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Author Topic: A series in which the Avatar is the antagonist. Thoughts?  (Read 18826 times)
chicken_sokka
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« Reply #150 on: Mar 14, 2013 06:15 pm »

Eh, even the more extreme measures can be subtle, likely slowly shutting down the city's access to clean water and such. And that's not even if the Avatar just gets enough resources together to reward people for leaving the city. It's not like Republic City is a nice place to live for most of its people.

I'd argue that even that is going too far, but I'm talking a full-blown rebellion against the people of the UR and the Avatar
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MightyMouse444
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« Reply #151 on: Apr 18, 2013 06:58 pm »

I always wondered about this. It surely would be an interesting plot, to have a corrupt/opposing Avatar. I'd imagine if they were to ever work with such a theme, it would be in the Wild West of the world of Avatar. Cowboy non-benders, hillbilly earth benders, and Water Tribe saloon girls. I'd definitely watch that.
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Noob32
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« Reply #152 on: Apr 22, 2013 06:41 am »

The Earth Kingdom introduces the nuclear bomb
You don't say.
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chicken_sokka
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« Reply #153 on: Apr 29, 2013 10:48 pm »

I always wondered about this. It surely would be an interesting plot, to have a corrupt/opposing Avatar. I'd imagine if they were to ever work with such a theme, it would be in the Wild West of the world of Avatar. Cowboy non-benders, hillbilly earth benders, and Water Tribe saloon girls. I'd definitely watch that.

Ehhh.... I don't think the series would steer in that direction seeing as TLoK is already based on a time period more recent than that.
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Flipdark95
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« Reply #154 on: May 06, 2013 09:51 pm »

^ Well, it isn't a stretch to assume that areas like the Si Wong desert would become the 'frontier' of the Avatarverse. The native sandbender tribes would be to Earth Kingdom or Fire Nation settlers what the Indians were to American settlers heading west.

I guess I really like this idea because I can totally see Korra drinking everyone under the table in a saloon and a brawl breaks out because of it. Plus Asami would definitely be trying to lay train tracks through there to connect Republic City to Ba Sing Se.
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chicken_sokka
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« Reply #155 on: May 06, 2013 11:00 pm »

^ Well, it isn't a stretch to assume that areas like the Si Wong desert would become the 'frontier' of the Avatarverse. The native sandbender tribes would be to Earth Kingdom or Fire Nation settlers what the Indians were to American settlers heading west.

I guess I really like this idea because I can totally see Korra drinking everyone under the table in a saloon and a brawl breaks out because of it. Plus Asami would definitely be trying to lay train tracks through there to connect Republic City to Ba Sing Se.

Hmm... Well, I guess I could see that. It's reasonable to assume that different parts of the world are in different spots developmentally, and that does kinda sound like a pretty cool setting. Maybe they can see that on their way to, oh I don't know..... Wan Shi Tong's Library?? Eh? Anyone?

... No? okay.
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RWB
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« Reply #156 on: May 11, 2013 04:59 am »

^^

i think it will be hard to fight if Avatar is the main villain or enemy,, who can beat him?  the spirits is the possible enemy for Crime-Avatar

This is precisely why the series would be so damn epic! A team of "normal" benders and nonbenders have to find a way to somehow stop a tyranical fully realized Avatar. How they would do it I don't know, but if bryke pulled it off it would be epic as all hell I'm sure. I think it'd be a situation where intelligence would need to trump power and bending. Sokkaness to the rescue!

There are checks in place for corrupt Avatars. Pretty confident if he ever went into the Avatar State that he would be able to control it. Avatars can possess other Avatars, and they wouldn't allow it. An Anti-Avatar would be a fine plot, but evil Avatar wouldn't. It just betrays the nature of the series.

Except, you know, that the current avatar has the lion's share of control.
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ThePilot
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« Reply #157 on: Jun 18, 2013 08:05 pm »

^^

i think it will be hard to fight if Avatar is the main villain or enemy,, who can beat him?  the spirits is the possible enemy for Crime-Avatar

This is precisely why the series would be so damn epic! A team of "normal" benders and nonbenders have to find a way to somehow stop a tyranical fully realized Avatar. How they would do it I don't know, but if bryke pulled it off it would be epic as all hell I'm sure. I think it'd be a situation where intelligence would need to trump power and bending. Sokkaness to the rescue!

There are checks in place for corrupt Avatars. Pretty confident if he ever went into the Avatar State that he would be able to control it. Avatars can possess other Avatars, and they wouldn't allow it. An Anti-Avatar would be a fine plot, but evil Avatar wouldn't. It just betrays the nature of the series.

I can agree with that. An anti-hero, Zuko-esque, morally conflicted avatar could be cool.
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Free Airbender
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« Reply #158 on: Sep 20, 2013 02:16 am »

I was thinking about that before too and I thought that because the Avatar is the spirit of the planet incarnated as a human, maybe they can't truly be evil? Shocked

Like in The Legend of Korra Unalaq said that there are no evil spirits and every spirit has both good and bad in them, but sometimes if they get unbalanced the darkness takes over. Kind of like what occasionally happened to Aang when he went into the Avatar State.
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ld80061
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« Reply #159 on: Nov 03, 2013 09:34 pm »

An actively evil Avatar doesn't really fit the Avatar universe… but a foolish, forgetful, or lazy Avatar is definitely possible. Possibly, even a cowardly one. So I would go for the flawed, passive, or mentally weak Avatar as a good antagonist.

An actively evil Avatar would be extremely exciting, and could well make a series as great as the original ATLA. But it would have to be carefully thought out, and it's very likely that - for dramatic reasons - this would be the LAST Avatar!
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Anarky
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« Reply #160 on: Mar 08, 2014 04:06 am »

Something I can imagine is a show where the avatar is missing and the quest is to find him or her. In this scenario, the avatar is someone raised by the villains, so it's a big reveal and character arc
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Blue Warpath
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« Reply #161 on: Mar 09, 2014 06:19 am »

Would Raava and the past Avatars (the Avatar after Korra will be a little lonely) intervene before that happens? Then again, I suppose it's possible if the Avater is too far gone by that point, since it's the Avatar's choice to contact his/her past lives - and, then again, Korra had to find Raava for Raava and her to open channels with each other. It's possible.
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« Reply #162 on: Jun 28, 2014 12:00 am »

That'd be interesting. I already watched the show from Azula's POV, but having one where it's just flipped perspective would be really cool. Smiley
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #163 on: Jun 28, 2014 09:26 am »

A brainwashed or foolish Avatar ? Yes.
However, if the Avatar is actually heroic, the "heroes" will have to be antagonists or something else.
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« Reply #164 on: Sep 05, 2014 10:25 pm »

 Grin
Absolutely. Not only did I think this series is a good idea, I thought up a scenario where this could happen. This will be long, but feel free to comment on and add to or edit my idea. One point: I thought that "Legend of Korra" was an okay show. My only problem is the lack of an overall villain or story arc for "Legend of Korra," and there is no real character development for Korra's gang, so I don't feel the show is as good as "The Last Airbender."

This is a series of shows, starting with "The Last Airbender" and ending with "The Uprising".

Series 1: "The Last Airbender"- Nothing really changes in the show, but there will be an extra season/comics that show what happened in the years after the war. Short Version:
-The Gaang breaks up in the postwar tensions. Only Sokka and Toph are still friends with everyone.
-Zuko and Mai become especially isolated, as they have to deal with the fact that Zuko is hated as a foreign puppet. Eventually, he avoids Aang for publicity reasons.
-Aang attempts to establish the predecessor of Republic City, but it fails because no one trusts each other.
-In the Northern Water Tribe, a nationalist family rises to power (Arnook has no heir), and unites the two Water Tribes as the "Water Confederacy."
-The next Avatar is born, but the Water King/Queen arranges FN pirates to burn her village and kill her mother. The Water Ruler's forces rescue the Avatar, and raise her to serve their agenda.

Series 2: "The Legend of Korra", in name only, 70 years after "The Last Airbender".
-Sokka discovers the Avatar and gets her out of the Water Confederacy, but not before she is blamed for murdering Zuko. A newly-released Azula and Zuko's grandson go after her and Sokka.
-There are a series of dark adventures, and eventually Korra (the avatar) learns the Water King's plan is to revive an army of Airbenders currently in the Spirit World, who will do his bidding. With the help of his allies in the Earth Kingdom, they will wipe out the Fire Nation.
-Korra goes to a Devil Figure (who is implied to be tied to the Airbenders, we'll call him "Vaatu"), and makes a deal with him. He helps her defeat the Water Confederacy forces, and the revived Air Nomads must do as she says. She commands them not to go to war with the Fire Nation. But she then dies. Her end of the deal was she had to spend a generation (70 years) in the Spirit World before reincarnating.

Series 3: "The Broken City", 70 years after "Korra."
-In the years between "Korra" and "The Broken City", an island in the Middle of the Sea becomes a major problem for all nations. The natives believe that bending is evil, and their ideas are starting to gain popularity in the 4 Nations. (Except for the Fire Nation, which ironically has the society most open for non-benders.) Eventually, all of the Nations joined together to deal with the Equalist terrorists. When they won, they decided to govern the city on the Island jointly. This will be based on Republic City, but it will more resemble Cold War Berlin, separated between the different national zones.
-The Air Nomads are back, but there is a major schism in Airbender society between the Traditionalists, who want to go back to the old ways, and are led by Aang's disciples, and the Modernists, who have come to the conclusion that pacifism made the Air Nomads a target, and are thus militaristic, and hate the Fire Nation.
-The Avatar arrives, just as an Equalist uprising begins. We then learn the origin of the Avatar. Originally, "Vaatu" was a spirit that created the first humans, the airbenders. When other spirits created other humans, Vaatu got angry, and had his humans attack them. The first Avatar was a spirit who came down to fight Vaatu's Airbenders. With the help of the Bison Spirit, the Airbenders were converted to pacifism after defeat. Vaatu was banished to the Spirit World.
-Unfortunately, while fighting the Equalist rebels, the new Avatar gets sick and tired as the 4 Nations refuse to cooperate. Vaatu convinces the Avatar (a man in the third series) that he should rule, as he, the Avatar, will rule fairly. At the end of the show, the Avatar launches a coup with the help of the Airbender Modernists, and the Avatar takes over the world.
Series 4: "The Uprising"
-The Avatar rules the world as a Tyrant. The Airbenders are his enforcers. Secretly, Vaatu is his lover and chief advisor. The Fire Nation rebelled recently, and half of their population was massacred.
-A young firebender girl learns she can also airbend. Taken into hiding, she realizes she has been given the power of the Avatar by the spirits (sans the Avatar State) to take down the now massive threat of the Avatar.
 Thoughts? Opinions?
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slmrshd
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« Reply #165 on: Sep 08, 2014 07:42 am »


-The Air Nomads are back, but there is a major schism in Airbender society between the Traditionalists, who want to go back to the old ways, and are led by Aang's disciples, and the Modernists, who have come to the conclusion that pacifism made the Air Nomads a target, and are thus militaristic, and hate the Fire Nation.
-The Avatar arrives, just as an Equalist uprising begins. We then learn the origin of the Avatar. Originally, "Vaatu" was a spirit that created the first humans, the airbenders. When other spirits created other humans, Vaatu got angry, and had his humans attack them. The first Avatar was a spirit who came down to fight Vaatu's Airbenders. With the help of the Bison Spirit, the Airbenders were converted to pacifism after defeat. Vaatu was banished to the Spirit World.
-Unfortunately, while fighting the Equalist rebels, the new Avatar gets sick and tired as the 4 Nations refuse to cooperate. Vaatu convinces the Avatar (a man in the third series) that he should rule, as he, the Avatar, will rule fairly. At the end of the show, the Avatar launches a coup with the help of the Airbender Modernists, and the Avatar takes over the world.
Series 4: "The Uprising"
-The Avatar rules the world as a Tyrant. The Airbenders are his enforcers. Secretly, Vaatu is his lover and chief advisor. The Fire Nation rebelled recently, and half of their population was massacred.
-A young firebender girl learns she can also airbend. Taken into hiding, she realizes she has been given the power of the Avatar by the spirits (sans the Avatar State) to take down the now massive threat of the Avatar.
I love the idea of Traditionalists vs. Modernists between the Airbenders; It makes complete sense.

You could also have the Order of the White Lotus joining the side of the young fire-bender because they are not happy with the way that the current avatar is handling the world.

My only complain is that the fire/air bender should be able to access the Avatar State while the corrupt avatar cannot (since I'm assuming past avatars would not accept his beliefs, thus cutting off their interference with him and finding another individual, the fire-bender, to invest time in).

This doesn't mean that the avatar cannot reach the avatar state because in LoK, Korra reaches the avatar state a number of times but isn't exactly in-touch with the past avatars. Hers is particularly weak.
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Esperaholon
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« Reply #166 on: Sep 18, 2014 05:46 am »

It'd be pointless - either the Avatar State or the idea of Reincarnation would have to be ret-con'd. I mean think about - Avatar State generally pawns all even when it's been nerfed and the user is poisoned half to death. So how is anyone going to realistically take out the Avatar? And that isn't even counting if the Avatar has a half decent team backing them just in case.

On the other Wan was a thief, bad at long-term planning, and an overall Knuckledheaded McSpaztron... but he wasn't evil or a jerk. So in order to have an antagonist you'd either have to unrealistically make them evil or you have to forcibly create a situation that makes someone else the hero... and doing that without it falling through is dang near impossible. Look at LOK.

Amon and Zaheer are fan favorites, but could you honestly make a series with them as the protagonists? Zaheer is a straight no, but even Amon isn't going to be possible without a lot of ret-cons and some seriously shady editing of the world/characters/established whatnot. And that's with people perfectly fine with pasting on all sorts of depth and awesomeness to Amon and Zaheer.

Seriously though... why are people so excited about the idea of an evil Avatar? I'm being sincere - I don't get it.
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Mr Grieves
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« Reply #167 on: Sep 18, 2014 07:03 am »

Seriously though... why are people so excited about the idea of an evil Avatar? I'm being sincere - I don't get it.

Rule of cool I guess. Avatar is an action-heavy show and you gotta admit, evil Avatar in the Avatar state: s**t would get blowed up good.
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Arzon
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« Reply #168 on: Sep 18, 2014 02:20 pm »

Evil Avatar? No. Misguided Avatar (like Anakin)? Maybe
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« Reply #169 on: Sep 29, 2014 10:49 pm »

I like this idea. I really do. It's the reason I loved the idea of a Dark Avatar (until he became that giant red squid).

The problem with this idea is Raava. She IS the spirit of pure good. And I believe she, in a sense, chooses her host/hostess (although that has never been explored).

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« Reply #170 on: Sep 30, 2014 07:04 pm »

like Anakin

Way to put everyone off the idea Cheesy
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Phantom000
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« Reply #171 on: Dec 20, 2017 03:51 pm »

This is an idea i have thought about and here is my idea.

The Journey of Cheng

Centuries ago, the Earth Kingdom was in the middle of a bloody and destructive civil war. A general rebelled against the Earth King claiming he had murdered his father and brother to take the throne, the King condemns the general and claims he killed them so that he could assume control. The war drags on for years with no end in site and both sides try to wear down the other with attrition.

The we see of Cheng first is as a little boy wandering through a burning village crying for his mother. He is rescued by a traveler who takes him in and does his best to raise him. He is sort of a good guy version of Fagin from Oliver Twist, taking in kids who were orphaned by the war and teaching them to steal from corrupt soldiers and bureaucrats because there is nothing else for them anyway. So Cheng's ideas of right and wrong are skewed because for him the 'criminals' were the good guys and the 'cops' were the bad guys.

He is eventually found by an air-bender who is searching for the next avatar and convinces Cheng to come back to the air-temple with him. Cheng actually learns air-bending before he masters earth-bending, even getting an arrow tattoo as he now sees himself as an air-nomad more then an earth-kingdom citizen.

Eventually he travels to the other nations to learn fire and water bending but can only see how corrupt they are all becoming. As an adult he tries to work out a truce to end the civil war in the earth kingdom, but only gets dragged into the schemes of the two leaders. He asks for help from the Fire Nation and the Water Tribe only to discover they are secretly backing different sides in hopes of becoming the dominate power.

Finally, his wife is killed in a plot by the Earth King's son to turn Cheng against the general and unite the Earth Kingdom. Cheng retaliates by destroying the capital city, killing everyone. Then goes on to make demands that would dissolve the three nations and reform them like the Air-Nomads, the only nation he respects because it hasn't been corrupted.

When the Fire Lord and Water Chief refuse Cheng goes straight for their respected nations and kills them, leaving a trail of destruction in his wake as he kills anyone he opposes him with hardly a thought. The air nomads plead with Cheng to abandon this quest but he refuses, believing this is the reason he was made the Avatar then heads off to kill the Earth Kingdom General who is now, by default the ruler of the Earth Kingdom.

Nearing the finale we see him turning his home city into a massive stone walls around his city in a desperate attempt to keep the Avatar out. He is also joined by water benders lead by the Water Chief's widow and Fire Benders following the son of the Fire Lord and even some of the air-nomads, all wanting to stop Cheng. The result is this huge battle between Cheng and the four nations allied against him, and culminating with a battle between him, The Earth General, the Water Queen and the Fire Lord. The Fire Lord, a teenager, manages to finally kill Cheng but just barely survives himself.

At the end, just as Cheng dies, we see an expectant mother suddenly go into labor. She gives birth to a healthy daughter and when they tuck her into bed her eyes glow, showing that she is the next avatar.


For a framing device i liked the idea of Cheng telling his story to Aang who is trying to find out about this avatar that seems to have been erased from the record. Later, when Aang is telling the air acolytes about Cheng one of them asks turns out to be Zaheer who is inspired by the story and wants to follow in Cheng's foot steps.   

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Spartan Kobe
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« Reply #172 on: Dec 24, 2017 11:02 pm »

Without reading any posts here, you can have the avatar be an antagonist with him also being the hero. So you could have the protagonist be the villain of the story(think Death Note or Despicable Me).
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« Reply #173 on: Dec 26, 2017 09:42 am »

Writing AtlA from the fire nation’s perspective, where the avatar is first a fairytale, something you tell your kids comes after them if you don’t behave. Whisk you away like a wolfbat in the dead of night like the cowardly evil airbender he is. then, if alive, probably an old man hiding his life away, then just a little boy, a rather elusive trouble maker, a foot note in report, a rumor that slips through the filtered FN news, a nuisance, a threat, an invading force, and ultimately the one who defeats your Firelord, places his traitor weakling of a son on the throne, brings ruin and instability to the once great fire nation.
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