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Question: Rate This Episode:
10 - 105 (53.6%)
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Author Topic: [118] The Waterbending Master  (Read 18671 times)
Fionordequester
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« Reply #100 on: Oct 18, 2010 05:31 pm »

EDIT:  I forgot to mention, but special thanks to Mooseboy108 for making one of the videos I used in this log.  Out of the four videos I feature, his is the one with slow motion.

Hey guys, it is here that we start what is probably going to be the most....challenging leg of this journey, especially for our heroes.  We all know how edgy Mike and Brian can be.  They simply do not shy away from some topics that most would tiptoe around in their kids cartoons.  Inevitably, they're going to have to cover some painful topics, because if there's anything that Episode 17 has alluded to, death, and other traumatic things WILL happen, perhaps...even to important characters.  I have never watched this of the cartoon, however, I'm getting the feeling that this is going to be a very painful watch indeed....  

It's odd really.  For how much I've been anticipating the end of Season 1, I wondered why I was so slow to post the rest of the logs for Season 1.  All this time, I thought it was simple laziness, however, after thinking about my predictions about the next few Episodes, and perhaps listening to 4:12-5:12 of "Goku's Spirit Bomb" on Youtube one too many times, I'm starting to suspect that there's been another reason.  Will my grim visions come to fruitition?  Find out in the next coming days on...
 
                                                 Avatar: The Last Airbender!
 
So, starting with Katara and Aang switching their usual roles in terms of their relationship with Sokka, it's here that I immediately wonder why the Gaang never decided to give Appa a rest if he was so tired.  And just why were the Water Benders so rude in how they introduced themselves to Aang?  Seriously, I thought they were going to either fight the Gaang or capture them based on their actions.  They couldn't have just said "hey, we're over here"?
 
Speaking of rude, at first, I was quite opposed to Sokka hitting on Yue even with Suki still out there.  However, as Artefacto on AvatarPortal has pointed out, it really was nothing serious after all, so Sokka is spared my snarkiness this time.  It's a good thing to, I would've rode his keister on that one.  And considering how much of that Katara already gives him at times....
 
Sokka: So uh you're a Princess!  You know, back in my tribe, I'm kinda like a Prince myself!
Katara: Ha! Prince of what?
Sokka: A lot of things! Uh, do you mind? I'm trying to have a conversation here!
Katara: My apologies, Prince Sokka.


Ugh, Katara, can you at least wait until he's done talking with Yue before you start busting his balls?  Seriously!  I mean, the guy was clearly nervous and trying to strike up conversation however he can, we don't need your backseat driving!  I really just cannot understand why she does this sometimes, she's usually a nice girl otherwise.  Maybe if she hadn't thrown him off of his game, we wouldn't have had lines like this...
 
Sokka: So it looks like I'm gonna be in town for awhile. I'm thinking maybe we could....do an activity together?

When you're trying to get with a girl, this has got to be one of the most awkward lines you can possibly throw out, I swear.  It's a good thing Yue's so understanding...
 
Katara: Very smooth.

Well maybe if you hadn't so rudely interrupted him, he would've done better.  I mean, the guy was doing fine before that.  It wasn't until after Katara's little outburst that he started losing his cool and stumbling over his lines.  Jeez louise....
 
Still, I did really like Sokka's conversation with Yue.  It was cute, and I thought it characterized Yue well right from the get go.  I think it's kind of cool how well they characterized her in this Episode in general actually, despite how little dialouge and screen time she had....
 
I mean, you know some of those girls?  You know, the kind that make a lot of facial expressions and faces at what you say, and make you nervous as a result, but, it's not out of unintelligence or mockery?  You know, they're just curious people who enjoy observing people they consider interesting, and like getting real involved in conversations?  I'm not sure I'm perfectly describing it, but, it's like one of those unique kind of girls.  That's the impression I get from Yue, and I like the animation on her facial expressions throughout her conversations.  She seems pretty polite and understanding to, fortunately for Sokka.
 
Unfortunately for Zuko, Zhao is not so polite.  As a matter of fact, aside from putting two and two together and figuring that Zuko was the Blue Spirit, I think Zhao was pretty stupid in this Episode, as usual, contrary to what some reviewers of this Episode think.  I mean, I can get why Zhao's plan seems like an act of "ingenuity" at first glance.  I mean, not only is he gaining more men, but he's rendering his rival paralyzed without a crew...but see, when you start really thinking about it, it's just another example of Zhao's lack of foresight, to me at least...
 
First, lets look at the Risk vs. Reward aspect of Zhao's decision.  Even in the unlikely scenario that everyone in Zuko's crew is fully and 100% willing to side with Zhao and not betray him at some inopportune moment....well, big whoop.  We already know that Zuko's "crew" is nothing but a ragtag group of the most incompetent bunch of ninnies in the Fire Nation, so even if they don't pose any problems, they're still gonna be almost completely worthless, making Zhao's trip a waste.  Secondly, why is Zhao so willing to trust Iroh?  Zhao already knows that he's Zuko's Uncle, which already creates the problem of familial bonds, and he's already seen in Episode 3 that Iroh's just as willing to lie as Zuko is.  Is he really so dumb that he actually believed Iroh when he denied that he was in on the whole "Blue Spirit" debacle, the same way he was in on Zuko hiding the Avatar's existence from the world in Episode 3?
 
Personally, if I were Zhao, I would've either taken the Cook and the Helmsman and nobody else, or I would've had all of the crew killed.  Now, thanks to his idiocy, he now has to face the very likely possibility that Iroh and his compatriots are going to throw a monkey wrench into his designs.  Heck, it's not even a very smart move to recruit Iroh politically.  If Zhao wins and it's a known fact that Iroh assisted him, there's always gonna be that lingering question in peoples minds..."Did Zhao really win out of his own talent, or did Iroh, 'The Great Hero of the Fire Nation', do most of the legwork"?
 
Speaking of idiocy, it seems that Aang's would be master, Pakku, is a raging misogynist.  This doesn't sit well with Aang and Katara of course, as they raise a big stink about it.  Yep, they lived in the Kyoshi Village from Episode 4, with this EXACT SAME form of gender discrimination, except with boys not being allowed to fight, and didn't seem to give it much thought.  Oh, but now that it's WOMEN who are being discriminated, oh no, NOW it's an issue!  Sigh...still, these ARE children we're talking about, so maybe this is just something they needed to make them fully aware of the hurts and pains of gender discrimination.  Also...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDwUjkT01UU
 
C,mon Aang, are you seriously telling me you weren't able to see that coming?  I mean, I guess it wasn't as embarrasing as your capture at the hands of the Kyoshi Warriors, but still, it never even occurred to you to raise your hands or flinch or anything?  You've got better reflexes than that man, c,mon!  You can do this!
 
By the way, before moving on to the next big thing, I'd like to point out something.  Did anybody else notice that the song that plays during Sokka and Yue's second conversation happens to be a remix of Iroh's "Four Seasons, Four Loves" song near the beginning?  I thought that was a nice touch...still though...
 
Sokka: So, I'm still hoping we can see more of each other.
Princess Yue: "Do an activity", you mean?
Sokka: Yes! At a place....for some time!

 
Will you stop phrasing it like that?!  Seriously, it's like he's trying to insert innuendo.  Anyways, we cut to Zuko for his exchange with Iroh...
 
Iroh: The crew wanted me to wish you safe travels.
Zuko: Good riddance to those traitors.

 
...Um...Zuko, they didn't exactly have a choice in the matter.  From what I can tell, the only one who had a choice was Iroh, and that was only because Iroh whooped his butt in Episode 3.  And even if they did have a choice, their loyalty is to the Fire Nation, not you.  They were only your escorts because they were assigned to you, and now that's changed.  Unless your anger here is really just another one of your psychological shields, you're gonna have to get over it.
 
Still, in terms of sheer physical ability, it's absolutely AMAZING the way he defends himself against the bomb explosion.  I mean, at first glance, it looks like he was caught off guard, but if you look very carefully at what happened, you'll see that in actuality, what happens here is probably the 2nd most badass thing to happen in this show, and without a doubt Zuko's finest moment.  I mean, lets take a look at this moment in slow motion, so you can SEE just how awesome Zuko was in this moment...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUv1AroWbew
 
I remember wondering how the H.F.I.L. Zuko survived it, so, it was as I was looking at screenshots and repeatedly pausing and unpausing the video that I discovered this moment of awesome.  
 
Basically, Zuko momentarily loses his balance, but actually recovers his balance and summoning two orbs of fire in his hands at the SAME TIME as he's getting blown back by an explosion.  Then, he gets into a horse stance, and summons a shield of fire so strong, that it actually holds up AS THE EXPLOSION IS PASSING OVER IT, so strong in fact, that by the time the shield breaks, the only thing the explosion can give him is a few scratches and bruises.  And, he does all of this in ONLY ONE SECOND!!  That's right, had Mooseboy not slowed it down, that whole entire moment wouldn't have lasted longer than a second!!  It truly has to be seen, in both slow motion and regular motion, to be believed.  Seriously, I could keep replaying that clip all day, in both motions.
 
I cannot even imagine the sheer amount of speed, power, co-ordination, technique, and reflexes one would have needed to have to do what Zuko did.  Just on this sheer display of awesomeness, I starting to wonder if Zuko could actually beat Aang at this point.  His reflexes certainly seem to be better than "can't dodge a slow, telegraphed water attack" Aang.  I think Aang could learn a thing or two from Iroh, he sure seems to be teaching Zuko some awesome stuff.  See what happens when you don't get all anal about just how advanced of a set you're learning?  It's hard to believe that there was actually a time when I considered Zuko to be one of the most pathetic villains I've ever seen, I swear.
 
Still, let me get this straight.  Zuko was able to do all of this, is a fricken Ninja Master, can take hits like Ironman himself....and yet, his younger sister....IS STRONGER....than he is....now that's a scary thought.  
 
Anyways, Sokka gets dumped (with yet another remix of "Four Seasons, Four Loves" playing as Yue runs away), Sokka has a bit of irritation...
 
Sokka: I don't get it. One minute she wants to go out with me and the next she's telling me to get lost!  So how's waterbending training?
 
Oh, Sokka, you silly silly man.  Don't you remember what you said in Episode 14?  You gotta act aloof, like you just don't CARE one way or the other!  C,mon Aang, you gotta show us that when Aang came to you, he came to the right place!  

And speaking of being in places, it seems that after Aang tries to teach Katara waterbending, they're caught by Pakku...who I guess was just...spieing on them for...whatever reason...I mean really, just what was he doing there?  Is the guy just following them or what?  What a douche...
 
Chief Arnook: What do you want me to do? Force Master Pakku to take Aang back as his student?
 
Um...how about getting a different teacher?  Is Pakku like the only guy there who has students?  Is he the most qualified?  It's hard to imagine, seeing how much of a douche he is.  So much so, that Katara does the unexpected and actually challenges Pakku to a fight.  I was completely caught off guard by that, and it's around this time that I started realizing how awesome this Episode was going to get.  But, we'll get to that in a moment, we've got a scene with a certain "stupid pill snorting stooge" to deal with...
 
Zhao: I'm devastated to hear about Prince Zuko....just, devastated!

Yes, as the way you tried to murder him and his entire crew in Episode 8 clearly suggests.  And of course, Mr. Lie Detector here can't seem to figure out that even if Iroh did know who was really responsible for Zuko's attempted assassination, that he's probably not going to tell him that to his face while he's in his lair, all alone without any backup to prevent any treachery.  Why is he so slow to suspect Iroh of duplicity when he was so quick to catch on to Zuko's since Episode 3, anyways?  I guess Iroh's just a much better actor.
 
So, Katara vs. Pakku!  Can Katara do a good job against him?  Well...yes and no.  On one hand, being surrounded by water, both liquid and solid, seems to have done a lot for her ability to summon attacks, explaining why her attacks are so much more potent here than anywhere else (I've seen some people wonder why she's so much better here when she usually stinks in a fight).  On the other hand, as I'm watching this fight it occurs to me that in some ways, especially in fisticuffs, Katara kind of...rough around the edges shall we say...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpSt7e1xfak
 
Nice effort Katara, but you may want to wait until you can actually reach your opponents face before you start punching...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWmZ2AgYLzw
 
Now who else but Katara could've possibly figured out that a Van Damme tackle was the best way to go when your opponent is summoning up a thick, 12 foot long blast of concentrated water to fire at you from 20 feet away?
 
But, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't impressed by her performance.  As a matter of fact, I was actually amazed by how well she handled herself.  She didn't freeze up in fear at any point in the match, she did a great job of pushing through what must've been an extremely painful series of attacks, and some of her attacks actually looked really powerful...perhaps a little too powerful...
 
Seriously, has it occurred to anyone else how violent this match was?  Do you have any idea how badly the two could've hurt each other had they been unluckier?  I mean, first we have Pakku making Katara go so high into the air that, had she not been as lucky as she had been in landing, would've probably cracked her head open or at least have suffered a few broken bones.  Then we have those sheets of razor sharp ice that Katara was sending at Pakku, which looks as though they could have easily gashed him open had he made one slip up.  Then, we have those extremely heavy looking blocks that Katara dropped on Pakku, all of them looking as though they could've made a pancake out of him.  And finally, we end with those sharp, heavy spikes that look like they could've decapitated Katara had Pakku made even one error in his execution...
 
It seems odd to me that none of the bystanders seemed to mind at all how much risk the two were putting each other in.  I mean really, I know they both had a point to prove, but it still seemed pretty extreme.  
 
Of course, as long as we're talking about danger, it's nice to see Katara's necklace actually getting the Gaang out of hotwater for once!  It's too bad for Pakku though, the way I understand it...
 
Master Pakku: I carved this necklace for your grandmother when we got engaged. I thought we would have a long, happy life together. I loved her.
Katara: But she didn't love you, did she?

 
I'll say.  So basically she knew he loved her, yet, she left without saying goodbye and didn't even bother to return the necklace that Pakku MADE for their marriage?  Jeez, either Katara's grandmother was an irresponsible gold digger, or Pakku was an even BIGGER douche back then than was in this Episode (hard as that is to believe).  Or, maybe Gran Gran was a bit absentminded, I don't know, I guess I shouldn't be so hasty...
 
Princess Yue: I do like you! A lot. But, we can't be together, and not for the reason you think...

Oh...oh no...please, don't tell me...you're going to...
 
Princess Yue: It's because, I'm engaged. I'm sorry!
 
....Oh, PHEW!  That's a relief!  See guys?  This is why you shouldn't be so quick to make hasty assumptions!  Heh, it's funny, I mean, I personally thought that there was...um, there was um...ahem, another reason why it would've been a VERY bad idea for Sokka to get too attached to her.  Maybe I should just learn to max and relax!  I'm stressing myself out over nothing!  I've gotta learn to be positive, more...upbeat!  Yeah.
 
Anyways, that's it for me.  As for the grade, this Episode is kind of a strange case for me.  There are a lot of neat little touches that I really like, but then there are some little things that seem kind of...off.  I thought it was a very nice touch how there would be "Four Seasons, Four Loves" playing in most of the scenes that Sokka and Yue shared, and I still really enjoy how they characterized Yue simply through the subtle facial expressions she had.  I loved the voice actor for Pakku, I enjoyed his performance very much.  And despite his douchiness, I found him entertaining, and even funny at times  And don't even get me started on how awesome Zuko, who is VERY MUCH alive, was in this Episode...
 
Unfortunately, Zuko is kind of the start of the little things that irk me somewhat.  First of all, I think it was a bad move for the writers to reveal that Zuko was alive.  Personally, had I been quality checking the Episode, I would've altered the scene to be like this instead...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGz7hZeF_J8

Yeah, I know my editing isn't anything great, so...hey, here's to hoping that I'm at least better than 4Kids.  Anyways, I just think that this way of showing Iroh's duplicity would've been just as effective without sacrificing any of the drama of Zuko's supposed death.  Plus, it would've still been somewhat implied that Zuko survived, especially if you look carefully between 0:16-0:18.

And again, why is Zhao so willing to turn a blind eye to any danger Iroh might pose?  Pretty much the only talent Zhao's EVER had, from beginning to end, has been the ability to sniff out deception.  And now, even that's being flushed down the drain?  Now that's just cruel.  But most of all, just what the H.F.I.L. was up with the way the Water Tribe practically shot the Gaang down in the beggining of the episode.  Seriously, what WAS that?!  So, all in all, I guess I'll give it an A-.  There are some things that bugged me, but also some things I really liked....

Hmm...by the way, is it just me, or am I referring back to Episode 3 a lot lately?
« Last Edit: Oct 18, 2010 07:51 pm by Fionordequester » Logged
Shard
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DragonRoseShard
« Reply #101 on: Oct 18, 2010 06:16 pm »

Oh Zhoa just when I think you can't get any dumber, he's about to put the Crowning Stupid moment of all in the last two Episodes.

Thanks for showing that clip of Zuko I had no idea how he survived that! Yes Zuko is baddass but I have heard it said that Zuko is like a High School football player that has been put into the Olympic league athletes. Yes his sister is more powerful, shes' a prodigy while he has had to struggle for everything. She can do things easier then he and things he can't even do. I am actually excited for you to finish this season and move on to the next. Just judging from your reactions to S1 so far.

On the topic of Sokka and Katara I feel these two represent the kind of siblings that have alot of rivalry and though they can fight they do care for each other. Unlike another pair of siblings that you have only met half of. I know she is busting his balls but siblings really do do that. I speak from experience on that one.

The Kyoshi warriors I feel have different reasons for not recruiting men into their order, unlike with Pakku who had personal reasons besides just tradition. I think there are some men who would be immature about fighting with the women, I also think that the Men and women are in segregated fighting groups. The girls are also honoring the female Avatar Kyoshi which I think is the biggest reason most of all they are personifying a woman and most men don't have the gonads to do that. I don't think they would look down on men and think they aren't strong enough to fight, more like this is a girls club sort of thing.

Whereas Pakku and and the NWT feel that women should only heal period.

I was also thrown off by Sokka putting the moves on Yue, I had to go back and see as well that what Suki and Sokka had was a "fling" and no commitment at all. So Sokka was a free agent, but yeah it threw me off as well.

I am curious what did you think Yue was going to say that she couldn't be with Sokka for? 
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Fionordequester
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« Reply #102 on: Oct 18, 2010 06:42 pm »

Oh Zhoa just when I think you can't get any dumber, he's about to put the Crowning Stupid moment of all in the last two Episodes.

Oh...

Thanks for showing that clip of Zuko I had no idea how he survived that! Yes Zuko is baddass but I have heard it said that Zuko is like a High School football player that has been put into the Olympic league athletes. Yes his sister is more powerful, shes' a prodigy while he has had to struggle for everything. She can do things easier then he and things he can't even do. I am actually excited for you to finish this season and move on to the next. Just judging from your reactions to S1 so far.

High School?  I think Captain of the College Football team is more accurate at this point.  And with Iroh, one of the great personal trainers in the world, Zuko is sure to become more.

On the topic of Sokka and Katara I feel these two represent the kind of siblings that have alot of rivalry and though they can fight they do care for each other. Unlike another pair of siblings that you have only met half of. I know she is busting his balls but siblings really do do that. I speak from experience on that one.

I see.  See, I've never had any siblings that weren't significantly older than me, so I guess I wouldn't know.  It's too bad, I kind of wish I had someone either as old as me or younger.    

The Kyoshi warriors I feel have different reasons for not recruiting men into their order, unlike with Pakku who had personal reasons besides just tradition. I think there are some men who would be immature about fighting with the women, I also think that the Men and women are in segregated fighting groups. The girls are also honoring the female Avatar Kyoshi which I think is the biggest reason most of all they are personifying a woman and most men don't have the gonads to do that. I don't think they would look down on men and think they aren't strong enough to fight, more like this is a girls club sort of thing.  Whereas Pakku and and the NWT feel that women should only heal period.

I see.  Personally, I wouldn't have cared who I was personifying, so long as it was somebody I really admired.

Still, what do you think of my editing?  That's the first time I had ever attempted to rearrange scenes like that, and it was quite a bit harder than I thought it would be.  It's a good thing I had Windows Movie Maker, otherwise, I don't think I would've been able to do it at all.  As a matter of fact, I'm gonna redo it right now.  Iroh's dialouge doesn't quite synch up as well as I would like...be right back...
« Last Edit: Oct 18, 2010 06:50 pm by Fionordequester » Logged
Mr Grieves
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« Reply #103 on: Oct 18, 2010 06:48 pm »

I'm also curious as to what you thought Yue was going to say. Also, regarding the comparison with the Kyoshi warriors, discrimination against females has much more attached to it than discrimination against males. Whereas the Kyoshi warriors probably just wish to honour Avatar Kyoshi (as Shard said), Pakku's rules, while also being in line with their traditions, come with implications about girls being unable to fight or it being socially unacceptable for them to do so.

As for Aang's reflexes (I'm struggling to remember the context of it though) it looks like he's surprised that Pakku would be enough of a douche to take him out like that. Was this their first training or what?

Good review all in all, I like your semi-stream-of-consciousness style. I'll keep reading these.
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Fionordequester
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« Reply #104 on: Oct 18, 2010 06:51 pm »

Yes, it was their first session together.
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Zak Crimsonleaf
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« Reply #105 on: Oct 18, 2010 06:52 pm »

All right, presuming nobody else sneaks in ahead of me, I'll give my thoughts on the things you mention, in order. And thanks for keeping these up, I'm also really looking forward to you moving on to Book 2.

Quote
it's here that I immediately wonder why the Gaang never decided to give Appa a rest if he was so tired.  And just why were the Water Benders so rude in how they introduced themselves to Aang?  Seriously, I thought they were going to either fight the Gaang or capture them based on their actions.  They couldn't have just said "hey, we're over here"?

They keep on flying because as Sokka says, there's nothing up there, including nothing to land on. There's a big gap between the northern Earth Kingdom coast and the arctic continent. And the tribesmen themselves attakc, I think, because they've never seen a sky bison for a century, much less with people on it, and after spending much of this time alert for Fire Nation attacks, they're inclined to bend first and ask questions later.

I agree with Shard that Sokka and Katara do argue with each other like that every so often and that Katara just picked a bad time to do so, and with the comment about the Kyoshi Warriors and comparing them to Water Tribe tradition.


Quote
First, lets look at the Risk vs. Reward aspect of Zhao's decision.  Even in the unlikely scenario that everyone in Zuko's crew is fully and 100% willing to side with Zhao and not betray him at some inopportune moment....well, big whoop.  We already know that Zuko's "crew" is nothing but a ragtag group of the most incompetent bunch of ninnies in the Fire Nation, so even if they don't pose any problems, they're still gonna be almost completely worthless, making Zhao's trip a waste.  Secondly, why is Zhao so willing to trust Iroh?  Zhao already knows that he's Zuko's Uncle, which already creates the problem of familial bonds, and he's already seen in Episode 3 that Iroh's just as willing to lie as Zuko is.  Is he really so dumb that he actually believed Iroh when he denied that he was in on the whole "Blue Spirit" debacle, the same way he was in on Zuko hiding the Avatar's existence from the world in Episode 3?

Compared to Zhao's fleet, Zuko's crew won't make that much of a dent, and he could always split them among different ships, so any threat they present would be minimal. He doesn't kill them because it's bad form to go around executing Fire Navy sailors just because he feels like it. And as for trusting Iroh, he doesn't trust him. More on that late, as you'll see in the last couple episodes. But he's not concerned about Iroh getting the credit. Iroh, though respected, had his career end in disgrace at Ba Sing Se, and he fought on land, not at sea.

Quote
Still, let me get this straight.  Zuko was able to do all of this, is a fricken Ninja Master, can take hits like Ironman himself....and yet, his younger sister....IS STRONGER....than he is....now that's a scary thought.

That's a very good point about Zuko, I didn't really appreciate that when I first saw the episode. Well, he has been getting a lot of combat experience lately and pretty much has to learn fast. And yes, his sister is indeed scary. I could say more ,but I won't.

Yes, I did spot the 'Four Seasons' bits and enjoyed them. It's subtle soundtrack touches like that that really make a lot of moments in the series. That's all the stuff I can think of for now. Thanks again.
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Avatar Fanfiction: Scorched Earth: http://forums.avatarspirit.net/index.php?topic=15639
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Shard
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DragonRoseShard
« Reply #106 on: Oct 18, 2010 07:39 pm »

Yes Fionordequestor, I appreciate the editing you did as I said it clarified how Zuko survived the fire attack.

It may seem harsh but I'm just saying that there are FB's who are significantly more powerful then Zuko, he's sort of the runt of the family. However what he lacks in ability he more then makes up for in fighting spirit and tenacity. Not to mention saying he's the least of an elite family of FB's is pretty much saying he's Badass over everyone else.

Remember how angry you were about Zhao shooting his own ship? Yeah this next thing is like that, only times a million.

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Fionordequester
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« Reply #107 on: Oct 18, 2010 07:49 pm »

No, what I meant was the video near the end where I said how I would've handled the scene where Zuko and Iroh talked about how they were going to one up Zhao.  Sorry bout the confusion.

By the way, I wasn't the one who made the video with the slow motion, that was a guy called Mooseboy108.  I should've remembered to credit him in the beginning of the log.  So, I shall rectify that.  And I don't think it's harsh, I can see why you would be annoyed if you thought that was the video I was talking about.  Anyways, you don't have to worry about it.

Also, I wouldn't say I was angry at Zhao.  I was more stupefied, stunned, than anything else.
« Last Edit: Oct 18, 2010 08:03 pm by Fionordequester » Logged
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« Reply #108 on: Oct 18, 2010 09:56 pm »

negatives:
-the Sokka/Yue relationship is a bit rushed
-Yue is kind of overly dramatic during some scenes

rating: 10

I agree. Sokka just got over Suki after spotting the next piece of tail - of course, at that time they weren't really a pair. Suki just opened his eyes on the concept of women being capable of doing more.
Just asking? Why are you talking about this and not about the episode in general.
...so people are only supposed to make general comments about the whole episode and not specific details?
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« Reply #109 on: Oct 19, 2010 12:35 am »

Just a thought but i didn't see any nwt girls in pakku's class.
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« Reply #110 on: Oct 19, 2010 03:31 pm »

Women aren't allowed to learn bending in the NWT, only healing.
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« Reply #111 on: Oct 19, 2010 10:48 pm »

I'm talking about after pakku changed.
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« Reply #112 on: Oct 19, 2010 11:19 pm »

Well, it's only been like two or three weeks since the revelation, so I wouldn't expect any other female students yet.  They'd probably not be ready to train at the level of Pakku's students yet.  Plus, I'm not even sure Pakku learned his lesson so much as he's just making an exception for Katara,
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« Reply #113 on: Oct 20, 2010 06:15 pm »

Ah I see the video edit now I see what you mean, though honestly I don't think many really would have been that shocked really. The edit however did show a bit of Zuko's scarred face though. I don't think most would be fooled into thinking that Iroh was just talking to some random guard to help him capture the Avatar when  he has shown little to no desire to even do so. I would expect Iroh to be getting drunk somewhere if he thought Zuko dead.

As for Pakku I do think he has learned his lesson, I do feel a part of the No girls rule was due to Sokka and Katara's gran leaving him. He was bitter, if that hadn't happened he may have been more open to the idea. As for his refusal to help Aang, theres this thing called Pride.
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« Reply #114 on: Oct 20, 2010 06:23 pm »

Eh, I still would've done it just in case there was someone who'd be surprised.  I mean, this cartoon IS aimed at 6-11 year olds (hard as that is to believe), so I wouldn't expect everyone one of them to have instantly figured out that that was Zuko.  And actually, you know what?  Now that I think of it, I'm almost certain that Pakku has learned his lesson, and is in fact, going off to be re-acquinted with a certain someone in Episode 20, if you know who I mean (he gives a different reason of course, but, now that I think of it, I believe there's another underlying motive).
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« Reply #115 on: Nov 09, 2010 12:31 am »

I loved this episode because pakku was just funny and we get to see more water tribe culture.
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« Reply #116 on: Jun 10, 2011 08:45 pm »

this is one of the few episodes that i like katara in. I enjoyed the fact that they made the two tribes different in dragstic ways. Eventho the two tribes are initicially the same they do many things different(arranged marriages, a womans place in society, etc.)
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« Reply #117 on: Oct 07, 2013 10:37 am »

Yo. Know it's interesting watching this episode again after having caught up with Korra.  I'm assuming Unaloq and Tonraq aren't direct descendants of Chief Arnook, since I see no mention of kids other than Yue.

I love the visual style of the north here.  Everything looks so grand and elegant and even with the limited color palate it jumps off the screen. 

I do have a few issues with the episode.  Nothing to kill it but a few things that could have been handled a little better.  Like the whole relationship between Yue and Sokka, and this really speaks to the next two episode too.  Believe me I think it was really sweet, but it just went by far too quickly for it to have this much of an impact on Sokka.  I think that another episode to really let the foundation sink in would have been great. 

Also, Pakku's rampant sexism made me feel a little uncomfortable. Sure he relented in the end (after finding out Katara was Kanna's granddaughter) but still... What a douche.  Wonder what Korra would have done if he trained her.

Overall a pretty good episode but not as strong as it could have been.

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« Reply #118 on: Oct 07, 2013 05:00 pm »

I a gee about the Sokka/Yue thing. It would have benefited from an extra episode but think it works the way it is. It gets the point across and I think its implied that they were in the North Pole for a couple of weeks so Sokka and Yue spent more time together then we saw.

My favorite part of the episode is the Zhao moments though. I thought it was a great build up to the finale, especially the last shot in the epsidoe of his fleet moving out. You know things are going to get serious when seeing that.
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« Reply #119 on: Oct 07, 2013 06:53 pm »

Sokka and Yue is one of those romances I don't really buy on its own terms but its payoff in the final is so well done that I don't mind.
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« Reply #120 on: Oct 07, 2013 07:03 pm »

Sokka and Yue is one of those romances I don't really buy on its own terms but its payoff in the final is so well done that I don't mind.

It came off as a hormones thing to me, honestly.

The politics of their relationship is interesting. Yue's engaged, but she's carrying on an affair in what seems to be broad daylight. Arnook seems understanding of it, too; sending Hahn off on a suicide mission while keeping Sokka home. A cynical way of reading that is that his consent saves his daughter a seat on the last bison out of the North Pole.
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« Reply #121 on: Oct 07, 2013 07:11 pm »

Sokka and Yue is one of those romances I don't really buy on its own terms but its payoff in the final is so well done that I don't mind.

I generally agree, but think one more episode would have really perfected it.  Especially considering how much it seems to have affected Sokka long term.

Sokka and Yue is one of those romances I don't really buy on its own terms but its payoff in the final is so well done that I don't mind.

It came off as a hormones thing to me, honestly.

The politics of their relationship is interesting. Yue's engaged, but she's carrying on an affair in what seems to be broad daylight. Arnook seems understanding of it, too; sending Hahn off on a suicide mission while keeping Sokka home. A cynical way of reading that is that his consent saves his daughter a seat on the last bison out of the North Pole.

I'm not even really sure Arnook thought much of it.  Do we even know that he knew what was going on?
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« Reply #122 on: Oct 07, 2013 08:06 pm »

Sokka and Yue is one of those romances I don't really buy on its own terms but its payoff in the final is so well done that I don't mind.

I generally agree, but think one more episode would have really perfected it.  Especially considering how much it seems to have affected Sokka long term.

I think it could have benefited from more time together after Sokka was ordered to protect her (it could have been done earlier?). Its a good reason for them to spend time together in a more tense situation (I think when there's tension you get romance easier). As it stands they didn't have much of a reason to spend time together when getting to know each other, so it all hangs on their feelings for each other, which is probably I find it a little weak. Its not a deal-breaker though.
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« Reply #123 on: Oct 07, 2013 08:20 pm »

Or maybe Bryke just should have thrown the whole Hahn part out so Yue and Sokka could just deepen their relationship without the whole 'I'm engaged' thing. I mean, Hahn didn't really amount into anything worthwhile.
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« Reply #124 on: Oct 07, 2013 08:21 pm »

Or maybe Bryke just should have thrown the whole Hahn part out so Yue and Sokka could just deepen their relationship without the whole 'I'm engaged' thing. I mean, Hahn didn't really amount into anything worthwhile.

I dunno, his fate was pretty funny Cheesy
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