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Author Topic: Comparing Toph and Bumi  (Read 9608 times)
Ycarus
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« on: Jul 26, 2008 04:12 am »

Both are frighteningly power earthbenders, but so different in their own way.  Bumi seems to essentially be a very powerful, but standard earthbender.  He likes ripping up huge rocks and throwing them, what he lacks in finesse, he makes up for with sheer force.  Toph's earthbending is unique in many ways.  She focuses on economy of movement, using small, significant shifts to unbalance her opponent.  (The first time we see her bend, she defeats an accomplished earthbender with two simple, precise, controlled moves.)  An example of this is her use of earth as protection, in the scene where Bumi puts up a barrier to protect himself from the tanks, he then throws it down and picks up individual rocks to throw.  Tophs technique would have involved keeping the barrier up and throwing pieces of it at the tanks, thereby keeping cover while acting offensively.

Her attention to detail is also what separates her from Bumi.  She creates a complete replica of Ba Sing Se in sand in less than a second with a single move.  Its what allows her to metalbend, as it requires her to keep track of each impurity in the metal in order to bend it.  (There could have been millions in the door she wore as armor, for example.)

That's not to say that Bumi hasn't forgotten more about earthbending than Toph knows, but rather that toph knows things about earthbending that even a 112 year old earthbender doesn't know.
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Manaic742
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 26, 2008 06:26 am »

I agree with you completely.

Toph has the most beautiful looking fighting style in the series.  I love her stance and her movements, especially her mantis-like wrist strikes.  In Japanese it's called koken(no idea what the Chinese call it).  What irks me most is how different Aang's earthbending looks from hers.  His is more "standard", but didn't he learn from Toph?  Shouldn't Aang's movements resemble hers the most?  But they never do Sad
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Hoshika-Pichu
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 26, 2008 07:21 am »

I agree with you completely.

Toph has the most beautiful looking fighting style in the series.  I love her stance and her movements, especially her mantis-like wrist strikes.  In Japanese it's called koken(no idea what the Chinese call it).  What irks me most is how different Aang's earthbending looks from hers.  His is more "standard", but didn't he learn from Toph?  Shouldn't Aang's movements resemble hers the most?  But they never do Sad

Maybe Toph knows both styles, but almost always uses her own. Toph's Earthbending style is different from any other Earthbender in the Avatar universe, so it must not work the same way with Aang. Aang does know Toph's style, though, as seen in the finale and other moments.
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K-Flyer
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 26, 2008 07:30 am »

An example of this is her use of earth as protection, in the scene where Bumi puts up a barrier to protect himself from the tanks, he then throws it down and picks up individual rocks to throw.  Tophs technique would have involved keeping the barrier up and throwing pieces of it at the tanks, thereby keeping cover while acting offensively.

The thing is that Bumi had to put down his rock barrier to see his enemies. Toph can "see" them no matter what is in front of her. Bumi can't. He has to see his enemy to know what to do next. Also what Bumi lacks in precision he makes up for in versatility. I has such control of his earth bending that he can use his face instead of his hands. To our knowledge Toph must use her style to earth/sand/metalbend.
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CoterminousDerelict
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 26, 2008 07:34 am »

Keep in mind that King Bumi is a 100 years old and Toph is only 12.

Just imagine what she would be capable once she reaches that age.
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aa623
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« Reply #5 on: Jul 26, 2008 07:38 am »

He's actually 112.
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« Reply #6 on: Jul 26, 2008 07:53 am »

Maybe Toph knows both styles, but almost always uses her own. Toph's Earthbending style is different from any other Earthbender in the Avatar universe, so it must not work the same way with Aang. Aang does know Toph's style, though, as seen in the finale and other moments.

Aang's earthbending in the finale looks as standard as ever, just with a larger magnitude.  Toph's stance and movements are unique among earthbenders and the difference isn't subtle by any means.  Aang's style doesn't resemble hers in the least.
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Hoshika-Pichu
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« Reply #7 on: Jul 26, 2008 07:56 am »

Aang's earthbending in the finale looks as standard as ever, just with a larger magnitude.  Toph's stance and movements are unique among earthbenders and the difference isn't subtle by any means.  Aang's style doesn't resemble hers in the least.

I meant the part where Oazi tried to strike and Aang sensed his movement like how Toph does it. That's what I meant about him knowing the style.

More on-topic and in a very biased point of view, Bumi is better because he eats rock candy. :D
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Manaic742
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 26, 2008 08:04 am »

More on-topic and in a very biased point of view, Bumi is better because he eats rock candy. Cheesy

Bumi's like 112.  He probably lost his own teeth decades ago and has dentures made of diamond or something(poorly maintained dentures, I might add).
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tokkatokkatokka
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 26, 2008 10:17 am »

People are saying that Bumi is 'standard,' which I agree with-- He uses it for defense/offense, and the occasional "blast off!" interlude (Sorry, just referring to his 'exit' in "Old Masters" when the GAang meet up with him and the other White Lotus members Cheesy), whereas Toph is 'specialized.'

Maybe Toph knows both styles, but almost always uses her own.

She'd need to learn the 'basic' stances (the 'standard' style of earthbending) before she could add her own flips and tricks. Thus, it is the 'standard' style, but all the tweaks and such that she has made to perfect her earthbending abilities made it into her own, personal style.  ... It would be quite odd if she didn't know the standard style, wouldn't it? Tongue

And in all honesty, if your technique is quite unique, why would you let someone else learn your secrets? I certainly wouldn't-- I'm the type of person that teaches the basics of something, and let's the student interpret what to do from there. That, and I guess I'm selfish. >_>;

---

Toph learned the art of earthbending as 'an extension of herself,' rather for combat (When she was young, of course.). She used it to aid in her 'vision,' feeling the earth's plate-tectonics and such to figure out who's who and where she was. Which much attention to detail/precision and patience would be needed.

I doubt it would be possible for anyone to imitate her style, not unless they're visually impaired-- like her (Then, they may be able to 'understand' better.). That's why so much attention is given to her style, to influence the specialization and uniqueness that Toph has put into it-- And I agree, it is beyond beautiful!

It sort of reminds of how some firebenders (like Ozai and Azula) are able to learn to generate lightning, whereas some can't (Like Zuko-- who can only redirect it, at this point of the series.). It's just the matter of how someone can personalize/manipulate their ability to create something unique and new.


He probably lost his own teeth decades ago and has dentures made of diamond or something(poorly maintained dentures, I might add).

Or, for what teeth he has left-- he may be able to 'earthbend' the minerals in his teeth to make them stronger?  Tongue
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Avatar Hogaki
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 26, 2008 10:22 am »

I agree with you completely.

Toph has the most beautiful looking fighting style in the series.  I love her stance and her movements, especially her mantis-like wrist strikes.  In Japanese it's called koken(no idea what the Chinese call it).  What irks me most is how different Aang's earthbending looks from hers.  His is more "standard", but didn't he learn from Toph?  Shouldn't Aang's movements resemble hers the most?  But they never do Sad

Well yoph IS blind i would assume that she usees a diffrent type of earth bending than the starered. Scines aang isnt blind he would uses a starndered form which toph also knows
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 26, 2008 11:42 am »

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« Reply #12 on: Jul 26, 2008 12:00 pm »

its been said by bryke in some interview that they wanted toph to have a unique style because of her blindness.  aang you would think would resemble tophs, but still...never doubt the will of Mike and Bryan.
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Manaic742
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« Reply #13 on: Jul 26, 2008 05:37 pm »

She'd need to learn the 'basic' stances (the 'standard' style of earthbending) before she could add her own flips and tricks. Thus, it is the 'standard' style, but all the tweaks and such that she has made to perfect her earthbending abilities made it into her own, personal style.  ... It would be quite odd if she didn't know the standard style, wouldn't it? Tongue

And in all honesty, if your technique is quite unique, why would you let someone else learn your secrets? I certainly wouldn't-- I'm the type of person that teaches the basics of something, and let's the student interpret what to do from there. That, and I guess I'm selfish. >_>;

It would actually make LESS sense if Toph knew "standard" earthbending.  She didn't learn earthbending from an earthbending teacher and she can't exactly see the movements one would show her.

And your second argument is lamest excuse ever.  Martial arts is about teaching as much as it is about learning and discovery.  If you don't teach someone what your "secrets" then they die with you, which is pointless.  Aang learned from Toph.  Not only that, Aang learned while WATCHING Toph, so he knows what her style is like probably better than anyone else.  So why doesn't his style resemble hers ever?

The excuse "but he did it before he spirit bended on the fire lord" = fail.  He did NOT use Toph's style on Ozai.  So homeboy can see with his feet.  That means nothing.  Toph almost NEVER uses kicks.  Why?  Because it's disadvantageous for her feet to leave the ground, and the stance he used to circle Ozai was as air bender as ever.
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« Reply #14 on: Jul 26, 2008 06:07 pm »

I always looked at Aang's bending as a blended version of the four types of bending.  We have seen multiple cases where moves tend to look or move the same (Aang and Zuko's air/fire slices, Katara and Zuko's whips ect) even the move to re-direct lightening - a "sub-bending whatever" of Firebending uses Waterbending teachings, right?

He is taught Toph's kind of Earthbending and it shows in certain points in his bending, (where he is connected to the ground, when he could feel Ozai behind him at the end) but otherwise, he knows all four types better than anyone else.  Which means he knows how to use all four to his advantage at the same time.  Firebending has powerful kicks and Airbending is all about "from the Air-attacks".

I kinda lost where I was going with this... but, Aang knows Toph's style, but he's not just an Earthbender when he's Earthbending... did I make any sense at all?
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« Reply #15 on: Jul 26, 2008 06:10 pm »

I agree with you completely.

Toph has the most beautiful looking fighting style in the series.  I love her stance and her movements, especially her mantis-like wrist strikes.  In Japanese it's called koken(no idea what the Chinese call it).  What irks me most is how different Aang's earthbending looks from hers.  His is more "standard", but didn't he learn from Toph?  Shouldn't Aang's movements resemble hers the most?  But they never do Sad

Well, Aang is an Air bender first off.  Earth bending is his opposite, so he may still be getting used to the feel of it.  And he does do the whole 'listen to the earth' thing quite well.  So he is learning well from Toph, though still has quite a ways to go.

Besides, Toph's blind and Aang isn't.  He may be a good earth bender, but I don't know if he could ever truly master what Toph's been doing her whole life because he relies on his eyesight - she even mentions it as a disadvantage.  She feels the Earth, and Aang doesn't use that technique as much as she might like him to. 
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« Reply #16 on: Jul 26, 2008 06:14 pm »

If they got into a fight, there are two possible outcomes.

1. Lasts forever, as neither can lose
2. Similar reaction to falcon punches colliding
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« Reply #17 on: Jul 26, 2008 06:39 pm »

Well my six year old son says that Bumi is really tough but not tougher than Toph.  I will go with him!  Cheesy

Seriously, they both are very powerful benders.  Toph does have one up on Bumi and that is metal bending.  Oh and the waiting and listening whole thing.

its been said by bryke in some interview that they wanted toph to have a unique style because of her blindness.  aang you would think would resemble tophs, but still...never doubt the will of Mike and Bryan.

He might not have her stances and "style" but he can see with earthbending.  That is what he needed to learn from Toph.  He does not have to earthbend like her in any other way but the most important part.
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« Reply #18 on: Jul 26, 2008 11:39 pm »

Toph's earthbending is part of how she interacts with the world, much like daredevil, her disability allows her earthbending to be precise and awesome. and the fact she had a special connection with the original earthbenders makes her even more formidable. Bumi is great but Toph rules. she medalbends, earthbend  and now can sandbend using unique and even better styles; sensing opponents next move. so toph is  arguably the most powerful earthbender with Bumi close second, if Bumi is better then slightly, a few more years and Toph will be on top. she might go down as the greatest earthbender that ever lived aside from kyoshi and bumi.
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« Reply #19 on: Jul 26, 2008 11:59 pm »

If they got into a fight, there are two possible outcomes.

1. Lasts forever, as neither can lose
2. Similar reaction to falcon punches colliding

Gave me a nice lol. Good one. xD

I'd have to agree with what's been mostly said here, mainly the original post. Although, we've never seen Toph earthbend actual buildings before unlike Bumi, and I really don't think she'd be able to bend with just a tilt of her head and no contact of her feet against earth. But her other moves definitely make up for those facts. It's like standard brute force meets original precise style, with masters in each areas. Or, you know, two Falcon Punches colliding.
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« Reply #20 on: Jul 27, 2008 12:23 am »

Didn't Toph learn her bending from the blind moles underground? Didn't they say, in The Firebending Masters, that earthbending was originated from those moles?

That would probably explain why Toph is so powerful at such a young age, she learned from the best of the best.
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« Reply #21 on: Jul 27, 2008 01:07 am »


^^yeah she did...maybe Oma was as powerful--or more powerful--than Toph, since she learned from the badgermoles too


but nothing beats Aang's barrage of earth projectiles
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Ycarus
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« Reply #22 on: Jul 27, 2008 01:22 am »


^^yeah she did...maybe Oma was as powerful--or more powerful--than Toph, since she learned from the badgermoles too


but nothing beats Aang's barrage of earth projectiles

My jaw dropped when he turned that compressed boulder into a submachinegun.
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chinfresty1
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« Reply #23 on: Jul 27, 2008 04:33 am »

I agree with you completely.

Toph has the most beautiful looking fighting style in the series.  I love her stance and her movements, especially her mantis-like wrist strikes.  In Japanese it's called koken(no idea what the Chinese call it).  What irks me most is how different Aang's earthbending looks from hers.  His is more "standard", but didn't he learn from Toph?  Shouldn't Aang's movements resemble hers the most?  But they never do Sad

Actually the shift between the styles of earth bending as they switch from Toph to Aang mirror an actual contreversy in martial arts, although im not sure they meant it. Toph's form of bending is clearly modeld after the southern tradition of the "praying mantis" style, which often isnt even known as praying mantis. However Aangs is extremely similiar to the nothern style which emphasizes alot of larger circular movements to create space before attacking and the use of an enmys force against themselves, much more similar to Bau Gau which is the martial art that Aang is using.
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« Reply #24 on: Jul 27, 2008 05:14 am »



It would actually make LESS sense if Toph knew "standard" earthbending.  She didn't learn earthbending from an earthbending teacher and she can't exactly see the movements one would show her.


Someone haven't watched "The Blind Bandit".

Toph has been taught standard earthbending by Master Yu for ages- It's just that they never went very far beyond the basics.

This part of your argument fails.
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