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Author Topic: A series in which the Avatar is the antagonist. Thoughts?  (Read 17281 times)
Om
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« Reply #25 on: Jul 14, 2006 10:46 am »

Meh
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« Reply #26 on: Jul 14, 2006 01:24 pm »

Well you'll forgive me for not understanding I tend not to think too highly of my pets

so are you one of those animal abusers or something?
Hey Aang is a kid of 12 and loosing Appa would be devistating to him, hey I know i value my animals... my guinea pig is much smarter then some people I know Tongue
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Space, the final frontier...
These are the voyages of the flying bison Appa.
His ongoing mission, to explore strange new worlds,
To help Aang seek out new bending masters and escape the firenation.
To boldy go where no flying bison has gone before...

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« Reply #27 on: Jul 14, 2006 08:07 pm »

Plus now we saw the movie, Appa does mean a lot to him
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Om
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« Reply #28 on: Jul 15, 2006 05:51 am »

Well what is a pet but something useful that you sometimes play with.
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xlegend34
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arman12 sharpiesrawesome42
« Reply #29 on: Jul 15, 2006 11:47 am »

But Appa is more than that to Aang, their connected, he's his animal guide, and one of the only things left from his past, except Bumi.
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« Reply #30 on: Jul 15, 2006 04:55 pm »

I believe that there is no such thing as the 'dark' avatar, because I think that they are born good, because they are born into an avatar (which keeps balance in the world), so that's why there's been literally thousands of avatars
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« Reply #31 on: Jul 15, 2006 06:14 pm »

You guys put too much on Aang, whether he is the Avatar or not, he is still just a normal person, and he will have conflicts within himself, where he will get mad, it's natural, he was born to keep balance in the world, doesn't mean he can't get mad to that point, but personally I hope he doesn't again.
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« Reply #32 on: Aug 02, 2006 11:08 am »

Nobody's perfect. But Lieselle I think evil is a strong word, I think if the... uhh... Greater
Being(s) didn't have this concern they wouldn't have made it so each Avatar is an incarnate of the last.
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« Reply #33 on: Aug 02, 2006 11:16 am »

Nice theory ..that would be a pretty big twist in ATLAB. But the Avatar "cant" be "evil" because his previous lives werent and because its his "Destiny" to save the world.
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« Reply #34 on: Aug 02, 2006 02:43 pm »

Not entirely evil, but perhaps in some way, or something caused them to act in an "evil"
 like manner in one's perspective. Ex: that past Avatar that had attempted to kill Koh because he stole the face of someone he loved. perhaps not evil, but definetly seeking revenge on a spirit isnt something you do on a daily basis, if you know what I mean. I dont think theres any such thing as something being "Completely" evil, but what I'm trying to imply is that there could be such thing as an Avatar that was corrupted to do [or tempted] to do something of unspeakable horror, at least something considered somewhat bad.

And no, I dont mean like steal a squishy.
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« Reply #35 on: Aug 02, 2006 07:59 pm »

Well when it comes to morality, its relative.  I mean the Avatar could be doing something we consider bad, but he/she considers good.  So I guess if you wanted to see the Avatar do bad things, it would just depend on your perspective. 
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« Reply #36 on: Aug 02, 2006 09:27 pm »

I happen to think there is such a thing as completely evil.  I also happen to think there were evil avatars.  I find it incredibly unlikely that all the avatars were benevolent.  The kind of power they possess has incredible potential to corrupt them.  I am positive that there were evil avatars (as in consciously and deliberately malevolent) in the past.

I would not be surprised if the elemental sages were created for the purpose of making sure an avatar does not become corrupted.
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« Reply #37 on: Aug 02, 2006 09:32 pm »

I happen to think there is such a thing as completely evil.  I also happen to think there were evil avatars.  I find it incredibly unlikely that all the avatars were benevolent.  The kind of power they possess has incredible potential to corrupt them.  I am positive that there were evil avatars (as in consciously and deliberately malevolent) in the past.

I would not be surprised if the elemental sages were created for the purpose of making sure an avatar does not become corrupted.


Though why would they be that way purposely?  There would have to be a reason for their corruption.  Most people would not do something unless it had some kind of gain, whether that gain be for them or for someone else.  No person would do something like that without a reason and cause.  

The avatar might not be a "regular" person, but unless he has some bizzare mental state, I believe an Avatar would act like the rest of us.  
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« Reply #38 on: Aug 02, 2006 10:46 pm »

insane sidenote(UJOF's Fault Smiley)- but was thinking about when Aang went and met koh..this point has something to do with what UJOF said aswell.. Koh talks to Aang about his predecessor attacking him for taking the face of a loved one, and then when Aang is leaving he says "we will meet again". As i write this i think i may be clutching at straws, but what if Koh steals the face of Katara,Toph, etc and Aang has to make a desicion between continuing in his quest and saving the world, or like his predecessor, is somewhat selfish and confronts Koh??
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« Reply #39 on: Aug 03, 2006 03:08 am »

I happen to think there is such a thing as completely evil.  I also happen to think there were evil avatars.  I find it incredibly unlikely that all the avatars were benevolent.  The kind of power they possess has incredible potential to corrupt them.  I am positive that there were evil avatars (as in consciously and deliberately malevolent) in the past.

I would not be surprised if the elemental sages were created for the purpose of making sure an avatar does not become corrupted.

Though why would they be that way purposely?  There would have to be a reason for their corruption.  Most people would not do something unless it had some kind of gain, whether that gain be for them or for someone else.  No person would do something like that without a reason and cause.  

The avatar might not be a "regular" person, but unless he has some bizzare mental state, I believe an Avatar would act like the rest of us.  
Simple.  The acquisition of more power.  With all the power an Avatar has, he or she could live like a god amongst men.  The allure of ruling over the world must have seduced at least one or two avatars.  Besides, the best way to "preserve" balance in the world is by ruling it.  If you rule the world, you set the rules.  I find it interesting that everyone shares the same language.  My guess is that at some point in the past, an avatar conquered the world and spread a common language.
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« Reply #40 on: Aug 03, 2006 06:28 am »

hmm.. i'm like new in here and stuff, but i just read this thread and thought, well the opinion of good and evil is just a point of view, it's all subjective. the whole desire of money, respect, love and power, maybe the avatar is far beyond that and when/if he'd put the world in order and bring balance between the elements ans stuff, then maybe he would only want to reach a state of enlightinment... or just ride giant koi-fish all day, but well, that's just my humble opinion ^^'
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« Reply #41 on: Aug 03, 2006 10:24 am »

I don't think the Avatar lived like a begger. They were respected among all the nations so much so that they have temples and servants and places and days named after and in honour of them.

Why rule when everyone defers to your wisdom anyway.
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Darmani
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« Reply #42 on: Aug 03, 2006 10:27 am »

An avatar is two things.  A frail mortal person of flesh and the incarnation of the combined will and elements of the Earth, blessed as the bridge between our worlds.

I do believe an Avatar can choose evil even with all the good he has going for it.  They could fall to cynicism.  They could be tempted or fall to hate.  One aspect of the Avatars I've always liked that they kept is fearfulness they can inspire.  They are strange.

We've also seen Aang's failings.  However an Avatar will likely not be without moral guidance.  When Aang lost it in the southern temple Roku sent his dragon so he could contact Aang more directly.  I imagine something like this could happen even for, say, an errant avatar who hasn't been collected and raised right.  Of course from what we've seen of the spirit world being spoken to by its resident may not be a good thing.  Some if not like Ozai are still bad people.
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« Reply #43 on: Aug 07, 2006 10:30 pm »

I had thought about creating a thread solely for this, but this one will do nicely.

Let's evaluate Aang's decision to lie to the Zhang and Gan Jin tribes in "The Great Divide."

On the one hand, we have two fueding tribes, people who have been fighting over an event for 100 years. The Zhang truly felt that the Gan Jin have wronged them by stealing something precious to them. Yet the Gan Jin have been told that their ancestor merely wished to help and ended up getting thrown in jail. Since this day, the two tribes have carried a visceral hate for each other, one that almost got them both killed. Yet by coming together to defeat the canyon crawlers, they came to the realization they could get along. Even though the wound wasn't healed, they had made progress.

Let's pause for a moment. Should Aang have left well enough alone, or was it the "right" thing to do for him to tell the tribes his version of what happened?

Now, let's look at Aang's story, and then the connotations. From the ASN transcript:

Quote
There seems to be a lot of confusion about what happened. First of all, Jin Wei and Wei Jin weren't enemies, they were brothers (the two stop fighting and look at each other in shock), twins in fact (they change instantly with a popping sound to look alike except for their clothes) and they were eight (the scene splits to reveal very young, chibi versions of the two characters, music box like music begins to play in the background) and most importantly, they were just playing a game! (The two kids smile and open their mouths in laughter). The sacred orb from the legend (a balls drops between the two kids) ...that was the ball. And the eastern and western gates were the goal posts (screen widens to show a playing field with two gate-like goal posts). Jin Wei had the ball and was running toward the goal when he fell and fumbled it. Win Jei didn't steal the ball, he picked it up and started running it back toward the other goal. But he stepped out of bounds (a referee in the shape of a panda appears, waving a red flag and blowing a whistle), so the official put him in the penalty box, not for twenty long years, but for two short minutes.

(Jin Wei appears, laughing and pointing at the unhappy Wei Jin. Fade back to the present.)

Aang: There was no stealing and no putting anyone in prison. Just a game.
Zhang Leader: You're saying the sacred orb was actually a sacred ball?
Aang: Nope, just a regular ball.
Scout: What about our tribe's redemption ritual?
Aang: That's what the game was called, Redemption. As soon as someone got the ball from one goal to the other everyone would yell, "redemption!" (The leaders look at each other) Don't get me wrong, Wei Jin was kind of a slob and Jin Wei was a little stuffy, that much is true, but they respected each others differences enough to share the same playing field.
Zhang Leader: (to Gan Jin Leader) I suppose it's time we forget the past...
Gan Jin Leader: (bowing to Zhang Leader) ...and look to the future.

And later, once the tribes come together as one,

Quote
Aang: (smiling) You could call it luck. (Grinning evilly) Or, you could call it... lying! ... I made the whole thing up!

First, he reduces what was in reality a very sacred and important event to the Zhangs to a simple children's game. I'm rather wont to see it as downright insulting. By reducing it to a children's game, he does two things. He firstly makes the fued into something extremely childish, and secondly makes it seem as though over time, the tale had been retold so much that it had been trumped up to be something it wasn't. It is true that over time, stories can become like a game of telephone, were at the beginning you have the story, and at the end, you have "purple monkey dishwasher."

Second, he lied to the tribes to achieve peace, bringing up an important question: does the end justify the means? The tribes accepted his explanation, because he is 112 years old and it was plausible for him to have met the leaders of the tribes at that time, and also because I guess it sounded reasonable to them. It caused the tribes to bury the hatchet, but was it the right thing to do? As the Avatar, Aang's job is peacekeeping, but should that peacekeeping come at the expense of lying?
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« Reply #44 on: Aug 07, 2006 11:43 pm »

The end does not always justify the means (that's why we distinguish Pyrrhic victories from regular victories), but in this case, I think it did. Without Aang's whopper, both tribes would probably have become Canyon Crawler kibble. The truth is precious, but not more precious than a few dozen lives.
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« Reply #45 on: Aug 08, 2006 12:12 am »

That's why I LOVE this show.  Often characters like aang never think of stuff like this.  Characters IN the narrative never notice the ridiculous coincidences.  This is why I consider episodes like the Great Divide and Avatar Day to be very good time spent even if they aren't as dramatic to the overall plot.

Ahem.  I think the reason Aang took the route he did was in part that the tribes were mostly getting over their issues in the now with each other it was just this past stuff holding them back.  So aang figured a way to get rid of it.

Everyone came out of the great divide a little more real and dirty but in a way that was cool

I'm STILL pissed at that guide though.  These were whiney tourists, they were refugees any food they didn't have was the risk they wouldn't eat until they got to Ba sing Se and even THEN it was up in the air.  Why oh WHY couldn't he have mentioned the lack of food before Appa took their sick and elderly across the canyon, WHY!  Such a jerk...thank heaven for that ass.

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« Reply #46 on: Aug 12, 2006 07:25 pm »

I happen to think there is such a thing as completely evil.  I also happen to think there were evil avatars.  I find it incredibly unlikely that all the avatars were benevolent.  The kind of power they possess has incredible potential to corrupt them.  I am positive that there were evil avatars (as in consciously and deliberately malevolent) in the past.

I would not be surprised if the elemental sages were created for the purpose of making sure an avatar does not become corrupted.

Though why would they be that way purposely?  There would have to be a reason for their corruption.  Most people would not do something unless it had some kind of gain, whether that gain be for them or for someone else.  No person would do something like that without a reason and cause.  

The avatar might not be a "regular" person, but unless he has some bizzare mental state, I believe an Avatar would act like the rest of us.  
Simple.  The acquisition of more power.  With all the power an Avatar has, he or she could live like a god amongst men.  The allure of ruling over the world must have seduced at least one or two avatars.  Besides, the best way to "preserve" balance in the world is by ruling it.  If you rule the world, you set the rules.  I find it interesting that everyone shares the same language.  My guess is that at some point in the past, an avatar conquered the world and spread a common language.

But that isn't being evil.  That's personal gain, something that the avatar would think that would be beneficial to him.  It might be evil to others, but it is not necissarily evil to the avatar himself/herself. 
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« Reply #47 on: Aug 12, 2006 08:25 pm »

But isn't doing things which benefit you and harm others simply because you can a definition of evil?  Evil is a subjective term, but it has to start somewhere.
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« Reply #48 on: Aug 14, 2006 01:42 am »

But isn't doing things which benefit you and harm others simply because you can a definition of evil?  Evil is a subjective term, but it has to start somewhere.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are typing.  It would be appreciated if you explained it a little more.  

Well what I'm trying to get across is that good and evil (well at least to me) is relative.  One man's hero is another man's enemy.  I don't know about you guys, but it does not seem as if there is an absolute good and absolute evil.  
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« Reply #49 on: Aug 14, 2006 02:18 am »

I believe the Avatar could never be evil. Assuming the show is continuing on an avatar legacy, the New avatar has a guide, Aang's being Avatar Roku. This guide is "good" and supplies the new avatar with his/her destiny. Even if the avatar was raised like Azula, there would be the everpowerful spirit guide there to fix/change things. If aang can be possessed by Roku, such as in the Soultice episode, I'm sure Roku could also take shape to stop aang from doing something bad/evil.
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