proof, so this is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2013 11:56 pm by Landshark » Logged
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« Reply #299 on: Jun 13, 2013 01:34 am »

Burns are treatable in Avatarverse as long as its done in time.  The only reason Zuko would have required the spirit water is because it was already scarred over.  If Tarrlok survived at all he would be fine.  Arrested, taken to a hospital and healed up, and were assuming a BIG if he was seriously harmed to begin with.  Picture evidence concerning this particular element of the show is sketchy at best as to what damage it  would have caused.  I can provide screenshots of the ice daggers Tarlock was firing at Korra and how it would be impossible not to be turned into a pincushion on the back wall with how long Korra was standing there but there would be no point.  It is still a cartoon and during action sequences follows cartoon/Hollywood logic.

Er, no, the reason why Korra wasn't hurt was because she turned his ice daggers into water. It was pretty clear that they weren't just conveniently all missing the target, like you suggest.
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