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Author Topic: So, what do you dislike about the series? [Constructive criticism only!]  (Read 101371 times)
Water Chief
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« Reply #1750 on: Jun 22, 2012 03:05 pm »

What I wanted to see (a bit more of at least) was how subcultures in Republic city lived. Like of course the United Republic is like a blend of the 4 nations, but with that there are subcultures within it. Like nonbender culture and lifestyle could be different from bending culture, even if they can be from the same nation. Before the finale, I just wanted to get a bigger picture on how Republic city citizens lived, and how bad nonbenders have it.
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AirMaster18
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« Reply #1751 on: Jun 22, 2012 03:35 pm »

^^ You know... what bothers me isn't even wether it's unrealistic or not (the technology advancement in Avatar, or at least the FN, didn't exactly line up with ours anyway). It's how it takes away from the general feel and the universe, and for me it does.

In ATLA the tanks and the drill were very much exceptions and the way they were used had very little "tech" or "modern" feel (and heck! Aang finished the drill by running up the wall and crashing it with airbending in an epic and... how can a say it? "Organic" way?  Tongue

In short, the "feel" in Avatar was  always clearly "rural", "ancient'.

That's pretty much how I feel. It just doesn't feel like the Avatar universe. I like it how ATLA kept things simple.

I kind of think, with all the technology, why do we need bending? (I guess that's good for the equalists.) Sure there are still benders in TLoK; the fire benders supply electricity, the metal benders are cops, and the pro-benders bend for sport, but it doesn't seem like bending has a place in a world with technology.
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GenghisQuan
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« Reply #1752 on: Jun 22, 2012 03:42 pm »

What I wanted to see (a bit more of at least) was how subcultures in Republic city lived. Like of course the United Republic is like a blend of the 4 nations, but with that there are subcultures within it. Like nonbender culture and lifestyle could be different from bending culture, even if they can be from the same nation. Before the finale, I just wanted to get a bigger picture on how Republic city citizens lived, and how bad nonbenders have it.
This, a thousand times. Because that would actually let you know whether Amon and his guys have a valid point. We've only been shown exactly one example of oppression by benders against nonbenders (the triads in ep 1) and heard of two more offscreen (Mako and Amon's backstories), but nothing to indicate it's systemic in nature; Tarrlok's curfew doesn't count because that was him doing it on purpose. And so Amon's group comes off more as whiners looking for something to be oppressed by than having any legitimate grievance like in the earlier eps.

Goes with my point about Bryke not being good about showing us things that need to be shown.
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GenghisQuan
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« Reply #1753 on: Jun 22, 2012 03:44 pm »

Plus, isn't "Ancient Beinjing" you know... ancient asia? And VERY different in tone and feel from "1920 Shangai" anyway?
Well, for you, the emphasis was on the "ancient", where for me, it was on "Asian" (especially Chinese). Besides, I'm a whippersnapper, 1920s is plenty ancient :p
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GenghisQuan
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« Reply #1754 on: Jun 22, 2012 04:03 pm »

1. Lin Earth Bending appeared slower than what we see in TLA. Metalbending seems favored because of the speed it offers. While the show lacks the Earthbenders trying to bend the Earth to topple the robots. It just goes to show that either the creators forgot, wanted to lower the power of benders or the Police Force isn't allowed to do it for certain reasons. Just maybe, the mechs cause so much trouble that the Earth Benders don't get a chance to do it depending on the weight of the mechs. They do have magnets to round up and shock Metalbenders.

2. Aang and Zuko are the only ones that had decent close combat fighting against other benders. Aang has used his staff and Air Bending can easily create distance. Zuko is a close combat fighter, because he was trained in using twin swords and can mix it up with his Fire Bending. Either they are Master Benders or trained in some form of close combat; generally benders can't handle close fighting.
Probending is still bending at each other with distance. There is the death-match bout that is close range, but benders have to hit with their element and can't touch each other.
1. Support for metalbending being faster or the cops' earthbending being slower? Seems like every other earthbending - stomp/punch and earth does stuff. And we do see Bolin topple one by himself in the most recent ep, so clearly it's not that much trouble. You would also think that after getting shocked so many times, they'd start intentionally having at least a subsegment of cops go around in leathers or padded cloth armor (sturdier than you think) or just plain old earthen plates. Intentional nerfing is pretty much the only reason I'm seeing.

2. Bending, at the core, is still just martial arts with the added bonus of a range attack. Taking away the range does not take away the martial-arts-ness of it any. Especially if you believe in the traditionalists' claims that all that formwork and meditation are actually very valid ways to build martial art mastery.

(only now just notices the "contstructive criticism" part)
To fix 1, all you really need to do is not make the cops so useless and make the Equalists take more casualties. That thing with the mecha tanks? Just have it where even if the cops topple mechs, they're taking cops with them. If they're trying to board and go for the pilot, have the other ones provide "covering fire" like how you can prevent a real tank from being boarded by demoteams by sweeping them with machine guns - it'll pulp the demoteam but won't go through the tank.

To fix 2, again, just make benders not so useless in melee. Let them take down a few mooks before being defeated.
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tanz
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« Reply #1755 on: Jun 22, 2012 04:11 pm »

I also don't like the technology in the series. I'm a fan of mythology, not steam punk/industrial so it's only natural. I'm sure there were a million ways they could have differentiated it from Aang's story, but the death of the fantasy/myth aspects greatly lessened my enjoyment of it. Pure personal preference, no objectivity implied. The cultural diversity was also inventive and interesting to me, I miss it in Korra. Cities are more homogenous than separate nations, but you definitely can't define them as actually homogenous. I don't even think they explored the Air Acolyte culture well. For a religious group, they seem .. Well I can't say secular, they never really address spirituality/how they compare to the air nomad culture we saw in the first one.

And seriously, there's no reason to think Korra was socially isolated as a kid. She probably spent a lot of time training, but you can't tell me she wouldn't skip class to hang out with the other water tribe kids. She does that exact thing IN THIS SERIES without any hesitation.
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2012 04:13 pm by tanz » Logged
GenghisQuan
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« Reply #1756 on: Jun 22, 2012 05:31 pm »

Going back to some of the previous posts:
I liked probending at first because it seemed to be MMA-bending ball.
Then I realized instead of MMA, it's point sparring. Especially how it's less effective for actual fighting against things than regular bending.
I suppose I should be glad Bryke didn't explicitly use this to make a point about how pro-bending is a sport and therefore good for the ring, but traditional bending trains for the streets.
Because I hear that argument all the time from people who train martial arts with zero representation in inter-art competition. And it's really stupid.
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Singe
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« Reply #1757 on: Jun 22, 2012 05:38 pm »

1. Lin Earth Bending appeared slower than what we see in TLA. Metalbending seems favored because of the speed it offers. While the show lacks the Earthbenders trying to bend the Earth to topple the robots. It just goes to show that either the creators forgot, wanted to lower the power of benders or the Police Force isn't allowed to do it for certain reasons. Just maybe, the mechs cause so much trouble that the Earth Benders don't get a chance to do it depending on the weight of the mechs. They do have magnets to round up and shock Metalbenders.

2. Aang and Zuko are the only ones that had decent close combat fighting against other benders. Aang has used his staff and Air Bending can easily create distance. Zuko is a close combat fighter, because he was trained in using twin swords and can mix it up with his Fire Bending. Either they are Master Benders or trained in some form of close combat; generally benders can't handle close fighting.
Probending is still bending at each other with distance. There is the death-match bout that is close range, but benders have to hit with their element and can't touch each other.
1. Support for metalbending being faster or the cops' earthbending being slower? Seems like every other earthbending - stomp/punch and earth does stuff. And we do see Bolin topple one by himself in the most recent ep, so clearly it's not that much trouble. You would also think that after getting shocked so many times, they'd start intentionally having at least a subsegment of cops go around in leathers or padded cloth armor (sturdier than you think) or just plain old earthen plates. Intentional nerfing is pretty much the only reason I'm seeing.

2. Bending, at the core, is still just martial arts with the added bonus of a range attack. Taking away the range does not take away the martial-arts-ness of it any. Especially if you believe in the traditionalists' claims that all that formwork and meditation are actually very valid ways to build martial art mastery.

(only now just notices the "contstructive criticism" part)
To fix 1, all you really need to do is not make the cops so useless and make the Equalists take more casualties. That thing with the mecha tanks? Just have it where even if the cops topple mechs, they're taking cops with them. If they're trying to board and go for the pilot, have the other ones provide "covering fire" like how you can prevent a real tank from being boarded by demoteams by sweeping them with machine guns - it'll pulp the demoteam but won't go through the tank.

To fix 2, again, just make benders not so useless in melee. Let them take down a few mooks before being defeated.

Given the time span, of the episodes where the mechs first appear in the underground. It seems time was against the Cops from the get go to come up with a counter. Not a lot of info given on the capabilities of the mechs and Lin quit the force. Other priorities took precedent like rounding up non-benders because of Tarlock.

I think Episode 10 had the current Cop in charge asking Tenzin about those mechs.
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Loopy
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« Reply #1758 on: Jun 22, 2012 05:46 pm »

I'm a wanted fugitive in this thread, but I just wanted to link (PG-13 language warning) part 1 and part 2 of this essay. I've mainly focused on LoK's narrative problems, but this rather effectively attacks the themes and makes a case for LoK failing to live up to ATLA in that the original series was a meaningful story, but LoK is just genre fiction.

Note, I don't agree with everything in the essay, and I'm in enough trouble that I probably won't be able to engage much in any debate that results.
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Starnote
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« Reply #1759 on: Jun 22, 2012 06:46 pm »

What I wanted to see (a bit more of at least) was how subcultures in Republic city lived. Like of course the United Republic is like a blend of the 4 nations, but with that there are subcultures within it. Like nonbender culture and lifestyle could be different from bending culture, even if they can be from the same nation. Before the finale, I just wanted to get a bigger picture on how Republic city citizens lived, and how bad nonbenders have it.
Yessh! I wanna see vaudeville and jazz clubs and the implication of bootlegging non-kid friendly beverages noodles yeah... happy noodles. I wanna to see the gang turf wars. I wanna see the oppression (although at this point I'm thinking that this wasn't the point that was trying to be proven). The sad thing is is that a small bit of culture could have been explored though the pro-bending. It's basically boxing and that was a big thing in the 1920's. Even though I'm not big on sports myself I can't deny that they do bring a sense of community and have a culture on their own. Think of seeing benders and nonbenders act out and jump for joy when their team wins? So much could have been shown besides the cosplayers and Tahno's fan pack.

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RuonJian
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« Reply #1760 on: Jun 22, 2012 06:55 pm »

I'm a wanted fugitive in this thread, but I just wanted to link (PG-13 language warning) part 1 and part 2 of this essay. I've mainly focused on LoK's narrative problems, but this rather effectively attacks the themes and makes a case for LoK failing to live up to ATLA in that the original series was a meaningful story, but LoK is just genre fiction.

Note, I don't agree with everything in the essay, and I'm in enough trouble that I probably won't be able to engage much in any debate that results.

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting and pretty dang well-written.

I loved some of the points about how fantasy is dealt with. I think my problem here is that the author can’t seem to decide whether Korra is utterly pointless, or deeply (even intentionally?) morally subversive:

1.   You either don’t care at all about the conflict/characters or you are hoping the "a**hole" protagonists are punished and you are rooting for the Equalists. Can’t have both.
2.   Either the idea of bending is inherently allegorical for the concept of “specialness” or it is completely meaningless and has no real world translation. Can’t have both.


But fundamentally I think what I disagree with most is the implication that you can only appreciate “a good story” if you adhere to the essential morality of the work (or what you PERCIEVE to be the essential morality). Something that commands your attention and forces you to wrestle mightily with its concepts should have some worth to you on its own in my opinion. (Er, unless this person had to watch Korra for school or something?) The biggest irony is that this person is clearly getting more out of Korra critically than I am. Tongue

Also, what did you do to make yourself a wanted fugitive in this thread???
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I keep Korra's pout and Lin Beifong's stylish trench coat.
Singe
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« Reply #1761 on: Jun 22, 2012 06:57 pm »

There should have been more to Amon. I could see him being similar to The Shredder TMNT (4Kids). That whole threatening look and always making the Turtles freak out every-time they see him.  
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High Elemental
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« Reply #1762 on: Jun 22, 2012 07:07 pm »

I'm a wanted fugitive in this thread, but I just wanted to link (PG-13 language warning) part 1 and part 2 of this essay. I've mainly focused on LoK's narrative problems, but this rather effectively attacks the themes and makes a case for LoK failing to live up to ATLA in that the original series was a meaningful story, but LoK is just genre fiction.

Note, I don't agree with everything in the essay, and I'm in enough trouble that I probably won't be able to engage much in any debate that results.
This was a good article and I'm really starting to get the feeling that Mike and Bryan didn't even understand their own work. Though I would have to agree that if the finale proved to be a brutal dismantling of the entire plot showing that Amon is indeed right and he's forcing all the benders to wake the hell up it would be truly brilliant. But I'm really starting to doubt it, Korra is really just the TV show equivalent to a crappy fantasy YA novel.

I really wonder what happened after the first two episodes, because the transition in quality is just utterly jarring.
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #1763 on: Jun 22, 2012 07:20 pm »

We interrupt your regularly scheduled hate rants to say that a new rule has been implemented. Thread will be unlocked after we determine that most people are aware of the rule.
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2012 07:34 pm by Icy_Ashford » Logged



I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
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