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Author Topic: What could have been done better? [Constructive criticism, not things you hate]  (Read 110556 times)
fireywaters
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« Reply #1925 on: Aug 19, 2013 09:52 pm »

Like I said many times episode 5 cliffhanger should have been Amon and the Equalist and there plotting. A cliffhanger about pro bending, who really cares. Just compare it to the cliffhanger of "The Earth King", finding out Azula is in Ba Sing Se, stuff is about to go down, it convades that message perfectly, Amon and the Equalist would have done the same, the Wolfbats, really that is suppose scare us? Is suppose to have the same impact with seeing Azula and company disguised as the Kyoshi Warriors.
« Last Edit: Aug 19, 2013 10:29 pm by fireywaters » Logged

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« Reply #1926 on: Aug 22, 2013 11:02 am »

Honestly, while I do understand that people are mad at him, I feel like it's way overdone. Sure, he messed up but sometimes it feels as if people completely ignored the fact that he could have his own justification for what he was doing and simply blamed him for everything that happened based on the girls' POV. In other words, I just feel like they put their own frustration from failed relationship into LOK and focused only on those that were rejected without looking at all sides and at the whole thing objectively. The world needs more Vulcan ideology...

I feel like the overblown part came from the gaslighting we received from Bryke.  When they went out of their way to pooh pooh Mako's actions, the part of the fandom that had issues with Mako's character felt overlooked and became stronger in their feelings about Mako.  In fact, I think Mako now serves as a symbol for the fandom of the bad writing in book 1 of LOK .  He is the shorthand for the love triangle, probending, and Bryke's pacing issues. 
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SilverSandwich
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« Reply #1927 on: Aug 22, 2013 11:36 am »

^I agree with you but what I meant is that he should have told her anyway because that's emotional cheating, regardless whether it's just a crush. Common sense says that that's something anyone is supposed to tell to their significant other. He doesn't have to break up with her just tell her he has a crush on Korra and that it doesn't have to mean anything.

The only thing I fault is how- after he realized how he was hurting Asami and toying with Korra- he still avoided all admittance of fault or responsibility, and made no attempt to apologize to either girl. He just naturally assumed he could start up with Korra like nothing happened.
I completely agree with this. I know that they didn't have much time or need to go through stuff like that while under attack but they could have shown him apologising after everything was over. Or just hint on it (if they were so extremely keen on not showing important stuff on screen).

Honestly, while I do understand that people are mad at him, I feel like it's way overdone. Sure, he messed up but sometimes it feels as if people completely ignored the fact that he could have his own justification for what he was doing and simply blamed him for everything that happened based on the girls' POV. In other words, I just feel like they put their own frustration from failed relationship into LOK and focused only on those that were rejected without looking at all sides and at the whole thing objectively. The world needs more Vulcan ideology...

I have to agree on this level especially: the amount of anger and rage directed at Mako...a fictional character...actually drove me away from this and almost all other Avatar-centered sites for a good, long while. It was getting very strange to me. Obviously I expect fans to be overly-analytical on some level, but I started feeling like I was watching something destructive.

I was always of the mind that Mako was shown as a young adult who didn't understand his own feelings, and who didn't comprehend how others could interpret certain things in ways very different than he would. Deep down he felt, but not necessarily "knew", he liked and later loved Korra, but he knew full well he cared a lot for Asami too, and he did a poor job of figuring his feelings out. When confronted about his poor job, he on the one hand likely felt justifiably indignant (like "SHE kissed ME! I didn't seek it out!"), but totally clueless as to A) why Asami would still feel hurt over it, and B) why the others were thinking he cared more about Korra. Seemed to me like even as he was doting over Korra following her escape from Tarlokk, he still didn't think what he was doing could be looked at in any way beside "he's just taking care of his friend"...which means he sucks at perspective.

As said before, this doesn't excuse him...but "excusing" the character was never the point. He DOES screw up, and deserved to be called on not thinking of how his own justifications aren't what other people will see, but by the time we're in the last few episodes it's all an afterthought, anyway, to the much more interesting Amon conflict.

In the end, I mostly agree with this take on it: the creators had 12 episodes, felt they needed a romance in there, and took what actually could have had some potential and really rushed it, leading to some negative reactions concerning it. The idea of teen romance being messy, that young people screw up and forget that others will see the same thing but feel entirely differently about its ramifications, that it's possible to care for more than one person at once and that it will inevitably lead to some level of conflict (not necessarily destructive conflict)...these are interesting ideas, and frankly ideas that were not really developed much in the original series. That's fine.

But again, with only 12 episodes and a very plot-heavy structure? It bogged things down, and had no room to breathe and grow, and the room for complexities was quickly shut off.
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Flipdark95
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« Reply #1928 on: Aug 23, 2013 01:39 am »

I feel like the overblown part came from the gaslighting we received from Bryke.  When they went out of their way to pooh pooh Mako's actions, the part of the fandom that had issues with Mako's character felt overlooked and became stronger in their feelings about Mako.  In fact, I think Mako now serves as a symbol for the fandom of the bad writing in book 1 of LOK .  He is the shorthand for the love triangle, probending, and Bryke's pacing issues. 

Geez, poor Mako. Gonna take a lot for all of that bad taste to get washed away.
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« Reply #1929 on: Aug 24, 2013 06:17 pm »

I feel like the overblown part came from the gaslighting we received from Bryke.  When they went out of their way to pooh pooh Mako's actions, the part of the fandom that had issues with Mako's character felt overlooked and became stronger in their feelings about Mako.  In fact, I think Mako now serves as a symbol for the fandom of the bad writing in book 1 of LOK .  He is the shorthand for the love triangle, probending, and Bryke's pacing issues. 

Geez, poor Mako. Gonna take a lot for all of that bad taste to get washed away.

He shoulda stayed w/Asami. Having him go for Korra was a mistake and setting her up with anyone was a bigger mistake. Having him ditch Asami for Korra was straight-up character assassination. You want dopey teen romance/love triangles, read old Archie Comics.
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ByStorm
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« Reply #1930 on: Aug 24, 2013 08:44 pm »

I feel like the overblown part came from the gaslighting we received from Bryke.  When they went out of their way to pooh pooh Mako's actions, the part of the fandom that had issues with Mako's character felt overlooked and became stronger in their feelings about Mako.  In fact, I think Mako now serves as a symbol for the fandom of the bad writing in book 1 of LOK .  He is the shorthand for the love triangle, probending, and Bryke's pacing issues. 

Geez, poor Mako. Gonna take a lot for all of that bad taste to get washed away.

He shoulda stayed w/Asami. Having him go for Korra was a mistake and setting her up with anyone was a bigger mistake. Having him ditch Asami for Korra was straight-up character assassination. You want dopey teen romance/love triangles, read old Archie Comics.

Or watch General Hospital. Its an example on how not to write or shoot a TV show.
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Venom Wolf
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« Reply #1931 on: Aug 28, 2013 03:53 am »

I feel like the overblown part came from the gaslighting we received from Bryke.  When they went out of their way to pooh pooh Mako's actions, the part of the fandom that had issues with Mako's character felt overlooked and became stronger in their feelings about Mako.  In fact, I think Mako now serves as a symbol for the fandom of the bad writing in book 1 of LOK .  He is the shorthand for the love triangle, probending, and Bryke's pacing issues. 

Geez, poor Mako. Gonna take a lot for all of that bad taste to get washed away.

They should have made him more interesting. He's so bland and boring in comparison to the other characters.
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HikaruIzumi
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« Reply #1932 on: Aug 28, 2013 09:10 am »

^Yeah, he totally pales in comparison to the character strength and role importance of Asami, for example.
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Xagzan
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« Reply #1933 on: Aug 28, 2013 12:48 pm »

Yeah, Asami really reminded me of (Xenoblade spoilers) Melia in how much crap the story kept dropping on the poor girl. Just piled it on, loss after loss.

Thankfully, with Xenoblade it didn't make the other characters look like selfish jerks.
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« Reply #1934 on: Aug 28, 2013 01:11 pm »

At least Melia had a loving father and a strong support group. lol
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« Reply #1935 on: Aug 28, 2013 02:26 pm »

At least Melia had a loving father and a strong support group. lol

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Antiyonder
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« Reply #1936 on: Sep 14, 2013 02:09 am »

http://family-room.ew.com/2013/09/13/legend-of-korra-season-2-burning-questions/

"Konietzko: We don’t dwell on the business of Korra restoring everyone’s bending in Book 2, but we figured she got around to helping the innocent people who lost it in the months between the seasons. She is undoubtedly holding out on some sordid characters amongst the Triads, I’d say! It is a nice thing to hold over their heads in order to get them to behave better."

See, this is why I'm a little weary of Bryan and Mike's handling of the series.  This concept would have made for a nice one shot story by having Korra considering whether or not to restore "everyone's" bending, and instead of seeing her reach said decision, it's told to us in an interview.
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #1937 on: Sep 14, 2013 02:31 am »

ATLA had a lot of behind the scenes stuff that were revealed in interviews too.

Just because it's not touched upon in Book 2 doesn't mean it won't get a mention in Book 3 or 4. We don't know for certain that they will never talk about the topic at all.
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Antiyonder
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« Reply #1938 on: Sep 14, 2013 03:01 am »

Point taken.  It's just it would be nice to have an in-show follow up dealing with the consequences of the big bad and some of the overall rebuilding happening rather than it occurring offscreen or only in side mediums and never mentioning them again.

"Just because it's not touched upon in Book 2 doesn't mean it won't get a mention in Book 3 or 4. We don't know for certain that they will never talk about the topic at all."

Except, didn't they state that they weren't going to deal with the Equalists, the oppression, the debending or anything related past Book 1?
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ByStorm
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« Reply #1939 on: Sep 24, 2013 03:16 am »

^This makes the watching of Book 1 a waste of time, resources and budget. If they never intended for it to go past Book 1 ,why was it such a major plot point that involved the United Forces and a descending into a possible long war?

I hope they do go back to them because if they completely disappear, then it is a clear failure of storytelling and the plot loses believability and credibility. In my own expectations after Book 2 if not in the last scenes of Book 2,  I want them to bring Equalist factions back and have it center around a Southern Earth Kingdom rebellion of those who side with the Kyoshi Island peoples versus the mainland that is trying to claim them at the cost of their culture and values.

They take over the Kyoshi Nation and rename it the Equalist People's Republic of Kyoshi, or something up that alley. We see Sukka's descendants in a family feud and divided at which side to support.

Not only can we get EK villains, but Sukka descendants and more Equalists in a convincing way.
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AtoMaki
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« Reply #1940 on: Sep 24, 2013 06:43 am »

They take over the Kyoshi Nation and rename it the Equalist People's Republic of Kyoshi, or something up that alley. We see Sukka's descendants in a family feud and divided at which side to support.

Not only can we get EK villains, but Sukka descendants and more Equalists in a convincing way.

Pfffff... i don't think that the Equalists could stay long on Kyoshi Island. The Kyoshi Warriors would eat them for breakfast and spit the remains back to the ocean.

And it is still in the air if we should see Sukka or Suzuki descendants  Wink.
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« Reply #1941 on: Sep 24, 2013 06:51 am »

They take over the Kyoshi Nation and rename it the Equalist People's Republic of Kyoshi, or something up that alley. We see Sukka's descendants in a family feud and divided at which side to support.

Not only can we get EK villains, but Sukka descendants and more Equalists in a convincing way.

Pfffff... i don't think that the Equalists could stay long on Kyoshi Island. The Kyoshi Warriors would eat them for breakfast and spit the remains back to the ocean.

And it is still in the air if we should see Sukka or Suzuki descendants  Wink.

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« Reply #1942 on: Sep 30, 2013 10:39 pm »

Just wanted to get this opinion out as I don't see it brought up, but regardless on how anyone responds if at all, I'm posting this once & only once until Book 2 closes in the slight hope of it being remedied.

With the talk of how Mako and Bolin don't seem to do much, I really think that the problem with them stems from trying to do a redux of Team Avatar, without realizing that even early on each of it's members had their own little story and decent focus (Though Toph probably got less in the long run).

Plus, each of the members of the Gaang, had a reason besides friendship to constantly be with Aang (especially since the story entailed more traveling than staying in one place).  It's especially helped by the fact that Katara and Sokka were the first two people that found Aang as he was freed from 100 years in suspended animation, and thus felt some responsibility to him (though Katara a little more).  Also, Katara, Toph & Zuko served the purpose of training Aang in use of the other three elements as he didn't get that training Pre-Iceburg.

I mean, they really should have been reduced to supporting characters at best after Episode 6.  Asami worked, because even after the Probending arc, she had a personal stake in the conflict due to her father helping & supplying The Equalists.  Heck, I'm almost inclined to say that her lack of appearances are a blessing as it means that she isn't frequently appearing, just to appear.

And this isn't a slam against Mako.  I mean I like Bolin, and even I'm starting to feel like he really lacks reason of being prominent in the episode, especially with Varrick providing his share of comedy.
« Last Edit: Oct 01, 2013 02:23 am by Antiyonder » Logged
ByStorm
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« Reply #1943 on: Oct 01, 2013 12:36 am »

^Agreed a ton on this.

Aang had Katara, Zuko, Toph and Sokka because Sokka and Katara were a package deal, Toph was the best earthbender of her age and Zuko was his firebending master. Sure there were story reasons why they came together, but utilitarian wise? He needed to learn the four elements in a year.

Korra? She learned the elements like licketty split and doesn't exactly have a need aside from Mako to be there for her. She was born the Avatar pretty much and grew into it , though her issue is that she was held back in one location. Her exploration throughout the world will be an experience she should have already had and maybe she will need friends for numbers' sake, but her deal wasn't really about the War. It was a rebellion. She has a war now , but its more like a civil war than a hot war between the world and the WTs until the URN enters it. Then the NWT is gonna fall.

Mako and Bolin are almost like Nicoltara and Soka in TLA. They're just there without a reason to be: Mako is a cop so he should be doing his job while Bolin's plot is the only thing that makes more sense out of the duo. If they had a deeper connection as friends even while in the South, it would be logically better for them to be everywhere together. Unless it just clicked...
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« Reply #1944 on: Oct 01, 2013 03:07 am »

Yeah, I have the feeling the writers don't really know what to do with them. Maybe it would have been better if the had stayed in RC. Then Korra comes back to get the president's support and expects them to help her, but they don't really understand what's going on in the SWT (they weren't there, after all) and they don't really like the idea of RC getting involved in another war so soon... could have created some nice tension, and a chance to get to know them better.
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Flipdark95
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« Reply #1945 on: Oct 01, 2013 05:16 am »

^ In that case I think the best bet would be for the three of them to stay in Republic City, maybe to try and help convince the President to change his stance, while Korra heads to the Southern Air Temple to meet Tenzin. That way Mako and Bolin would both have the opportunity to stand alone as their own characters for the first real time, providing opportunity for us to learn a little more about them in the process.
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« Reply #1946 on: Oct 01, 2013 06:21 am »

Yeah, I have the feeling the writers don't really know what to do with them. Maybe it would have been better if the had stayed in RC. Then Korra comes back to get the president's support and expects them to help her, but they don't really understand what's going on in the SWT (they weren't there, after all) and they don't really like the idea of RC getting involved in another war so soon... could have created some nice tension, and a chance to get to know them better.

Either that, or justify them being at the South Pole for this opening four episode arc. Bolin being adrift in life works well enough. Asami could've left Republic City to escape heat from both sides of the Equalist Revolt: people who blamed her for her father's actions, and people who blamed her for betraying "the cause". Like, Korra puts Asami up in her old compound at the South Pole for protection/peace. Bolin stays with her because he doesn't have anything better to do with his life at the moment. Mako can come with Korra to the South Pole as her boyfriend.

But yeah, the non-Korra teens don't feel all that necessary in Season 2 so far. They all come off like Mako and Bolin did after the arena attack -- a holdover from a finished story arc.
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« Reply #1947 on: Oct 01, 2013 05:23 pm »

Bolin stays with her because he doesn't have anything better to do with his life at the moment. Mako can come with Korra to the South Pole as her boyfriend.

Isn't that what's going on already?

I think they should just write Mako and Bolin out. They never should have been a part of LoK.
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« Reply #1948 on: Oct 01, 2013 05:30 pm »

Or they should have had a bigger role from the start.

I still think their introduction was interesting. But after that, it just.. kinda fell flat, it feels like. Undecided
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« Reply #1949 on: Oct 01, 2013 08:58 pm »

Or they should have had a bigger role from the start.

I still think their introduction was interesting. But after that, it just.. kinda fell flat, it feels like. Undecided

I agree. Kinda hope one of them gets killed or is maimed to give them a deeper story and plot development. Would not have minded a Plot C where Mako is rounding up suspects and is essentially a crime procedural show.
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