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Author Topic: Avatar Couples You Support - Part 3  (Read 52713 times)
zukotiamo
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« Reply #6175 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:11 am »

Well of course Luke and Laia were bonded because they were actual brother and sister, complete with strong connections to the force and they were twins.
But we found this out only in movie 3.  Maybe you weren't around then, but between movie 1 & movie 2 we old folks debated if it would be Luke & Leia or Leia & Han.  Many people liked Luke & Leia (remember General Hospital did Luke & Laura?).

('Course there was also an argument for Luke & Han after their obvious bonding in the Hoth snow hut and tearful farewell in the hanger.  Also Luke was drawn back to the sky city by the suffering of HAN under torture... but I say no more.)

Ps.  feverish posts - to me - are evidence of the true demographic of the show!
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« Reply #6176 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:21 am »

-le head desk-

People. Please please please don't get so carried away. There is no need to lose one's temper simply because someone isn't convinced that Kataang is the greatest love story ever told or that Zutara is coded into the very fabric of the universe.

Let us debate like civilized people.

While I'm here: Please make good use of the modify function to edit your existing posts. Double and triple posting is hard on the eyes.
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« Reply #6177 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:24 am »

Well of course Luke and Laia were bonded because they were actual brother and sister, complete with strong connections to the force and they were twins.
But we found this out only in movie 3.  Maybe you weren't around then, but between movie 1 & movie 2 we old folks debated if it would be Luke & Leia or Leia & Han.  Many people liked Luke & Leia (remember General Hospital did Luke & Laura?).

('Course there was also an argument for Luke & Han after their obvious bonding in the Hoth snow hut and tearful farewell in the hanger.  Also Luke was drawn back to the sky city by the suffering of HAN under torture... but I say no more.)

Ps.  feverish posts - to me - are evidence of the true demographic of the show!

Im 23. I'm a little young to rememeber the debates, but I remember watching the trilogy for the first time as a lad of 5 or so and realizing they were setting up Hahn/Laia. Why wasn't it otherwise? Because the whole debate was set up in the advertising of the trilogy itself. The Marketing department took the scenes out of context and made it appear there was a love trangle going on when in the reality of movies there was not. Luke was not Jealous of Hahn, they bickered for different reasons than were implied in the trailers.

There was nothing romantic between Luke and Laia, and there is a truckload of romance between Aang and katara. as I said before, she does not want to be Aang's mother, but the mother of his children.
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« Reply #6178 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:25 am »

-le head desk-

People. Please please please don't get so carried away. There is no need to lose one's temper simply because someone isn't convinced that Kataang is the greatest love story ever told or that Zutara is coded into the very fabric of the universe.

Let us debate like civilized people.

While I'm here: Please make good use of the modify function to edit your existing posts. Double and triple posting is hard on the eyes.


I apologize.  It was completely my fault.  I should have known better than to engage and lose my temper.  It won't happen again.
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« Reply #6179 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:35 am »

I hope this works!  I found this online looking for a Luke & Leia kiss.




Hmmm - katara's new outfit anyone?

« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 04:41 am by zukotiamo » Logged



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« Reply #6180 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:40 am »

Yeah remember what I said about scenes being overblown by advertisers? That's sort of what happened there. Those were the scenes I was talking about, that first scene on top, there was no actual kiss. The only kiss between them was an attempt to make Hahn mad, and Luke was amused because it worked.

The second scene, yeah, just them swinging on a rope across a divide in the floor.

Seriously, the pair with an actuall reincarnated familial connection is Zuko and Aang, and it makes Aang Zuko's reincarnated great grandfather.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 04:45 am by Psylum » Logged

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« Reply #6181 on: Nov 20, 2007 04:43 am »

In the day - it was an actual debate ! 

In fact - Han confronts Leia about her feelings for Luke in Episode 3.

Here's the debate from a star wars thread

Luke and Leia´s kiss
showing 1 - 14 of 14
 
Quote
duner
Non-star wars fans adore to remember this moment.
I find it very odd in lots of ways;
Did G.L. do this on purpose - meaning, he always knew they would turn out to be brothers -?
or was it a twist he did in the story and this had already happend?

I just dont know what to think of it..

Quote
Dorme Vader
Honestly, when I first saw ESB it was before RotJ, so I was actually cheering for them to get together because I couldn't understand the attraction between Han and Leia (I was a child and didn't understand their /fighting/ was actually unresolved sexual tension).

However, upon seeing the re-release special edition, everyone in the audience, including me, were cringing. Ever since finding out the truth of their relationship, it has been a squick-factor for me.

Here's an actual summary of the sequence with the kiss.

http://www.ammon-ra.com/skywalkerparadigm/empire7.html

I think this is why I'm so sure that Aang and Katara are going to turn out to be related - but given the reincarnation thing - it can be in past lives. 

Maybe Katara is a descendant of the last water tribe Avatar?

« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 04:56 am by zukotiamo » Logged



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« Reply #6182 on: Nov 20, 2007 05:03 am »

You are only giving me more evidence for my point, Advertisers for the Star Wars movies exadurated events in the actual story and took them out of context in order to build a love triangle that didn't exist in the canon. Lucus planned them to be brother and sister, ergo nothing actually romantic, from the start. However Marketers tend to look for anlges to hype movies....and what better thing to hype than a love triangle, so they ran with it.

Years later when I watched the Star Wars trilogy I picked up on Hahn/Laia right away because I was not effected by movie advertising. Return of the Jedi wa already out for a year by the time I was born. I watched it with untainted eyes and got it right away. I do not let myself be taken in by advertising, I pay attention to the actual authrial intent, and in Avatar the intent is that Katara wants to be the mother of Aang's children, not Aang hiself.

Basically I know not to let Marketing for big budget stories cloud my perception of the actual story. There is no actual familal link with Aang and Katara, his parents were Air Nomads and he was born 98 years before her(being frozen in an iceberg did wonders for him). Her parents and grand parents were all water tribe. The closest chance for there to be a reincarnated familial conncetion between Aang and Katara is if Katara is a descendent of Avatar Kuruk. The only instance of reinacrnation in this world is the Avatar. The thing is though if you go back far enough a very large portion of the world's people are likely related to a past Avatar. (It is actually a crack theory of mine that all benders are descended from a past Avatar if you go back far enough)
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 05:11 am by Psylum » Logged

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« Reply #6183 on: Nov 20, 2007 05:13 am »

I suggest that people who start reading Harry Potter now (after book 7 is out) will not be as taken in by JKR's detours - even if it is their first time through the books - because the story has seeped into the collective unconscious.   It will be a different experience for them.

I can see the Kataang in front of me ... but I also see the possibilities of Zutara and the story is not yet over - even if this is Zutara's darkest hour (frankly).  However - I hold out hope.  An Old Hope.

The thing is though if you go back far enough a very large portion of the world's people are likely related to a past Avatar. (It is actually a crack theory of mine that all benders are descended from a past Avatar if you go back far enough)

Kind of Adam & Eve-ish.  Not a bad theory. 
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 05:17 am by zukotiamo » Logged



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« Reply #6184 on: Nov 20, 2007 07:30 am »

Ok so I looked at that link so I could get an idea of where your coming from. Here's what you have to realize, why he shot those scenes in the first place, I have no clue, but for whatever reason they did not make the finished product,(Thank goodness) the romantic Subtext for Luke and Laia was removed from the final product, with only the one kiss that was there for LOLs.

So basically someone decided to remove the romantic subtext from the plot very likely for the reason that Luke and Laia were infact brother and sister.

The thing with Kataang is that the overall story (especially season 3) is overflowing with romantic subtext between them (going both ways), it didn't get cut out, it's very much a part of the plot.
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« Reply #6185 on: Nov 20, 2007 07:32 am »

Psylum, sweetie, it's pointless to debate and I suspect we've done canon!Zutarians a grave disservice in doing so.  We've made a mistake, you see.  

After I went to bed this morning, lol, it suddenly dawned on me.  Obviously we and canon!Zutarians are NOT watching the same show.  After some deep thinking on the issue I resolved that must be the case and I felt quite silly.  I mean, certainly that can be the only reason that Aang's romantic love for Katara is being overlooked or mislabeled because that particular theme is about as subtle as a 4x4 to the head.

So obviously that's it.  We watch Avatar: The Last Airbender, the story of a twelve year old boy destined to save the world with the help of his friends and the love of a 14 year old waterbender who had absolute faith in him sight unseen.  canon!Zutarians, apparently, watch that other show Avatar:  The Greatest Fanbending on Earth, the story that can be whatever the heck they want it to be because it's not like they actually give merit to what happens on Avatar:  The Last Airbender anyway.

So then, when you look at it from that regard, it's somewhat pointless and wrong to debate with them because we're not watching the same thing.  With that I must apologize for my efforts to shoot down canon!Zutarian theories as it's become apparent they're not watching the show I'm watching anyway.  I'm deeply sorry for the miscommunication.  Because as I said before, I watch Avatar:  The Last Airbender.  Sorry for the confusion.

My bad.  Smiley  
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« Reply #6186 on: Nov 20, 2007 07:38 am »

Quote
I say Zuko is responsible because:
1.  He saved Mai as a child from the burning apple.
2.  He spoke up for the raw recruits in the war room.
3.  He refused to fight his father, instead indicating his loyalty.
4.  He pursued Aang to restore his honor.
5.  He loves his uncle.  (ok with some deviations) (no deviation jokes).
6.  He defended the kid Lee from the nasty EK bullies in the OK corral - Zuko alone.
7.  He didn't exploit Jet, he never tried to use or humiliate EK people when he was there (except for stealing that horse/bird thingy)
8.  He was kind to the big bosomed girl who believed he was a juggler ()
9.  He loves his mommy.
10.  He lit a fire for Ty Lee when she was cold.
11.  He got food for his cranky girlfriend.
12.  He threatenned but never actually did harm Katara or Sokka.
13.  He doesn't insult people (like Zhao or Azula).
14.  He doesn't recklessly hurt animals or people.
15.  He is concerned about his role as crown prince (beyond chairs and cakes)...
Those have nothing to do with responsibility. When the Fire Nation captured Aang, instead of just letting him go for the good of his country, Zuko tried to take him back for his own selfish needs. Reeal responsible...
 
 
Quote
3.  But the fortuneteller did not see love in his future although she saw it in Katara's.
She also told Aang it's your decisions and actions that shape your future. Now, who did Katara have a very dramatic realization over whos a powerful bender?
Quote
5.  Guru Pati told him he had to leave behind attachments if he wanted to master the avatar state. 
6.  (Roku was a realized avatar when he finally married).
 
You sorta just contradicted yourself...
 
Quote
8.  Katara I still think is not of the same mind as Aang.  Even her putting Aang to bed in NMDD is motherly.  In the Runaway she was motherly.
You completely missed the point of the episode. Katara mothers EVERYONE, it's her personality. Jeeze, they specifically state that in the show and people still use that argument! That's it! If you need me, I'll be in the Angry-Dome!

 Wink
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« Reply #6187 on: Nov 20, 2007 07:49 am »

Quote
8.  Katara I still think is not of the same mind as Aang.  Even her putting Aang to bed in NMDD is motherly.  In the Runaway she was motherly.
You completely missed the point of the episode. Katara mothers EVERYONE, it's her personality. Jeeze, they specifically state that in the show and people still use that argument! That's it! If you need me, I'll be in the Angry-Dome!

 Wink

Don't get angry.  You see that happened on the other show, Avatar:  The Greatest Fanbending on Earth.  You see, on that show, Katara and Zuko are a super hot item.  They are sooo going to get together at the end, you know, after Aang discovers his love for Katara was familial after all.  I don't watch it though.  Doesn't interest me.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 07:50 am by Snoopy » Logged

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« Reply #6188 on: Nov 20, 2007 07:55 am »

Well of course Luke and Laia were bonded because they were actual brother and sister, complete with strong connections to the force and they were twins.
But we found this out only in movie 3.  Maybe you weren't around then, but between movie 1 & movie 2 we old folks debated if it would be Luke & Leia or Leia & Han.  Many people liked Luke & Leia (remember General Hospital did Luke & Laura?).

('Course there was also an argument for Luke & Han after their obvious bonding in the Hoth snow hut and tearful farewell in the hanger.  Also Luke was drawn back to the sky city by the suffering of HAN under torture... but I say no more.)

Ps.  feverish posts - to me - are evidence of the true demographic of the show!


I remember. Luke had a crush on Leia and it was clearly one-sided. Obviously, there was a good reason they didn't hook up - being blood brother and sister - but there were Luke/Leia shippers of my day at least after the first movie.

I also think the dynamic between Katara and Aang was sisterly/brotherly for the most part right up until this season. I think Katara has mostly been oblivious to Aang's one-sided crush. Very Luke/Leiaesque. You're not alone. I chalk it up to being old enough to remember the first Star Wars movie before we knew Luke and Leia were brother/sister.

As for Zutara, I accept that it's not in the writers' plans - even if I personally think would make an interesting twist.  This show is made for kids like Snoopy's son afterall, and Kataang is simple enough for 6-11 boys (who aren't overly interested in romance anyway) to appreciate. I don't think "complicated" romance is what they want right now. That's okay.

Psylum:

Quote
There was nothing romantic between Luke and Laia, and there is a truckload of romance between Aang and katara. as I said before, she does not want to be Aang's mother, but the mother of his children.

Truckloads? Really? I guess my definition of romance is broader than a one-sided 12 year old's crush. The writers have even said Katara was oblivious to Aang's crush, so it's not just us that didn't see the truckloads.

I have read the writers' comments about the Kataang DNA and I know that's where this is headed, to the extent that romance is going to figure into the story at all between now and the arrival of the comet it's going to be the primary romantic focus.

That being said, I have read enough comments of people who aren't 14 years old fangirls, who are thoughtful and funny, and who saw the relationship between Aang and Katara as mostly familial, and not romantic. It's just having a different perspective on what constitutes a romance in the literary sense. To me it's like the difference between Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast.

Anyway, to the extent that Katara returns romantic feelings for Aang, I really hope she's not thinking about getting married and having babies yet.

Quote
Don't get angry.  You see that happened on the other show, Avatar:  The Greatest Fanbending on Earth.  You see, on that show, Katara and Zuko are a super hot item.  They are sooo going to get together at the end, you know, after Aang discovers his love for Katara was familial after all.  I don't watch it though.  Doesn't interest me.

Well thank goodness you're here to set us straight on the "proper" perspective for how fans should watch this animated series about fictitious characters! I guess those of us who don't believe the gospel should be banished for for our lack of Kataang orthodoxy, huh?
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 08:10 am by MaryS-NJ » Logged

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« Reply #6189 on: Nov 20, 2007 08:04 am »

^^At 12 and 14 I hope they aren't planning on having kids just yet either.

 And yeah, considering Katara is not the main character, and given her personality, there is in fact a truckload of Katara->Aang before season 3. This is the fundimental thing, Katara's personality is very heavily misunderstood. Her idea of a romantic gesture for the only other guy she's actually been shown to have a crush on, Jet, was to make him a hat.

You are right, the idea of a 12 year old hero winning the heart of a pretty 14 year old girl who already adores him is pretty appealing to the target age group. There is much more to it than that though. Aang is the main character but Katara isn't a prize. Aang is strong, brave, smart, and cares about her, that's pretty good reason to fall in love with a guy. It may not be the most complex, but it's good reasoning none the less.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 08:13 am by Psylum » Logged

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« Reply #6190 on: Nov 20, 2007 08:06 am »

Quote
That being said, I have read enough comments of people who aren't 14 years old fangirls, who are thoughtful and funny, and who saw the relationship between Aang and Katara as mostly familial, and not romantic. It's just having a different perspective on what constitutes a romance.

And I guess that's my point.  Until this season I can see where there was room for ambiguitity concerning the reciprocity of Katara's feelings for Aang.  What could not be debated, however, was that Aang's love for her was NOT familial, especially when it continued to deepen and grow over the course of the series.  While I completely understand debating whether or not Katara feels as Aang does based on the happenings in Book 1 and 2, I certainly don't understand why Aang's feelings for Katara must be called into question or minimized when the very nature of them was made pretty obvious from the start.

Basically, in my opinion, that's the start of some major fanwanking, which is basically what led me to the conclusion we're not watching the same show.

ETA:
Quote
Well thank goodness you're here to set us straight on the "proper" perspective for how fans should watch this animated series about fictitious characters! I guess those of us who don't believe the gospel should be banished for for our lack of Kataang orthodoxy, huh?

Nope.  I never said that.  I said that we aren't watching the same show and evidently, we're not.

You see, if I present you an orange, it's an orange.  No amount of "perspective" is going to turn it into an apple.  No amount of analyzing is going to make it anything other than what it is:  an orange.  You may not like the orange.  You may prefer the apple.  Heck, you may even want a banana or something else besides fruit entirely and yet it still doesn't change the fact I presented you with an orange.  A simple metaphor but I think it stresses my point.  It has nothing to do with Kataang Orthodoxy as you put it, since I'm not the one who writes the show.  Kataang wasn't MY creation.  That entire story arc belongs to Mike and Bryan, you know the creators of the show Avatar:  The Last Airbender.  Therefore my responses are based on things I've SEEN, not assumed, not theorized, not fanwanked, but things I've SEEN on the show Avatar:  The Last Airbender.

That's all I'm saying.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 08:38 am by Snoopy » Logged

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« Reply #6191 on: Nov 20, 2007 08:29 am »

^^At 12 and 14 I hope they aren't planning on having kids just yet either.

 And yeah, considering Katara is not the main character, and given her personality, there is in fact a truckload of Katara->Aang before season 3. This is the fundimental thing, Katara's personality is very heavily misunderstood. Her idea of a romantic gesture for the only other guy she's actually been shown to have a crush on, Jet, was to make him a hat.

I've seen this example before. I'm not sure I understand the significance of the hat. Katar was attracted to Jet in an obvious way. I could understand that because I was a 14 year old girl at one time and had crushes on older boys. Young people do silly things when they have crushes and they sometimes get hurt. That's why the Jetara episodes really worked so well with me, personally. It was believable.  Unfrotunately, part of learning about love and romance involves disappointment, betrayal, and sometimes having platonic friends who feel differently than you do about the relationship.

Quote
And I guess that's my point.  Until this season I can see where there was room for ambiguitity concerning the reciprocity of Katara's feelings for Aang.  What could not be debated, however, was that Aang's love for her was NOT familial, especially when it continued to deepen and grow over the course of the season.  While I completely understand debating whether or not Katara feels as Aang does based on the happenings in Book 1 and 2, I certainly don't understand why Aang's feelings for Katara must be called into question or minimized when the very nature of them was made pretty obvious from the start.

Basically, in my opinion, that's the start of some major fanwanking, which is basically what led me to the conclusion we're not watching the same show.

No, were watching the show but recalling other literary precursors. I prefer "Beauty and the Beast" to "Cinderella" as a romantic fairy tale. Aang is the noble hero who falls in love - literally - with the first girl he ever lays eyes on. It's sweetness and light. It really is, but I'm an old lady (for this fandom anywya Smiley) and I prefer bitter-sweet. *shrug*

For Zutara to work in canon, I think there would have to be some transformative element to the relationship between Katara and Zuko where she is part of the catalyst for his change. That's what it looked like was going to happen in CoD before Zuko betrayed them. If forgiveness and redemption are part of the story, which they are according to MikeD - at least for Zuko, then being forgiven by those he has wronged (Aang especially, but also Katara) is part of Zuko's character devlopment. So seeing that potential what spurred my interest Zutara.

It's too late to go there now probably, even if the writers wanted to throw a Zutara twist in the tale.
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« Reply #6192 on: Nov 20, 2007 08:36 am »

Mary, then I guess we have that in common because I'm a bit "old" for this forum as well.  And believe me, I can appreciate the meatier aspects of Zutara but, as a writer, I can also see the meatier aspects in Kataang.

I'm not knocking Zutara at all.  I totally get why the dynamic is so fascinating.  What I don't understand is how that translates into canon.

As for Kataang being fairytale-esque, ie the Prince waking the sleeping Princess with a kiss, I suppose it could be relegated to such simplicity.  But I prefer to think of it as the story of a girl who had mighty faith in the Avatar when everyone else had lost hope, only to be the very one to discover this lost boy in a chunk of ice after a 100 years sleep and interwine their destinies for all time.  Maybe you're right.  Maybe it is silly and simple and whimisical and not nearly as deep as Zutara but I dig it and I, for one, happen to be glad that's the story Mike and Bryan are telling us.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 08:39 am by Snoopy » Logged

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« Reply #6193 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:00 am »

Quote
Don't get angry.  You see that happened on the other show, Avatar:  The Greatest Fanbending on Earth.  You see, on that show, Katara and Zuko are a super hot item.  They are sooo going to get together at the end, you know, after Aang discovers his love for Katara was familial after all.  I don't watch it though.  Doesn't interest me.

that kinda reminds me of this:

http://spootay.deviantart.com/art/Wanksterpiece-Theatre-68894462

Quote
As for Zutara, I accept that it's not in the writers' plans - even if I personally think would make an interesting twist.  This show is made for kids like Snoopy's son afterall, and Kataang is simple enough for 6-11 boys (who aren't overly interested in romance anyway) to appreciate. I don't think "complicated" romance is what they want right now. That's okay.

LOL! Zutara is nothing more than a big blah imo. I don't see anything interesting about it. Zutarians just use that "Kataang is a simple cliched romance made for widdle kiddies, while Zutara is this big ZOMG! EPIC! COMPLICATED!! ORGINAL! romance1!11!! made for us grown up people!1!1!" (which is ironic seeing that the Kataang fans are usually the older group) when they get backed in the corner and have nothing else better to say
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 09:22 am by mindbender » Logged

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« Reply #6194 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:06 am »

Quote
As for Zutara, I accept that it's not in the writers' plans - even if I personally think would make an interesting twist.  This show is made for kids like Snoopy's son afterall, and Kataang is simple enough for 6-11 boys (who aren't overly interested in romance anyway) to appreciate. I don't think "complicated" romance is what they want right now. That's okay.

Quote
LOL! Zutara is nothing more than a big blah imo. I don't see anything interesting about it. Zutarians just use that "Kataang is a simple cliched romance made for widdle kiddies, while Zutara is this big ZOMG! EPIC! COMPLICATED!! ORGINAL! romance1!11!! made for us grown ups!11!" (which is ironic seeing that the Kataang fans are usually the older group) when they get backed in the corner and have nothing else better to say
I totally agree with you mindbender Smiley

zutarians always say that "its the hottest!!!111" or "its more mature!"  i know we all have different ships but its kinda insulting kataang that its "simple" or "its just for kids" look at aang now he's being more mature! and now that its season 3 we see katara's side for her feelings for aang Wink
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Snoopy
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« Reply #6195 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:17 am »

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Don't get angry.  You see that happened on the other show, Avatar:  The Greatest Fanbending on Earth.  You see, on that show, Katara and Zuko are a super hot item.  They are sooo going to get together at the end, you know, after Aang discovers his love for Katara was familial after all.  I don't watch it though.  Doesn't interest me.

that kinda reminds me of this:

http://spootay.deviantart.com/art/Wanksterpiece-Theatre-68894462

Not such a coincidence because I read that for the first time last night...and laughed my head off.

Teehee.  *wipes tear from eye*  Good times.  Good times.
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« Reply #6196 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:42 am »

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zutarians always say that "its the hottest!!!111" or "its more mature!"
Always? Darn, the Zutarians I know must be Kataangers in red and blue clothing because they rarely said that... ever.
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coolcamz18
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« Reply #6197 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:47 am »

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zutarians always say that "its the hottest!!!111" or "its more mature!"
Always? Darn, the Zutarians I know must be Kataangers in red and blue clothing because they rarely said that... ever.
sorry im just trying to say most zutarians say that that's all im trying to say....
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MaryS-NJ
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mshepnj
« Reply #6198 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:50 am »

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As for Zutara, I accept that it's not in the writers' plans - even if I personally think would make an interesting twist.  This show is made for kids like Snoopy's son afterall, and Kataang is simple enough for 6-11 boys (who aren't overly interested in romance anyway) to appreciate. I don't think "complicated" romance is what they want right now. That's okay.

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LOL! Zutara is nothing more than a big blah imo. I don't see anything interesting about it. Zutarians just use that "Kataang is a simple cliched romance made for widdle kiddies, while Zutara is this big ZOMG! EPIC! COMPLICATED!! ORGINAL! romance1!11!! made for us grown ups!11!" (which is ironic seeing that the Kataang fans are usually the older group) when they get backed in the corner and have nothing else better to say
I totally agree with you mindbender Smiley

zutarians always say that "its the hottest!!!111" or "its more mature!"  i know we all have different ships but its kinda insulting kataang that its "simple" or "its just for kids" look at aang now he's being more mature! and now that its season 3 we see katara's side for her feelings for aang Wink

Quote
Don't get angry.  You see that happened on the other show, Avatar:  The Greatest Fanbending on Earth.  You see, on that show, Katara and Zuko are a super hot item.  They are sooo going to get together at the end, you know, after Aang discovers his love for Katara was familial after all.  I don't watch it though.  Doesn't interest me.

that kinda reminds me of this:

http://spootay.deviantart.com/art/Wanksterpiece-Theatre-68894462

Quote
As for Zutara, I accept that it's not in the writers' plans - even if I personally think would make an interesting twist.  This show is made for kids like Snoopy's son afterall, and Kataang is simple enough for 6-11 boys (who aren't overly interested in romance anyway) to appreciate. I don't think "complicated" romance is what they want right now. That's okay.

LOL! Zutara is nothing more than a big blah imo. I don't see anything interesting about it. Zutarians just use that "Kataang is a simple cliched romance made for widdle kiddies, while Zutara is this big ZOMG! EPIC! COMPLICATED!! ORGINAL! romance1!11!! made for us grown ups!11!" (which is ironic seeing that the Kataang fans are usually the older group) when they get backed in the corner and have nothing else better to say


So sarcastic ranting is going to make it all better, huh?

I'm speaking for myself, not the collective Zutarian fandom, when I say I think Kataang is simple and uncomplicated. It was Snoopy's point about her 6 year old son's perspective that I was keeping in mind - because she is right about that. Her 6 year old son wouldn't understand Zutara.  

snoopy:

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Mary, then I guess we have that in common because I'm a bit "old" for this forum as well.  And believe me, I can appreciate the meatier aspects of Zutara but, as a writer, I can also see the meatier aspects in Kataang.

I'm not knocking Zutara at all.  I totally get why the dynamic is so fascinating.  What I don't understand is how that translates into canon.

I don't think it will translate into canon now either.

The thing that frustrates me is this idea that a mutual Kataang romance that not seeing it must mean we're watching a different show. The creators have said that Katara was oblivious to Aang's crush. I saw that too. I didn't see Katara displaying romantic feelings for Aang until this season, and mostly - in my opinion - she's been more like a big sister to him.

So, I get tired of the refrain that it must be obvious that Katara had a romantic interest in Aang all along, and seeing the potential for something else something else (i.e.: Zutara) is "delusional".

Maybe I missed the early fan debates, but expressing any kind of desire for canon!Zutara these days is met with such hostility in this forum.

I don't see all the subtext that some Zutarians do, but I did see the potential. As a potential canon ship, Zutara always appealed to me. That doesn't mean I expect it.  

Up thread you made the oranges v. apples contrast. If it were really that obvious a difference we wouldn't be having this debate, would we? I think it's more like Merlot v. Shiraz. Both are red wine, both have their unique flavors, but I usually prefer Shiraz to Merlot. I prefer the subtext of Shiraz Smiley. It's a matter of personal taste and it varies from bottle to bottle. I'll drink the Merlot but will still wish it was Shiraz.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 12:29 pm by MaryS-NJ » Logged

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« Reply #6199 on: Nov 20, 2007 09:59 am »

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zutarians always say that "its the hottest!!!111" or "its more mature!"
Always? Darn, the Zutarians I know must be Kataangers in red and blue clothing because they rarely said that... ever.
sorry im just trying to say most zutarians say that that's all im trying to say...
I presumed so. It is just that generalisations tend to reinforce the "ship war". A term you may want to use to describe canon!Zutarians was coined a few months ago: canonist. But it may have fallen out of fashion since the third season aired, as I did not see this term lately.

But yes, saying all Zutarians (which "zutarians" implies, however accidentally, even without "all" before it) think Kataang is immature is like saying all Kataangers think Zutara should be forbidden. Not accurate. At all. Fanon Zutara exists, as much as the debates here can make people forget it.

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DO NOT claim that Aang loves Katara in anything other than a romantic sense.
We cannot claim that Aang loves Katara as a friend? Funny, I thought she was his love in addition to being his best friend and generally most important person in the world.

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LOL! Zutara is nothing more than a big blah imo.
...Zutara is Mai?

Joking put aside, about the "Zutara happening would be an interesting twist", I ask: what ship, other than those already presented in canon, would not make an interesting twist? (Remember, Zucest counts as canon.)

And remember kids, too much red wine is bad for your health!
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 11:02 am by Maladin » Logged

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