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Author Topic: Afterlife  (Read 1272 times)
Ratel
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« on: Oct 08, 2010 07:39 pm »

i am just wondering if anyone knows if the avatars in the afterlife can connect with non-avatars in the after life? is there in bonding after people die? can people and avatars that pass away communicate or even hang out in the after life?
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DuskQ
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 08, 2010 08:41 pm »

Since the avatar is reincarnated, I should think the avatar past lives don't stay in the afterlife for long. I the web comic Aang had to reconnect with his past four lives in order to rebuild the avatar cycle. He nearly died for good. Presumably there would have been no reincarnation.

Second, I do think people bond after they die. Roku and Gyatso were friends when studying at the air temple. Then Gyatso became Aang's most devoted guardian.

Third, yes, I would think that an Avatar could reconnect with people who did no return to the physical world. What I would find interesting is when and with whom would the Avatar Spirit choose to connect. After all, after so many lifetimes, the Avatar has made many friends and lovers. Upon Aang's death would the Avatar spirit channel Kuruk and go back to challenge Koh for Ummi's spirit again? Would an age old vendetta like that interfere with other Avatar lives going to find their friends, families, and lovers? For instance, if the Avatar spirit isn't struggling with Kuruk's vendetta upon the brief moment he is in the afterlife, I would think Aang would reunite with his people, particularly Gyatso. Albeit the reunion would be brief unless Spirit world time doesn't match up with physical world time. The Avatar would have to soon be reincarnated into the next waterbender, i.e. Korra.
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Cactus Quench
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 08, 2010 08:43 pm »

I don't think normal people have an afterlife. The afterlife concept is more of an Abrahamic concept.
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DuskQ
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 12, 2010 08:45 pm »

^There are many notions of an afterlife not just "Abrahamic" or Christian or Jewish.

I think regular people in this would can be reincarnated or stay in the spirit world. Maybe it's up to the person, maybe it has to do with how they lived their lives. This conversation can easily turn into a reflections of people's own beliefs. The show doesn't deal in what happens after a character dies too much, unless it's the Avatar Spirit in question.
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Lordmistery
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 05, 2019 03:20 pm »

Hi!

So I don't know if this here is still alive, but lets try. So I've been a member here before some years back. And I kinda missed it so I decided to return.
A question I've recently been thinking about was whether there could be an afterlife in the Avatar universe.
I just cant deal with the idea of that beloved characters are gone for good.
So what do you think? could there be an afterlife  ? I believe it was confirmed that the spirit world is not really the same as the after life, right ?
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Aerial
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 05, 2019 05:36 pm »

I've always assumed that everyone in the world of Avatar gets reincarnated when they die, and the Avatar is the only one who can remember his/her previous lives.

I do wonder what happens with people like Guru Pathik who have apparently reached enlightenment. I'm in no way an expert in this topic, but I do remember reading that according to religions like Buddhism, the souls that become enlightened break free from the cycle of reincarnation and are able to attain Nirvana, i.e., a state free of suffering and tethers. Makes you wonder if that applies to the world of Avatar.

I think it might be possible, after all Yangchen tells Aang that the Avatar can never reach enlightenment because his duty is to the world. In other words, she's telling Aang that if he becomes enlightened, he will break free from the world and stop reincarnating... which would leave the world without its Avatar.

It's interesting to think about.
« Last Edit: Mar 05, 2019 05:38 pm by Aerial » Logged

AtoMaki
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 05, 2019 06:04 pm »

I believe it was confirmed that the spirit world is not really the same as the after life, right ?

It isn't, really, but it can be!
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FireNation OrthodoxKnight
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 05, 2019 06:05 pm »

Hi! So I don't know if this here is still alive, but lets try. So I've been a member here before some years back. And I kinda missed it so I decided to return.
A question I've recently been thinking about was whether there could be an afterlife in the Avatar universe. I just cant deal with the idea of that beloved characters are gone for good.
So what do you think? could there be an afterlife  ? I believe it was confirmed that the spirit world is not really the same as the after life, right ?
I just recently joined back in November so i hear ya. My opinion is that for the avatars they are reincarnated since the air benders are suppose to represent they buddhist influence in the Asian world. However my opinion is also that the others like Toph after death do go to the world to come. This where i would say the christian influence drops in regardless of the theological view( Orthodox, Catholic) In season three of one episode Toph brings this question of the afterlife in a more innocent childlike manner, which katara the an idealistic character speaks on its behalf. The only thing they didn't do is describe it because as someone who is religious and study's theology what words can we use to describe something we haven't yet experience. That's my take!
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 05, 2019 07:08 pm »

I've always assumed that everyone in the world of Avatar gets reincarnated when they die, and the Avatar is the only one who can remember his/her previous lives.

I do wonder what happens with people like Guru Pathik who have apparently reached enlightenment. I'm in no way an expert in this topic, but I do remember reading that according to religions like Buddhism, the souls that become enlightened break free from the cycle of reincarnation and are able to attain Nirvana, i.e., a state free of suffering and tethers. Makes you wonder if that applies to the world of Avatar.

I think it might be possible, after all Yangchen tells Aang that the Avatar can never reach enlightenment because his duty is to the world. In other words, she's telling Aang that if he becomes enlightened, he will break free from the world and stop reincarnating... which would leave the world without its Avatar.

It's interesting to think about.

I largely agree with you, and you raise a really good point about Nirvana. I also can't help but wonder about Spirits, and what their reincarnation cycle is like. General Old Iron is taken to have died at the end of The Rift in some interpretations, but the visuals show him changing into a flock of other spirits.

But if spirits can reach Nirvana, then Iroh might still be able to do so.
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Aerial
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 05, 2019 09:17 pm »


I also can't help but wonder about Spirits, and what their reincarnation cycle is like. General Old Iron is taken to have died at the end of The Rift in some interpretations, but the visuals show him changing into a flock of other spirits.


Things get a little complicated when it comes to spirits, don't they.

We know that Tienhai turned into cranefish, and then Old Iron into lobster-like spirits. So if a spirit dies, does it reincarnate into a bunch of new spirits? Do those spirits share one mind? Can they remember their previous life? That seemed to be the case with Tienhai, but if she remembered who she was and could turn back to her original form for a brief time... why didn't she intervene and talk to Old Iron before he started attacking Cranefish Town? And why didn't an ancient being like Old Iron know that spirits take on new forms when they die? Is this post turning into a criticism of The Rift?
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FireNation OrthodoxKnight
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 05, 2019 10:35 pm »

In Nirvana the soul metaphysically according to Buddhism would cease to exist after enlightenment, which means the cycle of rebirth is broken and all suffering is over.That means there would no longer be the human persons body, mind or soul since in their view of essence all is gone. If the spirits have reached Nirvana they would no longer exist in either the material world or immaterial world.

The spirit world gives a feeling of purgatory expect without the waiting till acceptance, or of Hades where the land of the dead is located, and where the souls just stay there forever, or the toll house where the soul is waiting to triumph over the passions to ascend. It's interesting to see that in the spirit world the spirits still have they're minds, souls and a new body of some sort. Even Aang by the way in the spirit world still has his mind and soul along with a new body.
« Last Edit: Mar 05, 2019 10:44 pm by FireNation OrthodoxKnight » Logged

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Loopy
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 07, 2019 06:54 pm »

It's probably worth noting that in some Chinese traditions there are two types of 'souls' within a person, the Hun spirit that reincarnates and the Po spirit that is eternal. I've long thought that if people want to the Past Avatars to literally reside in the Spirit World, it could be case of the Po hanging around there. However, I think that's ruled out by the loss of the Past Avatars in LoK, as if that goes against the idea of an eternal Po.
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Lordmistery
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 08, 2019 03:19 pm »

Loopy, I really love that actually, who knows that still could be the case. Even though the connection is broken why not.

I also really liked what FireNationOrthodoxKnight said. There is a spirit world so why couldn't there be another world like an afterlife.
Maybe its a choice you have or reincarnation or go to the afterlife. I guess we will never know. But it is certainly interesting that scene in ATLA i belive it was in the episode The Avatar and the Firelord or something.

I dont think they will ever confirm anything like this, and maybe thats good too because you can use your own imagination
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Uzuko
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 08, 2019 10:28 pm »

I really can't see the Spirit World as an Afterlife because it has generally been portrayed more as an alien or fairy world than a place where human souls would normally arrive. The only people who ends up their are those who willingly go, those who are trapped, and the Avatar. We haven't actually seen anything that connects the Spirit World to death, the spirits themselves are immortal.
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Loopy
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 09, 2019 08:48 pm »

Yeah, the Spirit World definitely isn't an afterlife. It was ambiguous in AtLA, but LoK confirmed it with Iroh: "Oh, I've been here for many years. I had always enjoyed the company of the spirits. So when my work was done in the Material World, I chose to leave my body behind and come to the Spirit World. It can be a wonderful place, and I've made so many friends."

But I can buy the idea of a separate afterlife. You know, some Elysian Fields to match the use of the classical Greek elements. Avatar has never been purely Asian in its influences.
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 11, 2019 12:21 pm »

I always assumed most dead people were just in a higher realm of the Spirit World that can't be accessed by the living or malevolent spirits. Iroh probably just hangs around in the lower realms because he wants to. In fact, he might not be the only one who did what he did.
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Lordmistery
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 11, 2019 01:20 pm »

wow @Clowngoon I love that theory as well it would make a lot of sense.
As long as Bryke doesnt confirm anything you can always have theory right
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« Reply #17 on: Mar 11, 2019 05:49 pm »

What's the difference between a "higher" realm that offers no back-and-forth access, and two separate realms?
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 13, 2019 09:24 am »

What's the difference between a "higher" realm that offers no back-and-forth access, and two separate realms?
The higher realm is the part of the Spirit World for humans who passed away. There is back-and forth access, but I'd think only Deceased Avatars and Iroh (or anyone else who did what he did) can go back and forth if they want. It might explain why Iroh once made his way to the Spirit World hoping to find Lu Ten. Only realizing that he can't get to the higher plane due to still being alive.

I hope the Fire Nation legacy book gives us more details about it.
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"Some friendships can transcend through lifetimes."

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Loopy
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« Reply #19 on: Mar 14, 2019 06:38 pm »

Did Iroh go looking for Lu Ten in the Spirit World? We know he visited it after Lu Ten's death, but the idea that he was trying to see Lu Ten there is fanon.
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #20 on: Mar 18, 2019 11:26 am »

If the Avatar Extras are canon, that's where it was claimed.
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"Some friendships can transcend through lifetimes."

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Loopy
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 18, 2019 06:06 pm »

Oh, well, those are unreliable at best.

Besides, I tried to look up the Extra in question, and I found one from Zuko Alone that says, "Rumor alert: Some think this is when Iroh traveled into the Spirit World to find his son." So that's just talking about the fanon.
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Clowngoon
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« Reply #22 on: Mar 20, 2019 11:06 am »

Oh, well, those are unreliable at best.

Besides, I tried to look up the Extra in question, and I found one from Zuko Alone that says, "Rumor alert: Some think this is when Iroh traveled into the Spirit World to find his son." So that's just talking about the fanon.
Guess that throws the theory out.
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"Some friendships can transcend through lifetimes."

"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character."
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