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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 49 (20.3%)
9 - 41 (17%)
8 - 64 (26.6%)
7 - 36 (14.9%)
6 - 18 (7.5%)
5 - 11 (4.6%)
4 - 8 (3.3%)
3 - 4 (1.7%)
2 - 2 (0.8%)
1 - 8 (3.3%)
Total Voters: 241

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Author Topic: [105] The Spirit of Competition  (Read 77921 times)
guyw1tn0nam3
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Why are you so salty?


« Reply #1050 on: May 08, 2012 02:07 pm »

Keep in mind that I thought that episodes 1-4 (but mostly 2-4) were pretty good episodes and I was hoping that they'd keep things up. But apparently people think that it's a "necessary" episode. Personally, I call bull, because if there was another episode of hot action between Amon and Korra, nobody would be saying "man what this really needed though was a breather episode".


Your inner sadist is starting to show again... <_<

And I also feel you kind of missed the whole point/lesson from episode 4... >_>

I'm pretty sure I didn't, and my post isn't talking about the point of the episode anyway. I'm just saying nobody would complain if the next episode got right back into the action.
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KrimzonStriker
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« Reply #1051 on: May 08, 2012 02:11 pm »

^I'd complain how disconcerting it was Korra was able to get back into the action again after what happened last episode, and then I'd point out how it goes completely contrary to the lesson from episode 4 about running head long into a politically delicate situation, which will potentially only make it worst, before you've even dealt with the inner/personal conflict inside you. There are plenty of problems with stepping on the gas pedal in this instance given where we left off I feel. And the consequences would have been much more dire then the teenage drama we experienced this episode too.  
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012 02:14 pm by KrimzonStriker » Logged
Popenfresh
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« Reply #1052 on: May 08, 2012 02:21 pm »

^But at least that drama would have had some proper context, not the complete random and inexplicable behaviour we got now.
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guyw1tn0nam3
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Why are you so salty?


« Reply #1053 on: May 08, 2012 02:24 pm »

Right, and the reason this breather exists was so she could deal with the inner personal conflict inside herself? That's a pretty bad excuse, especially when considering that she doesn't do any of those things in this episode. If she had gone to the shores of Air Temple Island and relaxed for a day, bringing up memories from her past which affect her current situation, then maybe it'd be an appropriate breather.

But instead we get a nonsensical teenage romance plot that just feels unnatural and forced, and on top of that, it doesn't do anything to help Korra deal with her personal issues. If anything, it's just completely ignoring, downplaying how fearful she is about Amon (which I'm starting to doubt) and downplaying how big of a threat it is.

You can say "oh, but Korra just needs some time away and forget it all". Yeah. That's what she was doing in the episode four. Getting away from people and trying to forget it all. And look what happened there.

None of these excuses for this breather really make sense, especially when personally, I don't feel like the "trauma" was even that bad. People overblow these things pretty hard and to say that Korra was going through some kind of mental debilitation is pretty much a huge stretch. She was frightened out of her mind, yes. But going through a mental breakdown? Please.

In other words, a Beach episode in this place might ACTUALLY BE ACCEPTABLE if it was done properly.
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KrimzonStriker
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« Reply #1054 on: May 08, 2012 02:39 pm »

^ The cons outweigh the pros in my own humble opinion. Say what you want about the episode itself but its placement was logical and even necessary given the sequence of events that we had occur during episode 1-4. And one thing we can take from episode 5 is a stronger foundation and unit ready to support Korra in her struggles going forward, along with motivation to tie Mako and Bolin into the main plot finally because of their now cemented friendship with Korra, that's something she lacked and needed back in episode 4.

Next, it is not at all about downplaying the threat of Amon but, as episode 4 indicated, in fact it was more about overplaying the threat of Amon and reacting in an impulsive and forced manner, which only helps his cause in the end. I could compare real life scenarios to the one I'm describing now if you want.

I know what happened there, and why Tarrlok is depicted as such scum in the first place while reasonable authority figure Tenzin was so dead set against it. Had Tarrlok not pressured Korra into it at all she could have had more time to open up and deal with it without running the risk of nearly losing her bending like she did. That was and should have been the lesson people need to take from this.

I'm not even going to go into the degree of her breakdown, only that she ended up getting humbled regardless and that the lesson the episode was implying remains, and thus why we carry over to episode 5 like we did.

So once again, its about execution and differing opinions on the episode itself, but not so much its placement and necessity. Your making my point for me without suggesting an action and main-plot oriented alternative like you've been advocating that addresses all the concerns I've pointed out in regards to its placement after episode 4 and how I feel it would have been more awkward then what we had here instead.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012 02:41 pm by KrimzonStriker » Logged
Nyokou
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« Reply #1055 on: May 08, 2012 02:42 pm »

Did everyone react as negatively to The Ember Island Players when it first came out like the way everyone is reacting to this episode? It's pretty much the same situation... you go from an emotional episode like The Southern Raiders to The Ember Island Players which was comedic but also putting Katara and Aang in an awkward position about their relationship that made you want to face palm just as much as this episode does with Korra and Mako and Bolin.

Just executed differently...

I think there are a lot of people overreacting. Of course it's going to be more dramatic this time around cause you're dealing with older teens who just love to make everything over dramatic. If you skipped that part of life then I feel sorry for you for not being able to understand this episode, cause I sure as hell can. And it doesn't make me think any less of Bryke, their writing abilities or the direction this show is going. :\
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guyw1tn0nam3
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Why are you so salty?


« Reply #1056 on: May 08, 2012 02:47 pm »

So basically what you're saying is:

Korra gets humbled = necessary episode about shipping. Note here that I'm not talking about relationships or romance, because you can't call episode 5 an episode about romance or relationships. It was just shipping.

This is a simplification of course, but that's the crux of the argument: that Korra was hurt and therefore needs a break, and a break that's oriented toward forwarding shipping agenda is the correct and necessary step.

I haven't been arguing that a general breather isn't necessary. I'm saying that this specific episode was useless and unnecessary. I wouldn't have minded if Korra did some pro-bending related activities (even if I got hella bored while watching it) and was actually trying to sort out her problems while juggling her responsibilities to her team.

But instead, we get...whatever that was.

In other words, Korra doesn't even acknowledge that these problems exist. She just tosses them aside and that basically makes me feel that she really wasn't scared at all from the  last episode. We saw her cry and shiver at the sight of Amon, and yet the very next episode she doesn't even look concerned about not going to the taskforce, as if there aren't any painful memories at all. Like Loopy said, it might've been enough if Korra had looked downcast when they mentioned the taskforce, but she blows it off like it's no problem.

If episode 4 was supposed to be some grand end to an arc with a meaningful lesson, it's funny that Korra doesn't seem to acknowledge it at all.

In that sense then, this episode isn't even a breather, it's a completely disconnected episode that's just standing there, on top of it being hopelessly filled with shipping related material when the characters aren't even developed.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012 02:50 pm by guyw1tn0nam3 » Logged

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« Reply #1057 on: May 08, 2012 03:08 pm »

Just gonna pop in here and say that I don't really see any problem with the pacing of the show. It honestly seems like you guys don't even really like Korra all that much.
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momo_toph26
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« Reply #1058 on: May 08, 2012 03:13 pm »

Just gonna pop in here and say that I don't really see any problem with the pacing of the show. It honestly seems like you guys don't even really like Korra all that much.

I personally like it, but don't love it yet. I'm not just gonna fall in love with Korra that quickly solely based on its predecessor.
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« Reply #1059 on: May 08, 2012 03:14 pm »

LEGEND OF KORRA: 3,784,000 views. Most viewed Nick show of the week. Great. Smiley
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KrimzonStriker
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« Reply #1060 on: May 08, 2012 04:28 pm »

So basically what you're saying is:

Korra gets humbled = necessary episode about shipping. Note here that I'm not talking about relationships or romance, because you can't call episode 5 an episode about romance or relationships. It was just shipping.

This is a simplification of course, but that's the crux of the argument: that Korra was hurt and therefore needs a break, and a break that's oriented toward forwarding shipping agenda is the correct and necessary step.

I haven't been arguing that a general breather isn't necessary. I'm saying that this specific episode was useless and unnecessary. I wouldn't have minded if Korra did some pro-bending related activities (even if I got hella bored while watching it) and was actually trying to sort out her problems while juggling her responsibilities to her team.

But instead, we get...whatever that was.

In other words, Korra doesn't even acknowledge that these problems exist. She just tosses them aside and that basically makes me feel that she really wasn't scared at all from the  last episode. We saw her cry and shiver at the sight of Amon, and yet the very next episode she doesn't even look concerned about not going to the taskforce, as if there aren't any painful memories at all. Like Loopy said, it might've been enough if Korra had looked downcast when they mentioned the taskforce, but she blows it off like it's no problem.

If episode 4 was supposed to be some grand end to an arc with a meaningful lesson, it's funny that Korra doesn't seem to acknowledge it at all.

In that sense then, this episode isn't even a breather, it's a completely disconnected episode that's just standing there, on top of it being hopelessly filled with shipping related material when the characters aren't even developed.

I did not in fact say that, my argument has been directed solely to your moments of insistence that we could have had a main plot episode and everything would have been fine, while subsequently downplaying the idea of a needing a 'breather' for Korra after episode 4 in general. Your opinion on the worth of the episode is your own, I've already shared mine with and debated the matter with you extensively as is, but that issue is different from this issue of putting a breather episode here at all. But now that you have basically agreed with me on the theory in general we can drop that portion of the argument.

Now in terms of our opinions on the value of the episode itself, my feelings were that while there was more then just the shipping in general, that if last weeks episode was about being mature and honest with yourself then this one was about trying to be mature and honest with each other. While you're opinion on the shipping drama is noted, I tend to believe we took more away from it then just that, between character moments and evolving the relationships within the Fire Ferrets to a more cohesive unit of support based on a solidified friendship, which will in turn now pull/obligate Mako and Bolin to step up once the main plot with Amon returns.

She already made the painful acknowledgement by the end of episode 4, and already demonstrated those problems throughout episode 4 anyway. So by the beginning of episode 5 we can assume several weeks have passed given her last several practices with the team, and that would be more then adequate time to recover and get back into her normal routine now that she has acknowledged the problem finally. And I've already responded to Loopy on that point based on Korra having been pressured into the taskforce in the first place, so that her relieved exclamation of being free of that burden for the time being more then made sense. I'm not saying she was mentally broken to the point of intensive therapy here, but that taking a break and getting back into her daily life for awhile was enough of a diagnosis for what she did in fact experience.

She acknowledged it enough by the end of the arc to my thinking, where the translation of her going back and being able to do her normal routine again makes for a sensible transition, we saw how it was affecting her daily routine beforehand when she didn't acknowledge it already, between missing practice, her melancholy interactions, and not really focusing on air-bending training at all because it was simply an excuse by that point.   

Difference of opinion again, I personally think you're just giving it too little credit, and that what character development we saw here will translate into the series in general, between Bolin being able to step up under pressure unlike when he was kidnapped, to Mako being more open and honest with everyone, to Korra learning more about tact and restraint, and in general to the team being able to come together and rely on one another, in any and every situation, pro-bending and otherwise.   

 
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momo_toph26
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« Reply #1061 on: May 08, 2012 04:30 pm »

LEGEND OF KORRA: 3,784,000 views. Most viewed Nick show of the week. Great. Smiley

So it seems Korra's making a permanent home in the 3.5-4 million range. I still would like to see if there were more views for a weeknight episode.
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aa623
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« Reply #1062 on: May 08, 2012 04:38 pm »

Well, the average viewers for new episodes of ATLA was about 3.1 million so I don't know what that means.
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« Reply #1063 on: May 08, 2012 07:26 pm »

Shipping overload for sure! But I think the writer's just want to advance things as quickly as possible. The show is just 26 episodes. This season, what? 12.

This was really good though. Nice to see Asami again. I feel bad Korra and Mako kissed behind their back. Was I the only one who cracked up when Bolin started crying?! I felt so sad for him and felt so bad for laughing. That was the most adorable thing I've ever seen someone do. His face just lit up with tears and snot!

I like that they pulled through to win the tournament eventually though. Was I the only one who thought the title had NOTHING, well little to do with the actual plot of the episode? idk, just my opinion.
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« Reply #1064 on: May 08, 2012 08:10 pm »

Did everyone react as negatively to The Ember Island Players when it first came out like the way everyone is reacting to this episode? It's pretty much the same situation... you go from an emotional episode like The Southern Raiders to The Ember Island Players which was comedic but also putting Katara and Aang in an awkward position about their relationship that made you want to face palm just as much as this episode does with Korra and Mako and Bolin.

Just executed differently...

Not even close.  First off EIP was a gag-episode.  It was a joke, i.e. not meant to be taken seriously.  This episode is playing the teenage drama (at least between Korra and Mako, Bolin is pretty much lost as a 'legitimate' character) 100% straight.  It's not meant to be a joke.

And yeah, the shipping in EIP was just as bad as here.  The Bryke have no clue how to write romance, and in ATLA they seemed to understand that because they never bothered much with it till the last freaking minute.  It's pretty much the core reason shipping got so popular in the fandom, they were picking up the slack.  The difference is EIP had one brief scene.  This entire episode revolves around their terrible and tacky soap opera.
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LittleBigPerson
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« Reply #1065 on: May 08, 2012 09:00 pm »

The more I think about this episode, the more I'm reminded of The Beach.

-Not a particularly strong episode compared to the rest, but not a bad one either.
-Lots of comedy.
-Lots of cheesy romance.
-And so on and so forth.

At least in my opinion. Cheesy
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« Reply #1066 on: May 08, 2012 09:03 pm »

I just don't get why everyone's hating on episode 105. And maybe i'm off in my thinking, but isn't half of the episode about pro-bending? And isn't that necessary for the buildup to episode 106?

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« Reply #1067 on: May 08, 2012 09:06 pm »

The more I think about this episode, the more I'm reminded of The Beach.

-Not a particularly strong episode compared to the rest, but not a bad one either.
-Lots of comedy.
-Lots of cheesy romance.
-And so on and so forth.

At least in my opinion. Cheesy

Actually, The Beach had very little romance. Zuko and Mai had a tiff and made up, and Azula tried flirting with a boy. Otherwise, it was all about awkward social interactions and post-traumatic stress disorder.

I just don't get why everyone's hating on episode 105. And maybe i'm off in my thinking, but isn't half of the episode about pro-bending? And isn't that necessary for the buildup to episode 106?

I just wrote up all the descriptions for the transcript of episode 102, so I watched those pro-bending scenes a lot. The pro-bending in 105 doesn't even compare. There's a lot less action, the focus is more on the characters behaving badly than trying to play, and the animation is lesser quality. Never mind that it was predictable and cheesy.
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nukilik
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« Reply #1068 on: May 08, 2012 09:12 pm »

Quote from: Ubern00b
And yeah, the shipping in EIP was just as bad as here.  The Bryke have no clue how to write romance, and in ATLA they seemed to understand that because they never bothered much with it till the last freaking minute.  It's pretty much the core reason shipping got so popular in the fandom, they were picking up the slack.  The difference is EIP had one brief scene.  This entire episode revolves around their terrible and tacky soap opera.

To me the diference so far is that in Avatar the romance never took much of the spotlight and I, at least, felt that it flowed nicely with the story (maybe lesss episodes and faster pacing messed with this here), and instead of putting much focus on the romantic side of the relationship (meaning actual dating process/drama), save for a few exceptions, it mostly focused on the actual relationship between the characters and the importance it had to the plot, character development and story as a whole.

Kataang is, in my oppinion an example of this... we mostly saw the bond between Katara and Aang developing througout the entire show and how that was crutial to Aang's character as a whole. That specific relationship was always one of the pillars of the story and only THEN, after much time and as the series progessed, the turning into a romantic relationship didn't feel quite as forced (with EIP being the only exception to me and about the only Kataang moment that really bugs me, maybe because it's one of the few that does focus solely on the drama and the romantic side of their relationship in a forced way)

Then you have his episode being handled more like a teenage drama show as whole. Little subtlety, little contribution to the plot, and not even that much in terms of meaningful character development either.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012 09:25 pm by nukilik » Logged
LittleBigPerson
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« Reply #1069 on: May 08, 2012 09:16 pm »

^^Let me rephrase that.

The more I think about this episode, the more I'm reminded of The Beach.

-Not a particularly strong episode compared to the rest, but not a bad one either.
-Lots of comedy.
-Finger in mouth inducing kissing scenes. Tongue
-And so on and so forth.

At least in my opinion. Cheesy
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« Reply #1070 on: May 08, 2012 09:18 pm »

Weren't there just two kisses in The Beach? Grin Mai and Zuko pretty much sulked next to each other for most of the episode, then kissed when they made up at the end.
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LittleBigPerson
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« Reply #1071 on: May 08, 2012 09:22 pm »

I'm sorry, but I just gag when there's a kissing scene in anything. Tongue

The final Kataang kiss was fine, but still. Tongue

And I was mainly thinking of the scene where Azula kisses that one random dude.  I don't know, that to me was just sudden and awkward. Cheesy
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« Reply #1072 on: May 08, 2012 09:24 pm »

Azula by definition was very awkward. 
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« Reply #1073 on: May 08, 2012 09:26 pm »

And I was mainly thinking of the scene where Azula kisses that one random dude.  I don't know, that to me was just sudden and awkward. Cheesy

Yeah, that was the second kiss, of a total of two. But still, by your logic, Sokka and Suki's kiss was also gag-inducing, and that wasn't a shipping episode at all. I think you need to adjust your criteria. Tongue
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LittleBigPerson
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« Reply #1074 on: May 08, 2012 09:33 pm »

^Which one?  That one on the Serpent's Pass?  Yeah, that was kind of gag inducing. Tongue Cheesy

And I recall they had another one in Sozin's Comet, but that one was fine because that was just a little peck. 

I have a gagging sensation with all kissing scenes, it's just that some aren't as gag inducing as others.  Even the Kataang kiss I can't help but gag at just a little. Tongue

« Last Edit: May 08, 2012 09:38 pm by LittleBigPerson » Logged


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