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Author Topic: LGBTQ Possibilities in Avatar.  (Read 197099 times)
Uzuko
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« Reply #2250 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:11 am »

Of course it could also just have been a last-minute thing they added. I don't have much of a problem with the pairing, but I'm not totally thrilled on the execution.

Both the execution and the pairing really bother me. Honestly if they were going to go with the exact same steps I would switch partners. Opal's character, if she was never paired with Bolin, would have worked for this romance to me. Her wanting to go on a vacation for a break from her family makes more sense then Asami showing nothing but a sigh in regards to her father's death.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #2251 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:18 am »

Of course note that "sabotage" can be done not just via budget adjustments. Networks do actually 'censor' things during development. For example, in gravity falls the storyboards had an adorable old lesbian couple in one episode, but it didn't get further through the production process than that. Network notes told them to make it a heterosexual couple instead, so in the final version one of the old ladies is an old man. The department responsible for 'censoring' these kinds of things has a name.. I just can't remember what it's called. If they felt particular scenes were too overt or something, they may have been cut, or cut down.

Of course it could also just have been a last-minute thing they added. I don't have much of a problem with the pairing, but I'm not totally thrilled on the execution.
They could have had them tone it down, but I don't think they would have made them keep Korra away from everyone for most of the last season or have Asami be such an undeveloped character. The pairing isn't terrible, it's the execution. For all of the hints given, it's all one sided. We don't really see anything like that from Korra, except for her blushing which again isn't that much of an indicator since she isn't really used to getting compliments about her looks.
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Playwright
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« Reply #2252 on: Dec 22, 2014 01:54 pm »

I still think that it's not fair to think the authors are actually trolls who just wanted cheap controversy. Not every inclusion of a couple like this has to be to make a statement.
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2014 01:56 pm by Playwright » Logged

nightingale
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« Reply #2253 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:34 pm »

So today Bryke confirmed Korrasami as canon in their respective Tumblr's. Bryan's response in particular was amazing. You have no idea how good it would have been for me to see LGBT representation when I was a teenager back when ATLA was airing.
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But four babies playing a game can make a playworld which licks your real world hollow... I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.

-Puddleglum, The Silver Chair
Ravenous215
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« Reply #2254 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:39 pm »

I hope this opens the door for more shows and networks to be more accepting to this type of thing. I'm a straight Catholic who is bored with society catering to only a selective few's orientation. Also, Bryan's post has given him my respect til the end of time.
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nightingale
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« Reply #2255 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:41 pm »

I hope this opens the door for more shows and networks to be more accepting to this type of thing. I'm a straight Catholic who is bored with society catering to only a selective few's orientation. Also, Bryan's post has given him my respect til the end of time.

Oh it will definitely have an impact. Nick and other networks will start to see that it is profitable to take this risks. I think it will still be a while until it's full blown open, but as of now this has been one of the greatest moves in children's television regarding LGBT representation.
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But four babies playing a game can make a playworld which licks your real world hollow... I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.

-Puddleglum, The Silver Chair
Dalamis
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« Reply #2256 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:42 pm »

can you post the link to the tumblr you talked about?
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DoTheDwah
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« Reply #2257 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:49 pm »

Being a Korrasami shipper, this is great and all, but I don't really think this instance is going to be a groundbreaking game-changer in terms of the industry as a whole; waiting until the very last shot of the show to tie the knot is too little and too late to make that much of a difference.
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Nausicaa
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« Reply #2258 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:51 pm »

Nice to have confirmation Korra and Asami are bisexual. Some TV shows turn it into a straight/ gay divide, even if the character has dated both men and women (usually by retconning their old relationships or implying they changed).

Also, here's the link:  http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace
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Avapony
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« Reply #2259 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:52 pm »

Here is Bryan's post

And here's Mike's

EDIT: Ninja'd

Like they said, they realize they did not do anything completely groundbreaking, but they feel at least it's a step in the right direction in terms of representation for the LGBT community. That's all they wanted to do: to show that these people exist and shouldn't be ignored or mocked. I guess it does show their support for LGBT rights, but that wasn't the main reason they did this.

Their posts also said it was their personal decision to make Korrasami canon, and it just happened to please a lot of fans. No matter what they did, whether they made Korra get with Mako, Asami, or no one, a chunk of fans were not gonna be happy about it. It's not like they were gonna please everyone if they made Makorra canon. You think they pleased everyone by making Kataang canon? That's when I laugh, ha!

I'm sorry to those who were disappointed by this, though. I know what it feels like to have something ruined for me, but the story is what it is and there's always fan fiction. Smiley
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2014 09:12 pm by Avapony » Logged

Dalamis
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« Reply #2260 on: Dec 22, 2014 08:55 pm »

Thansk. I think i tearbended a bit reading both their posts.  I think, as a kid, if that show had been out, it would have give me courage.

They are right. It will help.



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NeeNee
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« Reply #2261 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:01 pm »

So they do admit that they neglected to write in any real romantic development... and they are pretty much saying that everyone who isn't happy with that is a homophobe.

Man, what a cop-out.
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nightingale
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« Reply #2262 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:08 pm »

So they do admit that they neglected to write in any real romantic development... and they are pretty much saying that everyone who isn't happy with that is a homophobe.

Man, what a cop-out.

No. I think you misunderstood them. Bryan said that Nick didn't allow them to be explicit. And Bryan was speaking about the true homophobic comments that have genuinely arisen, not people giving criticism based on the writing or them simply preferring Makorra.
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But four babies playing a game can make a playworld which licks your real world hollow... I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.

-Puddleglum, The Silver Chair
NeeNee
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« Reply #2263 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:15 pm »

^ Really?

That's not what this sounds like to me.

Quote
If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.
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mmoon24
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« Reply #2264 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:15 pm »

So they do admit that they neglected to write in any real romantic development... and they are pretty much saying that everyone who isn't happy with that is a homophobe.

Man, what a cop-out.

No. I think you misunderstood them. Bryan said that Nick didn't allow them to be explicit. And Bryan was speaking about the true homophobic comments that have genuinely arisen, not people giving criticism based on the writing or them simply preferring Makorra.

Well, define "explicit"? Bryan said Nick supposedly had their backs, and the ending was clearly romantic in nature, then why didn't they have more meaningful interactions? I'm not talking about kissing or dirty looks. Just intimate moments, more blushing, maybe even hand holding during some important scenes.
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luvavatar
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« Reply #2265 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:17 pm »

Here's the thing about not being allowed to be explicit, they didn't really develop their friendship that much either. So of course this ending still doesn't look that great. If Korra and Asami had become close friends in season 2 and spent time together throughout the rest of the show I could buy it. However they didn't and Korra blushing or writing some letters meant she had feelings? At least with Asami it was more apparent, which is funny because Korra is usually anything BUT subtle. So even though they were able to make this pairing canon, it still didn't come off as organically as it should have.
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Xagzan
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« Reply #2266 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:24 pm »

^ Watch all the actual, substantial bits of relationship development be in the letters they exchanged with each other over 3 years, that we never got to see Tongue

Release those letters, Bryke!
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Avapony
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« Reply #2267 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:30 pm »

^^ I agree with that actually. The reason why I love Kataang so much is that is was planned from the beginning, they developed it slowly over three seasons, and BAM! Awesome kiss at the end! And it was amazing! Their relationship is like the best thing in the world to me.

I wish Korrasami was planned like that. With everything else going on in the show, there's not much room for relationship stuff, so just two seasons of some interaction per episode could be enough for someone else, but personally not for me. The Makorra thing in book 1 could still have happened, but they definitely should have started Korrasami in book 2 after Korra and Mako broke up and not have made Asami fall back in love with Mako and start the love triangle again.

I'm not saying there was no build-up, because to me it was actually the most built-up relationship in the show, but there could have been a lot more that would have completely won me over.
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Old School
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« Reply #2268 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:30 pm »

^ Really?

That's not what this sounds like to me.

Quote
If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

To me it sounds like, "well maybe you were watching from a straight person's perspective." Which...is odd, considering it's the only perspective on sexual orientation that a straight person has, but nothing inherently homophobic.
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nightingale
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« Reply #2269 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:32 pm »

^ Really?

That's not what this sounds like to me.

Quote
If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

He's right. People view things through an heterosexual lens. Even I as a gay person do that. Ot's the result of our upbringing, as unfortunately as it is.
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But four babies playing a game can make a playworld which licks your real world hollow... I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.

-Puddleglum, The Silver Chair
Goodfella
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« Reply #2270 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:36 pm »

^ Really?

That's not what this sounds like to me.

Quote
If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

He's right. People view things through an heterosexual lens. Even I as a gay person do that. Ot's the result of our upbringing, as unfortunately as it is.

Agreed. I don't take offense to his wording, as an asexual. Even with Korrasami, a lot of their moments I didn't initially think romantic at first because of how things have been primed to cater to explicit heterosexual lens (or queer baiting at worse). Them being romantic moments weren't incorrect interpretations, they just didn't feel as likely as the default because of how everything else tends to get treaed.

I still think Korrasami wasn't as well developed as it could have been but who knows? Rewatching with a more romantic perspective might help.
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Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #2271 on: Dec 22, 2014 09:38 pm »

Now that the possibility has happened, you can continue the discussion in this thread (about representation) or this thread (about how it was done).

Locked.
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2014 09:59 pm by NeeNee » Logged



I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
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