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Author Topic: [316] The Southern Raiders  (Read 78520 times)
Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1150 on: Jun 19, 2014 03:46 pm »

Quote
Just simply "I will kill others if it means achieving my goals" Evil.

And enjoying killing while he did that. Seriously, stop ignoring the fact that he smirked when he told Kya that he would kill her. That is NOT what a soldier serving their country does. That is something a sadist does, in a home where he knows the woman he is about to kill raised her child.
« Last Edit: Jun 19, 2014 03:48 pm by Furudo Erika » Logged
Zyrax
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« Reply #1151 on: Jun 19, 2014 04:01 pm »

Quote
Just simply "I will kill others if it means achieving my goals" Evil.

And enjoying killing while he did that. Seriously, stop ignoring the fact that he smirked when he told Kya that he would kill her. That is NOT what a soldier serving their country does. That is something a sadist does, in a home where he knows the woman he is about to kill raised her child.
A sadist enjoys killing others, He was smirking because he accomplished his goal. A true sadist would have captured her and do unspeakable things to her. And stop making people look like saints, a lot of people in real life would have killed Katara rather than let her go.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1152 on: Jun 19, 2014 04:12 pm »

Quote
Just simply "I will kill others if it means achieving my goals" Evil.

And enjoying killing while he did that. Seriously, stop ignoring the fact that he smirked when he told Kya that he would kill her. That is NOT what a soldier serving their country does. That is something a sadist does, in a home where he knows the woman he is about to kill raised her child.
A sadist enjoys killing others, He was smirking because he accomplished his goal. A true sadist would have captured her and do unspeakable things to her. And stop making people look like saints, a lot of people in real life would have killed Katara rather than let her go.

I don't know how life in your place is to make you think that "a lot of people" would simply kill a child, but it's messed up. And I want to believe that that is not true. Majority of humanity would not be able to kill a child. We have a lot of ugly sides, but I don't think we have fallen that low.

And I'm not living in the most peaceful place in the world either. My country experienced a real war back in 2008 against Russia and there was a high chance probability of my own death, along with rest of my family. I know what humanity is capable of but I don't think we, humans, are that much of savages yet.
« Last Edit: Jun 19, 2014 04:18 pm by Furudo Erika » Logged
Zyrax
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« Reply #1153 on: Jun 19, 2014 04:22 pm »

Quote
Just simply "I will kill others if it means achieving my goals" Evil.

And enjoying killing while he did that. Seriously, stop ignoring the fact that he smirked when he told Kya that he would kill her. That is NOT what a soldier serving their country does. That is something a sadist does, in a home where he knows the woman he is about to kill raised her child.
A sadist enjoys killing others, He was smirking because he accomplished his goal. A true sadist would have captured her and do unspeakable things to her. And stop making people look like saints, a lot of people in real life would have killed Katara rather than let her go.

I don't know how life in the place you're living is to make you think that "a lot of people" would kill a child, but it's messed up. And I want to believe that that is not true. Majority of humanity would not be able to kill a child. We have a lot of ugly sides, but I don't think we have fallen that low.

And I'm not living in the most peaceful place in the world either. My country experienced a real war back in 2008 against Russia and there was a high chance probability of my death. I know what humanity is capable of but I don't think we humans are that much of savages yet.
Not everyone is a complete savage but someone like Yon Rha who was raised to believe that something like the Air Genocide was actually a good thing isn't going to value human life. Besides this still doesn't changed the fact that He is as bad as 80% of the Fire Nation soilders, If he needs to be killed then Zuko should have had every FN Soilder who ever killed a person killed once he became a firelord
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1154 on: Jun 19, 2014 04:25 pm »

Unfortunately, unlike Yon Rha, we don't see normal soldiers enjoy destroying peoples life. We don't see them smirk as they are about to kill a mother. They serve their country. People like Yon Rha justify violence in the disguise of war (Which is a very common thing)
« Last Edit: Jun 20, 2014 02:39 am by Furudo Erika » Logged
Zyrax
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« Reply #1155 on: Jun 19, 2014 04:46 pm »

Unfortunately, unlike Yon Rha, we don't see normal soldiers enjoy destroying peoples life. we don't see them smirk as they are about to kill a mother. They serve their country. People like Yon Rha justify violence in the disguise of war (Which is a very common thing)
How do we know there aren't many soilders who enjoyed Killing others? Besides wether he enjoyed killing her or not that doesn't deny the fact that he was given orders to do it. If a cop took Pleasure in killing a criminal should he be imprisoned? No.
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Loopy
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« Reply #1156 on: Jun 19, 2014 07:29 pm »

By that logic Israeli people are evil because they  celebrate the death's of many Palestine/Syrian/Lebnan People

I can sign on with that logic. (Naturally, I'm not saying that all Israeli people are evil, just the ones who act this way.) It's an awful reality that killing happens, and people can be forced to make choices where killing is the least wrong thing to do.

However, anyone who enjoys it is a monster, plain and simple. Whether they're sick like that because they were raised that way, or sick like that because of a neurological flaw, they're sick, sick in a way we call Evil.

"Everyone dies. It is the final and only ever lasting justice. Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides to kill a village, this is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist. There is no greater good than justice; and only if law serves justice is it a good law. It is said correctly that law exists not for the just but for the unjust, for the just carry the law in their hearts, and do not need to call it from afar."
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1157 on: Jun 20, 2014 03:44 am »

By that logic Israeli people are evil because they  celebrate the death's of many Palestine/Syrian/Lebnan People

I can sign on with that logic. (Naturally, I'm not saying that all Israeli people are evil, just the ones who act this way.) It's an awful reality that killing happens, and people can be forced to make choices where killing is the least wrong thing to do.

However, anyone who enjoys it is a monster, plain and simple. Whether they're sick like that because they were raised that way, or sick like that because of a neurological flaw, they're sick, sick in a way we call Evil.

"Everyone dies. It is the final and only ever lasting justice. Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides to kill a village, this is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist. There is no greater good than justice; and only if law serves justice is it a good law. It is said correctly that law exists not for the just but for the unjust, for the just carry the law in their hearts, and do not need to call it from afar."
There is no such thing as good and evil, just read this:

Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #1158 on: Jun 20, 2014 07:04 am »

Yon Rha was probably smirking for two reasons : Sheer sadism and the possibilty of being hailed in the FN as the one who killed the last south waterbender.
Then he went on to live with his irascible mother away from glory and forgotten by nearly everyone, really, he already got his punishment by becoming a nobody.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1159 on: Jun 20, 2014 08:12 am »

Yon Rha was probably smirking for two reasons : Sheer sadism and the possibilty of being hailed in the FN as the one who killed the last south waterbender.
Then he went on to live with his irascible mother away from glory and forgotten by nearly everyone, really, he already got his punishment by becoming a nobody.

That's why Katara didn't kill him.
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1160 on: Jun 20, 2014 09:31 am »

Yon Rha was probably smirking for two reasons : Sheer sadism and the possibilty of being hailed in the FN as the one who killed the last south waterbender.
Then he went on to live with his irascible mother away from glory and forgotten by nearly everyone, really, he already got his punishment by becoming a nobody.
Like I said him enjoying killing her doesn't matter when in the end of the day It was during war and Kya was an enemy, I wonder if people would been calling him evil like they are doing now if he killed Hadoka instead.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1161 on: Jun 20, 2014 12:26 pm »

Yon Rha was probably smirking for two reasons : Sheer sadism and the possibilty of being hailed in the FN as the one who killed the last south waterbender.
Then he went on to live with his irascible mother away from glory and forgotten by nearly everyone, really, he already got his punishment by becoming a nobody.
Like I said him enjoying killing her doesn't matter when in the end of the day It was during war and Kya was an enemy, I wonder if people would been calling him evil like they are doing now if he killed Hadoka instead.

Yes, I would have. It doesn't matter what he felt or who he killed? What a bunch of crap! The fact that he felt enjoyment means that he's a sadistic, sick person.
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1162 on: Jun 20, 2014 04:08 pm »

Unfortunately, unlike Yon Rha, we don't see normal soldiers enjoy destroying peoples life. we don't see them smirk as they are about to kill a mother. They serve their country. People like Yon Rha justify violence in the disguise of war (Which is a very common thing)
How do we know there aren't many soilders who enjoyed Killing others? Besides wether he enjoyed killing her or not that doesn't deny the fact that he was given orders to do it. If a cop took Pleasure in killing a criminal should he be imprisoned? No.

Yes! Holy sh*t, of course he should! If a cop killed a criminal and it wasn't self-defence, he should go to jail! And if he took pleasure in it, he should probably be fired even if it was self-defence!

People like that should never be given power over others. The role of the police is to serve and to protect, not to happily slaughter everyone who steps out of line. That only works if you're trying to build some kind of terrifying dictatorship.


By that logic Israeli people are evil because they  celebrate the death's of many Palestine/Syrian/Lebnan People

I can sign on with that logic. (Naturally, I'm not saying that all Israeli people are evil, just the ones who act this way.) It's an awful reality that killing happens, and people can be forced to make choices where killing is the least wrong thing to do.

However, anyone who enjoys it is a monster, plain and simple. Whether they're sick like that because they were raised that way, or sick like that because of a neurological flaw, they're sick, sick in a way we call Evil.

"Everyone dies. It is the final and only ever lasting justice. Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides to kill a village, this is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist. There is no greater good than justice; and only if law serves justice is it a good law. It is said correctly that law exists not for the just but for the unjust, for the just carry the law in their hearts, and do not need to call it from afar."
There is no such thing as good and evil, just read this:

Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!

So anyone should just feel free to kill whomever?

Dude, you're scaring me.


Yon Rha was probably smirking for two reasons : Sheer sadism and the possibilty of being hailed in the FN as the one who killed the last south waterbender.
Then he went on to live with his irascible mother away from glory and forgotten by nearly everyone, really, he already got his punishment by becoming a nobody.
Like I said him enjoying killing her doesn't matter when in the end of the day It was during war and Kya was an enemy, I wonder if people would been calling him evil like they are doing now if he killed Hadoka instead.

Yes, I would have. It doesn't matter what he felt or who he killed? What a bunch of crap! The fact that he felt enjoyment means that he's a sadistic, sick person.

Agreed. Being under orders doesn't excuse you acting like a sadist. Besides, Kya was a civilian, what he did there was a war crime (to our standards, of course. But still, anyone with a heart would be unhappy doing that sort of thing).
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1163 on: Jun 21, 2014 06:13 am »

I feel like people are looking at this in a black and white point of view.
He was a mere soilder whos biggest crime was murdering a potential threat out of order from Azulon. He wasn't a death camp doctor. He didn't murder the entire tribe, he didn't do this by his own decision, if anything killing her was likely the least evil thing he could have done.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1164 on: Jun 21, 2014 06:16 am »

He stops being a mere soldier as soon as he starts to enjoy what he is doing. That's what we are arguing.
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1165 on: Jun 21, 2014 11:29 am »

He stops being a mere soldier as soon as he starts to enjoy what he is doing. That's what we are arguing.
But why does it matter? Go to a trial and the judge wouldn't ask the person who is accused of a crime wether he enjoyed it or not. They will look at other things like what his crime is, did they have a choise, Why did they do it.

Besides Sadism isn't a crime, it isn't even a mental illness, A lot of people have it in real life, Its like Lust, Its ok as long as you don't hurt anyone.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1166 on: Jun 21, 2014 11:35 am »

Why does it matter? It was you who was arguing that Yon Rha wasn't a sick person and was just serving his country. If you disregard what he felt, then there is a zero way for me to prove my point and zero way for you to prove your point as well.

Enjoying hurting a living human being is...normal? Uh, what?
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1167 on: Jun 21, 2014 01:13 pm »

Besides Sadism isn't a crime, it isn't even a mental illness, A lot of people have it in real life, Its like Lust, Its ok as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Being someone who enjoys hurting others is okay as long as you don't hurt anyone? Uh, what?
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1168 on: Jun 21, 2014 02:22 pm »

Besides Sadism isn't a crime, it isn't even a mental illness, A lot of people have it in real life, Its like Lust, Its ok as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Being someone who enjoys hurting others is okay as long as you don't hurt anyone? Uh, what?
Its called Sadism. Its normal to have as long as you control it and don't go around killing other people for teh lulz
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1169 on: Jun 21, 2014 02:46 pm »

Besides Sadism isn't a crime, it isn't even a mental illness, A lot of people have it in real life, Its like Lust, Its ok as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Being someone who enjoys hurting others is okay as long as you don't hurt anyone? Uh, what?
Its called Sadism. Its normal to have as long as you control it and don't go around killing other people for teh lulz

So being a pedophile is perfectly fine as long as you only rape children when your boss tells you to?

Also, being a sadist is not normal. Seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #1170 on: Jun 21, 2014 03:10 pm »

Yong Rha is a FIRE NATION dude who killed Katara's mother while smirking and was ready to inflict the same fate on a child Katara.
There shouldn't be a debate about his evilness. He's a sick human being, that's all.
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1171 on: Jun 21, 2014 03:21 pm »

Besides Sadism isn't a crime, it isn't even a mental illness, A lot of people have it in real life, Its like Lust, Its ok as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Being someone who enjoys hurting others is okay as long as you don't hurt anyone? Uh, what?
Its called Sadism. Its normal to have as long as you control it and don't go around killing other people for teh lulz

So being a pedophile is perfectly fine as long as you only rape children when your boss tells you to?

Also, being a sadist is not normal. Seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder
Did you just compare a murder in a war to raping a child?

And everyone has a disorder these days.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1172 on: Jun 21, 2014 03:26 pm »

Zyrax, at this point, what are you even arguing, what are you trying to say? Because I don't understand. Are you saying that Yon Rha was a completely normal Fire Nation soldier who only followed orders? If so, have you read anything I, HikaruIzumi, NeeNee and Solid Sun wrote?

Quote
And everyone has a disorder these days.

Is this supposed to be an excuse?
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1173 on: Jun 21, 2014 03:40 pm »

Zyrax, at this point, what are you even arguing, what are you trying to say? Because I don't understand. Are you saying that Yon Rha was a completely normal Fire Nation soldier who only followed orders? If so, have you read anything I, HikaruIzumi, NeeNee and Solid Sun wrote?

Quote
And everyone has a disorder these days.

Is this supposed to be an excuse?
I am just saying that what he is not the hitler everyone is making him out to be. He is just a person raised in a corrupt society And went to war. He is not a monster its Just Katara being biased
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1174 on: Jun 21, 2014 03:51 pm »

Okay, let's just ignore his amused face when he sentenced a civilian, a helpless woman to death. Katara isn't biased, it's you who is stubborn and are closing your eyes to the evidence. The man was a sick sadist, who not only took amusement in killing, but would easily throw someone else away to save his own pathetic life. He's so non-understanding, that he offers Katara to kill his own mother. He doesn't even understand why Katara is even there. He's a sad, pathetic nobody and a monster.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2014 03:52 pm by Furudo Erika » Logged
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