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Author Topic: A flaw in the Avatar cycle  (Read 3960 times)
Avatarstate247
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« on: Jun 03, 2012 05:29 pm »

After seeing Avatar Roku and now Korra's story, there's at least a 15-25 year gap between when the old Avatar dies and the new Avatar actually becomes a fully realized Avatar and preserve the balance. So I guess between that time, all the bad guys can wreak havoc.
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howulikedemrice
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 03, 2012 05:38 pm »

After seeing Avatar Roku and now Korra's story, there's at least a 15-25 year gap between when the old Avatar dies and the new Avatar actually becomes a fully realized Avatar and preserve the balance. So I guess between that time, all the bad guys can wreak havoc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIq68K8xtMk

^I think the Avatars all feel this way about that XD
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2012 05:42 pm by howulikedemrice » Logged
NeeNee
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 03, 2012 05:54 pm »

Well, that's unavoidable, isn't it? You can't expect a baby to keep the peace, and even if the AS transferred to an adult, he'd still need to take some time off for training.
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the_mango55
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 03, 2012 06:11 pm »

I guess the pathetic normals and benders will just have to go without their glorious savior for a decade or so. How will they ever manage!?!?!
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The_Phrygian
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 03, 2012 06:15 pm »

Gives the Avatar something to do.
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Tosh
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 03, 2012 06:18 pm »

The most powerful civilization couldn't even conquer the rest of the world without an Avatar for 100 years. Sure it's a flaw but it's not a major one.
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Avatarstate247
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 03, 2012 06:54 pm »

Yeah but look at the chaos and how many people died b/c there was no Avatar to protect them.
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Xian
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 03, 2012 07:01 pm »

After seeing Avatar Roku and now Korra's story, there's at least a 15-25 year gap between when the old Avatar dies and the new Avatar actually becomes a fully realized Avatar and preserve the balance. So I guess between that time, all the bad guys can wreak havoc.
I don't think it is a flaw compared to the benefit it brings.  An immortal Avatar would be alien to the world and lose his or her sense of time and humanity, being like the spirits, and without human compassion and connections, there's a great risk of becoming set in one's ways to the detriment of balance in the world... you'd be stuck with an avatar that comes out of one culture from one time whose outlook would rarely change.  By having them cycle, there is an innate humility and vulnerability to the Avatars that allows them to identify with the rest of humanity and serve them accordingly.

As for why the Avatars actually have to be born and grow- rather than, say, regenerating like The Doctor- I suppose if that unnatural a mechanism existed it would be an option, but you'd lose the vulnerability and humility and humanity of childhood and frankly, the Avatars would be utterly alien (not a problem for The Doctor, who is an alien) even if their adult reincarnations were always inbuilt with compassion and modern culture updates.  It just seems awkward and unnatural... the natural way to cycle, like the cycle of life, is simply to be born and die, so that explains why the Avatars do that as opposed to simply appearing as adults in every iteration or never dying in the first place.  They are the embodiment of nature's desire for balance so of course they would take advantage of natural mechanisms.
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Xian
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 03, 2012 07:03 pm »

Yeah but look at the chaos and how many people died b/c there was no Avatar to protect them.
Well, look at it another way, what then is your proposed alternative?  You're acting like the Avatars have any choice in how the cycle works.  The best any Avatar can do- and it is what they generally do- is fight for peace during their lifetime so that the subsequent Avatar can grow in a period of peace.  What else do you expect of them?
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neverXbroken
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 03, 2012 07:04 pm »

thats life though. and what if several different nations/cities get attacled by different people/groups? The avqatar can only do so much.
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kitsuneopal
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 03, 2012 07:07 pm »

Yeah but look at the chaos and how many people died b/c there was no Avatar to protect them.

Well having a Avatar is no guarantee of safety. Kyoshi let Chin take over the entire EK before stopping him. 
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guyw1tn0nam3
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 03, 2012 07:09 pm »

Presumably the Avatar sets up enough infrastructure, checks, and controls during his/her lifetime to ensure that there's relative peace.

Sometimes that doesn't work because the Avatar ends up screwing up in some way (*cough* Roku *cough*), but it seemed to work fine for the most part.
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Avatarstate247
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 03, 2012 07:53 pm »

thats life though. and what if several different nations/cities get attacled by different people/groups? The avqatar can only do so much.

But isn't that whole point of the Avatar? The Avatar controls everything. Their the most powerful being on earth & their job is to keep peace & balance. Basically an almighty cop (or even a Jesus-like figure). They deter criminal activity, wars etc. U step outside the lines u have to deal with consequences.
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Atticus
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 03, 2012 08:07 pm »

The most powerful civilization couldn't even conquer the rest of the world without an Avatar for 100 years. Sure it's a flaw but it's not a major one.
haha this pretty much sums it up. 20 years of not having a fully realized avatar isnt alot when you compare that to Aang missing for 100 years, and the Earth Kingdom still had the strength to hold them off. 20 years is nothing:P
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neverXbroken
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 03, 2012 08:09 pm »

well the avatar is supposee to keep balance in the world. I assumw it's the overall balance because s/he cant be evewhere.
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Xian
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« Reply #15 on: Jun 03, 2012 08:38 pm »

Their the most powerful being on earth & their job is to keep peace & balance. Basically an almighty cop (or even a Jesus-like figure). They deter criminal activity, wars etc. U step outside the lines u have to deal with consequences.
You're answering your own protest by citing the scope of the Avatar.  It's a big deal.  One that doesn't sweat the small stuff.  Nations go to war... that's the job for the Avatar.  Someone farts in your general direction... that doesn't require Avatar attention.  Your complaint is that there are ~10 years where an Avatar isn't able to intervene, when they have lifespans of up to 230 years.  Why sweat 10 years when the scope of your job is overall balance?

In any case, you have yet to address what the alternative is.  You want them to lay down and give up because of this "flaw"?  You want them to say they're ineffectual and useless because of it?  What can you accomplish by characterizing it as a flaw?  You already cite the Avatar as the supreme sentient mortal being on the planet, so who is to say it is a flaw at all if nothing else out there is better?
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WolfGeneral
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« Reply #16 on: Jun 03, 2012 08:39 pm »

Presumably the Avatar sets up enough infrastructure, checks, and controls during his/her lifetime to ensure that there's relative peace.

Sometimes that doesn't work because the Avatar ends up screwing up in some way (*cough* Roku *cough*), but it seemed to work fine for the most part.

Kyoshi too XD. Her actions led to the Fire Nation taking over Ba Sing Se
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Tosh
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« Reply #17 on: Jun 03, 2012 08:47 pm »

Yeah but look at the chaos and how many people died b/c there was no Avatar to protect them.

Several EK cities had no fire nation presence during the 100 years of war. Omashu was pretty much safe until Bumi surrendered and one of the best warriors in TLA history was bested by Ba Sing Se. The entire North Pole lived life normally and the South Pole was largely ignored.

An argument can be made that the Avatar makes things a lot more difficult since the enemy tries to hunt them down. See: 'Remains' of the Air Nomads. The world can live without a full fledged Avatar for 15-20 years.
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ThunderLips
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« Reply #18 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:00 pm »

If the world has to endure 20 years of turbulence but in return gets 80 years of presumably safe years with peace and harmony (assuming the Avatar lives to 100), seems like a good trade off.
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guyw1tn0nam3
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:01 pm »

Presumably the Avatar sets up enough infrastructure, checks, and controls during his/her lifetime to ensure that there's relative peace.

Sometimes that doesn't work because the Avatar ends up screwing up in some way (*cough* Roku *cough*), but it seemed to work fine for the most part.

Kyoshi too XD. Her actions led to the Fire Nation taking over Ba Sing Se

What? I wasn't aware of this. When did this happen?
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Revolation
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:17 pm »

Yeah but look at the chaos and how many people died b/c there was no Avatar to protect them.

Several EK cities had no fire nation presence during the 100 years of war. Omashu was pretty much safe until Bumi surrendered and one of the best warriors in TLA history was bested by Ba Sing Se. The entire North Pole lived life normally and the South Pole was largely ignored.


Quote
the South Pole was largely ignored.

What? Well technically, apparently the south pole was made up of multiple different little villages, but in ATLA we only saw one of those. Still, assuming that that was the chief's village, I'd hate to see how desolate the others looked. Then again, the fact that it was Hakoda's village probably was the reason it got so destroyed in the first place.

Either way, the air nomad genocide always casts a shadow over the consequently not much talked about genocide of the southern water tribe's water benders.
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Think on a grand scale.
NeeNee
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:18 pm »

^ I think every village had a chief.
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guyw1tn0nam3
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Why are you so salty?


« Reply #22 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:19 pm »

Quote
Either way, the air nomad genocide always casts a shadow over the consequently not much talked about genocide of the southern water tribe's water benders.

Yeah...I think the reason why the SWT got ignored is because they had all the benders taken from them. :/
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Revolation
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« Reply #23 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:20 pm »

^ I think every village had a chief.

Ah, I thought it was like an Arnook-like scenario pre-fire nation raids. Guess not.
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2012 09:27 pm by Revolation » Logged

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EqualistLord
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 03, 2012 09:20 pm »


Kyoshi too XD. Her actions led to the Fire Nation taking over Ba Sing Se

What? I wasn't aware of this. When did this happen?
Probably talking about her creating the Dai Li, which became corrupted soon after (she really regretted it) and did help the Fire Nation take over Ba Sing Se
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2012 09:24 pm by EqualistLord » Logged
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