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Author Topic: What could have been done better? [Constructive criticism, not things you hate]  (Read 110586 times)
Lavanya Six
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« Reply #1950 on: Oct 01, 2013 09:28 pm »

Or they should have had a bigger role from the start.

I still think their introduction was interesting. But after that, it just.. kinda fell flat, it feels like. Undecided

They're tied to the pro-bending arc, and have never worked after it was over. I think that's why in all those Season 1 rewrite proposals that floated around after the finale, one point repeated a lot was the idea of the brothers being deeper into the triads. Them as criminals gave 'em more story opportunities in S1 than being athletes, and "going straight" would've been decent fodder for S2.
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Mr Grieves
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« Reply #1951 on: Oct 01, 2013 09:32 pm »

Bigger criminals and better benders too. Someone suggested they should have been much better than Korra at their respective bending styles and I like that idea. Give them the know-how to get around Republic City safely. I mean, I don't know, you have Lin lose her badge and then she's all like 'well I wanna get this Amon guy but without a badge...' and then Korra is like 'Hold the phone chief, I know a couple of guys who can give us a hand.'
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Loopy
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« Reply #1952 on: Oct 02, 2013 06:52 pm »

Thematically, though, Korra learning the Earth and Fire elements still doesn't fit with the "Air" and "Spirits" themes. Aang achieved basic competency level for each element in the Book that's named for it, but is Korra just supposed to be a mediocre Firebender for the whole series?
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Spiritwhisperer
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« Reply #1953 on: Oct 02, 2013 06:54 pm »

The point of her character really kinda is she excells at the physical side of bending, but has mostly ignored the spiritual side. I don't mind it like that either, apart from being very different from Aang, I quite enjoy a physically competent 'action girl' as protagonist, even if she's rather brash. Confidence in her abilities that's actually waranted, essentially, as misplaced confidence becomes awkward to watch. I loved that scene in Welcome To Republic City where she shows up the triad members in their respective elements, for example.
« Last Edit: Oct 02, 2013 07:00 pm by Spiritwhisperer » Logged

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« Reply #1954 on: Oct 02, 2013 06:56 pm »

I'd be fine with changing the point of her character. Grin

Snark aside, I really would find a character who isn't as physical to be a lot more sympathetic and relatable. Korra's conflicts don't do anything for me, and yet Raphael is my favorite Ninja Turtle.
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Mr Grieves
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« Reply #1955 on: Oct 02, 2013 07:09 pm »

Thematically, though, Korra learning the Earth and Fire elements still doesn't fit with the "Air" and "Spirits" themes

I wouldn't care, basically Cheesy

Hell, just call it Book One: Republic City Madness or something. No need to follow ATLA in that regard/
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Loopy
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« Reply #1956 on: Oct 02, 2013 07:14 pm »

Honestly, the thing I'm most curious about the future books is what they're going to call them. Grin

But I agree, LoK is so stylistically different from ATLA that superficials like that should be sacrificed for story.
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Lavanya Six
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« Reply #1957 on: Oct 02, 2013 07:55 pm »

The point of her character really kinda is she excells at the physical side of bending, but has mostly ignored the spiritual side. I don't mind it like that either, apart from being very different from Aang, I quite enjoy a physically competent 'action girl' as protagonist, even if she's rather brash. Confidence in her abilities that's actually waranted, essentially, as misplaced confidence becomes awkward to watch. I loved that scene in Welcome To Republic City where she shows up the triad members in their respective elements, for example.

Which would be great fodder for storytelling, if it was ever actually important in the series.

Airbending? She eventually developed it Because Reasons. Because Amon? No great insight there, she just had the good fortune to blast him out a window, into the sea, and ruin his make-up job in front of his adoring cultists. The Avatar State? She had a good cry. The Southern Portal? She punched it. The Dark Spirits? Apparently, waving your arms Unalaq-style gives you the ability to purify them.

Korra never kills anything with her brain.
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ByStorm
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« Reply #1958 on: Oct 02, 2013 10:25 pm »

I'd be fine with changing the point of her character. Grin

Snark aside, I really would find a character who isn't as physical to be a lot more sympathetic and relatable. Korra's conflicts don't do anything for me, and yet Raphael is my favorite Ninja Turtle.

Strange. That's my fave to or Leonardo or the one who invents.
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« Reply #1959 on: Oct 02, 2013 11:22 pm »

Donatello 4eva <3

Or Leonardo. I've always had a soft spot for the blue one.

/off-topic
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« Reply #1960 on: Oct 03, 2013 03:43 am »

Which would be great fodder for storytelling, if it was ever actually important in the series.

Airbending? She eventually developed it Because Reasons. Because Amon? No great insight there, she just had the good fortune to blast him out a window, into the sea, and ruin his make-up job in front of his adoring cultists. The Avatar State? She had a good cry. The Southern Portal? She punched it. The Dark Spirits? Apparently, waving your arms Unalaq-style gives you the ability to purify them.

Korra never kills anything with her brain.

Eh. That's debatable and frankly you've oversimplified each situation.

Airbending was eventually going to be achieved for her anyway, and she did so by effectively facing her fear of Amon by protecting the one she loved with the only way she knew how. The Avatar State? Aang probably knew that her identity was based on being the Avatar, and as such would never have even thought of allowing her to remain without her bending, which came about from a unnatural cause.

As for the portal, the physical method always worked for her before, so why wouldn't she rely on her strength in that situation? Just because her first choice of method to obtain a goal isn't to sit down and meditate in front of it for a while, that doesn't mean she is incapable of trying it any other way.

And her attempt to pacify that Dark Spirit during her journey to the South Pole just strengthens the idea that she is much more attuned to the physical side of bending than the spiritual side. She was imitating Unalaq's technique, but wasn't employing his mindset. Korra's character in a nutshell is that she intrinsically aims for direct and physical solution rather than roundabout methods. And there was no way she would have developed a different method of doing things after just the end of the first season.
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« Reply #1961 on: Oct 03, 2013 04:21 am »

Well, if "waving your arms" is all that apparently is needed to affect those dark spirits, how is that Korra's fault? Apparently it is so easy enough to pick up that Korra managed, as a complete novice, to at least make that dark spirit stop in his tracks for a second. Or maybe it means that Korra got enough moxy going on in the spiritual department that she can at least pick up the rudimentary technique just by seeing it in action.

As for the spirit portal, it should be mentioned that Korra was under time constraints. She had just shaken off pursuit by a few dark spirits and she saw them trying to find another way to her. Punching the portal assuredly wasn't the best way to go, but there are qualifiers why she didn't try some meditation over it first.
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Lavanya Six
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« Reply #1962 on: Oct 03, 2013 05:51 am »

Eh. That's debatable and frankly you've oversimplified each situation.

Admittedly, that is a side effect of using glibness to make a point.

Airbending was eventually going to be achieved for her anyway, and she did so by effectively facing her fear of Amon by protecting the one she loved with the only way she knew how. The Avatar State? Aang probably knew that her identity was based on being the Avatar, and as such would never have even thought of allowing her to remain without her bending, which came about from a unnatural cause.

See, I don't buy any of that. The "airbending unleashed by love" thing is pulled straight out of the show's butt, and poorly explained at that. I've seen some lovely, well-argued fan essays trying to justify it. They do a great job. But it's justifying the lion-turtle all over again. And being rooted in the Makorra romance doesn't help, given how badly that was implemented in Season 1. The Avatar State thing is ambiguously suicidal, and keeping it ambiguous immediately after an onscreen murder-suicide feels gutless.


As for the portal, the physical method always worked for her before, so why wouldn't she rely on her strength in that situation? Just because her first choice of method to obtain a goal isn't to sit down and meditate in front of it for a while, that doesn't mean she is incapable of trying it any other way

That's my point! Some reviewers, here and elsewhere, have talked about it being disappointing that Korra seems to have changed very little over the past season and a half. I'd counter with -- "Why should she?" Korra Style has worked out pretty well for her so far.

Which I wouldn't mind, if the narrative wasn't so dissonant about the topic. I think it'd be pretty cool if she show addressed this running issue with a different tact: if it said, "Hey, Korra, your thing works, but you're making more work for yourself and could solve these Big Bads in half the episodes" or even, "Hey, Tenzin, being a musclehead isn't bad, so maybe the real problem is comparing me to Aang." (Korra forcibly stepping out of Aang's shadow would be pretty keen, actually.)

Instead, all the old men on the show are all, "Korra! Stop being such a thug!" and the narrative seems to act like they have a good point. Korra going with Unalaq initially had an air of her junking that stuff, but instead, nope, it was just an old man relying on Korra's not being up-and-up enough on spirit stuff to figure out what his secret portal plan is.

Well, if "waving your arms" is all that apparently is needed to affect those dark spirits, how is that Korra's fault? Apparently it is so easy enough to pick up that Korra managed, as a complete novice, to at least make that dark spirit stop in his tracks for a second. Or maybe it means that Korra got enough moxy going on in the spiritual department that she can at least pick up the rudimentary technique just by seeing it in action.

It's not Korra's fault. It's the show's fault, because the show has a dissonance at its core. On one hand, it says "Korra isn't spiritual enough yet" but it shows "Spirituality is actually a physical thing after all, and there's no real secret to it". The only time the show seriously dips into spirit stuff for Korra is when she meditates while locked in Tarrlok's basement. The rest is grit and poorly implemented duex ex machina.
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2013 06:09 am by Lavanya Six » Logged
Flipdark95
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« Reply #1963 on: Oct 03, 2013 06:29 am »

^ Good points. Actually, judging by that scene with Tenzin we saw in the trailer, Korra's development could be shaping up in a similar fashion to what you said. And Tenzin could learn not to be so bull-headed with her concerning her spirituality, learning that she simply looks at things in a much different fashion than he does.
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Mr Grieves
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« Reply #1964 on: Oct 03, 2013 07:16 am »

Eh. That's debatable and frankly you've oversimplified each situation.

Admittedly, that is a side effect of using glibness to make a point.

Airbending was eventually going to be achieved for her anyway, and she did so by effectively facing her fear of Amon by protecting the one she loved with the only way she knew how. The Avatar State? Aang probably knew that her identity was based on being the Avatar, and as such would never have even thought of allowing her to remain without her bending, which came about from a unnatural cause.

See, I don't buy any of that. The "airbending unleashed by love" thing is pulled straight out of the show's butt, and poorly explained at that. I've seen some lovely, well-argued fan essays trying to justify it. They do a great job. But it's justifying the lion-turtle all over again. And being rooted in the Makorra romance doesn't help, given how badly that was implemented in Season 1. The Avatar State thing is ambiguously suicidal, and keeping it ambiguous immediately after an onscreen murder-suicide feels gutless.


As for the portal, the physical method always worked for her before, so why wouldn't she rely on her strength in that situation? Just because her first choice of method to obtain a goal isn't to sit down and meditate in front of it for a while, that doesn't mean she is incapable of trying it any other way

That's my point! Some reviewers, here and elsewhere, have talked about it being disappointing that Korra seems to have changed very little over the past season and a half. I'd counter with -- "Why should she?" Korra Style has worked out pretty well for her so far.

Which I wouldn't mind, if the narrative wasn't so dissonant about the topic. I think it'd be pretty cool if she show addressed this running issue with a different tact: if it said, "Hey, Korra, your thing works, but you're making more work for yourself and could solve these Big Bads in half the episodes" or even, "Hey, Tenzin, being a musclehead isn't bad, so maybe the real problem is comparing me to Aang." (Korra forcibly stepping out of Aang's shadow would be pretty keen, actually.)

Instead, all the old men on the show are all, "Korra! Stop being such a thug!" and the narrative seems to act like they have a good point. Korra going with Unalaq initially had an air of her junking that stuff, but instead, nope, it was just an old man relying on Korra's not being up-and-up enough on spirit stuff to figure out what his secret portal plan is.

Well, if "waving your arms" is all that apparently is needed to affect those dark spirits, how is that Korra's fault? Apparently it is so easy enough to pick up that Korra managed, as a complete novice, to at least make that dark spirit stop in his tracks for a second. Or maybe it means that Korra got enough moxy going on in the spiritual department that she can at least pick up the rudimentary technique just by seeing it in action.

It's not Korra's fault. It's the show's fault, because the show has a dissonance at its core. On one hand, it says "Korra isn't spiritual enough yet" but it shows "Spirituality is actually a physical thing after all, and there's no real secret to it". The only time the show seriously dips into spirit stuff for Korra is when she meditates while locked in Tarrlok's basement. The rest is grit and poorly implemented duex ex machina.

This entire post pretty much sums up my issues with Korra, great post.

And I really think LOK could take that direction with Korra, in having her be a primarily physical Avatar that kicks butt all the time and not have it be a problem in the universe. Sure, Aang was a spiritual Avatar, but he was also raised by monks which is a background we don't see for basically anyone else in the series. Would it be a break from the show's ideals to acknowledge that there may have been some Avatars among the thousands that weren't so versed in the spirits and just enforced balance through sheer force? I mean we've basically had that so far in LOK. And as Lavanya said, that itself isn't a problem. Its the fact that the show seems torn about it. And in a way that seems to resolve complicated conflicts cheaply rather than create interesting new ones.
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1965 on: Oct 04, 2013 10:24 pm »

I think this person wrote a great summary of the things that kinda fell short in the first book, and how they could have been improved.

http://kotaku.com/5923014/5-ways-the-legend-of-korra-went-wrong
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« Reply #1966 on: Oct 05, 2013 02:04 pm »

I agree with everything but the crit about the humor. I thought that, for the most part, LoK's handling of humor was better than ATLA's. The only problem was that the humor itself was having an identity crisis- did it want to be Joss Whedon-esque banter and situational comedy, or did it want to be Fartbending? The end answer was, of course, "Both," which is going to risk turning off half the audience looking for humor.
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« Reply #1967 on: Nov 18, 2013 06:19 pm »

Character's and story needed work in book 1. The problem was that the characters fell flat because of certain reasons. But, over all, it was the lack of interesting characters with a little mystery - in LAB we got a colourful cast, with characters like Azula, Mai, Zuko, Sokka, Katara, Aang, Long Feng, Ozai, Iroh, etc. - characters who didn't have this bizarre B-Plot end-all character development was how they deal with relationships, instead Romance was kept to the background, didn't get in the way and wasn't brought up constantly.

Here is my suggestion for what I think could have made better character's and story:

Korra: The problem is they tried so hard to make her the opposite of Aang. The anti-Aang That wasn't necessary. It sometimes felt like how can we make her even less like Aang than her actual character. Someone who was cooped up most of their life could have made an interesting story - but, I think the Tom-boy rebel was a little cliche and instead of a character who had interesting, social problems - we get a tom-boy teenager hothead.

Solution: Naive but not ignorant. Instead of having Korra being so trusting and brash, have her be decisive and clever. She can have her missteps and misconceptions of the world due to her lock-up, but make those be her downfalls which she had to work on the coarse of the first book. DON'T make her trapped by some love-triangle when the city's building for an explosion - not say there can't be some romance, but keep it subtle and in the background until these feelings culminate over time and it is necessary to show more - and still don't make it steal the limelight.

Besides, does Korra even need to be dependent on relationships - priorities needed to be sorted in a warzone.

Asami: The doormat of LOK - stepped on and doesn't even defend herself - get's roped in twice and ditched twice by Mako. I'd prefer they'd gone with their original idea of her being an Equalist spy working to infiltrate Team Avatar. Much more interesting than 'kick-ass', rich girl who's all nice and always the victim. Femme Fatale, anyone? I'd like to a classy and suave Asami, certainly - she has the look. Also, they could have used dramatic irony where we know it's her, but the character's don't - allowing kick-ass espionage and sabotage, and also Asami as a device to give greater insight in the philosophy of the Equalists and justifications. She could even come around in the end if they wanted her to be kept around, yet still hold firm to Non-bender rights and instead legally fight for them after the book and help ease the tensions.

Mako. Probending was unnecessary - I'd like a cameo or two, but minutes upon minutes of the fictional game felt like time wasted most of the time. We also needed to see an unsaintly episode of Mako and Bolin on the streets - committing wrongs and being forced to do what needs to be done to survive in the slums - this could have also hinted at why Equalist's are gaining support due to inequality in work - Bender's get higher pay due to advantageous abilities (e.g. high paid waterbenders in hospitals, firebenders and waterbenders in Firefighters, bender cops, engineering and building, etc.) and the non-bender's cannot compare - meaning a wealth inequality between Benders and Non-benders due to an imbalance in opportunity.

The problem with the Pro-bending thing was it made Mako involved and yet less involved in the dirty-side of Republic city - a side we should have seen more since all we got was the pretty, clean side mostly. They rectified this in book 2, somewhat, but I think Mako should have been a private detective from the start and been dragged into investigating the equalists and gotten too deep. Bolin. Like his character and he could remain as a Pro-bender. We don't need two/three, only one. He could be a victim of leverage against Mako or vice versa - the Equalist's could get Mako or Bolin to keep quiet and do work for them, making it show the deviousness of the Equalists.

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