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Question: Rate this episode
10 - 286 (45.8%)
9 - 127 (20.3%)
8 - 101 (16.2%)
7 - 67 (10.7%)
6 - 15 (2.4%)
5 - 12 (1.9%)
4 - 5 (0.8%)
3 - 2 (0.3%)
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Author Topic: [316] The Southern Raiders  (Read 73289 times)
Mr Grieves
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« Reply #1200 on: Aug 13, 2014 04:29 pm »

Everything about the Yon Ra(?) confrontation makes me feel very sad but the flashbacks weren't too stirring I agree
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Ms.WW
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« Reply #1201 on: Aug 13, 2014 05:09 pm »

Maybe part of the reason why the flashbacks weren't as emotionally stirring for some is because we knew what the outcome was (that her mom died) and we have been sitting with that knowledge for a long time.

The confrontation was definitely emotionally stirring for me, but not in the same way as Iroh's scene. Which, thinking about it, seems a little odd since both Katara and Iroh were suffering from the loss of a loved one. I guess, it's because she was using it to get revenge that tainted it for me, but that's my own shortcoming I guess.
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My keeps: Korra & Tenzin's relationship, Tenzin's air wheel, Tenzin's locket of Guru Laghima, Tenzin's lecture on Monk Tang Xu's historic fast
SMBH
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« Reply #1202 on: Aug 13, 2014 07:17 pm »

I haven't watched this episode in a long time, but I think I may have teared up at one point or another. But then again I'm a big crybaby and lots of scenes in ATLA have made me misty-eyed.
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ATLA Keeps: Kuei's necklace, Pandalilies, Zhaodburns, Sokka's DoBS speech
TLOK Keeps: Sparkly bush, Aang's statue, Korrlok, Asami's racetrack
Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #1203 on: Aug 13, 2014 08:08 pm »

I really did try to be sad and cry for this episode but I just couldn't at all. Maybe I set my expectations way too high when M&B said this episode was guaranteed that you would cry and I did not find it touching at all. Next time when M&B say any future episodes of TLOK will make you cry or be a doozy, I shouldn't set my expectations way too high and just go with the flow which is what I've been doing so far... unless spoilers come along. Bad spoilers, bad!

The confrontation had Katara being angry at Yon Rha, then pitying him, and then basically ignoring Yon Rha altogether. I did not find that sad at all. I really wanted to feel something but there was nothing in the flashback and the whole confrontation to stir my emotions. Even when transcribing the entire episode, I didn't get sad at all.

Iroh's tale was more depressing. A child is not supposed to die before a parent. A parent is not supposed to bury a child, it's supposed to be the child who buries the parent when he/she reaches their time. Iroh went back to Ba Sing Se where Lu Ten was killed, imagine him walking down a street and having flashbacks of the battle and seeing where his son's corpse was. The fact he still celebrates his dead son's birthday seemingly without fail, that was more touching and tear inducing to me.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
Loopy
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« Reply #1204 on: Aug 13, 2014 10:05 pm »

For me, it was the extra context of Mako's death that made the Iroh scene have real emotional impact. The in-universe stuff never makes me cry.
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Lucky
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« Reply #1205 on: Nov 08, 2014 10:55 pm »

I guess I will be one of the few posters who didn't like the fact that Yon Ra got away with murdering Katara's mother. Even if Katara didn't want to kill Yon Ra, I wish Zuko would have done it for her so her hands could be clean and so Yon Ra wouldn't have gotten away with murdering another woman. I know people often use the common argument that Yon Ra's own sad life is his just reward, but that's not justice for his murder of Kya. That's due to his own personal life choices which lead him to become a loser. That's not a payment for his actions taken against the Water Tribe and many others.

I don't like the fact that this man virtually got away with murder and everyone is all like "lol, Katara just forgive him bb!"
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2014 10:57 pm by Lucky » Logged
Icy_Ashford
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« Reply #1206 on: Nov 08, 2014 11:26 pm »

I don't like the fact that this man virtually got away with murder and everyone is all like "lol, Katara just forgive him bb!"
But Katara didn't forgive him. She'll never forgive him. That was what she said in the episode.
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I keep Zuko's dagger & EK coat, Iroh's wisdom, Lu Ten's grave offerings | Mako's scarf, Naga, General Iroh's army outfit, Korra's new formal outfit
Lucky
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« Reply #1207 on: Nov 08, 2014 11:40 pm »

I meant more in line with what Sokka and Aang wanted her to do and how they wanted her to react. They basically just expected her to get over it and it was quite insulting. Hence why I paraphrased "lol just forgive him, bad stuff happens :shrugs:". It boggles the mind how Sokka can want to attack a disempowered Azula during the eclipse for hurting Suki but he can't understand why Katara needs to exact revenge for their fallen mother. Just horrible characterization there. They should understand why she couldn't give him that. Honestly, I think they were wrong in even asking that of her, especially since the man wasn't truly sorry about what he did in general. He killed her mother in cold blood and didn't think twice about it, so why exactly should she forgive this man? Why should she act as if it didn't happen and just get over it? It just never made sense to me. Sokka's own perception of the matter just makes no sense. How a son could not care that his mother died, and just forgive a person who killed their mother is beyond me.

Katara doesn't forgive him, and she shouldn't have to but more importantly, Yon Ra should pay for his crimes against Katara's mother. Point blank. It's not fair that no one else really understands or values that -- Aang and Sokka don't understand or truly sympathize with that idea. They just believe he should be set free and anything else would be vengeful. But it's not right that this man roams free, and gets another 40+ years to have the freedom to do whatever he likes. Zuko seems to get part of that as he lost his own mother but the episode itself really angers me because no one seems to value the fact that nothing is made right and Yon Ra gets away with murder.
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1208 on: Nov 08, 2014 11:50 pm »

There's little you can do about that though. After a war, you have to pardon each other soldiers. If you insist that every single one of them needs to be hold personally responsible, there will never be peace, because that would mean punishing half of the population.
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Lucky
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« Reply #1209 on: Nov 08, 2014 11:56 pm »

I'm pretty sure that Generals and other officials can be tried for war crimes. But regardless, the episode sent a really bad message to me in that regard. Basically it says that other people can get away with committing murder, and not even feel bad for it. There was no consequence for Yon Ra's actions, and you had all of the heroes basically saying that this was the way it's supposed to be. Does the man really care that Katara doesn't forgive him? What does Katara's forgiveness (or lack thereof) do to impact his life? Nothing. I doubt it even matters to him. He's still living. He still wins. He gets to go on and do whatever he wants for yet another day, while Kya screams in her home being burned alive in unimaginable pain. Katara has to deal with that, Katara has to live with that for the rest of her life. They want to say that is justice or that this is right? If so I just find that to be even more disgusting. I can only hope Zuko imprisoned him after the war or something. 
« Last Edit: Nov 09, 2014 12:02 am by Lucky » Logged
Avatar Epsilon
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« Reply #1210 on: Nov 09, 2014 02:00 am »

I guess I will be one of the few posters who didn't like the fact that Yon Ra got away with murdering Katara's mother. Even if Katara didn't want to kill Yon Ra, I wish Zuko would have done it for her so her hands could be clean and so Yon Ra wouldn't have gotten away with murdering another woman. I know people often use the common argument that Yon Ra's own sad life is his just reward, but that's not justice for his murder of Kya. That's due to his own personal life choices which lead him to become a loser. That's not a payment for his actions taken against the Water Tribe and many others.

I don't like the fact that this man virtually got away with murder and everyone is all like "lol, Katara just forgive him bb!"

I get where you are coming from and I sometimes feel the same way while watching the episode.

But he was currently miserable with his life. Honestly, I think Katara or Zuko killing him would have been a mercy killing more then anything. Now he just gets to be miserable longer.
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"Occasionally punching a guy with an electric glove does not make Asami a strong female character." (As said by me)
Antiyonder
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« Reply #1211 on: Nov 10, 2014 07:57 pm »

I guess I will be one of the few posters who didn't like the fact that Yon Ra got away with murdering Katara's mother. Even if Katara didn't want to kill Yon Ra, I wish Zuko would have done it for her so her hands could be clean and so Yon Ra wouldn't have gotten away with murdering another woman. I know people often use the common argument that Yon Ra's own sad life is his just reward, but that's not justice for his murder of Kya. That's due to his own personal life choices which lead him to become a loser. That's not a payment for his actions taken against the Water Tribe and many others.

I don't like the fact that this man virtually got away with murder and everyone is all like "lol, Katara just forgive him bb!"

I get where you are coming from and I sometimes feel the same way while watching the episode.

But he was currently miserable with his life. Honestly, I think Katara or Zuko killing him would have been a mercy killing more then anything. Now he just gets to be miserable longer.

To be honest, I don't know where I stand on the matter.  On the one hand, to live means that he has to put up with his mother for the rest of her days, but he clearly pleaded for his life as if he wasn't ready to die.

Guess I'm half and half on the outcome.

There's little you can do about that though. After a war, you have to pardon each other soldiers. If you insist that every single one of them needs to be hold personally responsible, there will never be peace, because that would mean punishing half of the population.

True, though wasn't Katara's sudden intent to seek revenge the result of going after the person directly at fault for her mother's death, rather than the entire fleet?
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1212 on: Nov 10, 2014 09:03 pm »

^ Yeah, for Katara it's personal. But for Aang and Zuko, insisting to punish this guy would also mean having to punish the rest of the FN soldiers/generals. They probably realise they won't be able to reach peace if they hold onto stuff like that.
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nightingale
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« Reply #1213 on: Nov 11, 2014 05:10 am »

I guess I will be one of the few posters who didn't like the fact that Yon Ra got away with murdering Katara's mother. Even if Katara didn't want to kill Yon Ra, I wish Zuko would have done it for her so her hands could be clean and so Yon Ra wouldn't have gotten away with murdering another woman. I know people often use the common argument that Yon Ra's own sad life is his just reward, but that's not justice for his murder of Kya. That's due to his own personal life choices which lead him to become a loser. That's not a payment for his actions taken against the Water Tribe and many others.

I don't like the fact that this man virtually got away with murder and everyone is all like "lol, Katara just forgive him bb!"

But they explained her why. To be honest telling her to go for revenge is not the healthiest way to deal with trauma. Also, Yon Ra didn't really get away with it. He is a sad, miserable, hollow man, and he most likely was until the end of his days. Living just for the sake of living, empty and shallow, with no heart and no love to transform him. His freedom is an illusion, and his life is a cell that follows him wherever he goes. His soul is dead already. That is the worse punishment he can have.
« Last Edit: Nov 11, 2014 05:12 am by nightingale » Logged

But four babies playing a game can make a playworld which licks your real world hollow... I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.

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Water1987
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« Reply #1214 on: Dec 29, 2015 08:16 pm »

When the Fire Nation raided the Southern Water Tribe, why didn't they kill the waterbenders they captured? They weren't forced to do manual labor like the earthbenders on the prison rig (episode 6), so what was the point of keeping the waterbenders alive?
« Last Edit: Dec 30, 2015 01:22 am by Water1987 » Logged
Loopy
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« Reply #1215 on: Dec 30, 2015 11:34 pm »

Probably because they didn't want to accidentally kill the Avatar, in case they had captured her/him.
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