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Author Topic: [316] The Southern Raiders  (Read 73288 times)
Zyrax
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« Reply #1175 on: Jun 21, 2014 04:05 pm »

Okay, let's just ignore his amused face when he sentenced a civilian, a helpless woman to death. Katara isn't biased, it's you who is stubborn and are closing your eyes to the evidence. The man was a sick sadist, who not only took amusement in killing, but would easily throw someone else away to save his own pathetic life. He's so non-understanding, that he offers Katara to kill his own mother. He doesn't even understand why Katara is even there. He's a sad, pathetic nobody and a monster.
No he is not, He did what any other Firenation soilder would done, infact what any Firenation person would have done. This isn't about what he did, This is about Katara Being a special Snowflake, She said he is worse than Jet despite the fact that Jet wanted to kill way more than Yon Rha and for no real reason other than his blind ideals, Yon Rha was helping his Nation win the war by killing the last waterbender, But she never considered the fact that Yon Rha was in a corrupt society, she never considered that there are some FN soilders who would have raped Kya or something, She just hated Him because it was HER mother, she is worse than Sasuke uchiha when he attacked Danzou, At the very least Sasuke admitted that Danzou was a true Shinobi, Katara never took it into her mind that Yon Rha was a hero in the eyes of the fire nation, she never considered that His upbringings, She just thought "He killed MY mother so he must be a monster". The truth is there is no such things as monsters, Only People with different views. People who paint Hitler as a monster forget that one day he was just a kid interested in art. This whole episode is about Katara being a special Snowflake who lives in her own fantasy world.
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1176 on: Jun 21, 2014 04:09 pm »

Besides Sadism isn't a crime, it isn't even a mental illness, A lot of people have it in real life, Its like Lust, Its ok as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Being someone who enjoys hurting others is okay as long as you don't hurt anyone? Uh, what?
Its called Sadism. Its normal to have as long as you control it and don't go around killing other people for teh lulz

So being a pedophile is perfectly fine as long as you only rape children when your boss tells you to?

Also, being a sadist is not normal. Seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder
Did you just compare a murder in a war to raping a child?

I'm saying that your 'He was just following orders!' excuse doesn't work, since you can use it to excuse literally anything.

And yes, being a sadist who doesn't hurt anyone and being a pedophile who doesn't rape anyone is the same thing in my eyes. Care to explain to me how they are different?


Zyrax, at this point, what are you even arguing, what are you trying to say? Because I don't understand. Are you saying that Yon Rha was a completely normal Fire Nation soldier who only followed orders? If so, have you read anything I, HikaruIzumi, NeeNee and Solid Sun wrote?

Quote
And everyone has a disorder these days.

Is this supposed to be an excuse?
I am just saying that what he is not the hitler everyone is making him out to be. He is just a person raised in a corrupt society And went to war. He is not a monster its Just Katara being biased

Yes, evil, biased Katata. How dare she blame someone for burning her mother to death in front of her eyes while laughing about it.

Seriously, dude, think about what you're saying. If one of your family members got murdered in front of you and the culprit was standing there laughing, would you really just shrug and go "Oh well, the guy is just doing his job, no reason to get upset about it"? I find that very hard to believe.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1177 on: Jun 21, 2014 04:27 pm »

Okay, let's just ignore his amused face when he sentenced a civilian, a helpless woman to death. Katara isn't biased, it's you who is stubborn and are closing your eyes to the evidence. The man was a sick sadist, who not only took amusement in killing, but would easily throw someone else away to save his own pathetic life. He's so non-understanding, that he offers Katara to kill his own mother. He doesn't even understand why Katara is even there. He's a sad, pathetic nobody and a monster.
No he is not, He did what any other Firenation soilder would done, infact what any Firenation person would have done. This isn't about what he did, This is about Katara Being a special Snowflake, She said he is worse than Jet despite the fact that Jet wanted to kill way more than Yon Rha and for no real reason other than his blind ideals, Yon Rha was helping his Nation win the war by killing the last waterbender, But she never considered the fact that Yon Rha was in a corrupt society, she never considered that there are some FN soilders who would have raped Kya or something, She just hated Him because it was HER mother, she is worse than Sasuke uchiha when he attacked Danzou, At the very least Sasuke admitted that Danzou was a true Shinobi, Katara never took it into her mind that Yon Rha was a hero in the eyes of the fire nation, she never considered that His upbringings, She just thought "He killed MY mother so he must be a monster". The truth is there is no such things as monsters, Only People with different views. People who paint Hitler as a monster forget that one day he was just a kid interested in art. This whole episode is about Katara being a special Snowflake who lives in her own fantasy world.

Lol, what a bunch of crap. I can't believe you just said that. Snowflake? Screwed up society? Did you even imagine what this child went through? Fantasy? What the hell man. You are justifying Yon Rha and turning your back on Katara? You have screwed up morales.

Yon Rha isn't your average Fire Nation soldier. He was carrying out orders, but the fact THAT SMIRKED AT THE THOUGHT OF MURDERING A DAMN WOMAN means that he is FU****ED up bastard. Not a freakin' soldier.

Did you even read ANYTHING I wrote? The way he tries to shift the blame on his goddamn mother? So that someone else can die while he lives his pathetic life? Sacrificing someone else for something you did is already screwed up enough!

What you are saying is pissing me off. And I need to cool down. I'm done with you. You can blame evil Katara for her evil actions all you want.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2014 04:31 pm by Furudo Erika » Logged
Zyrax
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« Reply #1178 on: Jun 21, 2014 04:30 pm »

To answer your second paragraph NeeNee
I was bullied in my youth A LOT, but I do not hate those who bullied me, I used to but then I realized that its not their fault, Its my f***** up society's Fault that they bullied me, My society is filled with idiotic Beta males who who act like they are Alpha, there was even a major fights during elections, And I realized how Had our society been less idiotic nobody would have bullied for not confirming to the false macho image. I stopped hating the bullies and started hating The social Norm that made people think I am different. To them I am some kind of a retard but to me they are nothing but puppets whom I sympathy with.

This is why I will never sympathy with Katara's actions. She failed to realize what I realized. I am above her because I am not delusional
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1179 on: Jun 21, 2014 04:58 pm »

To answer your second paragraph NeeNee
I was bullied in my youth A LOT, but I do not hate those who bullied me, I used to but then I realized that its not their fault, Its my f***** up society's Fault that they bullied me, My society is filled with idiotic Beta males who who act like they are Alpha, there was even a major fights during elections, And I realized how Had our society been less idiotic nobody would have bullied for not confirming to the false macho image. I stopped hating the bullies and started hating The social Norm that made people think I am different. To them I am some kind of a retard but to me they are nothing but puppets whom I sympathy with.

This is why I will never sympathy with Katara's actions. She failed to realize what I realized. I am above her because I am not delusional

Did you just compare high school bullying to burning a woman alive in front of her toddler child?

No, Zyrax. You are not above her. Looking down on others is not a virtue. That attitude only makes you arrogant, self-centered to the point that you can't even empathise with other people anymore. You are so full of yourself that you scoff at people for having their family murdered, and call them delusional for having goddamn human emotions.

You think you're a better human being than Katara? Think again. At least she always tried to understand her enemies, rather than painting herself as a superior being and everyone else as mindless fools.
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1180 on: Jun 21, 2014 05:01 pm »

Are those suppose to be insults?
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1181 on: Jun 21, 2014 05:03 pm »

It's how your words make you come across to me.
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1182 on: Jun 21, 2014 05:07 pm »

It's how your words make you come across to me.
So they are compliments?
Thank you NeeNee, I hope to repay you soon
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NeeNee
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« Reply #1183 on: Jun 21, 2014 05:13 pm »

I'd rather you take a moment to think about my words. My intent wasn't to make you mad, it's to make you understand why everyone in this thread seems upset with you.
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Zyrax
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« Reply #1184 on: Jun 21, 2014 05:19 pm »

I'd rather you take a moment to think about my words. My intent wasn't to make you mad, it's to make you understand why everyone in this thread seems upset with you.
What are you talking about?
How can I be mad?

>Implying That I got mad from this thread
I have been in far more intense debates on the internet. I am from the IWC for crying out loud.
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #1185 on: Jun 22, 2014 04:48 am »

As I said, there shouldn't be a debate about Yon.
He's a FN soldier, the bad guys from the show (with exceptions but still) who enjoyed the murder of Katara's mother and would've probably killed a child Katara to end the south's waterbending.
When it came back to bite him in the rear end, he begged to live and tried to redirect Katara's wrath toward his mother, making him a coward. He's a depraved human being, not a soldier who follow orders. Just a depraved human being.
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Featuring : Polaris, Zyrax HikaruIzumi, Blue Warpath, Prophet of Doom, Weegee the Airbender, TyLuko4Ever, Johan, Riptide, SunxFire and AtoMaki : D
Zyrax
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« Reply #1186 on: Jun 22, 2014 08:18 am »

As I said, there shouldn't be a debate about Yon.
He's a FN soldier, the bad guys from the show (with exceptions but still) who enjoyed the murder of Katara's mother and would've probably killed a child Katara to end the south's waterbending.
When it came back to bite him in the rear end, he begged to live and tried to redirect Katara's wrath toward his mother, making him a coward. He's a depraved human being, not a soldier who follow orders. Just a depraved human being.
Isn't being a Self righteous Prick the nature of mankind?
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Solid Sun
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« Reply #1187 on: Jun 22, 2014 08:40 am »

As I said, there shouldn't be a debate about Yon.
He's a FN soldier, the bad guys from the show (with exceptions but still) who enjoyed the murder of Katara's mother and would've probably killed a child Katara to end the south's waterbending.
When it came back to bite him in the rear end, he begged to live and tried to redirect Katara's wrath toward his mother, making him a coward. He's a depraved human being, not a soldier who follow orders. Just a depraved human being.
Isn't being a Self righteous Prick the nature of mankind?

You ignore all the great women and men who fought tooth and nails for freedom and equality but we're getting to close to real life here.
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Loopy
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« Reply #1188 on: Jun 23, 2014 03:53 pm »

By that logic Israeli people are evil because they  celebrate the death's of many Palestine/Syrian/Lebnan People

I can sign on with that logic. (Naturally, I'm not saying that all Israeli people are evil, just the ones who act this way.) It's an awful reality that killing happens, and people can be forced to make choices where killing is the least wrong thing to do.

However, anyone who enjoys it is a monster, plain and simple. Whether they're sick like that because they were raised that way, or sick like that because of a neurological flaw, they're sick, sick in a way we call Evil.

"Everyone dies. It is the final and only ever lasting justice. Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides to kill a village, this is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist. There is no greater good than justice; and only if law serves justice is it a good law. It is said correctly that law exists not for the just but for the unjust, for the just carry the law in their hearts, and do not need to call it from afar."
There is no such thing as good and evil, just read this:

Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Of course is such a thing as good and evil. We have words for them, don't we?

Evil is cruelty. Evil is joy at misfortune. Evil is rudeness, and selfishness, and greed. Evil is when you're crabby to your friends. Evil is when you don't care about the suffering of others. Evil is taking pleasure in pain and death and loss.

Pirates and do good, and they can do evil. Marines can do good, and can do evil.

Good and evil are in all of us.

And perspective has nothing to do with it. Human beings have an instinctual aversion to hurting each other. That's why we feel remorse after hurting someone in the heat of the moment. We're social creatures, who perform best when we're part of a group, a tribe, a society. Evil actions- from taking pleasure in murder to simply being an entitled jerk- break down those social bonds and separate us from each other.

That's why the whole of human history has been about coming together and becoming nicer to each other. We're moving from being self-centered animals to being something better.

Something good.


Isn't being a Self righteous Prick the nature of mankind?

Just the opposite. That's Evil.
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Spiritwhisperer
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« Reply #1189 on: Aug 04, 2014 08:51 pm »

I just rewatched this episode.

Christ, what an emotional gut-punch.
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Furudo Erika
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« Reply #1190 on: Aug 04, 2014 11:58 pm »

I just rewatched this episode.

Christ, what an emotional gut-punch.

I know... It's one of my favorite episodes of all time.
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Spiritwhisperer
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« Reply #1191 on: Aug 12, 2014 12:34 pm »

Even after having seen it a few times already, it still doesn't fail to make me cry. Zuckerman's fairly understated piano-note score really enhances it.
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« Reply #1192 on: Aug 12, 2014 04:05 pm »

What I really like about this episode is that even though you know Katara won't kill Yan Rha, the episode is so well scored, acted, and the atmosphere is so good during the actual confrontation that for a brief moment I actually thought she might really kill him.

I mean, it's Nick show so you knew it would never really happen but it was done so well that even if it was just during a brief moment, I thought it would be possible that's she'd follow through with it.

I think that's impressive.
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« Reply #1193 on: Aug 12, 2014 08:28 pm »

Even after having seen it a few times already, it still doesn't fail to make me cry. Zuckerman's fairly understated piano-note score really enhances it.
I've never cried at all watching this episode. M&B promised it would be a tearjerker at one of the comic cons years ago and when I watched it, it wasn't tear inducing for me like Iroh's story in Tales of Ba Sing Se.
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« Reply #1194 on: Aug 12, 2014 09:48 pm »

it wasn't tear inducing for me like Iroh's story in Tales of Ba Sing Se.

And ironically this was a moment that everyone seemed to tear up at while I just kinda shrugged.
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« Reply #1195 on: Aug 13, 2014 07:59 am »

it wasn't tear inducing for me like Iroh's story in Tales of Ba Sing Se.

And ironically this was a moment that everyone seemed to tear up at while I just kinda shrugged.

Same.

I mean, I thought 'aw, poor Iroh', but it did nothing to get me emotional.

Southern Raiders did. I'm a total softie when it comes to the right audio-visual mix. Certain scenes makes me sad, and the accompanying music drives me over the tear-barrier.
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« Reply #1196 on: Aug 13, 2014 08:25 am »

I re-watched this episode multiple times and I also personally did the transcript for this episode with plenty of pausing and rewinding with the raid on the SWT. I really never felt my emotions get stirred at all.

It was flashback, action, flashback ends. Skip to another person's flashback, action, ooo some smoke, a little more story, flashback end. Yes, Katara's flashback! It's basically the same thing with more info on what went on in the igloo. Then anti climatic fade to white when she and Hakoda runs back to the house.

I dunno, they should have shown it as one long flashback instead of multiple ones of the same thing with little more stuff added at each time.

It was Iroh's cracking voice in the singing of Leaves from the Vine that did me in along with the sad music in the background. Katara's voice didn't feel as "broken" as Iroh's, in my opinion. She was quiet one moment, then raging at Yon Rha the next, and finally acceptance of Zuko. I guessed I wanted to hear her be sad like how she was talking to her father in The Awakening episode. I didn't feel or hear any in this episode.
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« Reply #1197 on: Aug 13, 2014 08:35 am »

'Last time I admit to crying on the internet Cheesy
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« Reply #1198 on: Aug 13, 2014 03:21 pm »

@Icy: I get what you are saying about the flashback stuff. I didn't really get that many feels during those either. It was Katara's confrontation with Yon Rah that gave me feels. Maybe it's because she's one of my favorite characters and I can relate to her quite a bit but I really felt how hard that was for her. I don't think her voice needed to be broken during the scene either. It sounded broken in The Awakening because she was hurting. She was upset at her father abandoning her and Aang suddenly abandoning them all as well pushed her over the edge. In Sourther Raiders though Katara was feeling a heavy amount of rage. Sure, she was hurting in this episode as well but a lot of this episode was her driven by her anger. That wasn't that case in The Awakening.

Compared to Iroh's moment in "Tales" I just didn't feel the investment in that part of his story of losing Lu Ten that I felt with Katara losing her mom.
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« Reply #1199 on: Aug 13, 2014 03:49 pm »

@Icy: I get what you are saying about the flashback stuff. I didn't really get that many feels during those either. It was Katara's confrontation with Yon Rah that gave me feels.

That. Also because Yon Rah had become so pathetic. In a sense, Yon Rah is the one with the "broken voice" in that scene. If he'd still been a bloodthirsty armoured giant, I wouldn't have been as emotionally invested as I was.

Also, once again, the score. The music during the flashback doesn't do anything for me, but the piano notes tickle my tearducts.
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"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
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